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INSTAGRAM MODELS vs AGENCY MODELS
There is a new trend of Insta-models taking over work of legitimate agency models. I am talking about the girls who are NOT professional models, the girls who not even "fashion" bloggers. Perhaps I am traditional, perhaps it comes from years of personal hard-work experience as a fashion model from my days when I was with Elite & Ford... back in those days, your polaroids where not filtered, you had to meet strict height/measurement requirements and you had to have a professional portfolio of images. Forward to today. Selfies, loads of sexy outfit pics, amateur bikini photos and loads of filtering through various apps - gave us insta-models with huge numbers of followers. In return, clients are now turning to "social influencers" in hope to use their platform for exposure. Many model managements have even started a new division for these girls. Real models don't get the chance they deserve. I have shot a bikini campaign previously for a client where some of the girls where hired directly through instagram purely based on their following, then when they showed up looking completely different - both the insta-models and client expected me to photoshop the life out of images! Also, I have met incredibly beautiful girls who fit all the requirements but who may be too busy, or too private, or just not interested in social media who get tossed at castings because they dont have a "brand" or "social presence". Sure, kids of the rich & famous, celebs and the well-connected may have the golden ticket into the marketing/fashion industry (always been this way) - but hiring someone who is UNQUALIFIED purely because they have good PR is just sad. What do you think??? Its kind of like the majority of artists today; before you had to have real talent plus other abilities like songwriting - playing instruments - dancing... now majority cant sing live without their auto-tuned mics and fancy shows/back up tracks to cover up the reality. Perhaps its never been all about natural talent... perhaps PR has always been key to success... Sep 05 17 07:57 pm Link Everybody deserves a chance to be hired. To me, sounds like your issue is with your clients, not the "insta-models". As far as "loads of filtering through various apps", it's no more common than the heavy-handed editing by some photographers and retouchers. If anything, I find these models don't use filters as much anymore. Their images have more of an organic look and feel to them. Sep 05 17 09:39 pm Link It really just sounds like the world is moving on from what you know and are familiar with, and that you're not comfortable accepting or rolling with that change. Some would say that's a "too bad, so sad" issue, because things change whether we like it or not. You suck it up and get on board, or you become irrelevant. Period. People have been complaining about "kids these days" since the beginning of recorded history. Sep 06 17 01:33 am Link Fitting certain height and size requirements does not a model make entirely. While that is necessary for fashion models, fashion modelling is not the only form of modelling. Posing skill, the ability to emote, fitting a client's brief and being able to accurately communicate the mood, theme and genre of the shoot makes a model more than just X, Y and Z measurements, IMO. Sep 06 17 04:27 am Link Respect to You Karelea with your extensive real world high fashion modelling , and photography experience Thank You for posting this and it would be nice to hear more from you in these forums Sep 06 17 10:35 pm Link KARELEA Photo & Makeup wrote: I think this is a good thing, not a bad thing. KARELEA Photo & Makeup wrote: So what if a few doors are now closed to the tall and the beautiful. Sep 07 17 01:55 am Link maleficadarling wrote: I have always had this thought also. A model to me is someone who can deliver the brief required by the client rather than a very narrow criteria of size, height... Sep 07 17 01:57 am Link KARELEA Photo & Makeup wrote: What do you expect in a world where man puts a price tag on everything? Obviously nothing but marketing using all possible means. Sep 07 17 02:25 am Link Marissa_Ph1 wrote: I don't see it as dumbing down Marissa. I see it as a greater adherence to the lived experience. Sep 07 17 03:56 am Link Instagram modeling is also its own separate thing and culture, that is very specific to IG. There is obviously crossover, but I'd wager that the vast majority of models who become well known on IG, remain on IG exclusively and fail to crossover into acknowledgement on other platforms, or in multiple genres. That being said, I follow a few of the more well known fitness industry/bodybuilding magazines, and I've observed that Muscle and Fitness has begun featuring IG-based female fitness models. Many of these girls have a very NATURAL lean look - of the sort that is attainable through general commitment to diet and exercise, without the use of drugs. In previous years, those same mags tended to elevate and present a look for female fitness models that would not be attainable for most people (especially women) without steroid/drug use. The prominence of IG as a source of models has risen to the point that the depiction of human bodies in prominent bodybuilding mags is beginning to change - moving away from just the IFBB competitors, and into presenting the lives and careers of "daily life athletes." I find this exciting and inspiring, as a personal trainer and recreational athlete. Even 5-7 years ago, you did not find a "practical athlete" featured by places like M&F. The accessibility of these "insta model" looks actually has the potential to inspire people to work out, whereas Arnold types are simply alienating to most, even hardcore fitness enthusiasts generally lack the genetic capacity to attain what was revered by these periodicals up until I GET fitness models came along. Sep 07 17 04:22 am Link One person's, not up to standards is another person's, thinking out of the box. I've no use or any particular liking for corporate control and standards as they relate to people's image so, for right now, I see the instagram thing as entirely positive. It's individuals seizing a little bit of control and monetizing themselves by inventing and promoting their own image and brand. the farther it gets from "industry standards" the more interesting it is to me. It will all be colonized and codified by corporate interests soon enough, but for right now it's fun and a fresh breath of air. Sep 07 17 09:24 am Link You've covered a few things in your opening post. I don't think it's a bad thing that the industry standard is changing and beauty standards are expanding, and the body positive movement certainly gained traction on Instagram (again, not a bad thing). I'm not sure if you were specifically speaking re: fashion as that isn't a genre I know much about. On first sight, I'd have thought that the 5'11 fashion model signed to Elite Models wouldn't be up for the same jobs or going to the same castings as the 5'6 instagram model getting scouted via DM. Maybe the opportunities they're in competition for are commercial? I will say that I've seen "IG models" succeed as brand representatives, just as I've seen small brands suddenly prosper solely via Instagram marketing (ie.The Perfect Sculpt bra) - so it makes sense that they'd use leading figures on the same platform that they capitalize on. I guess it's just good business in an ever-changing world. Plus, many of the instagram figures with large followings end up collaborating with photographers or brands, and end up having professional images in addition to selfies visible in their profiles. I'm not sure if it's all pouts and selfies, although I agree there is a lot of that. Funny enough, many agency signed models (including seasoned ones) have instagram profiles primarily featuring a collection of selfies and anecdotes about what they ate/where they went. The waters are muddied when social media is both personal broadcasting and business. All that said, I have no dog in the fight either way so these are just my observations. This thread is an interesting read. Sep 07 17 09:30 am Link What I think is that it is short sighted to assume that any model not hired through an agency isn't qualified for the project at hand. What constitutes qualified is up to the person doing the hiring. Similarly, I don't believe someone has to be agency represented or full-time to be a real model. A real model is anyone who really models, regardless of how frequently they do so or by what venue they are hired. Certainly the internet has helped the growth of independent modeling, but anyone who wants to, can still hire models through an agency. It's up to anyone hiring models to weigh the advantages and disadvantage of hiring through an agency or independently. Sep 07 17 09:38 am Link i think its more likely that a client will get what they are looking for model wise with an agency than via the social media route Not that Agencies occassionally bump up a models stats a bit ( ie height ) or shave off a few years of age but what i have seen from certain internet models is a bit outrageous 5'3 models claiming to be 5'9 ( forgetting to mention that is only achieved wearing 6 inch heels ) and there is one local model who strangely remains in her mid 20s - the same age as when i met her a dozen years ago If I were a client looking to hire any internet model - I would want to meet them first edit ..... but as a photographer simply looking to do creatives on a trade basis - I just roll the dice and take my chances Sep 07 17 10:43 am Link As Bob Dylan once sang "The times they are a changin'". The paradigm has shifted and it is not inherently good or bad but different, BUT it has shifted! I am a musician as well as photographer and the music industry has experienced a similar shift with the advent of the internet and technology. There will always be those who long for "the old days" whether it be vinyl or film. But guess what, "the good old days" ain't coming back! The one thing that hasn't changed is that it takes a combination of talent AND hard work to succeed in this business. And any non-celebrity who has an Instagram account with 100k plus followers, that did not happen by accident. To get those followers may require a different skill set than in the past, but it is the skill set needed to succeed in today's world, like it or not. Sep 07 17 12:00 pm Link I kinda just see it as the world is moving into a new era and there's a better chance now of finding more diversity. It's new and now and a lot of people do go to social media now a days for just about anything. Sep 07 17 05:58 pm Link I would never consider whether a model has an agency contract or not. In fact, I might consider it a negative, because she might have more strings/conditions attached. Seems like trying to pick a singer based on an appearance on American Idol instead of just getting out there and seeing who can sing. I just seek models who look like they can pose and have some spark of -- animation? Personality? And not on Instagram -- I shun anything related to Facebook-- on Mayhem and through personal connections (some of my models come to me first as figure drawing models). Sep 07 17 07:17 pm Link KARELEA Photo & Makeup wrote: Now I'm curious how "legitimate model" is defined in a free enterprise... I am talking about the girls who are NOT professional models, the girls who not even "fashion" bloggers. Perhaps I am traditional, perhaps it comes from years of personal hard-work experience as a fashion model from my days when I was with Elite & Ford... back in those days, your polaroids where not filtered, you had to meet strict height/measurement requirements and you had to have a professional portfolio of images. You forgot the the envelopes with comp cards carried by courier service straight across the big city... ;-) Forward to today. Selfies, loads of sexy outfit pics, amateur bikini photos and loads of filtering through various apps - gave us insta-models with huge numbers of followers. In return, clients are now turning to "social influencers" in hope to use their platform for exposure. Many model managements have even started a new division for these girls. Real models don't get the chance they deserve. Those are the "real models" of today. Or at least part of them. The times are changing all the time, and who would have expected in 1964 Bobby to ever recieve the Nobel Prize for Literature? I have shot a bikini campaign previously for a client where some of the girls where hired directly through instagram purely based on their following, then when they showed up looking completely different - both the insta-models and client expected me to photoshop the life out of images! Sooner or later the market will decide whether it's worth such difficulties. Also, I have met incredibly beautiful girls who fit all the requirements but who may be too busy, or too private, or just not interested in social media who get tossed at castings because they dont have a "brand" or "social presence". Who cares? Sure, kids of the rich & famous, celebs and the well-connected may have the golden ticket into the marketing/fashion industry (always been this way) - but hiring someone who is UNQUALIFIED purely because they have good PR is just sad. The benchmark is success. And ever have been since the pharaohs got their pyramids errected. "Hey - I am well educated and qualified and now you have to..." does not work and never worked. What do you think??? Same business as ever. Its kind of like the majority of artists today; before you had to have real talent plus other abilities like songwriting - playing instruments - dancing... now majority cant sing live without their auto-tuned mics and fancy shows/back up tracks to cover up the reality. You can sing for the critics and musicologists. Or you can sing for an audience. I read a saying from the scene of street artists some time ago: "The hat never lies." Perhaps its never been all about natural talent... perhaps PR has always been key to success... PR always has, does and will play an important part for having success. Sep 08 17 04:51 am Link Black Z Eddie wrote: I am still disturbed by all these SFLBNs. (Short focal length big nose) Sep 08 17 04:57 am Link Big brands, stores, designers, etc. still mostly use agency models. They do so because they need reliable models with up to date accurate images. IG and Facebook models are fads. While theyare used because they have large followings it's the agency girls and guys who get the bulk of paid work. Nobody wants to deal with no show models or those who are a problem and that is what is a very real possibility with non agency vetted models. OP you have some fantastic images by the way. Sep 08 17 07:49 am Link KARELEA Photo & Makeup wrote: I think it sucks ass. No talent hacks, Youtube make-up "gurus", etc. Garbage. Where's Tila Tequila? Sep 08 17 09:22 am Link Show me the work. If it matches something I want or need, it's a go. If not, move on. Sep 08 17 10:49 am Link I don’t think the OP is complaining about diversity. There’s no question that non-agency models are way ahead of the curve on this and that’s to be celebrated. Likewise I don’t think he’s complaining about the digital revolution putting creative tools in the hands of those who in the past couldn’t afford to participate. What is not to be celebrated, however, is the idea of success (not to mention fame and adulation) coming to anyone without genuine talent, and/or someone who is unwilling to develop that talent through hard work and discipline. It’s not supposed to be instant. It’s not supposed to be easy. There is a depth and integrity that only comes from years and years of paying one’s dues and mastering one’s craft. Sep 08 17 12:50 pm Link Agencys are fighting among themselves again.....i think the Insta Age has created pressure for them to continue to provide the " models" of advertisers .. scouts used to have to hit the streets and wear out the souls of their shoes.....but why when there are so many other places like IG to find them http://nypost.com/2017/09/08/notorious- … y-as-ever/ Sep 08 17 01:48 pm Link crx studios wrote: Totally agree; This is what i was trying to say. Diversity is healthy, Digital technology is a good thing, success through no effort, skill, or real understanding isn't healthy. The Supermodels we see today may have been working hard for years with no recognition and had to possibly endured years of rejection etc before getting a break. Sep 09 17 01:24 am Link Black Z Eddie wrote: TomFRohwer wrote: Therein lies the problem. I think people still assume this is the case. Undoubtedly, it happens, but, the good ones have moved away from it. Sep 09 17 02:12 am Link crx studios wrote: Marissa_Ph1 wrote: May I ask why? Sep 09 17 02:51 am Link I blame Bailey who changed the 60's. Sep 09 17 06:41 am Link crx studios wrote: Success is success. If you need hard work and discipline to have success it is as it is. If you have success without hard work and discipline it is as it is. It’s not supposed to be instant. It’s not supposed to be easy. Success is supposed to be success. Period. There is a depth and integrity that only comes from years and years of paying one’s dues and mastering one’s craft. Why do you think these instagram model would not pay their "dues"? Probably they will pay it much faster than other people because the earn a lot of money sooner and quicker than other people. Sep 09 17 11:38 am Link Derek Ridgers wrote: The well paid supermodels of the "pre Instagram period" earned a lot of money in short time without much developement and yearlong work. They were 22 or 23 and seen by the industry as fitting perfectly to some concept of "supermodels", and got paid for being "supermodels". The industry needs a constant turnover of new blood. 100% ack. Sep 09 17 11:43 am Link Black Z Eddie wrote: What do you think is special with them? Sep 09 17 11:45 am Link TomFRohwer wrote: The word I used was “celebrated”. Why would I want to celebrate (or respect) someone with no discernible talent other than dumb luck and superficial beauty? TomFRohwer wrote: This is an extremely shallow interpretation of what it means to be a success, but if that’s the one you live by, then I agree with you, nothing I’m saying will make the slightest bit of sense to you. Sep 09 17 01:43 pm Link TomFRohwer wrote: They are very appealing. They look happy and real in a real world. They produce high quality images even though they typically don't have a crew. They just run around (sometimes around the world) taking great photos with their sponsored clothing, accessories, etc. If they can do this by themselves, imagine if they did have a crew. I'm just speculating and guessing, but, maybe, maybe, some clients and some agencies are seeing the same thing. Sep 09 17 06:31 pm Link crx studios wrote: Oh by the way ....The OP is a Woman Sep 09 17 10:06 pm Link TomFRohwer wrote: How? Sep 10 17 03:55 am Link Garry k wrote: Doesn't matter. I am completely free of prejudices in this regard... ;-) Sep 10 17 08:01 am Link Derek Ridgers wrote: For me it sounds like: Just over a week ago I had a long conversation with a man who I consider to be one of the UK’s best photographers. My thoughts... He can’t bear the idea that young twenty somethings are now getting the commissions he thinks he could do much better. My words. He may be right. Maybe he could do it a bit better. This game is not and never was about "who is better?" (Besides the fact that after all you previously have to define "better"...) But I said to him _ and this is the point I was trying to make_ "us oldsters had our chances. Now let the younger generation have a go. Even if they are not quite as skilful or experienced as we seem to think we are, it's their time now". I don't even believe this is correct. I'm just shure: she/he who deliveres what is wanted for the moment will get the job. The market is changing all the time. It’s just that I don’t think we should run around chasing work that would be much better being done by a 22 year old. Being 22 instead of being 52 can be an advantage in a market. But it must not be. Sep 10 17 08:19 am Link crx studios wrote: Why the market should care for what you or I like to celebrate. The market only cares for what the majority or at least a sufficient number of customers like to celebrate. Sep 10 17 08:37 am Link Black Z Eddie wrote: That is a matter of taste...For me they are a dime a dozen. But it is completely irrelevant what I think about it. It is important what their customers think about it. They look happy and real in a real world. They produce high quality images even though they typically don't have a crew. They just run around (sometimes around the world) taking great photos with their sponsored clothing, accessories, etc. If they can do this by themselves, imagine if they did have a crew. I'm just speculating and guessing, but, maybe, maybe, some clients and some agencies are seeing the same thing. Maybe. Maybe not. Sep 10 17 08:51 am Link TomFRohwer wrote: This is simply tautologous. Whether one uses the word better or best, the fact remains that some photographers will always be better than others. TomFRohwer wrote: You may not like it and I may not like it but it’s a fact of life. Sep 10 17 11:24 pm Link |
