Yajhil Alvarez wrote:
Hi everyone.  Got two flashes, was shooting in 80 degree weather in the sun.  Was using them just for fill light.  Anyway, after 5 minutes and firing each no more than like 15 times, with plenty of time to recharge in between, they said NUH UH and the overheating icon showed up on both.  Do any of you know of any tricks to prevent this from happening?  I ended up just going to the shade and using them there.  That worked out great real quick but I'm not sure that's a good solution all the time.

I have a 580EX.which I use with a beauty dish...same terrible problem! Works ok for maybe 10-15 minutes, then slows to a snails pace once it is fully warmed up.I just hate it!

J O H N  A L L A N wrote:
Don't use cheap flashes.
But, yeah - as said above, something to block the direct sun.

Hmmm... my Nikon SB800's are just as bad and ain't cheap either.  With the rapid firing, it melted the plastic lens.  This was just indoor shooting in an air conditioned room. 

Just need to slow down and dial down the flash, and have a second unit helps.

GRMACK wrote:
2. Some report cooler running with the eneloop batteries too.

.

I am a die hard Sanyo Eneloop fan, but this does not makes any sense to me unless the eneloops are near empty and take forever to recharge the flash.

WCR3 wrote:
You have two strobes. Use both at the same time, each at half the power you would use for a single one. For example, if your flash meter (or chimping) says to shoot at 1/2 power with a single strobe, using two in tandem at 1/4 power will allow each to work less hard, and heat up less.

Another thing you can do is increase your ISO. If you're shooting at, say, ISO 100 and your flash is at 1/2 power, raise the ISO to 200 and you can set your flash to 1/4 power.

Use the two suggestions in combination -- double the ISO and use two flashes in tandem -- and you can set each flash to 1/8 power. You'll be much less likely to overheat.

or move the flash closer to the subject.  Remember the inverse-square law, more effective..hahaha

Vintagevista wrote:
My only solution was to have cold batteries standing by.  When the heat transfer begins to overwhelm the ability to dissipate heat to the outside - the only quick solution was create a new heat sink on the inside.

Pop some cold/cool batteries in and let it set for a second and it cools from the inside - a battery change takes far less time than to wait for it to cool on it's own.  Let hot batteries cool down - rinse/repeat

It's a crappy/cumbersome solution to a problem that should not occur - but, it did work.

The overheat problem I have as well as many of others is NOT due the internal heat generated by the battery.  It is the intensity of the light emitted by the strobe causes the overheating.  The flash lens melted.  Putting the new battery in will not help.  In fact, it may increase more damage because of the faster recycling time.

Connor Photography wrote:
The overheat problem I have as well as many of others is NOT due the internal heat generated by the battery.  It is the intensity of the light emitted by the strobe causes the overheating.  The flash lens melted.  Putting the new battery in will not help.  In fact, it may increase more damage because of the faster recycling time.

This is partially true.

However, I've torn into my Nikon SB-900 and there are "two" thermal resettable fuses in the back of the plastic battery compartment.  One for each pair of double AA batteries so Nikon knows batteries do get hot on discharge, and depending on their chemistry, internal resistance, voltage, and discharge, some a lot hotter than others.  The third thermal reset fuse, and one I suspect is the main issue, rests on some aluminum heat sink by a transformer.  I thought about upping its value, but the number of glazed and heat-cracked strobe flashtubes kept me from doing it, along with not having the ability to alter the firmware to slow down the recycle time.  No doubt why Nikon gave up on the SB-900 and went to the SB-910 too; firmware would be easy fix, but busting into the thing to change it all out is another matter if it was underdesigned (It was.).

Also, since batteries do get hot, I had some rechargeable AA actually swell out and pushed against the battery door and broke it.  Cost me $75 for a new plastic battery door too.  Some batteries aren't that hot when I switch them out, but always seems some others are, and sometimes jsut one odd battery in the groups is blistering hot.  The eneloops seem to run cool for their discharge.  I also seem to recall the SB-900 doesn't terminate in the 6 volts off the four cells in series, but branches off in parrallel with lower voltages for some things inside the thing so an even discharge of all 4 AA cells is is sort of puzzling in the design of the thing.

Best to keep these things cool if you want full output (Ice bucket?  ).  That or give up on them and resort to Vagabond mini for power and use studio units which is what I do now (but I'm not fond of the weight and packing!).

Fwiw, there are water-cooled flash-tubes out there.  Haven't seen them in photo gear myself.  Probably specialty stuff made by Elmer-Perkins or someone.

Connor Photography wrote:
Hmmm... my Nikon SB800's are just as bad and ain't cheap either.  With the rapid firing, it melted the plastic lens.  This was just indoor shooting in an air conditioned room. 
Just need to slow down and dial down the flash, and have a second unit helps.

Nikon should patent that technology. It's pretty amazing that they can generate so much heat from just 4 AA batteries. I think our energy crisis is solved.

Back to op's question; for location portability and cost, I use my Sunpaks. 3-544's and 1-522. they work great.

Connor Photography wrote:
Hmmm... my Nikon SB800's are just as bad and ain't cheap either.  With the rapid firing, it melted the plastic lens.  This was just indoor shooting in an air conditioned room. 
Just need to slow down and dial down the flash, and have a second unit helps.

Chuckarelei wrote:
Nikon should patent that technology. It's pretty amazing that they can generate so much heat from just 4 AA batteries. I think our energy crisis is solved.

Back to op's question; for location portability and cost, I use my Sunpaks. 3-544's and 1-522. they work great.

Why not?   It is basic college physics 102.   I was not the only one who experienced the melt down from the flash.  Given in sufficient of amp and in a very short duration, it can melt metal.  Just look at the stick welder.

GRMACK wrote:
This is partially true.

However, I've torn into my Nikon SB-900 and there are "two" thermal resettable fuses in the back of the plastic battery compartment.  One for each pair of double AA batteries so Nikon knows batteries do get hot on discharge, and depending on their chemistry, internal resistance, voltage, and discharge, some a lot hotter than others.  The third thermal reset fuse, and one I suspect is the main issue, rests on some aluminum heat sink by a transformer.  I thought about upping its value, but the number of glazed and heat-cracked strobe flashtubes kept me from doing it, along with not having the ability to alter the firmware to slow down the recycle time.  No doubt why Nikon gave up on the SB-900 and went to the SB-910 too; firmware would be easy fix, but busting into the thing to change it all out is another matter if it was underdesigned (It was.).

Also, since batteries do get hot, I had some rechargeable AA actually swell out and pushed against the battery door and broke it.  Cost me $75 for a new plastic battery door too.  Some batteries aren't that hot when I switch them out, but always seems some others are, and sometimes jsut one odd battery in the groups is blistering hot.  The eneloops seem to run cool for their discharge.  I also seem to recall the SB-900 doesn't terminate in the 6 volts off the four cells in series, but branches off in parrallel with lower voltages for some things inside the thing so an even discharge of all 4 AA cells is is sort of puzzling in the design of the thing.

Best to keep these things cool if you want full output (Ice bucket?  ).  That or give up on them and resort to Vagabond mini for power and use studio units which is what I do now (but I'm not fond of the weight and packing!).

Fwiw, there are water-cooled flash-tubes out there.  Haven't seen them in photo gear myself.  Probably specialty stuff made by Elmer-Perkins or someone.

Yeah, what he said ^^ - I was addressing the OP - and there was no mention in the post about the tube heat melting external parts on his flash..

The SB900's that I was using suffered from thermal shutdown based on the battery heat - as mentioned - fast firing frequently got some of the batteries smoking hot.

However - a new set of cold batteries got them back up and running fast - and the cool/cold batteries would hold for about as long as from a "Cold start" for fast firing.

That was my solution -

For those melting the tube lens covers - I have never experienced that and have no guess how to help - I thought I could help for the battery overheat issue.

Vintagevista wrote:

Yeah, what he said ^^ - I was addressing the OP - and there was no mention in the post about the tube heat melting external parts on his flash..

The SB900's that I was using suffered from thermal shutdown based on the battery heat - as mentioned - fast firing frequently got some of the batteries smoking hot.

However - a new set of cold batteries got them back up and running fast - and the cool/cold batteries would hold for about as long as from a "Cold start" for fast firing.

That was my solution - for those melting the tube lens covers - I have never experienced that and have no guess how to help - I thought I could help for the battery overheat issue.

I had pretty good shoot today with flash.I think you are completely right about replacing the batteries. Also,I ran power at 1/4,so it took quite some time before overheating became an issue.

Yajhil Alvarez wrote:
Got two flashes, was shooting in 80 degree weather in the sun.

Even when the ambient is only 80 degrees, direct sun can heat a black object to the point that it is painful to touch.  Test this for yourself.

Yes, shade the flashes if this is a problem for you.

GRMACK wrote:
Some report cooler running with the eneloop batteries too.

Connor Photography wrote:
I am a die hard Sanyo Eneloop fan, but this does not makes any sense to me unless the eneloops are near empty and take forever to recharge the flash.

The reason that Eneloop Pro (or XXX) batteries may help is related to the later post indicating that with rapid use, the batteries themselves heat up (i.e. replacing batteries with a cold set).  The black top versions of the Eneloop are designed for faster / more efficient power output, faster recycle times and longer session shoots.  So it makes sense that when comparing batteries they "struggle less" with the demands on them and stay cooler in comparison.  External battery packs are also a good solution for similar reasons.

Naturally this only applies to flashes where the batteries inside them get too hot from rapid / repeated full power flash usage.  Batteries aren't the only way a flash can overheat, of course.  But having hot batteries inside certainly compounds the internal heat issue.  And the very real issue of direct heat from the sun, is an entirely different matter altogether!

Yajhil Alvarez wrote:
Thanks everyone.  Yeah I was out like 5 maybe 10 minutes using one and it told me to stop using it.  Then I tried the other and same thing.  So I gave up and we went to the shade but that's embarrassing to me.  I have a few paids gigs coming up so maybe I will invest on one strobe with a power pack once i get through them.  For now I have to figure out a solution.  So far the umbrella thing sounds doable but that would mean i would have one huge ass umbrella properly placed for diffusion and then a tape umbrella up on top.  Granted, I have a sandbag but that's probably going to fly off into outer space.  I'll see what I can manage.  If you guys have any other easy, broke people solutions let me know!

Maybe try taping a piece of white or reflective material on top of the flashes to block direct sun. Could be useless advice though, I haven't had this problem. Good luck!

And yes, since you're using them for fill, try dialing them down to 1/16 power or less and shoot slower.

Chris Rifkin wrote:
Invest in any of the godox or godox rebrand bare bulb flashes..
More power,uses a battery pack but never overheats

I might go with this suggestion. At almost the same price of Nikon SB910, you'll get 320WS bare bulb strobe with ext. powerpack.
Then you can use those 2 flashes as hair light or to light the background.

If getting a new strobe isn't an option ... use those 2 acailable flashes in tandem (to lower the individual flash power) and raise your ISO like some other folks suggested are great as well ...

Since I've switched to strobes & battery pack, now I have never have overheating problem anymore ...

The F-Stop wrote:
why should this be a problem? are flash units being made cheaper?

im totaly a dinasour with equipment but back in the dark days, cold was the menice causing bettery problems, never heat.

i used a sunpac 611 or a vivitar both with an external battery as well as the nicads that came with it. using it full power poping off as fast as she'll charge up on the hottest dawg days of summer in nyc, the units never complained once.

i was considering buying a new flash for my digital because i was told my old ones would cook my camera unless i got some kind of isolation gizmo.

hearing this, i may get that gizmo now.

i gotta see if i still have my old metz

Cheaper is relative. A $500 flash would be something like $200 in 1980s money. So tech has evolved, but the quality of materials may have been reduced. The biggest difference is that most modern units recycle faster, and produce more power per second than older units. They're also larger relative to their power, which helps with heat distribution. Lastly older design capacitors tend to draw less power over a longer time, which creates less of a heat spike.

Many older, high-quality units (I'm looking at you, Sunpak 622!) can be fired at full power as fast as possible while plugged directly into AC power, and will never overheat. At least, not unless you keep firing it for ten minutes. Then again, you're using a larger unit and a wall socket to produce less light than a more compact modern unit, so ... Trade offs.

JGC Photography wrote:
Use a battery pack.

More available power means no voltage drop.
Voltage drop means much higher amperage...High amperage creates heat and that is what melts your flash....Any flash without a cutout.

My sb-910 just stops working if I hammer away at 1/1.
Add a pack and it runs all day

Another big advantage of a pack is that if(when) it heats up, that heat isn't inside the flash. There are plenty of times when I hurt myself taking hot batteries out of a pack, and lots more when I had an uncomfortable hot spot on my belt. But I've only had the flash shut down once or twice while using the pack.

Zack Zoll wrote:

Cheaper is relative. A $500 flash would be something like $200 in 1980s money. So tech has evolved, but the quality of materials may have been reduced. The biggest difference is that most modern units recycle faster, and produce more power per second than older units. They're also larger relative to their power, which helps with heat distribution. Lastly older design capacitors tend to draw less power over a longer time, which creates less of a heat spike.

Many older, high-quality units (I'm looking at you, Sunpak 622!) can be fired at full power as fast as possible while plugged directly into AC power, and will never overheat. At least, not unless you keep firing it for ten minutes. Then again, you're using a larger unit and a wall socket to produce less light than a more compact modern unit, so ... Trade offs.

i made my own external battery fot it. im using a sealed lead acid 6v battery. i made wood dowels to fit the battery compartment and ran my wires to the appropiate terminals.

this sucker will recycle at full power almost as fast as you can pop her off n never overheat.

my battery would last about 40 rolls.

now if i can find an isolation circuit to adapt it to my digital.... id be happy like pig!

The F-Stop wrote:
i made my own external battery fot it. im using a sealed lead acid 6v battery. i made wood dowels to fit the battery compartment and ran my wires to the appropiate terminals.

this sucker will recycle at full power almost as fast as you can pop her off n never overheat.

my battery would last about 40 rolls.

now if i can find an isolation circuit to adapt it to my digital.... id be happy like pig!

I have been thinking about that also.  Don't the electronic flashes (like my SB800) have an external power input.  Do you need wood dowels to fill the battery space and for power input?  I assume the flash will take a 6 volts battery power, right?

Connor Photography wrote:
I have been thinking about that also.  Don't the electronic flashes (like my SB800) have an external power input.  Do you need wood dowels to fill the battery space and for power input?  I assume the flash will take a 6 volts battery power, right?

I learned with my SB-900 and a high-voltage external pack that I need to have both the four AA cells in the flash as well as the corded external pack in order to work.  I suspect the AA cells feed some of the lower-voltage computer stuff, and the HV part (My HV pack's cord puts out 320 volts at the pins.) feeds the flashtube part.  This was with a Quantum Turbo that I thought was defective in either the pack or the cord until I finally read the fine print somewhere that it needed the AA cells too which seemed odd.

Fwiw, the flash recycles faster with the external HV pack (Not a whole lot though!) and the AA cells are cooler, but the flash tube area gets really hot.

GRMACK wrote:
I learned with my SB-900 and a high-voltage external pack that I need to have both the four AA cells in the flash as well as the corded external pack in order to work.  I suspect the AA cells feed some of the lower-voltage computer stuff, and the HV part (My HV pack's cord puts out 320 volts at the pins.) feeds the flashtube part.  This was with a Quantum Turbo that I thought was defective in either the pack or the cord until I finally read the fine print somewhere that it needed the AA cells too which seemed odd.

Fwiw, the flash recycles faster with the external HV pack (Not a whole lot though!) and the AA cells are cooler, but the flash tube area gets really hot.

Whoa, this is interesting.  it almost makes no sense to me why did Nikon engineers designed their unit like this.  Something is amiss in my understanding.  Now it explains why Quantum unit is so expensive. 

If this is true, F-stop's way is the way to go.  Tap a 6 volts power source directly into the battery compartment of the flash, and be done. 

http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-Lantern- … lt+battery
http://www.amazon.com/6V-10Ah-SLA-Recha … lt+battery

Connor Photography wrote:
.....
If this is true, F-stop's way is the way to go.  Tap a 6 volts power source directly into the battery compartment of the flash, and be done. 

http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-Lantern- … lt+battery
http://www.amazon.com/6V-10Ah-SLA-Recha … lt+battery

That might work using 4 dowels as AA batteries and maybe thumbtacks as the end caps.  Be careful as I seem to recall Nikon uses odd voltage take-off points: e.g. Maybe 2 cells provide 3 volts somewhere rather than the full 6 volts off the four cells in series.  You might find the schematic online that shows the problem in the way they got into the 4 cells and split up the voltages out of them, and maybe why they used two thermal fuses for each pair too for different loads.

hmmm...  Now that I think about it, might become an issue as the 6 volt battery mentioned will not be able to split into the smaller voltages up in the battery compartment the way Nikon designed it.  Might need four larger 1.5 cells and wires to each dowel (AA battery substitute) for the proper voltage take-offs?

Then you also have the issue of trying to keep them in the case without needing to cut an exit hole around the battery door too.  Nikon replaced the battery door in one of mine and it was a $75 fix (Battery expanded and bowed it outwards and cracked it.  Krazy-Glue held it together for a while until it got fixed.).

I see Godox/Neewer makes a power pack like the Quantum that's much cheaper ($116), but they also show the need to have 4 AA cells in the flash in the Amazon Product Description of their cord too:  http://www.amazon.com/NEEWER%C2%AE-PB82 … B00FON856E

Oh well...

Connor Photography wrote:
I have been thinking about that also.  Don't the electronic flashes (like my SB800) have an external power input.  Do you need wood dowels to fill the battery space and for power input?  I assume the flash will take a 6 volts battery power, right?

yes the regular batteries are 4 C cells or its NiCad 4 cell battery pack that puts out 6 volts.

the external input via a cable n special input plug for the external battery pack sunpack makes for it has a transformer built into it that steps the battery voltage up to like 510volts.

i just filled the top battery compartment with dowels with nails where my wires hook up to make proper contact with the battery terminals..

my sealed 6v lead acid battery has a higher Ahr rating n doesnt drop like conventional batteries under load so charge time is fast. also the battery life is much longer as well.

now my problem is isolating it from my digital camera via optocoupler.