Jay Dezelic wrote:
Greece has closed its banks and implemented capital controls today -- freezing customer accounts and limiting withdrawals to $67 per day for it's citizens:

What do you think?  Is a big "adjustment" about to occur or will the world continue having confidence in insolvent banks and governments?

Greece committed fraud!

If Greece were a US citizen, and would have lied about it's assets, forged documents to get approval for a major bankloan... then Greece would have been convicted of bankfraud and done time... unless if she would have been "too big to fail"...

The sub-prime loan debacle in the US had to do with lenders giving mortgages to people who would never have gotten a loan from a regular bank, because lending criteria weren't met... so... those high risk loans were sold, then packaged and as derivatives traded on Wall Street... I know(!), because I traded CMO's (Collateralized Mortgage Obligations) in the mid-90's at a Bond House on Wall Street (No.2)...

Greece faked their balance sheets to be accepted in the EU and the Euro system! She was never qualified to be part of the system because of lack of financial strength... so, they defrauded the EU, entered... and is now burning!

Most things that are based on fraudulent misrepresentations fail sooner or later... now it's Greece's turn to face the sirtaki...

Chris Rifkin wrote:
The model is what Iceland did,let all the banks fail,arrest the frauds,start over
their economy is from what I gather one of the top 5 in the world

Yep... and funny enough... those frauds and finance models that lead to the downfall... were ALL American...

The swift action in the aftermath, cutting ties to US bank practices is what helped to turn Iceland around!

I remember a great documentary about this on PBS Frontline some years back...

udor wrote:

Greece committed fraud!

If Greece were a US citizen, and would have lied about it's assets, forged documents to get approval for a major bankloan... then Greece would have been convicted of bankfraud and done time... unless if she would have been "too big to fail"...

The sub-prime loan debacle in the US had to do with lenders giving mortgages to people who would never have gotten a loan from a regular bank, because lending criteria weren't met... so... those high risk loans were sold, then packaged and as derivatives traded on Wall Street... I know(!), because I traded CMO's (Collateralized Mortgage Obligations) in the mid-90's at a Bond House on Wall Street (No.2)...

Greece faked their balance sheets to be accepted in the EU and the Euro system! She was never qualified to be part of the system because of lack of financial strength... so, they defrauded the EU, entered... and is now burning!

Most things that are based on fraudulent misrepresentations fail sooner or later... now it's Greece's turn to face the sirtaki...

It just makes one wonder about how deep the fraud goes with regard to fluffing up balance sheets.  Isn't the US pretty much in the same position as before the 2008 crash?

I am not clear on how the experts believe that a default in Greece will have an effect on larger economies, but I suspect it's because the system is so tightly integrated.  Classic bank runs are simply votes of no-confidence by depositors. If a "low confidence" epidemic starts spreading to other countries, then it seems that cash shortfalls will get tougher to manage.

Solas wrote:
Wonder what would happen with the american debt if that happened over here. .they have far more debt

The Federal Reserve (a consortium of private banks) has been accumulating much of the debt.   
Where did the money come from?   They made it up out of thin air.

Bank Bail In   (Google it) -- take the depositors money to make up any shortfall.

The Secret of Oz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qIhDdST27g

Former World Bank President: Big Shift Coming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a0zhc1y_Ns
        ( how the equation between developed and developing countries is changing.)

Money creation in the modern economy
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publicat … 14q102.pdf
"Whenever a bank makes a loan, it simultaneously creates a matching deposit in the borrower’s bank account, thereby creating new money"
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IMF forecasts for Greece and Reality
https://twitter.com/ReutersJamie/status … 64/photo/1



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Europe Only Has a Future With the New Silk Road
http://thephaser.com/2015/06/we-are-all-greeks/
"Why should the Greek government stick with the austerity measures demanded by the EU, which have already reduced the Greek economy by a third, lowered the birth rate, raised the death rate, and increased youth unemployment to 65%? A policy that even the IMF had to admit was completely incompetent, and that the UN expert on debt and human rights condemned as a clear violation of human rights?"
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China-led AIIB development bank holds signing ceremony
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-33307314

"The UK, Germany, Australia and South Korea are among the founding members.
Japan and the US, which oppose the AIIB, are the most prominent countries not to join"


57 countries set to sign on to China-backed investment bank AIIB
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/0 … bank-aiib/

"The multilateral institution, seen as a rival to the Western-dominated World Bank and Asian Development Bank, was initially opposed by the United States but has attracted many prominent U.S. allies including Britain, Germany, Australia and South Korea. Other founding members include most Asian nations and countries from the Middle East and South America."

Michael Bots wrote:
"

man nevermind asking google, you're like a robot of information on everything !

Instinct Images wrote:
Greece has a major problem in that a significant portion of their GDP is under the table and so it's not taxed. Of course that's just ONE of the many severe problems that Greece has. I don't see any way they can avoid default.

Exactly. Greeks have an inherent resistance to paying taxes, so about 1/2 the business/commerce is done outside the tax system. But, since they also have a heavy dependence on social programs, there's a real squeeze. Options to borrow more to just stay afloat (with no real promise of actually fixing the root problem) are getting increasingly scarce.

Instinct Images wrote:
Greece has a major problem in that a significant portion of their GDP is under the table and so it's not taxed. Of course that's just ONE of the many severe problems that Greece has. I don't see any way they can avoid default.

Lightcraft Studio wrote:
Exactly. Greeks have an inherent resistance to paying taxes, so about 1/2 the business/commerce is done outside the tax system. But, since they also have a heavy dependence on social programs, there's a real squeeze. Options to borrow more to just stay afloat (with no real promise of actually fixing the root problem) are getting increasingly scarce.

was robbing peter to pay paul a greek thing? i forget. it was probably a rome thing, but my memory is foggy.

GK photo wrote:
was robbing peter to pay paul a greek thing? i forget. it was probably a rome thing, but my memory is foggy.

It's complicated:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/rob- … -paul.html

NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:
Reagan was the beginning of the end.

Not sure where this falls.

your trolling was the beginning of the end...of SB...please stay on topic

Jay Dezelic wrote:
Will Greece set a precedence for defaulting on public debt? There are many other countries that are on the edge of financial ruin from over-spending. A wave of defaults could turn a lot of paper assets around the world into toilet paper--which would, in tern, gut the capitalization of the world economy.

I'm more concerned about Brazil than I am about Greece. We also have some ticking time bombs even closer to home, Puerto Rico being one of them. But, there are some good opportunities out there if you have the stomach for the "junk bond" market... I don't right now, as I think things that things that have been kept hidden from us are going to start seeing the light of day in the next 2 years. It might get bumpy, so I'm opting to keep a larger than usual cash position.

NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:
Reagan was the beginning of the end. Not sure where this falls.

FlirtynFun Photography wrote:
your trolling was the beginning of the end...of SB...please stay on topic

Actually that statement about Reagan was more on spot-on that you know, its a string of government psychosis and historical events that have already tipped the scales to a degree that will forever effect the modern world.

The Gov jumped at it, but the citizens didn't want to enter the EU and resisted it from day 1.  Given with that mindset, things only got progressively worse for most.  The riots & torching over the past several years were symptoms of a underlying cultural issue.  Greeks resist overbearing authority - to an unbalanced and extraordinary level ~ and frown upon the exploits of the uber-rich.  Germany still owes Greece billions in reparations that would more than pay off the debt ~ but that's a shill game that all countries play - We owe them, while owing others, who owe us, on tallies that will never ever be settled = NEVER

Here in Greece, the cabal of the Central Bank and its mafia system of perpetual debt is seen as slavery, nothing less. 

I'm not wealthy by any means, but over the past few years I've sacrificed and bought thousands in groceries for friends & acquaintances who had nothing to eat, its heartbreaking.  We help each other where we can.  But keep in mind that this series of events can (and eventually will) happen in the USA.

Is there light at the end of the tunnel for us?  maybe after a series of riots against the banks, if martial law is imposed then the reaction will most likely turn violent or into a shade of Civil War, or a measure of government reform at the very least (do some house cleaning of the cabinets)  With 60% of the population is centered around Athens any catalyst won't go unnoticed.


...I'm interested in seeing how this affects the US economy, gas prices, and the upcoming public stress of the Jade Helm Military Operations come July 15th and end result of the secret Trans-Pacific Partnership.

Blue Cube Imaging wrote:
Please remember when posting that SoapBox is closed.

Forgive me for being confused, but discussing international finance/investing is SoapBox'ish while the couple of threads that are all out hate fests against Christians is perfectly fine?

I would have asked you in a PM, but I know mods don't want us to use PM for these sorts of questions, and others might want to understand the "guidelines" as well.

Springfield Fotografiya wrote:
The best solution may be the simplest solution.  The Greeks want the Germans to pay to provide for them.  The Germans want the Greeks to be governed like Germans.  Why not make Greece the 14th state of Germany?  That would keep it within the EU, but as a member state of Germany.  The Greeks would be better off being provided for and governed by the Germans than they are on their own.  The Germans would be better off without a rogue member of the EU and with the land, people and resources of Greece.

(Dr. Evil voice)  ....riiiggggght 

While I do agree that Germany has reformed itself for the better ~ I can think of 101 uses for olive oil that will slip up any plans of that ever happening.

Lightcraft Studio wrote:
I would have asked you in a PM, but I know mods don't want us to use PM for these sorts of questions, and others might want to understand the "guidelines" as well.

One really good guideline would be to stop writing intellectually dishonest nonsense like this:

"threads that are all out hate fests against Christians"

NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:

One really good guideline would be to stop writing intellectually dishonest nonsense like this:

"threads that are all out hate fests against Christians"

There are dozens of posts in those threads where if the exact same sentences had been uttered, except substituting "Muhammad" or "Gay People" for "Jesus" or "Christians" then there would be WWIII and people would be getting brigged quicker than you can say "Obama is.....".

Double standards live on here in MM land, as usual.