Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:

I didn't. I posted once. You and a couple others have questioned me. You are not obliged to I was simply stating why I never divulge mine and don't like being asked.

If you don't like being asked then why bother coming on to a thread that asks that question?

Erlinda wrote:

If you don't like being asked then why bother coming on to a thread that asks that question?

If you don't like Eliza's debates why do you keep asking her questions?

JadeDRed wrote:
If you don't like Eliza's debates why do you keep asking her questions?

She's not debating with me... She is answering questions.

Erlinda wrote:

She's not debating with me... She is answering questions.

That's the nature of debate. She made a statement. People question her statement. She responds. Had no one questioned it her statement would not have been a debate.

JadeDRed wrote:
That's the nature of debate. She made a statement. People question her statement. She responds. Had no one questioned it her statement would not have been a debate.

People are going to ask why she would come to a thread that she doesn't like the question to and bitch about why she doesn't like the question..

It's weird. When I read the titles to threads and I don't like them I don't go in them and bitch about why I don't like it.... Just a waste of time and will only annoy people... Which she did..

I wouldn't think anything of it but she does it so bloody much it's annoying, and I'm someone that doesn't get annoyed so easily by complete random people. Just fucking odd

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
So what ethnicity am I?
Does it matter to my modelling and can you tell?

Whether you can or not is actually irrelevant it doesn't affect my modelling. Because modelling is not necessarily to do with beauty and beauty not necessarily to do with ethnicity.

Don't get me wrong here I don't mind others volunteering I don't have an issue with that or being asked in this context. Just saying why I dont like being asked generally.

I still find them quite related.

However, I took more issue with you saying that asking was "offensive," while here you are saying it's not. I assume we have a misunderstanding here, where I thought you were calling the OP offensive when truly you meant that people coming and asking a sort of "What are you, anyway?" is. Am I on the right track?

Also, while you say beauty and modeling aren't always related, that can be true. But most often, LOOKS are. Sometimes it's what makes a person "beautiful" by societal standards, or weird, or even ugly that helps them in modeling, but looks are certainly an important factor.

K I C K H A M wrote:
I still find them quite related.

However, I took more issue with you saying that asking was "offensive," while here you are saying it's not. I assume we have a misunderstanding here, where I thought you were calling the OP offensive when truly you meant that people coming and asking a sort of "What are you, anyway?" is. Am I on the right track?

Yes. I raised it when I joined here, I raise it every time I am asked on a form. I think some of the most persecuted ethnic groups one cant always tell by appearance. So hence Jews were able to hide as SS officers. Not just one but several. I can produce cites if required but don't want to hijack. But bureaucratic records of ethnicity I find worrying.  I wasn't criticising the op for asking it. I did however find it interesting -  rather than bad - it should arise in a model area and you yourself stated that ethnicity could affect appearance. Self evident of course; but my point is that one can't always tell. No value judgement or crit implied; simply interesting.

For example I heard someone say yesterday Czech girls are all so beautiful with model looks and he could tell. In fact the guy had misheard and the girls were Chechen. When they corrected him he said 'oh' and walked off.

I find the subject interesting but was not attacking the op and simply stating we should maybe think about judging people on ethnic appearance. I think as a geographer I can often tell the most obscure minorities. One member here was amazed I could tell someone was Hmong from a photo. BUT I have been wrong often enough to know one should try in general to avoid making guesses - though yes it can be fun at request. And the man yesterday who judged Chechens as Czechs made a howler for example.

HO Photo wrote:
Is "a lovely golden brown" an ethnicity? If so, that's mine.

Only if you have spots or stripes.

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
Yes. I raised it when I joined here, I raise it every time I am asked on a form. I think some of the most persecuted ethnic groups one cant always tell by appearance. So hence Jews were able to hide as SS officers. But bureaucratic records of ethnicity I find worrying.  I wasn't criticising the op for asking it. I did however find it interesting -  rather than bad - it should arise in a model area and you yourself stated that ethnicity could affect appearance. Self evident of course; but my poimy is that one can't always tell. No value judgement or crit implied; simply interesting.

For example I heard someone say yesterday Czech girls are all so beautiful with model looks and he could tell. In fact the guy had misheard and the girls were Chechen. When they corrected him he said 'oh' and walked off.

I find the subject interesting but was not attacking the op and simply stating we should maybe think about judging people on ethnic appearance.

Just check the box "Prude" then. That sums it all up. all done.

Erlinda wrote:

People are going to ask why she would come to a thread that she doesn't like the question to and bitch about why she doesn't like the question..

It's weird. When I read the titles to threads and I don't like them I don't go in them and bitch about why I don't like it.... Just a waste of time and will only annoy people... Which she did..

I wouldn't think anything of it but she does it so bloody much it's annoying, and I'm someone that doesn't get annoyed so easily by complete random people. Just fucking odd

I didn't bitch about anyone. You however have bitched about me.

JadeDRed wrote:
If looks and ethnicity are so closely related, why do we need this thread? I mean you can all see me right?

This.

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:

Yes. I raised it when I joined here, I raise it every time I am asked on a form. I think some of the most persecuted ethnic groups one cant always tell by appearance. So hence Jews were able to hide as SS officers. Not just one but several. I can produce cites if required but don't want to hijack. But bureaucratic records of ethnicity I find worrying.  I wasn't criticising the op for asking it. I did however find it interesting -  rather than bad - it should arise in a model area and you yourself stated that ethnicity could affect appearance. Self evident of course; but my poimy is that one can't always tell. No value judgement or crit implied; simply interesting.

For example I heard someone say yesterday Czech girls are all so beautiful with model looks and he could tell. In fact the guy had misheard and the girls were Chechen. When they corrected him he said 'oh' and walked off.

I find the subject interesting but was not attacking the op and simply stating we should maybe think about judging people on ethnic appearance. I think as a geographer I can often tell the most obscure minorities. One member here was amazed I could tell someone was Hmong from a photo. BUT I have been wrong often enough to know one should try in general to avoid making guesses - though yes it can be fun at request. And the man yesterday who judged Chechens as Czechs made a howler for example.

I don't disagree with anything you've said in this statement.

As I said, the woman I met with my same "background" had zero similarities to me, yet I could still see where those played into her face.

I'm also fascinated with physical stats, not for good or bad, just in general. Many time the background can influence eye and face shape, lip and mouth size, etc. I understand the sentiments behind why this could be negative, but I think that's a usage that isn't always inherent in the question.
On that note, I also love seeing pictures of people's parents and looking at what features were inherited and which were mixed, and also body dimensions like how many heads tall a person is and how it makes them appear taller/ shorter than they are.

JadeDRed wrote:
If looks and ethnicity are so closely related, why do we need this thread? I mean you can all see me right?

Because "related" does not mean that.

Similar face structures can come from all sorts of different backgrounds, and people still have their individual faces even if they come form the same background. Also, multiple people with the same background can take on different features and look nothing alike.

Nothing wrong with not wanting to participate, but the backlash at the question when you're in a looks-based field is a bit odd.

K I C K H A M wrote:
I'm also fascinated with physical stats, not for good or bad, just in general. Many time the background can influence eye and face shape, lip and mouth size, etc. I understand the sentiments behind why this could be negative, but I think that's a usage that isn't always inherent in the question.

No one is saying it necessarily is, but it's not a massive stretch to see why someone from a persecuted ethnicity could find the idea of drawing judgements from ethnicity discomforting.

Look at the recent news about Roma children being taken away from their families because they didn't look "right".

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:

I didn't bitch about anyone. You however have bitched about me.

Read it again... I never said you bitch about anyone.. I said you bitch about things. Big difference

K I C K H A M wrote:
I don't disagree with anything you've said in this statement.

As I said, the woman I met with my same "background" had zero similarities to me, yet I could still see where those played into her face.

I'm also fascinated with physical stats, not for good or bad, just in general. Many time the background can influence eye and face shape, lip and mouth size, etc. I understand the sentiments behind why this could be negative, but I think that's a usage that isn't always inherent in the question.
On that note, I also love seeing pictures of people's parents and looking at what features were inherited and which were mixed, and also body dimensions like how many heads tall a person is and how it makes them appear taller/ shorter than they are.

Yes of course that can be, but not always, evident. Precisely because this is in a model thread I thought it worth raising; without any crit of the op; as did you.

It is also valid to express why one does not wish to divulge ethnicity without any implied criticism of those who do.

Caitlin and Erlinda however have made some nasty personal attacks against me calling me a prude and saying I am bitching and odd. I am innocent of both those charges and I would suggest they are the ones derailing the thread as those have nothing to do with ethnicity. I shall not enter further discussion with them.

JadeDRed wrote:
If looks and ethnicity are so closely related, why do we need this thread? I mean you can all see me right?

Because sometimes one ethnicity over powers the others or sometimes some ethnicities have the same features as each other. Thats why people ask... I think it's cool to learn peoples background.

Many people think I'm Greek, Italian or Spanish but I'm neither of those....

Gabby57 wrote:
Best guess from family names and verbal history: Irish, Scotch, English, Choctaw, Cherokee and most certainly Hedonist.

LOL I caught the Hedonist. I am part hedonist. Didn't know it was ethnic though. LOL

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:

Stay curious.
It matters not to me what ethnicity anyone is. I am curious about and respectful of only their culture. There is no rational need whatever unless one is a DNA scientist or wonder about their own roots, to be curious about ethnicity. Maybe that is why despite the multitude of ethnic backgrounds, and curiosity about your family histories, you are as Americans so very, very different to us in the UK. We are multi cultural ; rather than multi ethnic sharing the same culture.

Spoken like someone who has always had the luxury of knowing where they came from...

Mel

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:

I am chilled thankyou. I become chilled when I deal with stuff that winds me up
Every form in the UK asks this question and I find it offensive. I don't like being put in boxes.

Then why does your flag look like a giant fucking present?   

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
I am one of those people who don't approve of ethnicity queries.
It exists only for bad reasons: either to gather data that could be used against people or for pathetic politically motivated bureaucracies to make out they are giving equality of opportunity.

Whatever I achieve in life I want it to be not because of or in spite of my ethnicity or sexuality.
What is more important is cultural prejudice. America can elect a black president and the UK can elect a female PM. Obama is not working class from the Bronx or Moslem; Thatcher wasn't born on a run down council estate and she didn't wear thigh boots and fishnets. Ethnicity doesn't matter and can be a mask for lack of social mobility and prejudice against classes and cultures.

I am from a heavily persecuted minority originally. I haven't a chip on my shoulder about it and I was born to normal working class parents. But I did have to struggle a little against the middle class cultural idea of deferred gratification that schools take for granted. I know also the hate against the ethnic group to which I belong and I don't want any left wingers down the line claiming they have engineered social mobility because I was given some kind of bullshit positive discrimination. Discrimination is as likely to be cultural or class based or the school you went to and I think it better not to divulge any of it to the bureaucratic leeches of those in power.

I depise the online application process, asking you what you're "ethnicity" is, they have to know because....

A) It helps them do their job better.

no wait,

B) It helps you do you're job better.

Both statements are bull****.

You only have to looked at history, pretty much every race has felt the wraft of this alarming pre-occupation with colour.