Shadow Dancer wrote:
OK, I can understand how the photographer would feel violated.

Everybody is different, I would not care. That does not place a judgement on the situation.

To me, "the magic" would be the transformation.

It is his right to be upset in this instance.

Apologize, take the photo down and let it go.

The selfie was AFTER hair and makeup so there is no transformation shown.

It's an unwritten rule you don't do this. Makeup artists get in trouble all the time for not asking permission. I feel the model should ask permission too.

Isis22 wrote:

The selfie was AFTER hair and makeup so there is no transformation shown.

It's an unwritten rule you don't do this. Makeup artists get in trouble all the time for not asking permission. I feel the model should ask permission too.

Thanks for the clarity and I totally agree with you about sneaking a selfie at an arranged shoot like this. Not a classy move on the model's part. I think if I were the photographer that I would have tried to handle this privately though, Facebook is a shitshow just waiting to happen. One bad does not justify another.

KristinaBz wrote:
A photographer on a Facebook modeling page posted a very passive aggressive post upset that all this time was put into the shoot/make up/ lighting and the model posted a selfie after hair and make up and how she ruined the "mood/concept"
From what I gathered, it was a TF shoot and nothing stating she couldn't in the release. Others commented on how its just unprofessional of the model and its just a known "rule". I just found it interesting that this photographer got so upset.
I'd like to hear other thoughts on this.

I think it is common courtesy to ask permission before posting any bts shots , (and most definitely,) while you are actually on the set and the shoot hasn't even started yet.

So, I don't think the photographer being upset was passive aggressive I think it was selfish and one sided of you to post the bts shot before the shoot even happened.

I'm with the photographer here.
Jen

KristinaBz wrote:
This is the photographers post:
"You have the perfect wardrobe, 2 hours in hair and makeup,  set and props are spot on and the photog has the lighting just right, so you post a "behind the scenes" cell phone selfie before the shoot even starts.  And the magic is gone!"

I don't see anything passive aggressive about this.

However, as for the magic being gone, well, yeah, you showed your hand that you weren't in this for everyone on set but, that this was your own little world.

Jen
p.s. edit, so, def apologize and take the picture down and next time, ask first.

Jen B wrote:

I think it is common courtesy to ask permission before posting any bts shots , (and most definitely,) while you are actually on the set and the shoot hasn't even started yet.

So, I don't think the photographer being upset was passive aggressive I think it
was selfish and one sided of you to post the bts shot before the shoot even happened.

I'm with the photographer here.
Jen

I am not the model in this scenario. It was a post on Facebook.

KristinaBz wrote:
A photographer on a Facebook modeling page posted a very passive aggressive post upset that all this time was put into the shoot/make up/ lighting and the model posted a selfie after hair and make up and how she ruined the "mood/concept"
From what I gathered, it was a TF shoot and nothing stating she couldn't in the release. Others commented on how its just unprofessional of the model and its just a known "rule". I just found it interesting that this photographer got so upset.
I'd like to hear other thoughts on this.

Personally, I don't think the photographer was wrong for being upset. Regardless of the fact that it was a TF* shoot it is in my opinion disrespectful to post behind the scenes images of a shoot without explicit permission or purpose. When I handle art direction or run point on a shoot I let everyone know that they're not allowed to take these types of images OR that if they do they need to get the okay from everyone else whose work is involved AND that they can't post them until the edited images go live.

Laura UnBound wrote:
Oh Christ, the magic.
that apparently can't hold its own against a selfie.

LOL.

Laura UnBound wrote:
Oh Christ, the magic.
that apparently can't hold its own against a selfie.

Haha it was a pretty good selfie.

Mike Collins wrote:
What is it with people and their damn cell phone photos?  Just experience the thing happening right now.  There is no need to take a photo of EVERYTHING!!!  I'm a photographer and I rarely whip out my cell phone to take a photo.  Of anything!  I'm there.  I see it.  I'm experiencing it.  I'll remember it. 

Trust me, nobody really cares what your doing, eating, seeing, etc.  They really don't.

This would be equal to constantly inviting people over to your house to show your vacation slides/movies like they did way back when.  YAWN!!!!!

I think it's stupid too. But it's the culture.

SMART business people embrace it. Wouldn't you love if Gigi Hadid tweeted a photo like this from your shoot? It's free publicity, and you don't even have to do anything to get it.

All this anger is primarily coming from people that think fashion photography is anything other than a business. Sure your vision matters, but it is a business first and foremost, even if the shots are just going into a gallery.

Nobody ever succeeded in the photo world without business acumen. Without a business-minded person getting involved, Vivian Meier's work would still be in that storage unit.

If more people see your work, more people buy it or hire you. If a model is so psyched that they're posting online, then all the better.

This is no different than someone test driving a preproduction car, and then breaking the DND contract to talk about how awesome it is, and they can't wait to see the finished one.

Sure they broke a contract, but ... Does anyone really care? It did much more good than harm.

Save the outrage for when people post preproduction images to talk shit.

nyk fury wrote:
the photographer is a dipshit. nothing else to say about it.

Yup, and nobody cares, either.
-Don

Mike Collins wrote:
What is it with people and their damn cell phone photos?  Just experience the thing happening right now.  There is no need to take a photo of EVERYTHING!!!  I'm a photographer and I rarely whip out my cell phone to take a photo.  Of anything!  I'm there.  I see it.  I'm experiencing it.  I'll remember it. 

Trust me, nobody really cares what your doing, eating, seeing, etc.  They really don't.

This would be equal to constantly inviting people over to your house to show your vacation slides/movies like they did way back when.  YAWN!!!!!

Except people do care. Its how models get over 100k followers on instagram and Facebook. They're not posting finished photos, theyre posting bathroom selfies and photos of their cats and their food and new outfits and yes, BTS photos of the shoots theyre on.

BTS work helps "regular people" understand and relate. Check any models tumblr and she's got dozens of "whats modelling really like, how do your shoots work, what happens on a shoot?" questions from strangers who are curious and don't have any idea what goes on for artists. Regular people are your fans. Regular people are the ones who buy your work and chip in on your patreon and buy shit off your wishlist and whatnot. A lot of regular people are the ones who help freelancers keep food on the table.

If you know how to work it properly, BTS/seflie shots can be very valuable.


Besides all that, just because you have a great memory doesn't mean you always will, or that everyone else has one and will always have one. If people didn't actually want to see what you ate for lunch or 400 photos of your baby nephew even though you posted 200 photos of the same kid a week ago, they'd never actually react to it, would they? But people do.

KristinaBz wrote:
This is the photographers post:
"You have the perfect wardrobe, 2 hours in hair and makeup,  set and props are spot on and the photog has the lighting just right, so you post a "behind the scenes" cell phone selfie before the shoot even starts.  And the magic is gone!"

Silly man!  Magic doesn't disappear because of selfies!   

I love behind the scenes images.  Never hurts me or my photography.

Culturally Destitute wrote:
Model was in the wrong. Take down pic and apologize.
Photog seems to be an over reactive prick. Needs to grow a pair.

Would the 'magic' have disappeared if the photographer had not known the pic was posted?

And the answer is "of course not!"

Laura UnBound wrote:
Except people do care. Its how models get over 100k followers on instagram and Facebook. They're not posting finished photos, theyre posting bathroom selfies and photos of their cats and their food and new outfits and yes, BTS photos of the shoots theyre on.

BTS work helps "regular people" understand and relate. Check any models tumblr and she's got dozens of "whats modelling really like, how do your shoots work, what happens on a shoot?" questions from strangers who are curious and don't have any idea what goes on for artists. Regular people are your fans. Regular people are the ones who buy your work and chip in on your patreon and buy shit off your wishlist and whatnot. A lot of regular people are the ones who help freelancers keep food on the table.

If you know how to work it properly, BTS/seflie shots can be very valuable.


Besides all that, just because you have a great memory doesn't mean you always will, or that everyone else has one and will always have one. If people didn't actually want to see what you ate for lunch or 400 photos of your baby nephew even though you posted 200 photos of the same kid a week ago, they'd never actually react to it, would they? But people do.

You bring up some what I call valid points that I agree with! 

It never ceases to amaze me what some photographers will complain about, and even some models too.  Times have changed.  Before the Internet, photographers shot with film, and no doubt, they probably got more respect for it. Heck, photographer Jim Marshall used to be able to get into concerts like the Monterey Pop and backstage just because he carried some Nikon cameras.  I met him before he died, and heard about the "good old days" ... well now if you want to shoot a concert, you better have some clot with online sites, and jump through the hoops to get your photo pass.  However, don't be disappointed when you turn around to see several thousand cellphone cameras in the air shooting the concert as well!   "What magic?"

Want to feel overwhelmed as a photographer?  Think about this for a minute;  "Facebook revealed in a white paper that its users have uploaded more than 250 billion photos, and are uploading 350 million new photos each day. To put that into perspective, that would mean that each of Facebook's 1.15 billion users have uploaded an average of 217 photos apiece."   -Sep 18, 2013

So you see, it's kinda silly to worry about selfies.  At the sametime that the Internet and digital technology has made photography far more accessible to more people than ever before, it has also created a need for a constant supply of images that is like a thirst that shall never be quenched!  Sometimes I miss the "good old days" when film was all we could shoot, and it seemed more treasured.  Those were some fun times for me.  However, I'm keeping a positive attitude, as I am enjoying the digital revolution and I wont let a "selfie" spoil my magic!   Any photographer or model who has a problem with a few certain images being on the Internet, the answer is to shoot a bunch more!  At least that is the way I look at it.  "Don't worry about it!"

Laura UnBound wrote:

Except people do care. Its how models get over 100k followers on instagram and Facebook. They're not posting finished photos, theyre posting bathroom selfies and photos of their cats and their food and new outfits and yes, BTS photos of the shoots theyre on.

BTS work helps "regular people" understand and relate. Check any models tumblr and she's got dozens of "whats modelling really like, how do your shoots work, what happens on a shoot?" questions from strangers who are curious and don't have any idea what goes on for artists. Regular people are your fans. Regular people are the ones who buy your work and chip in on your patreon and buy shit off your wishlist and whatnot. A lot of regular people are the ones who help freelancers keep food on the table.

If you know how to work it properly, BTS/seflie shots can be very valuable.


Besides all that, just because you have a great memory doesn't mean you always will, or that everyone else has one and will always have one. If people didn't actually want to see what you ate for lunch or 400 photos of your baby nephew even though you posted 200 photos of the same kid a week ago, they'd never actually react to it, would they? But people do.

+100

Mortonovich wrote:
I think it's lame as shit but I am highly biased - I think (most) selfies are dumb as shit. I don't give two fucks that a lot of Instagram fuckwads racked up lots of followers or likes with that shit. Just reaffirms my sentiment that IG isnot that cool.
Says so right on my own IG - "Fuck social media."

And I should clarify that a shot sorta "on set here at this place blah blah" sorta recording the event is kinda OK. But that whole shit trying to look cool and preening with the goddamn arm stretched out . . . . argh. And what the fuck is it with all the idiots in the front seat of car doing shit? Don't they know how idiotic they look? Fuck yeah, check me out, got my seat belt on! WAAHOOOOO!!! And I've been saying forever that someone should do a piano key seat belt cover as THE fashion accessory for those dipshits. It would sell like crazy and Mugatu would be proud.

Again, but this time with feeling!

Laura UnBound wrote:

Except people do care. Its how models get over 100k followers on instagram and Facebook. They're not posting finished photos, theyre posting bathroom selfies and photos of their cats and their food and new outfits and yes, BTS photos of the shoots theyre on.

BTS work helps "regular people" understand and relate. Check any models tumblr and she's got dozens of "whats modelling really like, how do your shoots work, what happens on a shoot?" questions from strangers who are curious and don't have any idea what goes on for artists. Regular people are your fans. Regular people are the ones who buy your work and chip in on your patreon and buy shit off your wishlist and whatnot. A lot of regular people are the ones who help freelancers keep food on the table.

If you know how to work it properly, BTS/seflie shots can be very valuable.


Besides all that, just because you have a great memory doesn't mean you always will, or that everyone else has one and will always have one. If people didn't actually want to see what you ate for lunch or 400 photos of your baby nephew even though you posted 200 photos of the same kid a week ago, they'd never actually react to it, would they? But people do.

Those are finished photos. Photojournalists shoot JPEGs because it's unethical to edit. Plenty shoot iPhone photos.

For many people an IG photo is a professional use. The type of camera used doesn't make it unfinished. I can see calling it a documentary photo rather than an art photo, but neither the type of camera used nor the fact that it's self-shot makes it any less of a photo.

And they must be pretty good if the photographer doesn't believe they can blow them away with their DSLR and lights.