SoCal Portraits wrote:
TF is just that, a trade.  If I do something for you, what are you going to do for me?

Its hard to take photos of a model, without a model!
You get a model who provides her services in exchange for yours as a photographer.

BlueMoonPics wrote:
Lately, I'm getting the feeling I'm being used.

Do you feel like an ATM?

For me TF = trade for. We each get something we want.

End of the Road Studio wrote:

Do you feel like an ATM?

For me TF = trade for. We each get something we want.

What did you give that bell, a good ringin'?

BlueMoonPics wrote:
Lately, I'm getting the feeling I'm being used.

You must like it, or you wouldn't keep letting it happen. 

End of the Road Studio wrote:
Do you feel like an ATM?

For me TF = trade for. We each get something we want.

I don't pay.

MelissaAnn  wrote:
You must like it, or you wouldn't keep letting it happen. 

Lots of work.  No paying work comes from it.
No fun anymore...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1R9Mtt7z8M

BlueMoonPics wrote:
Lately, I'm getting the feeling I'm being used.

You are. I'm using several of your images in my list hehe

dd photography wrote:
.
it's really not that complicated.

Everything on MM is complicated.

Marin Photography NYC wrote:

You don't understand testing either.

It's the same thing but Testing is just for portfolio building. Agencies use this term most often as opposed to trade.

"Testing" is just a word "professionals" in "the industry" use instead of "TF" so that "ordinary people" think they are doing something very clever.

It's exactly the same as when a doctor says to you "I'm going to do a proctoscopic examination of your prostate gland". What he really means is "I'm going to stick my finger into your bum and wiggle it about to see if I can feel a lump".

Because he uses the "professional" term for what he's going to do, he can charge you more money for the same service you could get from an "amateur".

Michelle Genevieve wrote:

I think the OP does understand testing. The issue is about trade.

If I'm testing then I assume the only thing I'm getting out of this is the OPPORTUNITY to see if I might be right for a future gig. That's all. No prints or files, no money, nothing except "Have a nice day, we'll call you if we want you." Oh, and the experience of having tested. Period, end of transaction.

TF is collaborative and not a one-way deal. If the person posting a casting is asking for TF she needs to bring something to the table. If not, she's looking for a handout.

I happen to agree with you.

I test, quite frequently. When I first started I made the mistake of hiring a model for a project without ever having worked with her. Her look was perfect and exactly what I wanted. However, when I brought her in, after about an hour of me trying to work a snarl from her and getting the "it smells bad in here" face, I gave up, paid her what we agreed upon and had to shell out even more money for another model.

My opinion, and this is strictly from experience and my own personal stance on the matter, is that a test--as you put it--is an audition. I want a very specific facial expression/pose that someone may not have in their port, but I like their style/look, and believe them to have potential, but I don't want to waste my money. They show up with the prospect of being hired on for a gig. I'm nice, so if they ask for the pictures I'll give it to them but it's typically a five/ten minute deal where I ask them to emote/pose with what I'm looking for and that's it but they understand that they are in no way entitled to them. Do actors get the reels from a script reading, or do they get a credit on IMDB if they come in for an audition but don't get the part? No.

Trade for... and test shoots are two completely different things. I believe that's why both options are available under the Casting section, instead of just the one.

Hugh Alison wrote:

"Testing" is just a word "professionals" in "the industry" use instead of "TF" so that "ordinary people" think they are doing something very clever.

Testing was there before the internet was invented.
I wonder how all those incredibly famous photographers became so incredibly famous ?

' Hi Anna Wintour I've no folio but I'd like to get published in Vogue '.

Hugh Alison wrote:
"Testing" is just a word "professionals" in "the industry" use instead of "TF" so that "ordinary people" think they are doing something very clever.

It's exactly the same as when a doctor says to you "I'm going to do a proctoscopic examination of your prostate gland". What he really means is "I'm going to stick my finger into your bum and wiggle it about to see if I can feel a lump".

Because he uses the "professional" term for what he's going to do, he can charge you more money for the same service you could get from an "amateur".

Nope, sorry. Testing may have a variety of applications, however the common denominator is that there is always 'testing' of one/some type(s) involved. Tee Eff is really only an internet term, used to mean free modelling/photography/makeup artistry/etc. “Clever” would be asking your national association of professional photographers, or even see what response you get from your local agency for models when you ask them for one of their girls so you can TFPee them. Hah! You might get yourself arrested!!!

Please pardon any typographical errors, I've composed this post on my Windows-based Tablet

IMHO alone;

Ðanny
DBImagery Toronto (Website)
DBIphotography Toronto (Blog On Site)
   
“The vilest deeds – like poison weeds – bloom well in prison air; it is only what is good in man that wastes & withers there.”
~Oscar Wilde

Michelle Genevieve wrote:
Those of you who are telling me that I don't understand may be right, but I think I'm giving an easy out to people who advertise a test rather than those who advertise TF.

Regardless of whether TF is strictly an MM term or not, the "F" is what matters. It's Time For . . .  something. And that something has to be delivered or it's a one-way deal, and therefore not TF Anything.

If I say that I'm willing to test and receive nothing in return (except the hope that I might actually be testing for a possibility of future employment) then anyone who actually delivers anything to me as a result of the test is exceeding my expectations. Yay!

And FWIW, we have here on MM a category for Unpaid Test. No biggie! Just click the dang little circle and we're all on the same page. But don't call it TF when it's only begging for a handout.

If you wanna test me, just say so and we'll shoot. If you wanna play silly word games then good luck.

And contrary to what the OP said, I mostly see this one-way TF racket from models who need images and don't want to actually invest money with a photographer whose work will add something to their portfolios.

The thing that's important to remember is, when working with agencies, you have to speak their language. That means saying "test" instead of "TF", otherwise you just end up sounding silly.

Here on MM, you can call it whatever you like, as long as all parties are clear about what they are getting.

Eyesso wrote:
Well....there are some photographers out there who have their sh!t together, like "TEAMS" under their wing....hair, make up, studio access, understudies.....I am NOT one of those, so I just safely assume they are looking for somebody else. 

I notice a pattern though....

Photographers often make the mistake of spending lots of money on better gear, more megapixels, an array of fancy lenses, etc. in hopes of taking better pictures. 

Models similarly make the mistake of requesting hair, make up, stylists, etc. in hopes of somehow magnifying their hidden beauty. 

But....less is more.   Zero preparation and a pinhole camera will do just fine. 

Less is not always more.

It's not a mistake to use a makeup artist, hair stylist or wardrobe stylist, etc. There are reasons to use them, that don't involve models wanting to magnify hidden beauty, lol. You sound a bit cynical?

Mary wrote:
TFP threads .... MAKE EM STOP!  I know, I can just "move on" but I can't   I'm weak... these threads make me want to just start slapping complete strangers upside the head.

I understand the frustration of the OP....Been there, my issue is that these threads are just a repeat  over and over again....   Testing (or trade for poop) doesn't generally turn out well for everyone but once in a while it does and we keep doing it over and over for the slight chance that we may get something great out of it...just one shot...just one connection.  it's a necessary evil when starting your career....it teaches you a lot about business and people.  It's like dating....You have to sit through a lot of bad conversations and deal with a lot of idiots before you finally make a match but you just keep doing it because that one great match makes all the duds worth it

I feel lucky that I'm testing with the right people then. Not all tests are fruitful, but that's my fault for going forward with the test.

Some tests build relationships with agencies, and have resulted in paid work for me. Other tests help get exposure, which has also gotten me some jobs.

I don't mind testing during my downtime. I'm just more selective now.

Natalia_Taffarel wrote:
You don't understand testing either.

TF is an Internet terminology for testing. Same thing.
People make up their own rules, but it's basically always a collaboration between creatives to get experience and images for portfolio use.

As I understand it testing is just for portfolio. It's generally the model not much styling, just performing essentially. No use for anything else.

Tf is not something I've heard outside MM.
And it annoys me, because people think its the norm in the industry and nobody's ever heard of it in the UK anywhere I've worked. So when one gets this cocky "I only work with models tf," crap from amateur photographers it's irritating.

That isn't to say that collaborations are not done for wide variety of reasons. It goes without saying sometimes you do things for creative collaboration without talking about money . You do editorial for example for whatevers going. Expenses, free, a bit of wardrobe. Essentially you are doing it for exposure all of the team. Not much money usually. So nobody mentions tf. And usually theres a few quid expenses. So that's not strictly trade'.

Other times you may say do some stock images for a photographer, which have commercial use, on exchange for images the model wants to shoot for commercial promotion. So thats trade I guess, so what the op is likely getting at. It's not testing.

Another may be shooting one another's purely creative visions. So the model does the pin up shoot that she already has dozens of, if photographer shoots her vintage wedding dress, going splits on Mua etc or maybe getting one that needs creative images for their port. That isn't testing as in agency model gets sent to agency photographer for port shots, or in fashion house I get sent down from upstairs to test for new photographer and never even see the pics. Don't even ask. I'm paid. She's paid. It's,still testing. No Mua, just a loose fitting corset etc. I guess just to see if I'm any good for a catalogue shoot, or to let the photographer test new equipment etc.

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
As I understand it testing is just for portfolio. It's generally the model not much styling, just performing essentially. No use for anything else.

Had a great use for Bailey when he shot Jean Shrimpton (all for fun and a passion for image creating images) and many more models, celbs ect .... some were exhibited at the National Portrait Gallery 'Bailey's Stardust'.

No use for anything else if that were the case then there would no point in taking pictures.

WIP wrote:
Had a great use for Bailey when he shot Jean Shrimpton (all for fun and a passion for image creating images) and many more models, celbs ect .... some were exhibited at the National Portrait Gallery 'Bailey's Stardust'.

No use for anything else if that were the case then there would no point in taking pictures.

Not for COMMERCIAL use. No model release signed etc. A,retrospective of work I imagine has relevant permissions either at the time ie model release or after. I don't know but certainly I haven't signed model release for testing. So for eg if my mug us,suddenly used on an std campaign poster I can clobber the photographer in court. But sure if he had an exhibition about his work or in a serious book about his work that would be different. Maybe. How would you feel if your test shoot pics were used on a book about the model without permissions? Ok you own copyright. But with a model, no release means we have,some comeback and testing doesn't usually have one. Trade though that may. Not that I've done much of either, so am not best qualified to speak about it. As I said it's just how I was given to understand it.

I like his PNG ones btw.

WIP wrote:
'Bailey's Stardust' is also in print book format.
Not planed for publishing just a collection of pic's of models and celebs which eventually found it self in a exhibition and book.

Not sold for a campaign then. Or he isn't selling a million posters of KM.