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Winter blend gasoline
Thought I was imagining this, but its real. Gasoline is different in winter, even in California where we don't have a winter like other places do. According to what I just read online, winter gas apparently has more butane in it, making it cheaper to produce. However, Butane has less energy so our vehicles get worse gas mileage, but gas prices are cheaper. I'm pretty sure about this time of year, every year, I start to think my car runs like shit. I feel like my engine is about to blow up because I'm always racing around like an idiot. (Don't judge.) Or is it just because the gasoline sucks? My car is tweeked and highly sensitive. I'm going to blame it on the gas. Now science-y smart people of the MM forum, I ask you this: What can i do to make the gasoline suck less? Can I add an octane booster or something else to stabilize it? Do you think gas from a racetrack would be a winter blend? Nov 27 15 12:48 am Link All US gasoline has like a 10-15% methane blend in it, at least in the lower 48. Plus other additives. Yes, the methane has less 'power' and effectively lowers the octane rating. Great for those of us with euro-spec cars designed to run on real gasoline... Octane boosters might help a little bit. I use Seafoam in my engine to combat the increased carbon deposits left from the lower combustion temps. (Thanks, EPA.) Nov 27 15 02:23 am Link Paolo Diavolo wrote: WV adds .20c to the price of a Gallon of Winter blend Gasoline Nov 27 15 03:02 am Link The octane measurement of gasoline stays the same. If it says 91 on the pump, it's 91 Summer and Winter. How the octane level is reached is dependent on the additives used in the mix. Winter blend generally has less power making additives so mileage can suffer. Nov 27 15 03:37 am Link Paulo, I don't thinking you are imagining it running worse on winter blends. Our distance car is a Prius which has a pretty accurate readout of the MPG. It does vary a lot by regions in CA as well. In this hot town, it runs about 43.4 MPG. In LA, about 45.7, and in San Fran it has broke 50 MPG which I thought very odd. Some of it may be the A/C (Hot as heck here, and sometimes LA too.). Could be the moisture content of the air as well. Another is the oxygenated fuel and additives the refineries dump into the tankers for whatever stations they go to. One motorcycle we used to have had an antenna that shook like mad. I put some 110 octane racing fuel into that bike for fun (About $17/gallon here now for my race bike.) and it smoothed the antenna shaking right out. You could pay for the higher octane, but it will cost you too. Some motorcycle shop owner uses a 50:50 mix of racing fuel and high octane Shell in his bikes and claim they idle a lot smooth, but it does cost a lot to do so at almost $15/gallon on the mix. He sells the race fuel at $85 per five gallon can so he likely gets a break someplace for the cans himself. Nov 27 15 07:12 am Link  (Winter Blend) Nov 27 15 07:50 am Link Anyone remember Ethyl? Nov 27 15 08:10 am Link I hate to ruin anyone's dreams about Petrol. It is all the same. They..The refineries ...all they do is place packets of spices...to make 87 proof and so on. Gas is Gas...no matter how much Spin they do. Don't believe the freaking Hype. Nov 27 15 08:14 am Link This has some info on ethanol added to the fuels in various parts of CA. http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/faq.htm I almost bought a Ducati Steetfighter S in 2009 until I heard of their plastic gas tanks warping. Led to a class action against Duati too: http://deformedfueltanks.com/ Then it became a major issue with other plastic tanks out of Europe warping on a lot of motorcycles. KTM dealer showed me some sitting in his showroom warping and paint bubbling up. How much damage was being done to the plastics and what went on later with the injectors clogging was a worry and speculation was the ethanol strength in USA. I know Sea Foam was mentioned above and I've used it for injector cleaning which seemed to help the idling too. Another issue is sometimes water getting into tanks. Anyone who flies knows about the check and drain needed for pre-flights to see if water is present in Av-gas. I've seen it when I've drained gas from my motorcycle tanks too. Maybe a bad gas station owner adding water to his tanks for profit, or an angry employee? When we had a Saturn dealer, there was one morning the place was surrounded by a dozen plus tow trucks and Saturns hanging off them. Sales manager had a fit and tried to get them all Nov 27 15 08:56 am Link ernst tischler wrote:
Nov 27 15 09:28 am Link thanks everyone for your replies. since the butane in winter blend lowers the energy, I guess what I'm asking is: can i put something in my gas tank that will bring the energy back up? I understand the octane rating is still 91 even for winter blend. that's what my car is tuned for. not sure an octane booster would do anything and I can't run e85. Nov 27 15 11:27 am Link If the Car is tuned to run 91 run 91. Nov 27 15 12:00 pm Link Paolo Diavolo wrote: Clearly one of these other guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there is any measurable benefit in running higher octane than the car wants to see. Not it doing it regularly, anyway. Nov 27 15 01:30 pm Link 51 Imaging wrote: It is tuned for California 91. Nov 27 15 01:52 pm Link Paolo Diavolo wrote: I am not a Doctor..but I play a Doctor on TV...in the hit series...The Doctor and The Hype. Nov 27 15 01:59 pm Link Paolo Diavolo wrote: Did not know Ford Pinto's were Tweeked and Highly Sensitive. Nov 27 15 02:00 pm Link DOUGLASFOTOS wrote: my "pinto" is. Nov 27 15 03:25 pm Link Zack Zoll wrote: I ran premium in my Titan for almost 10 years, figuring it was better. I switched over to regular a year or so ago and my milage actually increased. Nov 28 15 09:39 am Link Paolo Diavolo wrote: You just now heard about this? They have been doing this for many, many years now. Nov 28 15 09:44 am Link WR Photographics wrote: Premium gas may not be premium for your vehicle. Read the owners manual, most likely you'll find out that it says not to run Premium gas in your truck. I drive a Nissan XTerra and it says specifically to only use lower octane gas. I also ride a Honda VTX 1300 motorcycle and in the manual for that it emphasizes not to use any premium grade gasolines at all, that the motor was designed for 87 octane and anything higher than that could do long-term damage to the bike. Nov 28 15 09:48 am Link Paolo Diavolo wrote: Clean your air filter. Nov 28 15 11:43 am Link Mortonovich wrote: I cleaned my air fliter in early October... Nov 28 15 07:49 pm Link WR Photographics wrote: Modern engines are so advanced lately that they are tuned specifically for certain octane fuels. If your motor is tuned for 87 octane, putting 93 in it won't do much. If your vehicle requires premium fuel, that's how you're going to get the maximum rated HP and torque out of it. Using a different fuel probably won't damage your engine over its life, but it won't operate as intended. Nov 29 15 12:37 am Link Paolo Diavolo wrote: Cooler Air is denser so You're getting more in lower temps. The Motor is starving for Fuel or 'leaning out'. Nov 29 15 01:52 am Link 51 Imaging wrote: this is a good point. Nov 29 15 11:42 am Link I have never seen such confusion and lack of knowledge about gasoline in one place!! First, it does not contain "butane". Butane at atmospheric pressure and temperatures is a gas", it would evaporate completely in a automotive tank. Gas also does not contain "methane" it is another "gas" that evaporates easily! "Methanol" is commonalty used as a race car fuel BUT is not mixed with normal gasoline because a small percentage of water would make it drop out of the mixture and drop to the bottom of the tank (in very small quantities it is used as "dry gas" to keep condensation in the tank from freezing in winter. It is largely obsolete because it is highly corrosive to the materials in a modern fuel system. Ethanol is the additive that is required in all US gasoline currently at a minimum of 10%. It was supposed to stretch the amount of available gasoline AND as an additive to improve emission levels. It also acts as an "octane improver", it became the cheapest one to replace "tetraethyl lead" which was banned as well as not compatible with "catalytic convertors" mandated to limit emissions. Octane ratings have nothing to do with how much power an engine produces EXCEPT that it must be sufficient to prevent knocking caused by detonation in the cylinder. What you see on the pump is a comparison of a given fuel to the test results in a test engine running on pure "isooctane" a chemical that is given a rating of 1.00 When you see an "octane rating" of 91 it means the fuel test at .91 resistance to knock in the test. Using gasoline with an octane rating much higher than actually required just waste money. What "winter" gas is blended for is to be easier to vaporize under cold conditions, making it easier starting and more efficient. What effects the power and economy of a particular blend of gasoline ("gasoline" is not an pure chemical but a blend of many) is it's "BTU" per pound rating. Winter blends and high octane pump gas tend to have LESS BTU's per pound due to the percentage of chemicals that are blended into the product which while producing the desired traits for which they are used produce less heat and therefore are less efficient. The biggest effect of these "seasonal blends" of gas is the cost that are incurred because of nothing but Government interference!! Currently companies must produce over 200 different blends, not just because of weather but it is specific to each area and the requirement of adding high priced ethanol!! (which by the way can also upset the fuel systems of engines not modified for it!!!) Nov 29 15 01:57 pm Link ernst tischler wrote: Nov 29 15 05:18 pm Link Paolo, do you have access to aviation fuel? That's made to more pure standards. I think Chevron gas is refined to higher standards in general. Maybe Shell is too. Compared to ARCO, for example, which is reputed to have more additives. DISCLAIMER: I'm not a chemist and I'm not in the refined oil products distribution business, so it's a little hard to sort out the propaganda and rumors. I have seen the Chevron truck topping off station tanks of no-name independents that sell their "non-Chevron" gas for lower prices. That's something to consider. Costco is the cheapest. I don't know who is their source of gas. Nov 29 15 05:21 pm Link Richard Karlsen wrote: oh but it does according to every article i read. article linked above wrote: http://www.atlasoil.com/Blog/Whats-the- … d-Gasoline this article wrote: plus i can find like a million others that say theres butane in this shit. Nov 29 15 05:24 pm Link Click Hamilton wrote: is that the same as Avgas? Nov 29 15 05:29 pm Link Paolo Diavolo wrote: You are probably right. Here is some detail about that. Nov 29 15 05:35 pm Link Click Hamilton wrote: haha! i was JUST reading that. Nov 29 15 05:36 pm Link A couple years ago I was upgrading my old Corvette hot rod engine from the late 60's. Rather than rebuild my vintage 780 CFM dual feed Holley, I decided to buy a new, smaller 650 CFM Edelbrock that is built for today's gas formulations. Together with an upgraded electronic ignition, It runs beautifully. Since the upgrade I've only used high octane. In 1969 we didn't have things like catalytic converters or oxygen sensors. Maybe I should try ARCO regular?  PS - that bed frame in the back is gone. Nov 29 15 05:46 pm Link very cool. I have the opposite problem, trying to make an old hotrod out of a newer car. why ARCO? do they have something cool that other brands dont? Nov 29 15 06:35 pm Link Paolo Diavolo wrote: Oh, FOR SURE those K&Ns get crummy over time. I don't care what K&N says, they definitely do not Nov 29 15 08:21 pm Link Paolo Diavolo wrote: Richard Karlsen wrote: oh but it does according to every article i read. article linked above wrote: http://www.atlasoil.com/Blog/Whats-the- … d-Gasoline You are misreading what is said in the article. PURE Butane has an RVP that will let it boil off at normal atmospheric pressure no matter what! Gas is made of many compounds, compounds containing butane may be some of them but it can not be blended in in a pure state. It has been 50 plus years since I took chem. and auto fuels/ lube classes but those facts don't change. I seem to remember it is "Isomers" (? spelling) of butane that can be used. If I recall correctly one of these was MTBE (methel terciary butal ether) (again spelling?) a compound used instead of lead. This too I believe was banned do to possible contamination of ground water in case of tank leaks because it caused cancer. Gasoline is not any one compound, it is a wide variety of mixed compounds that are constantly changing dependent on government regulations of the moment. How fast the fuel burns does not make it efficient or not it is the BTU's per pound. BTU's per pound is completely dependent on the total content of the blend. Nov 30 15 09:24 am Link Seems there is a lot of confusion about "AVGAS" also. It is specifically blended for aircraft but works well in "OLD" automotive engines. Pre 70's auto engines used nothing but leaded fuel. TEL not only was a quick and inexpensive way to raise octane but it also acted as a lubricant for valves and seats. When unleaded fuel became the thing to use, different valves and "Stellite" (spelling?) valve seats became necessary, both types of gas were available for a while. Lead was outlawed in normal motor fuel first with the claim it cause brain damage to children and later because of the mandated use of catalytic converters. "OLD" Avgas contained a lot of lead percentage wise, to the point it was always stressed that it could be extremely harmful just getting it on your skin! Running old motors and antiques now requires valve seats to be changed or additives to be used. Old chain saws and small motors were very sensitive to running unleaded gas until they finally were modified also over time. When the emissions rules started coming in, lead was still used but in much lower percentages. Mid to later 70's made racing fuel much more expensive (since it was still blended with lead and sold for off road use only). Two types were available LL80-90 and LL100-120. For aircraft use they have 2 octane ratings, one for "cruise" and one for "full rich". In the good old days we were able to pull the race car on the trailer right up to the pump in line with a bunch of piper cubs! LOL, don't think that will happen any more!! It has been 35-40 years since "leaded" was available, I would bet most drivers on the rad today have never even seen a "leaded pump"!! Nov 30 15 09:56 am Link Richard Karlsen wrote: its still available. Nov 30 15 11:06 pm Link Paolo Diavolo wrote: ^ that's the good stuff. Dec 01 15 03:44 am Link Paolo Diavolo wrote: WoW, haven't seen it at the pump in a lot of years. Cam II was available but pumps marked off road use only, last time I saw it was a bargain $5 per gallon! Dirt tracks here do have some for the lower class cars but it is only in barrels. Even top NASCAR classes have gone lead free. Would love just to get a wiff of CAMII or H&H again, had its own particular smell!! Dec 01 15 05:51 am Link |
