Jerry Nemeth wrote:
I have a replica pistol in one of my photos.

That is a good option. Also, have the gun made inoperable, if a semiauto, which is simply done by removing the firing pin. Any person able to disassemble it for cleaning will be able to do it.

In most shooting sports where there is live fire and the shooter is not from a static positon all the time, there always a 2nd person overseeing the shooter, the Range Officer or Safety Officer, depending of the specific sport. The main function of the Range Office/Safety Officer is to make sure that the gun comes unloaded to the start position, is loaded safely and after completing shooting it is unloaded, holstered and locked properly. In no circumstance a shooter may remove a gun from the holster, even unloaded at any time during a match unless at presence and by command of the Range Officer / Safety Officer.

Similar, in a photo shooting (no pun intended) a 2nd person should be responsible for handling any gun at the studio, checking it before handling to anyone for photo usage, getting it back and keeping it under his/her control when not in use. The person receiving the gun should also be briefed on gun safety before be allowed to handle it.

Again, I would use a replica whenever it would be possible.

Marco R wrote:
That is a good option. Also, have the gun made inoperable, if a semiauto, which is simply done by removing the firing pin. Any person able to disassemble it for cleaning will be able to do it.

In most shooting sports where there is live fire and the shooter is not from a static positon all the time, there always a 2nd person overseeing the shooter, the Range Officer or Safety Officer, depending of the specific sport. The main function of the Range Office/Safety Officer is to make sure that the gun comes unloaded to the start position, is loaded safely and after completing shooting it is unloaded, holstered and locked properly. In no circumstance a shooter may remove a gun from the holster, even unloaded at any time during a match unless at presence and by command of the Range Officer / Safety Officer.

Similar, in a photo shooting (no pun intended) a 2nd person should be responsible for handling any gun at the studio, checking it before handling to anyone for photo usage, getting it back and keeping it under his/her control when not in use.The person receiving the gun should also be briefed on gun safety before be allowed to handle it.

Again, I would use a replica whenever it would be possible.

Good information.  The safety officer, sometimes called an "Armorer" in the movie business, should be present on the set at all times that a functional firearm is present.  The safety officer's job is to make sure that all weapons are "cleared" prior to being handed to models for shooting photos, movies etc.  At times that weapons are present but not being used in a scene, they should be in possession of and under control of the safety officer.  Great point about not pointing a functional gun at a model, actor or actress.  Even a blank can do serious damage and/or cause the death of a member of the cast or crew.   Scenes can be choreographed to that no person is in the line of fire of a real weapon.  Airsoft replicas are pretty much indistinguishable from the real thing and are by far preferable to using real, modern weapons.  I use black powder blanks in the production of Westerns.  It's important to realize that burning particles of powder are capable of causing injury as far as 25 yards down range in black powder blanks.

FFantastique wrote:
I did some searches but was unable to find any threads that address gun safety at a shoot.

Well a replica that fires blanks would probably be your safest bet. I'm looking into buying one of these

FFantastique wrote:
...First, what reports are there, if any, of accidental discharges at shoots

Surely you jest!  Guess you have been out of the loop for a lit' while... a.k.a. missed the $14-million movie "The Crow," produced by Edward Pressman and Jeff Most...

Actor Brandon Lee, the 28-year-old son of the late kung fu star Bruce Lee, was killed by simulated gunfire during filming of "The Crow"...

Enough said...

FFantastique wrote:
...What safety procedures do you use, or should one use...

Direct quote from my NRA Safe Pistol Course

Never point a weapon's muzzle at anything you do not want to destroy

This was enumerated again in the NRA Basics of Personal Protection in the Home, The Basics of Personal Protection Outside the Home, and The Basics of Rifle Shooting... My NRA firearms instructor was a Marine Veteran who served 20 years as a sniper instructor.   btw, my studio is only minutes away from the NRA headquarters in Fairfax, VA.

I personally recommend the aforementioned course before obtaining a firearm.  There are some things that simply don't lend themselves to being self taught... 

FFantastique wrote:
Anything else that best practices would suggest?

Speak with the agent for your professional liability insurance policy on the matters of having firearms on set and heed their guidance...  You do have professional liability insurance, correct?

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
I use black powder blanks in the production of Westerns.  It's important to realize that burning particles of powder are capable of causing injury as far as 25 yards down range in black powder blanks.

I've never used a firearm on a photoshoot but my real job is in movies.  One movie a few years ago had *heavy* automatic weapons use. Like 10 guys in a room delivering sustained fully automatic fire at another guy in the room (fun fact.. the armorers told me we spent over $100,000 just in ammunition in 8 days of shooting).  Well part of the shooting was to capture the one guy's POV.. which meant putting a steady cam operator in the line of fire. Many safety precautions later in he went.  Many takes (over many days) and he was fine.. until one time.. when a shard of a shell casing split off and shot out of the barrel.. and into his gut.  It only penetrated less than an inch but it took him out of commission for a couple of days and if he hadn't been wearing as much gear as he was and/or the shard headed towards his face rather than his torso then the result could have been much, much worse.

Deep Visions wrote:
Well a replica that fires blanks would probably be your safest bet. I'm looking into buying one of these

Total misinformation.  Blanks often have "wads".  I have a .44 cal hole in a wall in one of my sets that was caused by wadding in a blank.  Blanks can cause serious injury or even death.

D a v i d s o n wrote:
I think you are all going way overboard to out do the each other how safe you would be , it's  a gun with out bull it's it's a chunk of Steel, being PC correct is just silly, dear god get a grip a blade causes more injuries and death than a gun...

You sound like an accident waiting to happen.  Over confidence and cockiness are what kill in situations like this... yes even with knives.

There's no such thing as being "too safe" there's being safe and being unsafe. That's it.

D a v i d s o n wrote:
I think you are all going way overboard to out do the each other how safe you would be , it's  a gun with out bull it's it's a chunk of Steel, being PC correct is just silly, dear god get a grip a blade causes more injuries and death than a gun...

What a idiotic attitude.  Being safe with guns, particularly at a photoshoot or on a movie set where most participants are unfamilar with firearms is just good common sense, not "PC".   People like you give responsible shooters a bad name.  Your cavalier attitude definitely does not represent the feelings of most shooters.

Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:
There is no reason to use a real gun on a photoshoot, none. 

I have two images in my current series (based on old pulp covers) that make use of guns and have several more planned.  I do not allow a real gun on set.  The Thompson submachine gun used in one is a led filled prop and the Colt .45 is a BB gun that is made from an actual colt (so real in every aspect that I will not give it to my girlfriends son as it is totally indistinguishable from my real colt unless you stare straight down the barrel.  Materials, weight, action - it's all exactly the same.

If you search the web you will find no shortage of prop/air guns for use in photoshoots.

Indeed.  And if muzzle flash is needed then that's what compositing is for.  Get some images of real muzzle flash (preferably on black) and comp it in. Easy peasy.  If you need interative lighting then you can do that on set as well.  We do this all the time in movies (mainly because muzzle flash is actually very difficult to capture at 24 frames per second but also because in some cases they can't use live fire) so it's really a no brainer.

Wye wrote:

You sound like an accident waiting to happen.  Over confidence and cockiness are what kill in situations like this... yes even with knives.

There's no such thing as being "too safe" there's being safe and being unsafe. That's it.

Yes, this!

Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:
There is no reason to use a real gun on a photoshoot, none. 

I have two images in my current series (based on old pulp covers) that make use of guns and have several more planned.  I do not allow a real gun on set.  The Thompson submachine gun used in one is a led filled prop and the Colt .45 is a BB gun that is made from an actual colt (so real in every aspect that I will not give it to my girlfriends son as it is totally indistinguishable from my real colt unless you stare straight down the barrel.  Materials, weight, action - it's all exactly the same.

If you search the web you will find no shortage of prop/air guns for use in photoshoots.

Wye wrote:
Indeed.  And if muzzle flash is needed then that's what compositing is for.  Get some images of real muzzle flash (preferably on black) and comp it in. Easy peasy.  If you need interative lighting then you can do that on set as well.  We do this all the time in movies (mainly because muzzle flash is actually very difficult to capture at 24 frames per second but also because in some cases they can't use live fire) so it's really a no brainer.

Yep:



If you look at what the actual laws are for having firearms on a set, in all likelihood, you'll have to hire a cop for the day at the very least and have special insurance.  It's just not worth it for something that takes an hour in post.  Not to mention the fact that you will get a better result (and I say this as someone who has photographed actual guns shooting).

D a v i d s o n wrote:
I think you are all going way overboard to out do the each other how safe you would be , it's  a gun with out bull it's it's a chunk of Steel, being PC correct is just silly, dear god get a grip a blade causes more injuries and death than a gun...

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
What a idiotic attitude.  Being safe with guns, particularly at a photoshoot or on a movie set where most participants are unfamilar with firearms is just good common sense, not "PC".   People like you give responsible shooters a bad name.  Your cavalier attitude definitely does not represent the feelings of most shooters.

Give Davidson a break!

Don't you know about 'dem ricocheting blades when they are accidentally flung across the room?

Btw. my buddy is a gunsmith, ex-green beret, Vietnam vet and NRA member and still an expert marksman... we talk a lot about guns and gun safety, despite me being on the "guns are not necessary" side... and he'd get ballistic if he'd listen to Davidson's attitude!

Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:
The Thompson submachine gun used in one is a led filled prop and the Colt .45 is a BB gun that is made from an actual colt (so real in every aspect that I will not give it to my girlfriends son as it is totally indistinguishable from my real colt unless you stare straight down the barrel.  Materials, weight, action - it's all exactly the same.

The replica's (air soft and others) are so accurate that manufacturers are required by law to incorporate bright orange muzzles on them to (hopefully) avert kids playing with them being mistaken for having the real thing and being shot by law enforcement.  There is at least one fairly infamous case of a teen being shot by police while brandishing a replica weapon.

Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:
If you look at what the actual laws are for having firearms on a set, in all likelihood, you'll have to hire a cop for the day at the very least and have special insurance.  It's just not worth it for something that takes an hour in post.  Not to mention the fact that you will get a better result (and I say this as someone who has photographed actual guns shooting).

There is no federal law specifically directed at regulation of firearms on a set as long as the firearms are legally owned.  Most states do not have regulations directed specifically at the presence of firearms on a photo shoot location or movie set.  NY has very strict gun laws (many of them are probably unconstitutional) so I can't speak to what may or may not be the case in NY.   So, it is unlikely that in areas other than NY, Chicago, Detroit, DC/Baltimore, and other areas with restrictive gun laws, that it would be necessary to hire a law enforcement person in order to have real firearms on a set.

As a certified Range Safety Officer, I personally no longer use or allow real cartridge firing weapons to be used as props on my photoshoot locations or movie sets.  Simply not worth the risk.  I do use real replicas in my Westerns, but they are "cap and ball" weapons.  No caps, lead bullets/balls, or powder allowed unless it's a shoot where black powder effects (smoke and fire) are required.  Then, no live actors or actresses are allowed downrange from where blanks are being fired.

Ahhhhh.  I do love the smell of black powder smoke in the morning.

FFantastique wrote:
I was at a studio Atlanta where the manager reported that the military training video involved weapons and that the soldier accidentally discharged a round into the green screen (fortunately no harm done to humans).

Military personnel in the UK would not have loaded weapons in that situation unless, again, it was under very strict conditions. Loaded weapons away from active duty and designated training grounds - No.

Light and Lens Studio wrote:

Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:
The Thompson submachine gun used in one is a led filled prop and the Colt .45 is a BB gun that is made from an actual colt (so real in every aspect that I will not give it to my girlfriends son as it is totally indistinguishable from my real colt unless you stare straight down the barrel.  Materials, weight, action - it's all exactly the same.

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
The replica's (air soft and others) are so accurate that manufacturers are required by law to incorporate bright orange muzzles on them to (hopefully) avert kids playing with them being mistaken for having the real thing and being shot by law enforcement.  There is at least one fairly infamous case of a teen being shot by police while brandishing a replica weapon.

This is a video demonstration of the BB gun I purchased for the above photo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikCiN4NFbGY

Here is the model I purchased on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Tanfoglio-358003- … B005WIA0EQ

No orange muzzle.  The Thompson submachine gun did have an orange plug inside the barrel, not visible from the side.  Neither was an airsoft gun.

California also has laws pertaining to guns on film/photo sets, but you're right, I am not familiar with the laws in Florida on this issue, but seeing how much filming goes on down there, I would't be surprised if they had similar legislation.

Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:
Here is the model I purchased on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Tanfoglio-358003- … B005WIA0EQ

No orange muzzle.  The Thompson submachine gun did have an orange plug inside the barrel, not visible from the side.  Neither was an airsoft gun.

California also has laws pertaining to guns on film/photo sets, but you're right, I am not familiar with the laws in Florida on this issue, but seeing how much filming goes on down there, I would't be surprised if they had similar legislation.

It appears that the "BB" guns have found some sort of loophole in the law requiring the orange muzzle plug requirement.  That is sad. 

If I were purchasing a replica, I'd go for the airsoft model.  Both models have a projectile muzzle velocity in excess of 300 fps.  A direct hit to the eye with either the BB or the airsoft projectile could cause blindness.  The airsoft might have a little wider margin of safety since the projectile is plastic, has a lower density and greater cross sectional area, hence it loses velocity more rapidly. 

I've had both crew and cast get carried away with props on movie sets.  Not good, even with airsoft if they somehow get loaded.  So, I give all the airsoft BB's that come with the weapons to my grandson to use in supervised airsoft "battles"

Nothing is foolproof unless you eliminate the fools.

udor wrote:

D a v i d s o n wrote:
I think you are all going way overboard to out do the each other how safe you would be , it's  a gun with out bull it's it's a chunk of Steel, being PC correct is just silly, dear god get a grip a blade causes more injuries and death than a gun...

Give Davidson a break!

Don't you know about 'dem ricocheting blades when they are accidentally flung across the room?

Btw. my buddy is a gunsmith, ex-green beret, Vietnam vet and NRA member and still an expert marksman... we talk a lot about guns and gun safety, despite me being on the "guns are not necessary" side... and he'd get ballistic if he'd listen to Davidson's attitude!

I stand by what I said a gun without a bullet is a chunk of steel.  And BTW my buddy bla bla dosen't mean a thing, week thing to say reminds me of "Oh i'm not raciest I have a black friend" . Also for the PC safety patrol, I'm not here to represent anyone or their feelings, just my answer to the post.

Wye wrote:

You sound like an accident waiting to happen.  Over confidence and cockiness are what kill in situations like this... yes even with knives.

There's no such thing as being "too safe" there's being safe and being unsafe. That's it.

I wouldn't say I was cocky, Confident yes but not over there's no such thing as being "too confident" there's being confident and being unconfident. That's it.

D a v i d s o n wrote:
I stand by what I said a gun without a bullet is a chunk of steel.  And BTW my buddy bla bla dosen't mean a thing, week thing to say reminds me of "Oh i'm not raciest I have a black friend" . Also for the PC safety patrol, I'm not here to represent anyone or their feelings, just my answer to the post.

Since when is being safe and careful with lives and property being PC?  What a goofy use of that term.

And since you haven't seemed to notice from the discussion.  The issue isn't the properties of a gun when it's not loaded.  It's knowing for certain that it isn't loaded and being able to verify that at a glance while still having the weapon look realistic. Accidents happen.  Actors and models don't always know how to see if a gun is safe (unloaded). People get careless.

An abundance of caution is warranted when someone's life is on the line.  You seem to think that this is about being anti gun.. how silly. This is about keeping people safe.

Wye wrote:

Since when is being safe and careful with lives and property being PC?  What a goofy use of that term.

And since you haven't seemed to notice from the discussion.  The issue isn't the properties of a gun when it's not loaded.  It's knowing for certain that it isn't loaded and being able to verify that at a glance while still having the weapon look realistic. Accidents happen.  Actors and models don't always know how to see if a gun is safe (unloaded). People get careless.

An abundance of caution is warranted when someone's life is on the line.  You seem to think that this is about being anti gun.. how silly. This is about keeping people safe.

The first part of making a gun safe is unloading it and not having the amo anywhere near it . The 2nd is to show visibly to model it's not loaded. beyond that is getting a bit to much to go any further .

D a v i d s o n wrote:
The first part of making a gun safe is unloading it and not having the amo anywhere near it . The 2nd is to show visibly to model it's not loaded. beyond that is getting a bit to much to go any further .

The third is making sure that gun is always secured on set. Maybe you only shoot with a model. I shoot with multiple models and a crew, some of whome are just hired guns (so to speak). Sometimes we are loading and unloading a truck filled with gear and set pieces and props. The last thing I need is a real gun to go missing. It's just stupid and irresponsible to have a real firearm on set unless absolutely necessary.

Wye wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the armorers on my film sets would be happy to be considered "too PC" if the alternative is to have someone injured by one of their weapons.

Whether on a movie set or a photo shoot, this seems the reasonable position. Being sensitive to the concerns of others applies to the image that results. Everyone should leave the set or studio as they arrived and not need medical attention or a coroner.

D a v i d s o n wrote:
Give Davidson a break!

Don't you know about 'dem ricocheting blades when they are accidentally flung across the room?

Btw. my buddy is a gunsmith, ex-green beret, Vietnam vet and NRA member and still an expert marksman... we talk a lot about guns and gun safety, despite me being on the "guns are not necessary" side... and he'd get ballistic if he'd listen to Davidson's attitude!

You are living proof that people do not learn by "osmosis" from being in the presence of someone knowledgeable about firearms (or anything else for that matter).  I think it might be safer to go bird hunting with Dick Cheney than be around you if there is a weapon in the room. 

D a v i d s o n wrote:
I stand by what I said a gun without a bullet is a chunk of steel.  And BTW my buddy bla bla dosen't mean a thing, week thing to say reminds me of "Oh i'm not raciest I have a black friend" . Also for the PC safety patrol, I'm not here to represent anyone or their feelings, just my answer to the post.

Well, I'll be damned.  Even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then.  Best thing you've said.