Forums > Off-Topic Discussion > Most Photographed Lion shot for sport

Photographer

udor

Posts: 25255

New York, New York, US

SAND DIAL wrote:

That has an element of truth.

Do female or male lions hunt? | Yahoo Answers
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid...
Aug 11, 2009 - Best Answer: Both. It is a common misconception that male lions don't hunt. Whilst females do the majority of the hunting for the pride, males ...

In addition to that:

"The animal had a GPS collar fitted for a research project by UK-based Oxford University that allowed authorities to track its movements. The hunters tried to destroy it, but failed, according to the ZCTF. [...]

The six cubs of Cecil will now be killed by the new male lion in the pride, Johnny Rodrigues added, in order to encourage the lionesses to mate with him.

"That's how it works... it's in the wild. It's nature taking its course," he added."


Cause & Effect... Action & Reaction

Jul 29 15 05:06 am Link

Photographer

Mike Collins

Posts: 2880

Orlando, Florida, US

SAND DIAL wrote:
'I hope he looses HIS life by losing his business, goes bankrupt and also goes to jail'.

I dont see what that would prove.
He may have family to support.

That being noted, he had money to burn.

It would prove that you have to live with the decisions you make in life.  It will prove that just because you have money, it doesn't give you the right to slaughter a beautiful creature in such a despicable way.  There is the ole saying "You made your bed.  Now lie in it."

I have nothing against hunting.  But again, THIS is not hunting.  I don't even see how anyone would be so proud to even hang the "trophy" on their wall.  He paid $50,000.  He wasn't going home empty handed.  I don't care how much he say's "he didn't know."  Bullshit.  He knew.  Who "hunts" in the way this all went down? 

If he has family, I really feel sorry for them.  Who would be proud to be married or be the child of a person like this?

Jul 29 15 05:50 am Link

Photographer

Connor Photography

Posts: 8539

Newark, Delaware, US

Sport hunting is just so barbaric.  It makes no sense in today's society.  This dentist is just evil and a lair.  His records show this was not the first time. 

May be eye for an eye, he should capture him and put him in the jungle and shackle his feet and let the lions and tigers hunt him down.

Jul 29 15 07:09 am Link

Photographer

SAND DIAL

Posts: 6688

Santa Monica, California, US

'Cause & Effect... Action & Reaction'.
The laws of the jungle. Kill or be killed.

I recall the 'mess' in Ohio where a significant number of Bengal Tigers were killed.
There arent that many left, worldwide;

Zanesville Animal Massacre Included 18 Rare Bengal Tigers
abcnews.go.com › US
Oct 19, 2011 - Cops in Zanesville, Ohio, were forced to shoot down as many as 56 ... so many Bengal tigers killed when they are on the verge of extinction.

Jul 29 15 08:21 am Link

Photographer

Robb Mann

Posts: 12327

Baltimore, Maryland, US

I am enjoying watching the growing groundswell of internet-based wrath against him.

Jul 29 15 08:28 am Link

Photographer

udor

Posts: 25255

New York, New York, US

SAND DIAL wrote:
'Cause & Effect... Action & Reaction'.
The laws of the jungle. Kill or be killed.

I don't think that the laws of the jungle apply in a situation when one of the parties to a battle is using weapons that are not found like that in the jungle, but are engineered, utilizing vehicles that are manufactured in factories that have nothing to do with jungle... or nature for that matter.

Give the man a knife at most, send him to the lion's den... and then we can talk about the "law of the jungle"...   wink

Jul 29 15 08:38 am Link

Photographer

SAND DIAL

Posts: 6688

Santa Monica, California, US

Udor, I was not referring to the human but to a new male, new cubs. That Law.

Thanks to Drudge,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … babwe.html

Jul 29 15 09:05 am Link

Photographer

What Fun Productions

Posts: 20868

Phoenix, Arizona, US

Late-night TV host Jimmy Kimmel became emotional Tuesday night discussing the situation:

https://youtu.be/_LzXpE1mjqA

Jul 29 15 09:13 am Link

Photographer

Blue Cube Imaging

Posts: 11883

Ashland, Oregon, US

Robb Mann wrote:
I am enjoying watching the growing groundswell of internet-based wrath against him.

Yes, his Yelp page has gone haywire.

Yelp reviewers tear apart American dentist who killed Cecil the lion

http://www.yelp.com/biz/walter-j-palmer-dds-minneapolis

I feel sorry for his staff because they're likely out of jobs based on his beyond stupid actions.

Jul 29 15 09:23 am Link

Photographer

Robb Mann

Posts: 12327

Baltimore, Maryland, US

According to the BBC poaching isn't his only hobby:

"Records from the Minnesota Board of Dentistry also show that Mr Palmer was the subject of a sexual harassment complaint which was settled in 2006.
A receptionist alleged that he had made indecent comments to her. Mr Palmer admitted no wrongdoing and agreed to pay out more than $127,000.."

Jul 29 15 09:39 am Link

Photographer

Bobby C

Posts: 2696

Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand

"...The 13-year-old lion, recognizable by the black streaks in his mane, suffered a slow death, according to the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force.
The hunters lured him out of the sanctuary of the park with a dead animal on top of a vehicle, the conservation group said.

Palmer, officials said, then shot the lion with a crossbow, a method for which he is known. But Cecil survived another 40 hours until the hunters tracked him down and shot him with a gun.
..."     http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/29/africa/zi … on-killed/

Extradite Minnesotan Walter James Palmer to face justice in Zimbabwe.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti … e-zimbabwe

https://a.abcnews.com/images/International/HT_cecil_lion_01_jef_150728_4x3_992.jpg

Jul 29 15 10:01 am Link

Artist/Painter

ethasleftthebuilding

Posts: 16685

Key West, Florida, US

That guy is NOT a hunter, he is a POACHER!  No self respecting hunter is going to defend the actions of a poacher.

He has a prior for poaching and also paid off a sexual harassment complaint.

He needs to be sent back to Africa to face the music for his crime.

Jul 29 15 10:10 am Link

Photographer

udor

Posts: 25255

New York, New York, US

Bobby C wrote:
Extradite Minnesotan Walter James Palmer to face justice in Zimbabwe.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti … e-zimbabwe

Signed!

Jul 29 15 10:39 am Link

Photographer

Bobby C

Posts: 2696

Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand

Walter J Palmer, DDS = NOT !!!
Walter J Palmer, POS = YES !!!

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/29/10/2AEDDF3A00000578-3178135-image-a-24_1438163315775.jpg

Jul 29 15 10:54 am Link

Photographer

Zack Zoll

Posts: 6895

Glens Falls, New York, US

udor wrote:

I don't think that the laws of the jungle apply in a situation when one of the parties to a battle is using weapons that are not found like that in the jungle, but are engineered, utilizing vehicles that are manufactured in factories that have nothing to do with jungle... or nature for that matter.

Give the man a knife at most, send him to the lion's den... and then we can talk about the "law of the jungle"...   wink

I think this example shows that giving a guy a knife doesn't work. If they're enough of an asshat, they're going to find a way around it

This guy used a crossbow, which is only marginally more deadly than a regular bow. The complaints about crossbows stateside come from the fact that they have increased range and are easier to operate, and the fact that most crossbow hunters are lazy guys that want to extend hunting season without actual effort. If the target doesn't have thick hide, and you're shooting from a Jeep at close range, a crossbow might as well be an old-school recurve bow, and is much less deadly than a spear, provided the hunter doesn't throw like a geriatric.

If this guy had a knife, he would have stabbed Cecil from the Jeep, and driven away.

When you have as much ethical disregard as this guy does, it doesn't matter what your tools are. If you really wanted to break into someone's house, you'd be surprised what you can accomplish with a screwdriver and a strong shoulder.

If we really wanted to reach this guy a lesson we'd take away his Jeep, not his crossbow. Let's see him try it again when he only gets one shot, and can't run away and let his prey bleed out.

Too bad we only brought a big enough first aid kit for the lion sad

Jul 29 15 07:48 pm Link

Photographer

Skydancer Photos

Posts: 22196

Santa Cruz, California, US

"forced to kill"  ≠  hunted for pleasure/sport

SAND DIAL wrote:
'Cause & Effect... Action & Reaction'.
The laws of the jungle. Kill or be killed.

I recall the 'mess' in Ohio where a significant number of Bengal Tigers were killed.
There arent that many left, worldwide;

Zanesville Animal Massacre Included 18 Rare Bengal Tigers
abcnews.go.com › US
Oct 19, 2011 - Cops in Zanesville, Ohio, were forced to shoot down as many as 56 ... so many Bengal tigers killed when they are on the verge of extinction.

Jul 29 15 07:51 pm Link

Model

Isis22

Posts: 3557

Muncie, Indiana, US

Robb Mann wrote:
According to the BBC poaching isn't his only hobby:

"Records from the Minnesota Board of Dentistry also show that Mr Palmer was the subject of a sexual harassment complaint which was settled in 2006.
A receptionist alleged that he had made indecent comments to her. Mr Palmer admitted no wrongdoing and agreed to pay out more than $127,000.."

I told everyone he looked creepy.

Jul 30 15 04:11 pm Link

Photographer

Tony From Syracuse

Posts: 2503

Syracuse, New York, US

I dont like some of the voices on the otherside though such as the head of PETA who calls for him to be hanged in zimbabwe.

in the end he did something illegal, but the many who are calling for HIS death by violent means in my opinion are mentally ill.
its like these celebritys and animal rights activists are riding a wave of insanity and feel free to let their inner lunatic come out..

he commited a crime...but it was a animal at the end of the day. lions and bears are hunted all the time. its just considered legal in other circumstances.

Jul 30 15 05:09 pm Link

Photographer

udor

Posts: 25255

New York, New York, US

SAND DIAL wrote:
Udor, I was not referring to the human but to a new male, new cubs. That Law.

Thanks to Drudge,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … babwe.html

Missed that post of yours!

Okay, got it, misread what you were saying.

I was probably thinking about those insecure trophy hunters who use that argument.

Sorry for my Pavlovian response! smile

Jul 30 15 06:26 pm Link

Photographer

Lightcraft Studio

Posts: 13682

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

ernst tischler wrote:
He needs to be sent back to Africa to face the music for his crime.

I don't think he's been charged with any crime, and I doubt he will be. The guides may suffer some consequences (financial) for the embarrassment, but Zimbabwe wants to hold on to what's left of it's crumbling tourism/hunting industry.

Zimbabwe is a fuster cluck of a country, and the death of an aged lion is the least of their concerns (and it's only a concern because of the negative press).

Jul 30 15 07:13 pm Link

Photographer

Zack Zoll

Posts: 6895

Glens Falls, New York, US

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
I dont like some of the voices on the otherside though such as the head of PETA who calls for him to be hanged in zimbabwe.

in the end he did something illegal, but the many who are calling for HIS death by violent means in my opinion are mentally ill.
its like these celebritys and animal rights activists are riding a wave of insanity and feel free to let their inner lunatic come out..

he commited a crime...but it was a animal at the end of the day. lions and bears are hunted all the time. its just considered legal in other circumstances.

This is someone who purposely(proven by the bait lure) and knowingly (assumed, from prior history) chose to break the law and kill a protected animal. This is not a man who just shot a lion. That is a very different thing ... and while I would still dissaprove, in that case I'd blame the system, and not him personally.

Having him hanged is just as immoral, you are correct. Eye for an eye, and all that.

But giving him the same crossbow he chose to use before and forcing him to fight fair ... I fail to see the ethical dilemma in that. Sure it's a death sentence just the same .... but according to him, that's what he did the first time. I just want a re-enactment. If he's the badass he wants to be, he'll be fine.

Jul 30 15 07:15 pm Link

Photographer

SAND DIAL

Posts: 6688

Santa Monica, California, US

This is from an Eco Blog,

Similarly every celebrity in Hollywood has rushed to publish some sappy tweet about the horrors of shooting a lion. In fact shooting old male lions is a good policy. It's good for the people - hunters and local natives - and it's good for the lions as a pride and individually.

Lions live differently from other big cats. Leopards and tigers are solitary hunters but lions are social beings.

The web says lions live about 14 years in the wild and Cecil was only 13. But that's for a female lion.

The males only live to about ten. Cecil was a very old male lion.

A pride of lions is a group of female hunters who are periodically captured by a pair of males usually brothers. The bigger less agile males are not well adapted for bringing down antelope. They are optimized for fighting with other male lions over sexual rights to the females.

After a few years as the dominant males of pride, another pair of male lions - younger and stronger - will evict them. Without a group of females to hunt for them the ousted males slowly decline. They starve to death or turn man eater.

Cecil had had his time on earth. He had passed on this genes. Nature was done with him. We shouldn't get all misty about old Cecil. Being a male lion is a good life - plenty of sex, the 'lions share' of the meat, and you just lounge around in the sun most of the time. But it doesn't last forever.

Nature is through with ten year old male lions, but human society still has a use for them. They provide income for the natives and sport for the 'white hunters'. Cecil provided news stories for the silly and sentimental too.

Cecil was not a house cat. He was a wild animal and he lived by wild animal rules. Dying in a hunt was a better end than he could have expected from nature. Cecil and his brother probably ran off another pair of males a few years ago and took over the pride. If you want to wax sympathetic over the plight of old lions - feel for them, not Cecil.
They starved to death and the bugs ate their carcasses with no Hollywood celebrities to mourn them.

Jul 30 15 09:41 pm Link

Photographer

SAND DIAL

Posts: 6688

Santa Monica, California, US

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
I dont like some of the voices on the otherside though such as the head of PETA who calls for him to be hanged in zimbabwe.

in the end he did something illegal, but the many who are calling for HIS death by violent means in my opinion are mentally ill.
its like these celebritys and animal rights activists are riding a wave of insanity and feel free to let their inner lunatic come out..

he commited a crime...but it was a animal at the end of the day. lions and bears are hunted all the time. its just considered legal in other circumstances.

PETA is about power and money [like many Orgs].
From the web,

Documents show PETA killed nearly 2,000 shelter animals ...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Animal-house-ho … ation-r...
Daily Mail
Feb 5, 2014 - Since that year, the shelter has put down over 31,000 animals, most of which ... In 2013, PETA killed 1,792 cats and dogs, an average of 5 per day. .... maybe then they'd see the kindness in putting these poor animals to sleep.

Jul 30 15 09:43 pm Link

Photographer

Tony From Syracuse

Posts: 2503

Syracuse, New York, US

Yep...good points. and seeing comment sections and new reporting on this story, I'm starting to sense a slow but steady pushback to the insane response to this story by more level headed people. I think people, myself included were initially sympathetic..but now am tiring of the lunatics calling for his death and the ruining of his career.

I will say one thing though....it appears by reports that they...or at least someone in the party tried to destroy the GPS tracker on the lion.
so its like they knew they screwed up and decided to try and cover it up. a panicked response....sure...but still it does kinda show a certain intent to deceive, so it would be hard to accept their side when they say that it was all just a mistake when they didnt just come clean to authorities..the same outcome was going to happen anyways.

I also wonder how such a popular animal could have escaped the notice of these guides. I wonder if the dentist explicitly said.."I want THAT one" I want to take down that popular lion. he just didnt forsee the aftermath.

Jul 30 15 10:07 pm Link

Photographer

Monolith Photography

Posts: 343

Phoenix, Arizona, US

I think as a society, our values and energy are misplaced.  All one has to do is look at current events.

https://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/oceandaze/Values2_zpsoceyulpw.jpg

Jul 31 15 11:04 am Link

Photographer

Bobby C

Posts: 2696

Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand

University of Oxford's youtube video.
Goodbye Cecil. sad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itRLP-VYXqY

Jul 31 15 01:01 pm Link

Photographer

Instinct Images

Posts: 23162

San Diego, California, US

I read today that there are more lions at zoos in the US than in the wild in Africa. That amazed me.

As the population of Africa continues to grow there will be less and less room for wild animals especially large predators.

Jul 31 15 01:17 pm Link

Photographer

SAND DIAL

Posts: 6688

Santa Monica, California, US

Instinct, I have read that there are lots of 'pet' [cough] lions. As of 20 years ago there were lots of lions in Africa.

Remember the Ohio incident when 19 Tigers were shot? That was like 1% of the Tigers [Bengals?] in the world.

Jul 31 15 07:20 pm Link

Body Painter

Monad Studios

Posts: 10131

Santa Rosa, California, US

Another perspective:

In Zimbabwe we don't cry for lions
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/opini … lions.html

Aug 04 15 06:43 pm Link

Photographer

Tony From Syracuse

Posts: 2503

Syracuse, New York, US

wow great read above! unfortunately too late for the dentist I'm afraid. the mentally ill have already have worked their craziness on his life.

Aug 04 15 06:46 pm Link

Photographer

Brooklyn Bridge Images

Posts: 13200

Brooklyn, New York, US

Monad Studios wrote:
Another perspective:

In Zimbabwe we don't cry for lions
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/opini … lions.html

Excellent find
The main point I found pointing out the hypocrisy of all this.
"shaking our heads, wondering why Americans care more about African animals than about African people."

Aug 04 15 08:00 pm Link

Photographer

udor

Posts: 25255

New York, New York, US

Monolith Photography wrote:
I think as a society, our values and energy are misplaced.  All one has to do is look at current events.

https://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/oceandaze/Values2_zpsoceyulpw.jpg

I have no idea who the pretty blonde is on the left.

The embryo probably stands  for the stupid pro-life idiocy and the lion of course for the killing-for
-small-penis-compensation debate.

What else is your point, Mr. Monolith and what am I missing?!

Aug 04 15 08:28 pm Link

Photographer

Brooklyn Bridge Images

Posts: 13200

Brooklyn, New York, US

More reactions from the people who actually live there
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/03/africa/zi … index.html

Aug 05 15 05:52 pm Link