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To pay or to be paid...That is the question.....
I was never offered to be paid...I have paid. All the models, except for maybe 2 or 3 TFP.....In 10 or more years of shooting.... Always wonder how the photographers who never pay, find models. I am talking about an amateur photographer with no connection in the business world that could be of interest to a serious career model. May 06 17 03:28 pm Link IMAGINERIES wrote: I've paid, I've been paid and I've traded. May 06 17 03:33 pm Link I take the position that the time and effort involved and the pictures resulting from that time and effort do constitute pay, simply in a different medium of exchange, much the same as payment in pounds sterling is not essentially different from payment in U.S. dollars, so in that sense, I guess I've always paid. If you disagree, then I guess I've never paid. Almost all of my models have come from MM. Being in New York for most of that time has certainly impacted on the number of shoots I've been able to book, if for no other reason than that there are a heck of a lot more people who want to model, for whatever reason, than in New Orleans, where I'm currently based. Why they've posed has been as varied as the models themselves. In most cases for portfolio development or headshots for actors. In some simple curiosity as to what it's like to pose naked for an old man that they've never met. In some few cases, these chance encounters have resulted in friendships that have lasted for months and, in a couple, for years. I have no choice but to believe that something in my portfolio leads them to want to be shot by me with no other form of recompense. What that reason is, I really don't know. All IMHO as always, of course. May 06 17 03:58 pm Link "Always pay, always sell, always profit" has worked just fine for me for nearly 20 years. Everything else is trivia and technicality. But whatever works for anyone else, good for them. May 06 17 04:05 pm Link IMAGINERIES wrote: Don't do as many nudes. It is possible but harder to get TFP nudes. As there is more demand for paid work from that. May 06 17 04:06 pm Link with me, or trade or i get paid.....it really depends on the quality ...trade if there is a balance....and money compensates if there is no balance... if i pay model it's because my client pays me and my team....that's the professional way... ...it also helps that it's not my hobby or has ever been.....i think that if it's your hobby, you find yourself easier paying. The fact that i create work for glossy magazines and campaigns gives a certain value. Everybody needs publications.. Herman www.hermanvangestel.com May 06 17 04:10 pm Link Whether or not to pay model can depend, among other things, on the value that you place on your time. TF shoots can be fairly expensive once you factor in the time to arrange a shoot, the number of models who will mess you around and waste your time, and the number of shoots that turn out to be a waste of time because the model was simply not up to the job. Paying cash reduces (but does not eliminate) these problems. May 06 17 04:32 pm Link IMAGINERIES wrote: Have you asked for pay? IMAGINERIES wrote: No doubt there are thousands of answers to your question. May 06 17 04:46 pm Link I had a few years where I really worked to commend some pay as a part time photographer. While I had a few very profitable shoots, overall, It was a lot of work, and in the end the overall pay rate very low. I've gotten models for trade, but it's been rare lately. I've had better luck lining up trade shoots via craigslist. Often I pay local talent #30/hour for an art nude shoot, but at that rate, it takes a fair bit of work to find someone, and I get a fairly high cancellation rate. In contrast, I hired a traveling model this past weekend. In contrast to the trade shoots, to set this shoot up I only had to communicate with one model for maybe 1/2 hour. For me, there is a strong correlation between money spent and the ease of setting up shoots. TF takes a lot of work. Whether it's worth paying more to make it easier to book shoots is a personal choice. Some people can't understand why more photographers don't pay much more to make booking easier. Other's don't get why some photographers are so quick to throw money away when with some dedication they could be shooting TF. My overall view is if you don't want to spend money on your subject matter, shoot something other than models. May 06 17 05:24 pm Link IMAGINERIES wrote: Easy. I ask. May 06 17 07:00 pm Link Good Egg Productions wrote: Speak for yourself. I still get at least half my NYC models from here. Some really good models. Maybe it is just bad in Orlando. Other half on Instagram. May 06 17 07:08 pm Link Good Egg Productions wrote:
May 06 17 07:41 pm Link Dan K Photography wrote: 1. You join model and photographer and photography groups. May 06 17 07:56 pm Link It's one of the fundemental questions of economics: "Who gets how much what?" What, other than money, does the photographer get out of a given photoshoot, and how much is it worth to him? What, other than money, does the model get out of a given photoshoot, and how much is it worth to her? Money payments are to make the photoshoot happen when one side finds it to be not worth enough while the other side finds it to be worth a lot. May 07 17 04:36 am Link It all depends on your creative process, the images you produce, and how you sell them to potential collaborators. I don't like to tell people who is a paid or professional model. I know them personally, or I don't. That's all I like to say. For my own personal work, I've found paid models are my best or worst subjects. If you have a good one, they come with their own ideas - unlike most new or less serious models. They are good ideas, or they are not. I'd say about a fifth of the models I've used for serious work in the last few years have been paid. Of those, a few are some of the best in the series, a few didn't even make the series, and only one was anywhere in the middle. It's feast or famine, and all about picking the right person. I find that it's easier to mold random rubes into what I want, but they can only go so far. If my budget allowed, I would absolutely hire more models, but I'd probably never go above 50/50. But if I were doing different work(something more than 'stand there while I take photos') I'd hire every time I could. Sure there'd be some Fs, but I'd get mostly As. But for the project I'm doing now, odd as it sounds, I actually need a lot of Bs. May 07 17 05:43 am Link IMAGINERIES wrote: What makes you think a photographer has to have any kind of connection to the "business world" to be able to create a great image that a model could use for their portfolio? Trust me, A LOT of "professional" photographers create absolutely horrible images that don't help the model's portfolio in any way as well. May 07 17 06:11 am Link i paid at first but eventually transitioned to all TF. working with newer models and not pushing nudes on them may have helped (i also gave them a proofing gallery and let them choose their favorites). i also shot zivity sets where the sets gets votes which can translate into real money for both photographer and model. i've also done barter (exchanging lodging for a shoot). exotic dancers sometimes need publicity shots. in terms of getting paid, there was (haven't shot for money in a few years so things may have changed) a market for boudoir. women doing sets for their significant other or just for themselves. although at the end of the day i started to feel like it would be better for them to have had a female photographer (in theory the significant other is less likely to get upset about that). May 07 17 07:52 am Link IMAGINERIES wrote: Paying, getting paid, trading is ALL about the same thing. May 07 17 08:10 am Link To pay or to be paid...That is the question..... To answer with Shakespeare: as you like it. May 07 17 08:45 am Link Browse my portfolio and gallery, I've never paid a model. I have BEEN paid for some shoots. What would you like to know? May 12 17 08:03 am Link I primarily shoot art nudes. 90% of those are on a trade basis. I have had trade fine art shoots in New York, California and Salt Lake City, using models local to those areas. Every Spring for the last 5 years I have traveled with models from MN driving across country and shooting in many states to California, New Mexico, Badlands South Dakota. I think the hardest thing to do, is make it known that you work on a trade basis, and are no longer paying models. In 2011 I spent over $7,000 paying models, both traveling models coming to Mn and a few of the Stand out models local to MN. In 2012 I decided to stop doing that and work with models only on a trade basis. I was afraid that my model pool would dry up, and that no one would want to work with me. That though was simply not the case. Models did want to work with me and I wAs lucky enough to discover some new faces for fine art modeling. I began to develop a team of models from MM or from local art schools to shoot with me. Many (almost all) of my collaborators had never posed nude before shooting with me. I was able to shoot some of these models between 10 and 20 times a year . At least 5 of these models still shoot only with me after 4 and 5 years. ( I am so indebted to my wonderful team of muses who have helped me achieve my photographic vision.) The key is to find models who love what you create and want to be a part of it. Then after you work with them quickly turn around the work be generous with your edits. In other words I will complete 20 to 30 images within 2 days and send back to the models. When I have an exhibition I invite the whole team to come. When I sell any of my images I pay the model 50% of the profit. Also, after about 10 shoots I produce a blurb book using their very best paper and hardcover bindings of their work. These aren't for sale and are created for myself and the model. I also have two get together a year at Christmas and my birthday where my collaborators go out to a local restaurant for dinner and I give them framed images of my work with them, a few other presents like journals and nice pens as well art and fashion books I know they are interested. So yes it takes a bit of an effort and I am sure it is not for everybody. But, it has worked well for me and the models who are part of my team, and at the end of the day that is all that really matters. Do I pay models? Yes I will still pay a model or two. My last trip to California I paid two models and shot trade with 3 models as well as had a MN model fly out and work with me for 2 weeks. I may still pay a local MN model but for me to do so they have to be better then the models on my team, and that is rarely true. Will I pay a traveling model? Maybe but they need to be amazing art models which is also rarely the case. So I hope this answers your question about working with models on a trade basis. If you want more information you can PM me. Best of luck in your photographic pursuits Risen Phoenix May 12 17 05:46 pm Link Good Egg Productions wrote: Ive found the groups to be pretty worthless, theyre either full of random people that just want to hit on you or get told theyre pretty in their selfies or they're so curated it's just one guys group of friends, theres little in-between May 13 17 04:00 pm Link Newbies tend to shoot their friends or do group shoots where its either free or they might pay something but aren't paying a model directly. They also offer stuff that isn't money (hosting) Or they shoot trade with other newbies. As you get better at your photography you climb the ladder and start attracting better models. Eventually you're a top photographer shooting top models. If you never get better then...well... cash or something else valuable May 13 17 04:02 pm Link Different people have different motivations for what they do. Some people are just here to create interesting work others do it because they want some crisp new dollars. There is no one reason for anything. May 29 17 03:28 pm Link |
sadly it's true 
