Bobby C wrote:

How long have you lived there ?
Being in Thailand recently, I am having a hard time  "connecting" to the US and am seriously considering retiring in Thailand. I am reading a lot of expat blogs and watching you tube vids. I like Chiang Mai but don't do well with the cold weather and the pollution so am thinking of Jontiem or Cha Am.

I've lived in Thailand for 20 years now.

You will have difficulties in the first 3 years or so (most probably in year 3) that will be because of cultural differences. You will either adapt or depart.

Chiang Mai isn't exactly cold by US standards but it does occasionally drop down to freezing there. It is still very hot during the hot season.

I have a number of friends who live in Cha Am or Hua Hin. Both are good places to retire if you like a quiet life not far from the beach. I would not recommend Jomtien. The buildup and steady expansion of Pattaya/Jomtien as a family tourist destination is steadily impacting costs there, and they will climb again. The one big advantage of that area is that there are two expat groups in Pattaya that can be very helpful with all the issues that face expats living here.

Garry k wrote:
I find it disheartening to hear that so many men are interested in going to Thailand because of the prostution

More disheartening still are all the young ( and older ) women there who are forced into such a life by abject poverty

Pretty much untrue anymore and has been untrue for at least a decade.

Toto Photo wrote:
Lived
1.5 Years in France
1.5 Years in Switzerland
.5 Years in Ireland

Visited
1 Month in Greece
Eurailed from Crete to Scandanavia over one summer
Eurailed from Greece to Ireland over one summer
10 days in Bali
Days here or there in Mexico and Canada

I've rented one of my spare bedrooms for over 7 years now. I'm about to rent the second one out. At that point, since rents have gone so high, I will have my mortgage paid by boarders plus some each month.

All your experiences in terms of actually living (visits aren't the same, as you should be aware) are in Europe. You make your own choices based on your situation, but do not assume that your experiences give you an idea of the options available elsewhere in the world.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
...  While I like Thai food, I'd miss my comfort food.
...  As I age, I need more attention from medical professionals, and I'm not sure about the quality of care
     I would be able to find in Thailand.
...  Although I am fairly intelligent, I've never been able to learn a language other than English.
...  If I don't read, write, and speak the local language, I'll always feel like an outsider.

But that's me.

Just to address these points:

Probably any comfort food you are used to is available here - at least in Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Pattaya, Hua Hin, Phuket...

International SOS rates Thailand as among the highest in quality of care, and higher than the USA. In a private hospital in Thailand, a nurse may have to deal with 4-6 patients. In the USA, more like 50. Get medical care here and you will consider medical care in the USA to be poor.

A lot of the expats I know here have never picked up more than a half-dozen phrases in Thai. They have a tendency to hang out only with other expats or with Thais that speak English.

Even if you learn Thai (I speak Thai well), you will still be an outsider. That doesn't have to be a bad thing.

The Grey Forest wrote:
Choice #2 - and take me with you !


A decade ago I would have recommended the Greek Islands, but not in the current state of affairs, and strongly suggest AGAINST Hawaii ~ resided there nearly 5 yrs, Overcrowded & highest cost of living per income in the US and a great deal of racial discrimination to deal with. = never again.

Sure, take me to Thailand with you, I could make free income from tips = the prostitutes would pay 'me' !

...seriously,  I'm that good

Toto Photo wrote:

Is there one big thing in particular that you find so superior in Thailand or just a number of things?

Individual liberty is actually much greater in Thailand than in the USA. That may seem odd to people, but it is the truth. Government simply doesn't intrude into your life nearly as much here.

People are friendlier. A lot friendlier.

It's safer. Not in terms of traffic (I don't drive and I generally don't take taxis - preferring the BTS/MRT) but in terms of the risk in terms of general crime. My daughter can walk around the neighborhood and I can be comfortable with the fact that my neighbors are all looking out for her (and I live in Bangkok, a city comparable in size to NYC).

It's green. Get up in a high building in Bangkok and look down. Green everywhere.  And from the point of view of environmentally friendly, this is a country that recycles. Everything. And does so without the government mandating it, but just because people have chosen to do so and figured out how to make it economically viable.

Economically, it is a thriving, growing nation. When I moved her, textile mills were still common - now one of the largest employers in Thailand is Western Digital and the tech industry is massive. The opportunities related to the constant changes are interesting and challenging and exciting.

At the same time, the nation is self-sufficient. Thailand has a very large agricultural segment (probably more than half the population) and those farms are almost entirely family owned and self-sufficient.

Al Lock Photography wrote:
Pretty much untrue anymore and has been untrue for at least a decade.

Yeah. People that have not recently been to Thailand have this unreal image of what's it like there these days. The world has changed A LOT in the last decade. Parts of Asia is quite developed now.  Right now, A lot of Asian countries are very dynamic and feel like the new world.
I was in India, Thailand and China recently. Coming back to the USA, I feel that the US is the old world and DULL ^ and not to mention all the violence and alienation that is so prevalent in the US.These days Americans ( USA ) seem scared of their own shadows. That is no way to live.
Don't get me wrong. I love this country ( US )  but peoples' lives here are so effed up here.

Michael Bots wrote:
Wherever you go be aware of the income and asset reporting requirements for U.S. citizens. (global tax liability)

There is no question that the United States government treats American citizens living aboard as default criminals.

Al Lock Photography wrote:
There is no question that the United States government treats American citizens living aboard as default criminals.

Yes. The US Govt's attitude towards it's citizens living abroad is pretty poor. The irony is that the US embassies in most countries are the biggest ( square footage wise) of all the countries and usually are in the best neighborhoods. Also the US Govt's record of airlifting it's citizens out of emergency, natural or man made, situations is very poor compared to other developed countries. One reason, while traveling, it's embarrassing to say you are a US citizen, especially to Europeans ( nowadays even to the Indians and Chinese ).
The US embassies abroad have this SMART travel program where they want you to sign up ( voluntary not mandatory ) if you plan on living in a foreign place for 6 months or more. Supposedly, this is so that the US Govt can help you in an emergency. From my personal experience, it's a joke. The US Embassy does not do anything you can't do yourself in an emergency. I am no conspiracy theorist but seems like the US Govt has this program not to help but so they can keep a tab on you and track you abroad.
About banking, I was personally denied from opening an account abroad by a reputable European bank because I was a US citizen. Although I wasn't trying to do anything illegal, the banker told me that the bank did not want to deal with the extra hassle that comes with US citizens and their government.

Wearing the wrong shirt: T-shirts have repeatedly landed protesters in military detention. The offending shirts aren’t scribbled up with slogans urging bloody uprising. One simply read “PEACE PLEASE” and was worn by a Belgian man at a Bangkok traffic circle briefly used as a rally site until troops drove protesters away. This week, a Thai woman in her 70s was arrested at a temple for wearing a shirt that simply said “Respect my Vote!”

ating a sandwich: Since early June, student pro-democracy activists have handed out free sandwiches and staged quiet picnics in lieu of holding protests. Surely, the junta can’t arrest them for eating sandwiches, right?
Wrong. The sandwich activists announced a “picnic” on June 22 outside a glitzy Bangkok mall. On cue, a young Thai man showed up that afternoon. He pulled out a sandwich with trembling fingers and ate it in silence.
He was promptly surrounded by authorities and hauled off. Six others, according to the BBC, were also detained. Their offense? Possessing sandwiches with ill intent. Officers have previously thwarted “sandwich parties” in advance. Thai headlines have even warned that eating sandwiches with anti-coup intent is a criminal act.

Reading “1984” in public: The young sandwich-eating Thai was also reading 1984, the George Orwell masterpiece about a civil servant who tries to rebel against a dystopian tyrannical state. Previous gatherings in which Thais gathered on sidewalks to silently leaf through the book have gone undisturbed by authorities. But any future public readings could lead to more arrests

Throwing up the three-finger “Hunger Games” salute: In the “Hunger Games” science-fiction series, the subjects of a cruel authoritarian regime raise three fingers to signal their dissent. Anti-coup Thais later adopted the salute and began flashing it in Bangkok.This form of protest has tactical advantages: You don’t have to carry around an incriminating sign, book or sandwich. But plain-clothes police have still managed to spot and nab Thai saluters.
Arrests for anti-coup dissent keep mounting. At least 500 to 700 people have been summoned or arrested by the junta, according to estimates provided by the organization Thai Lawyers for Human Rights. Detainees include deposed politicians, activists, journalists and small-time street protesters.

A top junta spokesmen, Werachon Sukhondhapatipak, even urged reporters to stop calling their power seizure a “coup.” He prefers “military intervention." Forced detentions? Those should be called “military accommodation,” he said.

Wow.. So liberty! Much Freedom!

Wye wrote:
Wow.. So liberty! Much Freedom!

Yep. We should all totally move there right nao to enjoy the freedom of a coup-based military regime. I hear tell that those are always the best! And looky here:

The economy, which grew just 0.7 per cent last year, was in recovery, he said, owing to stimulus measures, cheap loans, a speeding up of investment procedures and payments to farmers.

PARADISE!!!!

Jules NYC wrote:
Choice one with no renters in Hawaii.

Excellent choice!!!

These days Americans ( USA ) seem scared of their own shadows.

DCurtis wrote:
I've been to Thailand. There is more liberty there than in the US. But, I would choose Indonesia or the Philippines over Thailand, Thailandish visas seem more wonky.

You mean Thai?

DCurtis wrote:
I've been to Thailand. There is more liberty there than in the US. But, I would choose Indonesia or the Philippines over Thailand, Thailandish visas seem more wonky.

I see statements like this...and I always wonder....could you break that down for me? seriously...what does having more liberty mean? is it freedom to get prostitutes? to use drugs....I dont mean that in a snotty way...I am just wondering.

Bobby C wrote:
Sour grapes much ?

Huh?

I'm just pointing out the stupidity of the notion that there is "more liberty" in a place that has, until very recently, been under martial law and is still under the rule of a military junta.

I've been to Thailand.  Loved the experience and have nothing but positive things to say about my time there and the people I met.  I'm sure many people will continue to visit and move there and generally have a grand old time.

But the "more liberty" bullshit was just too much for me to bear.

Wye wrote:
I'm just pointing out the stupidity of the notion that there is "more liberty" in a place that has, until very recently, been under martial law and is still under the rule of a military junta.

Well... I should point out that the Federal Republic of Germany was under occupation law and not a sovereign nation until the early 1990's and was literally still an occupied zone.

Of course, it didn't have a military junta... but it was under a weakened form of martial law, since the end of WW2...

Wye wrote:
Huh?

I'm just pointing out the stupidity of the notion that there is "more liberty" in a place that has, until very recently, been under martial law and is still under the rule of a military junta.

I've been to Thailand.  Loved the experience and have nothing but positive things to say about my time there and the people I met.  I'm sure many people will continue to visit and move there and generally have a grand old time.

But the "more liberty" bullshit was just too much for me to bear.

Thinking of retiring in  Thailand not because of "more liberty" but because it's beautiful, warm  to hot, cheaper for an equal standard of living, good food, great beaches, relatively very safe, people are generally friendlier/nicer...
Between the so called  liberty of the USA and this,

I'll choose the latter.

Wye wrote:
Wow.. So liberty! Much Freedom!

I've lived n the US and Thailand (and also a number of other nations, including Canada). Thailand easily has the most individual liberty (Cambodia has even more, but I wouldn't be comfortable raising a child there).

You keep relying on reportage. I'll go by my experience.

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
I see statements like this...and I always wonder....could you break that down for me? seriously...what does having more liberty mean? is it freedom to get prostitutes? to use drugs....I dont mean that in a snotty way...I am just wondering.

Freedom to live your life as you choose.

Want to let your lawn grow? Nobody will stop you.

Want to drink beer at 7 in the morning? Nobody will tell you that you shouldn't or report you as a bad parent.

Want to work your ass off and run 5 businesses? Nobody will tell you that you have to have 100 licenses and comply with 5000 regulations or that you can't run business A on the same premises as business B.

Want to get rare beef at a restaurant? They won't tell you they can't serve it because the law says they can't.

Home school your children? Send them to a private school? Send them to a religious school? Send them to a public school? Hire a private tutor? Not school them at all? Your choice. All or any.

You are responsible for yourself. You make your own choices. You live with the consequences of those choices.

That is what liberty is.

Liberty isn't defined by government or laws. It's defined by what choices a person can make.

Wye is cherry-picking from events reported, some of which DIDN'T EVEN HAPPEN, and pretending that defines the nation.

Al Lock Photography wrote:

Freedom to live your life as you choose.

Want to let your lawn grow? Nobody will stop you.

Want to drink beer at 7 in the morning? Nobody will tell you that you shouldn't or report you as a bad parent.

Want to work your ass off and run 5 businesses? Nobody will tell you that you have to have 100 licenses and comply with 5000 regulations or that you can't run business A on the same premises as business B.

Want to get rare beef at a restaurant? They won't tell you they can't serve it because the law says they can't.

Home school your children? Send them to a private school? Send them to a religious school? Send them to a public school? Hire a private tutor? Not school them at all? Your choice. All or any.

You are responsible for yourself. You make your own choices. You live with the consequences of those choices.

That is what liberty is.

Liberty isn't defined by government or laws. It's defined by what choices a person can make.

Wye is cherry-picking from events reported, some of which DIDN'T EVEN HAPPEN, and pretending that defines the nation.

👌🏽
Man, that rare Beef burger,  for a fraction of the price I would pay in the US, I had in Bangkok= yuuuum.🍔

Al Lock Photography wrote:
Freedom to live your life as you choose.

Want to let your lawn grow? Nobody will stop you.

Want to drink beer at 7 in the morning? Nobody will tell you that you shouldn't or report you as a bad parent.

Want to work your ass off and run 5 businesses? Nobody will tell you that you have to have 100 licenses and comply with 5000 regulations or that you can't run business A on the same premises as business B.

Want to get rare beef at a restaurant? They won't tell you they can't serve it because the law says they can't.

Home school your children? Send them to a private school? Send them to a religious school? Send them to a public school? Hire a private tutor? Not school them at all? Your choice. All or any.

You are responsible for yourself. You make your own choices. You live with the consequences of those choices.

That is what liberty is.

Liberty isn't defined by government or laws. It's defined by what choices a person can make.

Wye is cherry-picking from events reported, some of which DIDN'T EVEN HAPPEN, and pretending that defines the nation.

Al Lock Photography wrote:
I've lived n the US and Thailand (and also a number of other nations, including Canada). Thailand easily has the most individual liberty (Cambodia has even more, but I wouldn't be comfortable raising a child there).

You keep relying on reportage. I'll go by my experience.

Excellent summary, Al!

I am always stunned by comments of so-called patriots in the US that you have "only in the US the freedom of doing what you want and achieving your dreams!" Most of those people have never actually lived outside the US... and if those were military who lived in other countries... living on US barracks abroad is still living on US sovereign territory and it's not the same as actually living in other countries, e.g. private housing, paying taxes, working there under local laws.

No country is perfect and in every country you find pros and cons to live in... but, my contention for decades is that you can achieve all "dreams" that you can achieve in the US, you can achieve in pretty much most civilized and industrialized nations... especially Europe.

Not hijacking this thread, just adding food for thought (you, Al, know about this of course), but the land of the "free" has turned justice into a business and created laws to criminalize actions that wouldn't be criminal in other countries, which lead to America being the biggest jailer on the planet, with "housing" only 3% of the world population, while being the "home" of 25% of all the prisoners in the world... and on top, 70 Million US citizens have a criminal record at sometimes in their lives and are unable to obtain certain business licenses, e.g. they can't work as real estate agents or can't even get barber licenses in some states, even though their incarceration may have ended 20 years ago and have not have any run ins with the law ever since.

Great freedom!

I find it great that you are pointing out the actual living conditions and the individual freedoms that you have in other countries, versus the US.

I love New York City with all it's advantages and disadvantages..., but what makes it an even better place besides the cultural offers is that I have an amazing circle of friends and family, which makes living great, no matter where you are.

Al Lock Photography wrote:

I've lived n the US and Thailand (and also a number of other nations, including Canada). Thailand easily has the most individual liberty (Cambodia has even more, but I wouldn't be comfortable raising a child there).

You keep relying on reportage. I'll go by my experience.

Your experience is notoriously... embellished. I mean.. you can't even tell us about the ambient temperature in Bangkok without being wrong.. so.. yeah.. your so-called experience doesn't really mean a whole lot.

In any case.. as much as I have fond memories of my time in Thailand... I'll still go with the liberty to.. you know.. eat a sandwich (with or without ill intent.. usually my only ill intent is towards the sandwich.. but whatever) without danger of arrest.

udor wrote:

Well... I should point out that the Federal Republic of Germany was under occupation law and not a sovereign nation until the early 1990's and was literally still an occupied zone.

Of course, it didn't have a military junta... but it was under a weakened form of martial law, since the end of WW2...

And? What does that have to do with the price of Pad Thai in Thailand?



Man.. I can't believe that I am actually having a discussion of the relative levels of freedom of a place *with* martial law vs a place *without*.

MM.. you never fail to disappoint.

Bobby C wrote:
Say, hypothetically, you are around 50 years old, no debt, and in relatively good health. You have enough cash savings with which you can do one of two things:
1) buy a modest house ( 2 to 3 bedrooms) property in the US and live in it+ rent a room or two out that brings some income.
Or
2) go retire in a tropical place like Thailand where you can live comfortably for the rest of your life.

Which would you choose ?

Build my own cabin in the woods near Kajaani, start a teahouse with greenhouse. Meanwhile maintain a pied-a-terre in Hong Kong as Kajaani gets dark and depressing during the winter months. No retiring, Carmen Dell'Orefice and Iris Apfel are my role models!

Al Lock Photography wrote:
All your experiences in terms of actually living (visits aren't the same, as you should be aware) are in Europe. You make your own choices based on your situation, but do not assume that your experiences give you an idea of the options available elsewhere in the world.

not all countries in Europe are the same.....................

Scandinavia could not be more different from the Mediterranean from Central Europe from Britain and Ireland.........

Bobby C wrote:

Thinking of retiring in  Thailand not because of "more liberty" but because it's beautiful, warm  to hot, cheaper for an equal standard of living, good food, great beaches, relatively very safe, people are generally friendlier/nicer...

Good for you.  I never said you were interested in the "more liberty" bullshit. My response was to another poster.

Go to thailand.. enjoy it.  You'll have a great time.  Just don't get suckered by the nightmare that is the libertarian's dream.

Toto Photo wrote:

Toto Photo wrote:
All things considered I'd rather live in the US, even with all its problems, than anywhere else in the world.

Lived
1.5 Years in France
1.5 Years in Switzerland
.5 Years in Ireland

Visited
1 Month in Greece
Eurailed from Crete to Scandanavia over one summer
Eurailed from Greece to Ireland over one summer
10 days in Bali
Days here or there in Mexico and Canada

I've rented one of my spare bedrooms for over 7 years now. I'm about to rent the second one out. At that point, since rents have gone so high, I will have my mortgage paid by boarders plus some each month.

If those were your choices and only experiences "living" ( I assume it was an exchange program of sorts? The 1.5 years each?) in those, I can see why a Californian wouldn't want to try somewhere else.