J O H N  A L L A N wrote:
So, don't you feel her agreement was due to her understanding of your proposal, based on a misrepresentation by you?

The style of your work is wholly unrelated to the content of this video

Oh I have several styles of photography John - and am developing more

What You see here in my port is just one of those styles . i had to confine myself to one style of photography here becuase early feedback i recieved in the critique forums had somepeople thinking that my portfolio was the work of several photographers

  Edit- Redacted

And what better way to develop yet another new style  ( like Afro Punk ) than to have interesting subjects who volunteer their time and energies

Paolo Diavolo wrote:

Obviously You are a fan of the Hulkster but please - no more reference to him in this thread as I am not
I especially am not interested in your views on his sex tape ( but maybe you are not that big of fan )

No offense

Garry k wrote:
I met this 16 year old girl with Amazing Dreads today , Her Hair was down past her waist

Not a common sight in my part of the world as half our population is Asian , 45 per cent are White , And probably 2 percent are First Nations ...which doesnt leave a lot of Africans , Jamaicans and other

So I had to ask her if she would do an Afro Punk Inspired Shoot with Me

She looked at me curiously - perhaps not understanding what I was asking ( I am much older than her 16 yrs sadly , and have lost much of my own hair along the way )

So I showed her this video on my phone

https://www.yahoo.com/music/afropunk-an … 08281.html


And her response was "Yeah , thats my kind of shit "

I took that as a Yes that she will shoot with me

I made an omelette. I have decided to resist the urge to start a thread about it.

DarkSlide wrote:
I made an omelette. I have decided to resist the urge to start a thread about it.

You probably have more self control than i

I am a big fan of those food threads that occassionally pop up in "Other "- But of course this is the Models Forum ( something that a lot of photographers seem to have forgotten sadly -)

Garry k wrote:

You probably have more self control than i

I am a big fan of those food threads that occassionally pop up in "Other "- But of course this is the Models Forum ( something that a lot of photographers seem to have forgotten sadly -)

An often overlooked but important correction--actually, it's "The Model Colloquy  Conversations on...well...modeling."  No restrictions on participation by any member, so long as the conversation is appropriate and respectful.  Indeed, there are a goodly number of us who both photograph and model, for which reason a restrictive approach would be impossible to enforce.

All IMHO as always, of course.

Rays Fine Art wrote:
An often overlooked but important correction--actually, it's "The Model Colloquy  Conversations on...well...modeling."  No restrictions on participation by any member, so long as the conversation is appropriate and respectful.  Indeed, there are a goodly number of us who both photograph and model, for which reason a restrictive approach would be impossible to enforce.

All IMHO as always, of course.

So you feel threads about Omelettes( and other foods )  should be allowed in this forum ?  I am not clear on what your point is

Garry k wrote:

So you feel threads about Omelettes( and other foods )  should be allowed in this forum ?  I am not clear on what your point is

No, just that
1-the conversations should be about modeling in some direct way.  Threads about diets and or specific foods helpful for maintaining weight or preventing bloating (since these are matters of significant concern to most models) might well be appropriate to the extent that the thread applies to modeling, and,
2-it's important that we all recognize that the forum is is a place to discuss modeling in all its aspects, and how modeling impacts on us and/or how we impact on modeling, whatever our individual specialties.  It is not just a place for models to talk to models.

Every so often someone makes a derogatory comment about photographers (mostly) contributing to Colloquy threads forgetting that the photographer's perspective is often a critical one (sometimes even the most critical) on many questions concerning modeling.  And then the cry goes up to ban photographers from participating.  I submit that this would be pretty much like banning bankers from participating in discussions on mortgages, at best very counter-productive.  So when someone suggests in any way that the forum be restricted or that anyone hesitate to contribute suitably to a thread in the Colloquy because (s)he is not a model, I'm likely to point out that the Colloquy is, after all, a place to hold "Conversations on...well...modeling."

All IMHO as always, of course.

DarkSlide wrote:

I made an omelette. I have decided to resist the urge to start a thread about it.

I met a photographer today, he was hot.
He was 16.

(I didn't meet anyone today; I just woke up but I get your dry humor).

Garry k wrote:
I met this 16 year old girl with Amazing Dreads today , Her Hair was down past her waist

Not a common sight in my part of the world as half our population is Asian , 45 per cent are White , And probably 2 percent are First Nations ...which doesnt leave a lot of Africans , Jamaicans and other

So I had to ask her if she would do an Afro Punk Inspired Shoot with Me

She looked at me curiously - perhaps not understanding what I was asking ( I am much older than her 16 yrs sadly , and have lost much of my own hair along the way )

So I showed her this video on my phone

https://www.yahoo.com/music/afropunk-an … 08281.html


And her response was "Yeah , thats my kind of shit "

I took that as a Yes that she will shoot with me

So much teasing, I wish you had a picture of her.  Sharing is a beautiful thing. 

Jules NYC wrote:
I met a photographer today, he was hot.
He was 16.

(I didn't meet anyone today; I just woke up but I get your dry humor).

Thats totally not what I said though



I said that I met a girl who had Amazing Hair , and that her Hair inspired me to want to shoot with her in a different style

I met her at phootshoot I was doing for a local African Fashion Designers New Campaign  ( I dont often meet girls with such hair living where i do even though I am immeresed in our fashion scene here ) 

As they are doing her hair  - I think to mself that i am going find it interesting to phtotograph such a spectacular main of hair but then they did it completely up and covered her head with a traditional Nigerian Headwrap

So i did not get to shoot this Girl with her Dreads - which motivated her to ask her to do a second creative shoot in a genre that might appeal appeal to her personally . Given that she was Jamaican Canadian should li pitch her an idea in say a Reggae Style or should it be Aftro Punk? - I geussed that Afro Punk might appeal to her more - and i was right

I actually posted ( in this thread )  a teaser shot of this girl and another  model we used in the African Shoot - and I posted the same image as a preview to the campaign . But last night the Designer asked me not to post anything to Social Media untill the Official Launch - so took the images down

If I am able shoot this girl again - you will see her hair in all its glory and understand what I am talking about

I dont usually approach potential models based on their hairstyles alone ( and my vision for such a hair style ) but it has happened

I think that a Models Hair can be a very important element in creating the overall look that is being sought for in a shoot
Usually of coiurse shoots are planned in a certain style and models who fit the look being sought are booked fot the shoot . In this case though I am saying that I like the overall look of this Model ( espeially her Hair ) and am willing to create a shoot in a style / genre that  is new and different to me ( but would help me grow and develop as a photographer )

Oh and the video linked to earlier sort fo represents my initial mood board for such a shoot

That is all

Connor Photography wrote:
So much teasing, I wish you had a picture of her.  Sharing is a beautiful thing. 

Well as I just mentioned - I had posted a  preview rphoto of her earlier in this thread from the Fashion Shoot I did for My Nigerian Dessigner Friend last weekend . However the problem with that look was that her hair was completely covered with a head wraip so you cant even see her hair

And late last night the Designer asked me to pull anything I had posted on Social Media about the shoot cus she wants to be in control of the splash when it hits so to speak

Together  I  am hopinig that we can have this campaign wrapped up and rolled out by the end of the month ( June ) so when the photos are officially released - I can post something back here but of course it those photos will not show her hair

But my real hope is to do another creative with this girl ( who i am even hesitant to call a model yet ) before then - a shoot that i am hoping will be in the Afro Punk Style

So I cant show you Her or her dreadlocks right now but I can show you this ( unrelated ) video to give you some idea what her hair is like ( her hair though is not quite as long as his )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62tgSkTcMQk
Bless

Rays Fine Art wrote:
No, just that
1-the conversations should be about modeling in some direct way.  Threads about diets and or specific foods helpful for maintaining weight or preventing bloating (since these are matters of significant concern to most models) might well be appropriate to the extent that the thread applies to modeling, and,
2-it's important that we all recognize that the forum is is a place to discuss modeling in all its aspects, and how modeling impacts on us and/or how we impact on modeling, whatever our individual specialties.  It is not just a place for models to talk to models.

Every so often someone makes a derogatory comment about photographers (mostly) contributing to Colloquy threads forgetting that the photographer's perspective is often a critical one (sometimes even the most critical) on many questions concerning modeling.  And then the cry goes up to ban photographers from participating.  I submit that this would be pretty much like banning bankers from participating in discussions on mortgages, at best very counter-productive.  So when someone suggests in any way that the forum be restricted or that anyone hesitate to contribute suitably to a thread in the Colloquy because (s)he is not a model, I'm likely to point out that the Colloquy is, after all, a place to hold "Conversations on...well...modeling."

All IMHO as always, of course.

Thank You Ray , So I guess two questions come to mind from my response

Should we have asked Mr Dark Slide about Bloating after eating his Omelette



And on more serious note  - Why do You think that so many Female Models have left the Modelling Forum over the past few years

Might it be ( to some small extent ) that the Outnumbering Male Photographers here generally dont share Female Models interest in such things as diet , hair , beauty products etc ....

Just something to think about

Garry k wrote:
Not a common sight in my part of the world as half our population is Asian , 45 per cent are White , And probably 2 percent are First Nations ...which doesnt leave a lot of Africans , Jamaicans and other

And her response was "Yeah , thats my kind of shit "

Garry k wrote:

Thats totally not what I said though



I said that I met a girl who had Amazing Hair , and that her Hair inspired me to want to shoot with her in a different style

I met her at phootshoot I was doing for a local African Fashion Designers New Campaign  ( I dont often meet girls with such hair living where i do even though I am immeresed in our fashion scene here ) 

As they are doing her hair  - I think to mself that i am going find it interesting to phtotograph such a spectacular main of hair but then they did it completely up and covered her head with a traditional Nigerian Headwrap

So i did not get to shoot this Girl with her Dreads - which motivated her to ask her to do a second creative shoot in a genre that might appeal appeal to her personally . Given that she was Jamaican Canadian should li pitch her an idea in say a Reggae Style or should it be Aftro Punk? - I geussed that Afro Punk might appeal to her more - and i was right

I actually posted ( in this thread )  a teaser shot of this girl and another  model we used in the African Shoot - and I posted the same image as a preview to the campaign . But last night the Designer asked me not to post anything to Social Media untill the Official Launch - so took the images down

If I am able shoot this girl again - you will see her hair in all its glory and understand what I am talking about

I dont usually approach potential models based on their hairstyles alone ( and my vision for such a hair style ) but it has happened

I think that a Models Hair can be a very important element in creating the overall look that is being sought for in a shoot
Usually of coiurse shoots are planned in a certain style and models who fit the look being sought are booked fot the shoot . In this case though I am saying that I like the overall look of this Model ( espeially her Hair ) and am willing to create a shoot in a style / genre that  is new and different to me ( but would help me grow and develop as a photographer )

Oh and the video linked to earlier sort fo represents my initial mood board for such a shoot

That is all

If you like dreads you just gave me a flashback....

I was in a park in San Francisco and my eye caught this white girl with super thick, long dreads.  If I were a pro photographer I would have asked her for a sitting... and with her dog too.  The girl was pretty. I have no idea how old she was 20 something?

Her dog looked like she did, they were absolutely cool as hell.

Jules NYC wrote:

Now if I saw that

I would probably stick a mop handle up its butt and start trying to wipe the floor

Garry k wrote:
Now if I saw that

I would probably stick a mop handle up its butt and start trying to wipe the floor

Ok, I'm out.

Jules NYC wrote:
Ok, I'm out.

WTF - You posted a picture of a Dog or is it a Mop ?

LOL

Garry k wrote:
I don't want to sound racist but

In my opinion most white folk and dogs  do not look good in dreads

of course there are a few exceptiions ( but none really come to my mind right now )

It does sound racist.

The woman I have seen was beautiful and I'm not really a fan of dreads at all.
I think I'm more offended for the dog than the girl at this point.

Jules NYC wrote:
It does sound racist.

The woman I have seen was beautiful and I'm not really a fan of dreads at all.
I think I'm more offended for the dog than the girl at this point.

And personally - In my opinion the consistency of white peoples hair is more suited to braids than dreads

Asthetically Speaking of course



See now we are having a discussion about hairstyles - and the suitable differences between Braids and Dreadlocks

Garry k wrote:
OMG!

I have just recieved word that I have been approved to photograph this Woman when she passes through my part of the world this summer




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpLYUqJ9Y_k

even though her hair is more braided than dreadlocked

I was looking for a Dreadlock Princess and The Lord has decided to send me a Braided Queen instead



Not my photos but I will do as well when I photograph her - trust me

Rays Fine Art wrote:

No, just that
1-the conversations should be about modeling in some direct way.  Threads about diets and or specific foods helpful for maintaining weight or preventing bloating (since these are matters of significant concern to most models) might well be appropriate to the extent that the thread applies to modeling, and,
2-it's important that we all recognize that the forum is is a place to discuss modeling in all its aspects, and how modeling impacts on us and/or how we impact on modeling, whatever our individual specialties.  It is not just a place for models to talk to models.

Every so often someone makes a derogatory comment about photographers (mostly) contributing to Colloquy threads forgetting that the photographer's perspective is often a critical one (sometimes even the most critical) on many questions concerning modeling.  And then the cry goes up to ban photographers from participating.  I submit that this would be pretty much like banning bankers from participating in discussions on mortgages, at best very counter-productive.  So when someone suggests in any way that the forum be restricted or that anyone hesitate to contribute suitably to a thread in the Colloquy because (s)he is not a model, I'm likely to point out that the Colloquy is, after all, a place to hold "Conversations on...well...modeling."

All IMHO as always, of course.

Sadly not enough hold that view, which is why I generally stay out of here.

Garry k wrote:

Now if I saw that

I would probably stick a mop handle up its butt and start trying to wipe the floor

If small it was a "Puli"
http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/puli#/slide/1

Garry k wrote:
And on more serious note  - Why do You think that so many Female Models have left the Modelling Forum over the past few years

A number of things, not the least of which being the closing down of ANTM, which I'm sure reduced the number of young models, (Mostly female) who thought "I'll try it" and then came into the forums looking for help, often phrased in terms that sounded opportunistic and demanding, rather as seeking help.  This tended to fuel the downright cruelty with which not only these queries but almost any queries that indicated limited experience, were responded to by a few, often equally uninformed photographers.  This resulted in an effort to ban photographers generally from the Colloquy, an approach that is, in my opinion, worse than the ills it seeks to cure.  Mostly, though (and this an opinion that probably few will share) I think the colloquy and the forums in general have become less fun to participate in because of an excessive emphasis on professional as opposed to hobbiest modeling and photography.  Except for a relatively few travelling models, most of us are here for fun, to develop skills that our professional lives may not use adequately, or just for the opportunity to interact with other artists in a collegial way.  When it becomes overly exclusionary or technically focused, it gets to be less fun.

Garry k wrote:
Might it be ( to some small extent ) that the Outnumbering Male Photographers here generally dont share Female Models interest in such things as diet , hair , beauty products etc ....
Just something to think about

And therein lies a splendid opportunity for those uninformed photographers (or any other uninformed person for that matter) to just shut up and "lurk, look, listen and learn" about the problems that effect the other half of the team and that may thereby effect the results of the shoot.  There's a rule that first responders live by and that applies here:  "Help if you can, but if you can't help, get the Hell out of the way!"

Always sound advice and
All IMHO as always, of course.

Rays Fine Art wrote:
A number of things, not the least of which being the closing down of ANTM, which I'm sure reduced the number of young models, (Mostly female) who thought "I'll try it" and then came into the forums looking for help, often phrased in terms that sounded opportunistic and demanding, rather as seeking help.  This tended to fuel the downright cruelty with which not only these queries but almost any queries that indicated limited experience, were responded to by a few, often equally uninformed photographers.  This resulted in an effort to ban photographers generally from the Colloquy, an approach that is, in my opinion, worse than the ills it seeks to cure.  Mostly, though (and this an opinion that probably few will share) I think the colloquy and the forums in general have become less fun to participate in because of an excessive emphasis on professional as opposed to hobbiest modeling and photography.  Except for a relatively few travelling models, most of us are here for fun, to develop skills that our professional lives may not use adequately, or just for the opportunity to interact with other artists in a collegial way.  When it becomes overly exclusionary or technically focused, it gets to be less fun.


And therein lies a splendid opportunity for those uninformed photographers (or any other uninformed person for that matter) to just shut up and "lurk, look, listen and learn" about the problems that effect the other half of the team and that may thereby effect the results of the shoot.  There's a rule that first responders live by and that applies here:  "Help if you can, but if you can't help, get the Hell out of the way!"

Always sound advice and
All IMHO as always, of course.

With all due respect to you and your  extensive experience as a photographer , forum guide (  and probably an all around nice fellow )

I am sorry but your answers simply do not cut it

First of all ANTM never had any real relevance to the Real Fashion ( or Glamour ) Industrys beyond being a form of entertainment . It was a Reality Show  ( which means in itself that it was an unreal representation of reality )

Secondly there are more and more Agencies and Models in North America and there is more work overall as the Fashion Industry has grown not contracted over the past decade . This of course also means that there are more aspiring , wanna be and never  had a chance models

MM itself also has been  growing its membershp towards the million member mark - so that would indicate to me that probably the numbers of models are also increasing

The problem of dimiishing participation in the Modelling forum by ( well ) Models - started some time ago and was recognized by some of us . Yes and some radical solutions were presented - includng making the forum models only ( which i supported ) - But nothing really  was changed and the models kept leaving

And I certainly to not agree with you that the forums ( or this forum ) have become less "fun " to participate in because there has been an excessive emphasis on professionalism rather  than hobbyist modelling and photography - The forums have become less interesting because  now the forums  are primarily dominated by the hobbyist photographer ( who of course think that they know everything .).The  voices of the many former Professional Photographers , Models of any kind , as well as MUAs , Stylists etc have largely gone silent

Oh and your reference to the Model as being "one half of the team " further speaks to the point i just made

Garry k wrote:
With all due respect to you and your  extensive experience as a photographer , forum guide (  and probably an all around nice fellow )

I am sorry but your answers simply do not cut it

First of all ANTM never had any real relevance to the Real Fashion ( or Glamour ) Industrys beyond being a form of entertainment . It was a Reality Show  ( which means in itself that it was an unreal representation of reality )

Secondly there are more and more Agencies and Models in North America and there is more work overall as the Fashion Industry has grown not contracted over the past decade . This of course also means that there are more aspiring , wanna be and never  had a chance models

MM itself also has been  growing its membershp towards the million member mark - so that would indicate to me that probably the numbers of models are also increasing

The problem of dimiishing participation in the Modelling forum by ( well ) Models - started some time ago and was recognized by some of us . Yes and some radical solutions were presented - includng making the forum models only ( which i supported ) - But nothing really  was changed and the models kept leaving

And I certainly to not agree with you that the forums ( or this forum ) have become less "fun " to participate in because there has been an excessive emphasis on professionalism rather  than hobbyist modelling and photography - The forums have become less interesting because  now the forums  are primarily dominated by the hobbyist photographer ( who of course think that they know everything .).The  voices of the many former Professional Photographers , Models of any kind , as well as MUAs , Stylists etc have largely gone silent

Oh and your reference to the Model as being "one half of the team " further speaks to the point i just made

Garry I am sorry but I totally disagree with your assertions. Forums are not integral to being on MM. Just because a minority of the membership have nothing better to do and are addicted to the forums( like gawking at a car wreck) ( I include myself here) in no way reflects the interests of 20 something wanna be models who are busy in college and have better things to do then read the forums.

The majority of the membership just don't care.  I also hope you stop slamming the hobbyist photographer, their opinions have value.  There would be no MM without the hobbyist model and photographer.  I'm sorry but there are other genre other than fashion, don't be so myoptic.

And by the way there is not anywhere close to a million members on MM that are active. In fact I'm sure the number is close to 10% of that.

Here's the truth...

About 5% of the models have the model stats, the beauty, or the unique look to be a fashion model.  Most of those models are already with an agency, and no longer need the photographers on MM to shoot them for their book.

Somewhere there is another 5% of the membership who are talented art models who pose with exceptional art photographers and have no problem charging the hobbyist for their services.

And then throw in another 5% who are wonderful glamour or glamour nude models.  They also work with a finite number of great photographers and then charge the hobbyist.

So total 15% of the model base, say 50,000 active models world wide which would be a total of 7,500 models that are excellent working models.  Actually I'm sure this is a very liberal number.  The rest would like to live the dream but mostly they want images for their Facebook and to have their "friends " think they are real working models.

So, after a while most of these models just stop.  Sometimes life, relationships get in the way .  Or they just get bored.

The same is true for the photographers here. For the real pro photographers here, they are wedding photographers,shoot senior pictures, portraits, commercial / product.  Perhaps a handful of photographers are actually model photographers whether fashion, glamour or glamour nude or art nude photographers.  So the rest are hobbyist wanna be photographers.

Since most have no interest in the "industry" mostly the inside industry people don't reflect the interests or the needs of the hobbyist.

Don't decry the hobbyist either, model or photographers, they are the overwhelming majority.

So the hobbyist photographer's opinions are valid and have a place in the forums.

To many, "so called" pros want the forums to be their private club and what ever they have to say is as important as Moses bringing the tablets down from the Mount.  It may be interesting but not necessarily.

That is an arrogant and elitist mindset.  That I don't accept.

If MM is dying ( I don't think it is) it is because IB does nothing to listen to its members, and won't give the members the site functions they want.  Models are young and they are all on Facebook and find that a more viable option as they establish groups of models and photographers in cities for the images they want.  I have talked to many models and they rely on Facebook and Instagram.  MM is like your old fuddy dud grandparents in comparison .

I just received a personal email from David at Model Society.  He is seeking a harsh critique of Model Society and wants to know how to make his site better.  I have been on MM since 2009 and have we ever received even a survey to fill in and send?  No

INMHO this is what is making MM what it is today.

Quit blaming the majority of members

Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:
Garry I am sorry but I totally disagree with your assertions. Forums are not integral to being on MM. Just because a minority of the membership have nothing better to do and are addicted to the forums( like gawking at a car wreck) ( I include myself here) in no way reflects the interests of 20 something wanna be models who are busy in college and have better things to do then read the forums.

The majority of the membership just don't care.  I also hope you stop slamming the hobbyist photographer, their opinions have value.  There would be no MM without the hobbyist model and photographer.  I'm sorry but there are other genre other than fashion, don't be so myoptic.

And by the way there is not anywhere close to a million members on MM that are active. In fact I'm sure the number is close to 10% of that.

Here's the truth...

About 5% of the models have the model stats, the beauty, or the unique look to be a fashion model.  Most of those models are already with an agency, and no longer need the photographers on MM to shoot them for their book.

Somewhere there is another 5% of the membership who are talented art models who pose with exceptional art photographers and have no problem charging the hobbyist for their services.

And then throw in another 5% who are wonderful glamour or glamour nude models.  They also work with a finite number of great photographers and then charge the hobbyist.

So total 15% of the model base, say 50,000 active models world wide which would be a total of 7,500 models that are excellent working models.  Actually I'm sure this is a very liberal number.  The rest would like to live the dream but mostly they want images for their Facebook and to have their "friends " think they are real working models.

So, after a while most of these models just stop.  Sometimes life, relationships get in the way .  Or they just get bored.

The same is true for the photographers here. For the real pro photographers here, they are wedding photographers,shoot senior pictures, portraits, commercial / product.  Perhaps a handful of photographers are actually model photographers whether fashion, glamour or glamour nude or art nude photographers.  So the rest are hobbyist wanna be photographers.

Since most have no interest in the "industry" mostly the inside industry people don't reflect the interests or the needs of the hobbyist.

Don't decry the hobbyist either, model or photographers, they are the overwhelming majority.

So the hobbyist photographer's opinions are valid and have a place in the forums.

To many, "so called" pros want the forums to be their private club and what ever they have to say is as important as Moses bringing the tablets down from the Mount.  It may be interesting but not necessarily.

That is an arrogant and elitist mindset.  That I don't accept.

If MM is dying ( I don't think it is) it is because IB does nothing to listen to its members, and won't give the members the site functions they want.  Models are young and they are all on Facebook and find that a more viable option as they establish groups of models and photographers in cities for the images they want.  I have talked to many models and they rely on Facebook and Instagram.  MM is like your old fuddy dud grandparents in comparison .

I just received a personal email from David at Model Society.  He is seeking a harsh critique of Model Society and wants to know how to make his site better.  I have been on MM since 2009 and have we ever received even a survey to fill in and send?  No

INMHO this is what is making MM what it is today.

Quit blaming the majority of members

Did You ever believe that i thought the Forums were an integral part of MM - I mean ever ?  They may or may not be a baromoter of certian  things but I dont have enough information to draw any conclusiotns on that

I am a Hobbyist Photgrapher  - at least for now ( but I may kick it into another gear very soon - things are changing for now that u retired fom my non photography career )

I like your analogy about MM being like your old fuddy duddy grandparents - Of course that was not always the case , Tyler had spirit

HHonor wrote:
pics or it didnt happen

I will post a picture of the Dreadlock Princess after the African Tribal Campaign I shot her for hits the market and i am allowed to release the chosen shots for my own portfolio )

I will post photos of the Braided Queen after i shoot with her this summer