Forums > Off-Topic Discussion > How Fragile Civilization!

Photographer

Looknsee Photography

Posts: 26342

Portland, Oregon, US

Yesterday, about this time, we had a massive power failure downtown.  There were two electrical fires in underground bunkers to the root, and 11,000 households lost power.

The days are long, and I have tons of flashlights.  My rechargeable devices (laptop, tablet, Kindle) had charges (although the Kindle was low), but without power, I lost Internet access.

They got the power back on just a little while ago, but I sure missed it.  "You don't miss your water until your well runs dry."

May 23 17 05:37 pm Link

Photographer

Lightcraft Studio

Posts: 13682

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

After a long wait for the permits to get approved, my generator is finally being installed Friday... getting ready for this upcoming hurricane season.

May 23 17 06:22 pm Link

Photographer

Leonard Gee Photography

Posts: 18096

Sacramento, California, US

Looknsee Photography wrote:
The days are long, and I have tons of flashlights.  My rechargeable devices (laptop, tablet, Kindle) had charges (although the Kindle was low), but without power, I lost Internet access.

generally, at&t and comcast have power backup. since the router is low voltage, it is on the ups with the phone and other low power devices. the desktop computers & external storage are each on their own ups. so when the power goes out, the internet, computers & phone are usually still up. a month ago, there was an outage, and everything ran for about 3 hours until the power came on.

the laptops have spare and extended batteries. did get a small 25w solar panel to recharge phone; but thinking about 50w for a bit faster charging. there are also the supplemental batteries to run & charge the phone & tablets 3-5 times. camera batteries are always charged & they can run the led lights for days.

May 23 17 07:06 pm Link

Photographer

Lovely Day Media

Posts: 5885

Vineland, New Jersey, US

There was a time a few years ago when a storm came through here and knocked the electricity out of almost the entire city. Fortunately, I was house and dog sitting for my sister in another city that wasn't affected so I called my mother and invited her to stay there with me (the air conditioner worked and it was really hot outside).

The electricity at my house was off for 2 days but there were many parts of the city that were out for 2 weeks and some even more. There were people all over facebook complaining about it. Even after it was explained that the workers were working 16 hour shifts each day, no time off and they brought people in from Texas, Georgia and other places, they still complained.

They only stopped when someone asked a great question: what would you do if you lived in a place like Haiti where not only are you without power but there is no power plant anymore? An earthquake had just gone down there and took out their power and no timetable to get it back as they had to build another one. That chilled all the gripes and complaints out.

You're right, though. Society is a fragile thing. Everything is great or mostly great when things are running mostly to expectation but let something happen and society will turn to chaos.

May 24 17 02:51 am Link

Photographer

Mike Collins

Posts: 2880

Orlando, Florida, US

Yep.  A little over 10 years ago we got hit with 3 hurricanes.  The first knocked out a lot of power in my area for 9 days!!!  And that was every resident AND business near me.  Cold showers.  No way to cook.  No ice (still hot out).  Actually, the internet and my phone were the least of my worries.  Couldn't even pump gas because the local stations were knocked out as well and others were out of gas.  What a nightmare. 

The other two were mot as bad.  5 days and then 2.  But we lost power with each hurricane.  Thank god we haven't had anything like it since.  Since now we rely even more on out phones and internet.

May 24 17 04:05 am Link

Photographer

Peter Claver

Posts: 27130

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

What happens when the power goes out and stays out was precisely the topic of the first 30 minutes of this wonderful show from almost 40 years ago:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnwpsp … ffect_tech

specifically this section:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPcZ_5uCldg

It's an amazing series.. I watched it when it was a child -- it discusses the connections in the history of technology -- How did we get here from there.

But this first episodes really drives home how dependent we are on the trappings (or traps as he puts them) of technology.

May 24 17 04:49 am Link

Photographer

FlirtynFun Photography

Posts: 13926

Houston, Texas, US

Peter Claver wrote:
But this first episodes really drives home how dependent we are on the trappings (or traps as he puts them) of technology.

I agree....we've been lucky so far to not have worldwide Internet outages. The Internet has been outstanding as far a resiliency, however it wouldn't surprise me that in my lifetime to see some sort of catastrophic outage. I personally think we rely on technology way too much.
Try taking your kids' cell phone or tablet away for a couple of hours and see the reaction

May 24 17 05:32 am Link

Photographer

Peter Claver

Posts: 27130

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

FlirtynFun Photography wrote:
I agree....we've been lucky so far to not have worldwide Internet outages. The Internet has been outstanding as far a resiliency, however it wouldn't surprise me that in my lifetime to see some sort of catastrophic outage. I personally think we rely on technology way too much.
Try taking your kids' cell phone or tablet away for a couple of hours and see the reaction

The internet would be one level of catastrophe.. but electricity/electronics going out altogether would be another thing entirely.

Not relying on technology is a tricky thing though.. the level of technology that Burke is talking about is nearly 100 year old stuff -- elevators, cars, gas pumps, tractors, general farm equipment.  The very point he's making is that unless you can master *primitive* technology (can you butcher a cow? can you figure out how to plow a field? can you make fire? can you figure out when and what to plant.. heck.. can you set a broken bone or treat an infection) then take away the trappings of civilization (even if we were still at early/mid 20th century levels of dependence) and you're screwed.  Our dependence on technology isn't just due to the decisions of the last 10 or 20 or 30 or even 100 years.. it is the culmination of thousands of years of "if this then that".  We're in it now.. there's no going back.

May 24 17 06:36 am Link

Photographer

FlirtynFun Photography

Posts: 13926

Houston, Texas, US

Peter Claver wrote:

The internet would be one level of catastrophe.. but electricity/electronics going out altogether would be another thing entirely.

Not relying on technology is a tricky thing though.. the level of technology that Burke is talking about is nearly 100 year old stuff -- elevators, cars, gas pumps, tractors, general farm equipment.  The very point he's making is that unless you can master *primitive* technology (can you butcher a cow? can you figure out how to plow a field? can you make fire? can you figure out when and what to plant.. heck.. can you set a broken bone or treat an infection) then take away the trappings of civilization (even if we were still at early/mid 20th century levels of dependence) and you're screwed.  Our dependence on technology isn't just due to the decisions of the last 10 or 20 or 30 or even 100 years.. it is the culmination of thousands of years of "if this then that".  We're in it now.. there's no going back.

My wife and I watch a lot of the survival shows like Naked and Afraid. Having some experience in primitive survival, you're right, it's the little things that you don't normally think about that will kill you. Getting hypothermia from not being able to get warm with a fire, getting an infection etc. Poor water supply.
Mechanical technology would survive a disaster and unless there was some sort of mass EMP type event, I can't see a lot of other technology failing.

May 24 17 06:44 am Link

Photographer

Connor Photography

Posts: 8539

Newark, Delaware, US

If power failure at home is your concern, it is relative easy and inexpensive to minimize the impact.  I have a decent size generator I can fire up to provide electricity to most essential appliances.  We are relatively self sufficient at home with well water and gas heat.  We have 300 gal water stored in the basement and the generator to support the water pump and the cooking and heating rely on propane.  No doubt it is inconvenient to lose power, but we can survive without power for a long time. 

However natural disasters are the most fearsome.   My heart goes out to those suffer so much from the disasters. Honest speaking, North East United States has been very lucky compared to other parts of the country.  I am so grateful.

May 24 17 06:52 am Link

Photographer

rxz

Posts: 1092

Glen Ellyn, Illinois, US

As a nation we are totally spoiled by reliant electrical energy.  I live in a neighborhood where they planted dead trees to run power lines.  No hurricanes.  Earthquakes here are extremely rare.  Slight chance of a tornado.  The only multiple day outages have been from ice or severely high rain/wind storms downing trees and the power lines.  I now have a natural gas powered whole house generator.

May 24 17 07:53 am Link

Photographer

Looknsee Photography

Posts: 26342

Portland, Oregon, US

My house didn't immediately recover from the power failure:

...  My home theater (admittedly a luxury) hasn't recovered.
...  My whole home audio (also a luxury) isn't working.
...  But most significantly, my phone system stopped working!

The phones are now working, but for a while there, it was nerve wracking -- how can I call for help with no phone?

(Note:  I have an integrated land-line phone system tied into my home security network).

May 24 17 08:07 am Link

Photographer

Risen Phoenix Photo

Posts: 3779

Minneapolis, Minnesota, US

When all else fails there is nothing better that a candle and a good book.

May 24 17 08:16 am Link

Photographer

Managing Light

Posts: 2678

Salem, Virginia, US

Looknsee Photography wrote:
My house didn't immediately recover from the power failure:

...  My home theater (admittedly a luxury) hasn't recovered.
...  My whole home audio (also a luxury) isn't working.
...  But most significantly, my phone system stopped working!

The phones are now working, but for a while there, it was nerve wracking -- how can I call for help with no phone?

(Note:  I have an integrated land-line phone system tied into my home security network
).

This is why I keep a POTS-based, old-fashioned land line telephone around the house.
(POTS = plain ole telephone service)

May 24 17 11:07 am Link

Photographer

Connor Photography

Posts: 8539

Newark, Delaware, US

Managing Light wrote:
This is why I keep a POTS-based, old-fashioned land line telephone around the house.
(POTS = plain ole telephone service)

Cell phone is far more reliable than land line phone.  If your cell tower is out, just get to the next one.  Best to have to two different cell carriers in a household.

May 24 17 11:42 am Link

Photographer

Jerry Nemeth

Posts: 33355

Dearborn, Michigan, US

Connor Photography wrote:

Cell phone is far more reliable than land line phone.  If your cell tower is out, just get to the next one.  Best to have to two different cell carriers in a household.

My land line phone has always been very reliable!

May 24 17 08:38 pm Link

Photographer

Robb Mann

Posts: 12327

Baltimore, Maryland, US

Looknsee Photography wrote:
My house didn't immediately recover from the power failure:

...  But most significantly, my phone system stopped working!

The phones are now working, but for a while there, it was nerve wracking -- how can I call for help with no phone?

(Note:  I have an integrated land-line phone system tied into my home security network).

Cellular systems are actually more reliable nowadays than land-line systems. Most people with lans-lines have their service through the cable company - so no cable no phone. Cellular towers are required to have a battery-backup (usually 25-72hours) to keep them up and running in emergencies. Best system of all is old copper land-line system, which really only exists in any number in more rural areas.

May 28 17 08:07 am Link

Photographer

Jerry Nemeth

Posts: 33355

Dearborn, Michigan, US

I have the old land-line system and I agree that it's the most reliable system.

May 28 17 08:16 am Link

Photographer

IMAGINERIES

Posts: 2048

New York, New York, US

When we had a black out in Manhattan I had to climb 45 floors......Told the concierge that if I didn't call him
in 20mn to call 911....Found a cold bottle of champagne in the fridge....So.....
I am still around!!

Jun 09 17 04:44 pm Link