Raoul Isidro Images wrote:
Who dictates the new designs? Consumers or manufacturers?

A corporation's accountants... Sales numbers are key here... it's always been that way...

Good Egg Productions wrote:
...

Here's one problem with using an EVF with strobes. I want to shoot at f/8 and 1/200 at ISO 200. With an EVF, I can't see what I'm shooting because at those settings, the EVF is black.  Luckily, my mirrorless also has an OVF (Fuji X100S) so I can see.

...

Not a problem with Sony, Panasonic or Olympus - they all offer settings to give a bright finder with flash. On my current Panasonics it kicks in when I slide a flash or trigger (any brand) into the hot shoe. On some models it is a menu choice or oddly named, but it's there on all current cameras from these three.

Are you sure Fuji does not have the option?

Silver Mirage wrote:

Not a problem with Sony, Panasonic or Olympus - they all offer settings to give a bright finder with flash. On my current Panasonics it kicks in when I slide a flash or trigger (any brand) into the hot shoe. On some models it is a menu choice or oddly named, but it's there on all current cameras from these three.

Are you sure Fuji does not have the option?

I don't, but I don't need that function with the OVF/EVF hybrid system.
I wasn't aware that other cameras have that function. That's clever!

Michael Alestra wrote:
i dont the point, those two cameras aren't equal. sure they have the same sensor size but that's it.

In your opinion, what are the benefits of a full frame conventional DSLR over a full frame mirrorless system?

Silver Mirage wrote:

Not a problem with Sony, Panasonic or Olympus - they all offer settings to give a bright finder with flash.

Correct. On Sony cameras with EVF, there's an option in the menu to turn the live view setting to OFF. Then the EVF functions as if it were an OVF using the ambient light in the studio.

Good Egg Productions wrote:

In your opinion, what are the benefits of a full frame conventional DSLR over a full frame mirrorless system?

if you are comparing someone who shoots with a 1dx....

far superior autofocus.

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
If you mean this.

Nikon and Canon...Failed to grasp what Sony already knew. Full Frame Mirrorless is IT!

If you mean this.

Nikon and Canon...Now are playing Catch Up.

You would be Correct.

This....I went Fuji, and am happy.

Good Egg Productions wrote:
I use both a full frame conventional DSLR and a mirrorless ASP-C sized sensor camera.

They both have a place in my work flow.

They both offer me certain benefits.


Here's one problem with using an EVF with strobes. I want to shoot at f/8 and 1/200 at ISO 200. With an EVF, I can't see what I'm shooting because at those settings, the EVF is black.  Luckily, my mirrorless also has an OVF (Fuji X100S) so I can see.

Mirrorless is coming. Like it or not. Smaller cameras, faster electronic shutters, silent operation.  Will it replace pentaprisms and mirrors? Maybe. But only as much as tablets have replaced desktop computers. Which they aren't even close to doing yet.

I'm reasonably sure mirror less cameras will take over most of the market in the next five years. I suspect we'll see most manufacturers offering a 'student level' DSLR, pro bodies, and maybe a model in between. Even though the traditional SLR design offers some things mirrorless can't match for physics reasons, most users don't really need those things. I think in the next few years we'll see that unless you shoot sports or wildlife, the only functional differences will be size and battery life.

Raoul Isidro Images wrote:
Both Full Frame cameras.
The one on the left is Mirrorless


.

Silver Mirage wrote:

Not a problem with Sony, Panasonic or Olympus - they all offer settings to give a bright finder with flash. On my current Panasonics it kicks in when I slide a flash or trigger (any brand) into the hot shoe. On some models it is a menu choice or oddly named, but it's there on all current cameras from these three.

Are you sure Fuji does not have the option?

Yes Fuji do have that function...it's basically a live View boost.

Just go to your screen setup function and change the "Preview Exposure in Manual Mode" to ON.

Manuals are your friends...

r T p wrote:

I think this comparison would look different with standard 24-70mm 2.8 or 70-200mm 2.8 lens.
There would not be too much difference and from handling point of view DSLR would look better.

ontherocks wrote:
i love my fuji x-pro1 but wouldn't use it as my primary camera at a wedding. for that i still use my trusty 5D MK II and wish i had a MK III (or 6D) or nikon equiv.

even if they made a fuji that was fast (or maybe they have by now) that small body still wouldn't balance well with a flash.

Why not?

I use that setup all the time...XT-1 W/FL-42 flash and a variety of lenses. Balances fine at a lower weight and fantastic image quality. Matter of fact I've used the flash on an X100s, an X-M1 and A1.

Michael Alestra wrote:

if you are comparing someone who shoots with a 1dx....

far superior autofocus.

Is it impossible to think that they can't improve the autofocus function of a mirrorless system to compete with the best of the DSLR cameras?  If you say so.

To me, the ONLY benefit of the DSLR over mirrorless is the size.  A larger camera has ergonomics and bulk to it that can be useful in the field.  From my experience, my Fuji focuses just as fast and nearly as accurately as my Nikon D800.  Sure, it struggles in lower light, but I assume that's because it wasn't specifically designed to focus well in lower light.

I'd bet the next round of mirrorless will only improve upon things.

But let's be honest with each other.  Where can DSLRs go from here?  How much "better" can they get?  They're already producing decent images at ISO sensitivities that are ridiculous, several stops better than any film ever produced and far cleaner than any high speed film.  They're already producing images with pixel counts large enough for billboards.  They already shoot up to 15 frames per second.  What more can they do?  What more SHOULD they do?

Mirrorless will fill a segment that has a demand.  There will always be certain people who will not be interested, but then there are still people who only shoot film and develop and print their own.

Leighthenubian wrote:

Why not?

I use that setup all the time...XT-1 W/FL-42 flash and a variety of lenses. Balances fine at a lower weight and fantastic image quality. Matter of fact I've used the flash on an X100s, an X-M1 and A1.

So have I.  It feels a little clunky and pretty top-heavy, but it just changes how I use my other hand to hold the camera.  However, the AlienBees trigger weighs almost nothing and is very small.  It operates perfectly well with that.

Good Egg Productions wrote:

So have I.  It feels a little clunky and pretty top-heavy, but it just changes how I use my other hand to hold the camera.  However, the AlienBees trigger weighs almost nothing and is very small.  It operates perfectly well with that.

yup



Anything new takes time to get used to.

Photos by Lorrin wrote:
I have heard that the shutter delay makes taking action pictures hard.

It depends on the situation. Current models have a shutter delay that is faster than you can go 'oh, picture!' and press the button. But in low light, the EVF needs a 'longer' exposure at higher ISO settings, and it reacts more slowly. So even though the camera is still essentially instant, the moment may have passed before you get a chance to react.

If you were shooting outdoor, daytime sports, I doubt you'd have a problem. And as ISO performance increases, the problem becomes less and less indoors as well.

Photos by Lorrin wrote:
I have heard that the shutter delay makes taking action pictures hard.

Im sure you won't have that problem with the X-T1 and X100T when you set the electronic shutter to 1/32000

Good Egg Productions wrote:
... Here's one problem with using an EVF with strobes. I want to shoot at f/8 and 1/200 at ISO 200. With an EVF, I can't see what I'm shooting because at those settings, the EVF is black.  Luckily, my mirrorless also has an OVF (Fuji X100S) so I can see. ...

If it's an advanced amateur level body or better, I would expect that it has a way to turn off effects, including the "effect" of showing you what it thinks the sensor will record.

Good Egg Productions wrote:
I use both a full frame conventional DSLR and a mirrorless ASP-C sized sensor camera.

They both have a place in my work flow.

They both offer me certain benefits.


Here's one problem with using an EVF with strobes. I want to shoot at f/8 and 1/200 at ISO 200. With an EVF, I can't see what I'm shooting because at those settings, the EVF is black.  Luckily, my mirrorless also has an OVF (Fuji X100S) so I can see.

Mirrorless is coming. Like it or not. Smaller cameras, faster electronic shutters, silent operation.  Will it replace pentaprisms and mirrors? Maybe. But only as much as tablets have replaced desktop computers. Which they aren't even close to doing yet.

Sony has a setting in their menus for evf cameras that takes care of that. When they put out their first slt cameras, which is an evf camera with a non moving mirror, the black screen was an issue.  It's the "setting effect" that you have to turn off in the menu settings.

Michael Alestra wrote:

if you are comparing someone who shoots with a 1dx....

far superior autofocus.

Sony A6000 mirrorless focusing speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llmciAKNq9c

mophotoart wrote:
Nikon and Canon are not going to go mirrorless full swing until the market hurts their bottom line with dslr sales and the lenses...keyword is lenses....what do you gain from the new format when your lenses are so big it negates the compact size...no one kills their cash cow until they are starving and need to eat....detroit in the late 70's with crap cars had this arrogance...bet in 5 years, dramatic change and shift from the innovative underdogs...as I type on my new desktop and 27 inch hi def photo monitor and cannot remember where my tablet is

this.

there are two types of consumers, those who want convenience of a point and shoot and those who demand performance. I dont see a whole lot of professionals running to sony bodies. sony can innovate sensors all they want but no one is running out to by their cameras because the lens lineup isn't what canon and Nikon offer, worse than that they change their lens mounts all the time, have many lenses have you or any other pro had for years and over how many bodies? try doing that with sony.

canon and nikon are well established in the market an until sony or someone is able to pull a large number of dslr shooters away to a mirrorless. size to me isnt a good reason to switch, especially when the lenses are bigger and heavier than the body itself.

for the record i have a sony rx100, i love it. i'd love to get a smaller mirrorless fullframe body for my travels and to carry around, but i'm not looking to replace my canon dslr.

Good Egg Productions wrote:
Here's one problem with using an EVF with strobes. I want to shoot at f/8 and 1/200 at ISO 200. With an EVF, I can't see what I'm shooting because at those settings, the EVF is black.  Luckily, my mirrorless also has an OVF (Fuji X100S) so I can see.

Funny, I shoot in pretty much the same conditions in my home studio and turn off all of the lights other than modeling lights and a small halogen light (to help with AF) and I haven't experienced this.  What I see through the EVF (Olympus E-M1) is pretty much the same thing I see with my eyes.