Lovely Day Media wrote:
I think of it as a compliment.

It would be if the photographer didn't include "in spite of".

Let me give a couple examples:
"She's so intelligent but I have to question her choice in men."
*Start with praise then question the original compliment

"She's a stunner in spite of that nose of hers."

The photographer could have done a song and dance about what a great model she is.  There is no shame in being a plus-sized model (that is what she is).  Some agencies call it curve now.  Whatever on that.  I think the insult was making it seem like her professionalism was "inspiring" despite her size... like the broken nose and bad choice in men.

Get it?

Here's a good one... "Wow, you look so great for your age!"  Um, is my age a problem? lol

Julie Ann NYC wrote:
I wish that we could get to the point where simply being an attractive woman over a size 4 wasn't considered some radical, inspirational act but I guess we're not there yet.

We're not there yet with the LGBT crowd either.  Otherwise, why so many pride parades?  I think people will highlight what seems to be oppressed.  Where's Lady Gaga to explain all of this?

Julie Ann NYC wrote:
A well-intentioned but clueless photographer recently blogged about a shoot with me in a way that I guess was supposed to be complimentary. The entire crux of the piece was that I'm beautiful and professional in front of the camera in spite of my size. (5'11" size 12) and that other woman should look to me as some kind of body positive activist. As if being the size I am is something to be insecure about! The funny thing is, that I rarely think about my weight in my daily life. I eat, I exercise, have a great relationship and before that never struggled to get a date.

I wish that we could get to the point where simply being an attractive woman over a size 4 wasn't considered some radical, inspirational act but I guess we're not there yet. I'm a model. Nothing more, nothing less. Considering that the average American woman is 5'4 and a size 12-14, I'm not even "large" by US standards, unless you count my height. I love my body, but sometimes I hate how overly focused people in this industry are on my size rather than my talent. /rant

I'd be interested in reading that blog post. Curious if I'd interpret it in the same way as you.

I'm assuming you have some time under your belt in "this industry", but it strikes me as odd you seem to find it surprising how focused people are on physical attributes. That is what we deal in! Which is why your "resume" includes such a wealth of details about, wait for it, physical attributes!

I get quite a few comments about my energy level, state of health, stamina, drive and enthusiasm for "someone my age". It is what it is. I've never taken it as some sort of broad based indictment against the near-geriatric photographers. I'm genuinely interested is some background here, which is why I even responded to your post.

Thanks, and please post or message a link to that blog!

Jules NYC wrote:

It would be if the photographer didn't include "in spite of".

Let me give a couple examples:
"She's so intelligent but I have to question her choice in men."
*Start with praise then question the original compliment

"She's a stunner in spite of that nose of hers."

The photographer could have done a song and dance about what a great model she is.  There is no shame in being a plus-sized model (that is what she is).  Some agencies call it curve now.  Whatever on that.  I think the insult was making it seem like her professionalism was "inspiring" despite her size... like the broken nose and bad choice in men.

Get it?

Here's a good one... "Wow, you look so great for your age!"  Um, is my age a problem? lol

I agree with you on the nose part and men part. On the age thing, though, a person may well look great for their age where other people do not. For instance, if a woman (for instance) is 70 years old but looks closer to 35, it could be said that she looks great. For someone who is 35 but looks 70, not so much.

Saying someone is inspiring despite their size, for me, means where other people think of it as a negative (taller, perhaps heavier and with bigger feet), this young lady is okay with it and projects herself as a person who should be looked up to on many levels. I can see how it would be insulting on many levels but I do think of it as a compliment, at least in terms of other people who think negatively of themselves.

It does remind me of a joke ... not that this situation is a joke. A woman is walking down the street one day and sees a really happy looking old man. She approaches him and asks if she can talk to him for a minute. He says yes.

She says .. I've seen a lot of happy people in my life but never seen anyone who looks as happy as you. Can I ask what your secret is?

He says ... it's simple. I smoke 2 packs of cigarettes every day. I also smoke a pack of cigars, drink a case of beer, a fifth of whiskey. I eat all the greasy, fatty foods I can. I don't eat any vegetables and don't get any exercise, either. She says ... wow!! You look really great for your age. Can I ask how old you are?

He says ... certainly. I'm 26.

The point for me is that she was complimenting him on his age and looking so good. When she found out how old he actually was, somehow it turned into an insult (if only in his mind) but she meant it as a compliment. Each person gets to feel how they'd like to feel about varying things, though. We may well disagree but that's part of being an individual IMO.

Lovely Day Media wrote:
I agree with you on the nose part and men part. On the age thing, though, a person may well look great for their age where other people do not. For instance, if a woman (for instance) is 70 years old but looks closer to 35, it could be said that she looks great. For someone who is 35 but looks 70, not so much.

Saying someone is inspiring despite their size, for me, means where other people think of it as a negative (taller, perhaps heavier and with bigger feet), this young lady is okay with it and projects herself as a person who should be looked up to on many levels. I can see how it would be insulting on many levels but I do think of it as a compliment, at least in terms of other people who think negatively of themselves.

It does remind me of a joke ... not that this situation is a joke. A woman is walking down the street one day and sees a really happy looking old man. She approaches him and asks if she can talk to him for a minute. He says yes.

She says .. I've seen a lot of happy people in my life but never seen anyone who looks as happy as you. Can I ask what your secret is?

He says ... it's simple. I smoke 2 packs of cigarettes every day. I also smoke a pack of cigars, drink a case of beer, a fifth of whiskey. I eat all the greasy, fatty foods I can. I don't eat any vegetables and don't get any exercise, either. She says ... wow!! You look really great for your age. Can I ask how old you are?

He says ... certainly. I'm 26.

The point for me is that she was complimenting him on his age and looking so good. When she found out how old he actually was, somehow it turned into an insult (if only in his mind) but she meant it as a compliment. Each person gets to feel how they'd like to feel about varying things, though. We may well disagree but that's part of being an individual IMO.

Hummm.
These days there is a market for a greater age bracket for models.  It's changing.  Same goes for plus sized models.  I've never been sensitive about my age, it's just weird how people add on, "for your age".

Sometimes I'd LIKE to tell my co-workers my age.  Esp. someone who treats me like I'm half her age and she is younger than me.  It cracks me up every time.

I think overall, people look at models as an example of physical beauty.  There's a lot of people that could be models that just don't do it for their profession. What makes a model a model?  Fashion stats, plus-sized stats, a pretty face?  It almost seems like there is no divide anymore.

For whatever it's worth, one can pitch laundry detergent or perfume and still be called the 'model' or 'talent'.

There are some very beautiful women on major pharm brands too.

There is no status in being a model to me.  I don't know, I just look at it as an industry, a job.  I guess to someone who may be insecure with their body, in their own skin can look up to a plus-sized model.  It shows that you can be considered pretty even if you are x sized.  That is the "inspiration" the photographer most likely meant, but couldn't internalize how it could be misconstrued... a person who is modeling, plus-sized and completely cool with it.

At the end of the day, I don't see anything unusual for a plus-sized model to be modeling.  I can't recount how many standard sized models have the same silly story about being a tom-boy.  Ok, you were so persecuted going fishing and stuff, now you're in couture.  lol

Jules NYC wrote:
At the end of the day, I don't see anything unusual for a plus-sized model to be modeling.  I can't recount how many standard sized models have the same silly story about being a tom-boy.  Ok, you were so persecuted going fishing and stuff, now you're in couture.  lol

I don't think there is anything unusual about being a plus sized ... or super thin model. What is unusual is finding a person (a model in this case) who is really good, highly professional AND comfortable in their own skin.

I met a model a few years ago that I thought was really pretty, nice to work with, etc etc. 4 years later, I found out she was extremely uncomfortable in her own skin. She binged on chocolate, had massive migraine headaches, crash dieted a lot, didn't sleep well, etc etc. She also, on the hottest (or coldest) days of the year always wore a jacket or sweater because she thought people were looking at her. I thought they'd look because she was unusually pretty but it made her uncomfortable.

She has since changed her diet, started exercising and taken up a new outlook on life. She started trying to help people with their problems despite having some of her own (no one is perfect). It's working! She has videos she has posted where she isn't wearing a sweater and her arms are showing. She said she used to worry about her weight but now she is 11 pounds heavier than she was but in much better shape and she feels great. I think of her as inspiring .. not because she's a model or plus sized (she's not) or .... really anything else but because she's working, working on herself, attempting to help other people and realizing there is a place in this world where she belongs and fits. I tell her this all the time.

In effect, I think of myself as erecting a virtual statue in her honor (especially since she finished school, too) but I think it's nice for a person to do well in life AND have someone notice and say so. I'm not looking for a date or a hand in marriage but trying to let her know that she is very much appreciated and worth the admiration.

Lovely Day Media wrote:

I don't think there is anything unusual about being a plus sized ... or super thin model. What is unusual is finding a person (a model in this case) who is really good, highly professional AND comfortable in their own skin.

I met a model a few years ago that I thought was really pretty, nice to work with, etc etc. 4 years later, I found out she was extremely uncomfortable in her own skin. She binged on chocolate, had massive migraine headaches, crash dieted a lot, didn't sleep well, etc etc. She also, on the hottest (or coldest) days of the year always wore a jacket or sweater because she thought people were looking at her. I thought they'd look because she was unusually pretty but it made her uncomfortable.

She has since changed her diet, started exercising and taken up a new outlook on life. She started trying to help people with their problems despite having some of her own (no one is perfect). It's working! She has videos she has posted where she isn't wearing a sweater and her arms are showing. She said she used to worry about her weight but now she is 11 pounds heavier than she was but in much better shape and she feels great. I think of her as inspiring .. not because she's a model or plus sized (she's not) or .... really anything else but because she's working, working on herself, attempting to help other people and realizing there is a place in this world where she belongs and fits. I tell her this all the time.

In effect, I think of myself as erecting a virtual statue in her honor (especially since she finished school, too) but I think it's nice for a person to do well in life AND have someone notice and say so. I'm not looking for a date or a hand in marriage but trying to let her know that she is very much appreciated and worth the admiration.

It's nice to see people help themselves. When I get inspired by a person, they are doing or have done something I feel is difficult. It's really difficult for people to accept themselves. I never had that problem but for a person that struggles with identity it's inspiring to see before & after life stories.

As for the OP, you can't expect the entire world to accept changing attitudes society has favored for decades to change overnight. That comes with time & understanding. When you're truly comfortable with yourself, you understand you don't have to wait for it.

Lovely Day Media wrote:
... a woman who carries a little extra weight generally lives longer than the man who mentions it.

Funny guy!

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
Jules:

I think that I do not use the qualifiers like, for your age; for you size; despite your lack of a phD.  Or whatever.     Simply, because if I say it, I mean it, and I do not think people need to hit any score on an arbitrary scale to be an amazing person or look amazing. 

In the interest of my on going sensitivity training, is it offensive to use qualifiers such as (You look amazing) tonight; in that dress; etc..  Am I implying she doesn't look great other times?

Lol "... despite your lack of a PhD"
Sorry, I have to use that one intentionally.

I would never get offended by someone telling me those things according to your sensitivity training. I do however think "you look tired" is usually equated with "you look like shit" lol.

I love people with no makeup and no agendas.
Honestly if I were the OP, I'd comment on the blog as a teaching tool and write it in a way that was truly positive and didn't hurt the feelings of the photographer. Why? I believe the photographer truly meant what she said as a celebratory piece. I bet those little words to demean her size weren't even a thought. Instead of being upset, do something about it and teach someone another perspective with grace.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
So, what adjectives would be appropriate / acceptable / flattering for us to use?  (For future reference...)

It's all how you say it.

Julie Ann NYC wrote:
I don't think it was the photographer's intention, but the end result seemed kind of overly earnest and condescending. At 5'11 and a size 12, I don't feel like a big girl and hardly meet "plus size" standards in the real world. She's a thin woman and trying to be body positive, but I get very wary of photographers using me as their token "fat chick" rather than just accepting me as a professional model. Yes, I'm on the plus board of an agency, but why do I always have to be qualified and defined by my size?

And why do so many photographers think that being the size that I am would be some huge barrier to confidence?

In the real world you may not be plus size but in the modeling world you are and that is OK!

This is interesting.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fashionist … l-size-six

MoRina wrote:
My feeling is that if you are looking for a reason to be offended you will surely find it, in this industry and in life in general.

The OP seems to be the epitome of the proverb, "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

If a person has within them a certain, single instrument (or focus), they may have a confirmation bias to believe that it is involved in everything.

I believe the only response she's looking for (after we've upped the view count on her portfolio) is, "Yes, you've been wronged be people so terribly less enlightened than you".

Still waiting for a link to the blog post...

Julie Ann NYC wrote:
What irks me is when people act like being a size 12 at my height is something to be insecure about in the real world. I guess I would understand if I were larger, but when I tell most civilians I'm a plus size model, they say "You don't LOOK plus size". I'm also one of the smaller girls on my agency board.

I wish that people would just accept that I'm alluring and photogenic on my own merits and not in spite of not being a sample size.

If your agency is marketing you as a curve model who cares if it's another word for plus size? I have to agree with Morina & Still Photography on their points. I don't think the 'real world' will see you as a plus model if that's the norm.

Why care about labels? It's a novel idea if agencies didn't categorize and just submitted as they see fit. As a data analyst/project manager-coordinator web 'guy', I wouldn't like things not being labeled for big projects where many submissions were at hand.

As for confidence and all that, it's personal. Think of being inspirational as cool.

Just curious, are you trying to book a lingerie campaign or just feeling comfortable in your skin?

Jules NYC wrote:
I learned from this thread that the tag "for your age" is not a dig. I never thought it was but just an oddity. The more I think about it, I remember saying myself how fabulous Christie Brinkley looks for her age and she's a supermodel.

I wish that we could get to the point where simply being an attractive person over the age of 50 wasn't considered some radical, inspirational act but I guess we're not there yet. I'm a person. Nothing more, nothing less.

::edit::  As I think about it, I receive provisional compliments all the time.

-You've done pretty well for someone with a community college education

-You're amazingly strong for someone of your size (5'9")

-You're done alright for yourself for raising four kids on only one income.

People contrast and compare as a means of understanding their world and experiences. I think it's more important to understand our own responses to what people "appear" to think of us than it is to denigrate them for having ideas and opinions that don't coincide perfectly with our own.

still-photography wrote:

I wish that we could get to the point where simply being an attractive person over the age of 50 wasn't considered some radical, inspirational act but I guess we're not there yet. I'm a person. Nothing more, nothing less.

I completely agree.

Jules NYC wrote:
I learned from this thread that the tag "for your age" is not a dig. I never thought it was but just an oddity. The more I think about it, I remember saying myself how fabulous Christie Brinkley looks for her age and she's a supermodel.

A dig?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  I suppose it depends on the attitude in which it is delivered.  "He is such an ass for his age."  Hmm.  Does that mean he is more of an ass or is it an excuse?  I think that most people would agree, it doesn't matter how old a person is, if he is an ass, he is an ass.

Christie Brinkley looks good.  She will always look good because she has the features that make a person attractive.  "For her age" equates beauty with youth.  It ain't so!  It just isn't.  It may not be a dig. It may not be meant as a dig, but it is still a qualifier that something is lost that can never be regained, and, therefore, the person is diminished in some way.  Yet the same statement could be applied to a younger person as great expectations to come.  I do not believe that we would think that a statement such as "Christie is so good looking for her age," is going to mean that she is going to better looking in another 10 years, unless we are talking about a 10 or 12 year old girl.

Qualifying a compliment of beauty with "for her age" is an insult on the speaker.  This would mean that it is not the beauty of the person being recognized, it is the disposition to celebrate youth.  Or the inability to separate youth from beauty.

I think adding a qualifier, any qualifier, diminishes the statement and the person. 

Jules, just so you know, I think you are an amazing, contemplative and beautiful person.

Julie Ann NYC wrote:
The funny thing is, that I rarely think about my weight in my daily life.

Just in the forums?

MoRina wrote:
. . .You talk about your size/weight in everything I can remember seeing you post here about.

I'm thinking the same thing.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

A dig?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  I suppose it depends on the attitude in which it is delivered.  "He is such an ass for his age."  Hmm.  Does that mean he is more of an ass or is it an excuse?  I think that most people would agree, it doesn't matter how old a person is, if he is an ass, he is an ass.

Christie Brinkley looks good.  She will always look good because she has the features that make a person attractive.  "For her age" equates beauty with youth.  It ain't so!  It just isn't.  It may not be a dig. It may not be meant as a dig, but it is still a qualifier that something is lost that can never be regained, and, therefore, the person is diminished in some way.  Yet the same statement could be applied to a younger person as great expectations to come.  I do not believe that we would think that a statement such as "Christie is so good looking for her age," is going to mean that she is going to better looking in another 10 years, unless we are talking about a 10 or 12 year old girl.

Qualifying a compliment of beauty with "for her age" is an insult on the speaker.  This would mean that it is not the beauty of the person being recognized, it is the disposition to celebrate youth.  Or the inability to separate youth from beauty.

I think adding a qualifier, any qualifier, diminishes the statement and the person. 

Jules, just so you know, I think you are an amazing, contemplative and beautiful person.

Geez, flattery before 9 in the morning is awesome, ha ha.
Sincerely, thank you!

I agree with what you are saying.  I also think it's all how you say it.  Usually people over 60 don't look crazy good like Christie Brinkley.  When I emphasize her age, it's just incredible to me.  Almost like a what?  60?  No way!  Maybe that's how people truly mean it when they qualify the age.  It's incredible to them that the person they are complimenting can look like they do at x age.

I think it's graceful to internalize 'for your age' thing but to know that it's sincere is great.

As for age itself, there are so many issues that crop up in the workplace with that 'number', it's interesting.  People have deep-seated beliefs about maturity & age and even expertise attached to that number.  These days I don't say anything not to be judged.

I just was able to finish this up here... you know, work 'stuff'.  I got hired sight unseen; I love that.

Jules NYC wrote:
I agree with what you are saying.  I also think it's all how you say it.  Usually people over 60 don't look crazy good like Christie Brinkley.  When I emphasize her age, it's just incredible to me.  Almost like a what?  60?  No way!  Maybe that's how people truly mean it when they qualify the age.  It's incredible to them that the person they are complimenting can look like they do at x age.

"She looks great for her age."  "Even at her age she looks great."   I can see the first meaning something different from the second.  In an auditory conversation, the meaning could be changed- or clear, because of tone.  "OMG, she is as hot as she was when she was a 20 year old!"  That means something else 

Jules NYC wrote:
I got hired sight unseen; I love that.

Did you find a new job?

What?  You aren't flattered everyday before 9?  I can't believe that!  People in NY must be blind.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

"She looks great for her age."  "Even at her age she looks great."   I can see the first meaning something different from the second.  In an auditory conversation, the meaning could be changed- or clear, because of tone.  "OMG, she is as hot as she was when she was a 20 year old!"  That means something else 


Did you find a new job?

What?  You aren't flattered everyday before 9?  I can't believe that!  People in NY must be blind.

Maybe because I live in CT lolololol
You're sweet.

As for the age example, I so get that.  As Jack Weinberg said, "Don't trust anyone over 30."


As for the job, not yet... I got hired where I'm at through a phone interview, that's it.  When you have a face to face interview, they judge you on so many things I feel like I'm sitting in a police interrogation room! ha

/tangent.

Julie Ann NYC wrote:
A well-intentioned but clueless photographer recently blogged about a shoot with me in a way that I guess was supposed to be complimentary. The entire crux of the piece was that I'm beautiful and professional in front of the camera in spite of my size. (5'11" size 12) and that other woman should look to me as some kind of body positive activist. As if being the size I am is something to be insecure about! The funny thing is, that I rarely think about my weight in my daily life. I eat, I exercise, have a great relationship and before that never struggled to get a date.

I wish that we could get to the point where simply being an attractive woman over a size 4 wasn't considered some radical, inspirational act but I guess we're not there yet. I'm a model. Nothing more, nothing less. Considering that the average American woman is 5'4 and a size 12-14, I'm not even "large" by US standards, unless you count my height. I love my body, but sometimes I hate how overly focused people in this industry are on my size rather than my talent. /rant

Your lack of insecurity is the scarcity. The eyecatcher. Your nonchalant attitude toward modelling makes you more attractive.

The photographer wants to see more women like you in scantily clad clothes and provocative settings, and will settle for exalting compliments instead.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but it exists in a world of fiction right now. Its good to get your perspective on things though, but you have to account for the context more.

MoRina wrote:
I get literally hundreds of emails a week on social media telling me how wonderful I look "for my age." I choose to see those as real compliments and not digs. 

My feeling is that if you are looking for a reason to be offended you will surely find it, in this industry and in life in general.

A wise perspective

Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:
There are so many hurtful people who say intentionally disparaging things, I find it hard to get upset by people who are genuinely kind and well intentioned.  But that's just me...

+100

Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:
There are so many hurtful people who say intentionally disparaging things, I find it hard to get upset by people who are genuinely kind and well intentioned.  But that's just me...

I agree.

If you have a good relationship with someone, words take on different meanings; it could be a funny joke; it's all how you say it. Ever have a friend hold a hot plate with no oven mits?  Ok genius.

Ever have the same friend do something incredible?  Wow, you're a genius!

I said, "Lol "... despite your lack of a PhD"
Sorry, I have to use that one intentionally."

This comes in handy when someone is acting superior, being a dick and literally doesn't have a PhD.
I know people with PhDs and they don't even know everything.  Would probably be pretty funny if someone HAD a PhD and did something not that wise.  How's that PhD working out for you?  Sarcastic if you don't know someone, endearing if you do.

If you've never defended yourself verbally, not ever once in life, I commend you.
I have because I know not everyone is genuinely kind and well-intentioned.

In the case for the OP, I completely understood how she took it as a dig.  I've been friends with women that struggled with their weight & absolutely fine with their weight.  Oddly, they were all different sizes, not just in height.  One friend refused to be a plus-model when approached because she didn't like that 'term'.  Silly if you ask me because she could have made a lot of money if I could see into the future.

The reality?  I think the blog was a great compliment to her, that's it. 
Maybe it would be easier to see if certain words weren't used, "in spite of".
Words mean a lot to me; that's just me. 

At the end of the day, if there is too much to be sensitive about, I'd take 'reality' over being a 'model'.  I don't see any difference between the two.  Being a model has standards, even for curve/plus models.  I went on a few well known sites for the requirements of 'plus/curve'.  Couldn't find any, just the individual model pages.  From what I've noticed, mostly women size 10 or higher.

If being a size 10 or higher is shocking to anyone that's not a model, maybe they are not aware that a plus-model can be a size 10.  That's it.  Maybe that's inspiring.