Miss Page Six wrote:

EXACTLY, but that just proves my point. DONT tell me 5'6 cant do runway and its already being done. Trust me You all WILL be seeing me. Mark my words ;o)

Send me a postcard.

Mandy McKeating wrote:
not trying to start shit, just playing devil's advocate...

i understand the height thing, but why do they have to be stick figures? what makes a size 0-2 model carry the clothes better than, say, a size 4-6 model, assuming both are of the same height?

Maybe it is just me, but a size 4-6 model is generally a little more curvy, yes?  If so, then the outfits would need to be tailored ahead of time (not everyone has curves in the same exact spots.  Size 0-2 have very little curves so cloths can be thrown on and adjusted on the fly easier.  I could be wrong.  Any stylists with runways show experience here?

Envy wrote:

Send me a postcard.

lol Will do

Apfel Photography wrote:

Maybe it is just me, but a size 4-6 model is generally a little more curvy, yes?  If so, then the outfits would need to be tailored ahead of time (not everyone has curves in the same exact spots.  Size 0-2 have very little curves so cloths can be thrown on and adjusted on the fly easier.  I could be wrong.  Any stylists with runways show experience here?

Thats about right

Miss Page Six wrote:

lol Will do

and read this... https://modelmayhem.com/p.php?thread_id=146830

UdoR wrote:
Originally posted on February 11, 2006, revised on January 24, 2007

Since this question seems constantly to come up, I did some extra shots at this current Fashion Week (Fall 2006 Collection) here in New York City (with the purpose of doing an informative thread on my own... soon... but here's the "preview").

The girl in image 1 and 2 is NOT a model, she's one of the finalist designers for "Project Runway", I shot the show on Friday morning... and thought that this is an excellent example for showing the visual effect of "short models" mixed with tall, high fashion models.

The first shows her alone, she's is somewhere around 5'2" and  has actually a pretty face.

The second image shows her walking behind her models, wearing her designs... this shows how funny it would look like if you put a short model into the mix.

The third image is from the show of the designer Chado Ralph Rucci. I shot this image for the purpose of demonstrating the size of the showrooms at major fashion shows... and why very tall models are mandatory, so that the audience far away are able to see the model and the garment she's presenting.

There are actually a few more rows... but I would have cut out the model... and it was necessary for me to demonstrate the room and the model.

In short (pun unintended ), there is a very practical reason WHY runway models have to be tall!

Agencies like to sign models that are versatile and can be used for many different applications..., the more a model is limited (height in this case), the more is the earning capacity limited for the agencies.

It all boils down to economics!

Short "model", finalist of Project Runway, could "pass on her own, if a tad slimmer, but(!)...



... here is the "short model" in comparison to regular runway models... looks funny, doesn't it?!



Putting height and major fashion show in perspective... Would the garment on a five foot model be seen by the fashionistas in the remote seats?

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

UdoR wrote:
Originally posted on February 11, 2006, revised on January 24, 2007

Since this question seems constantly to come up, I did some extra shots at this current Fashion Week (Fall 2006 Collection) here in New York City (with the purpose of doing an informative thread on my own... soon... but here's the "preview").

The girl in image 1 and 2 is NOT a model, she's one of the finalist designers for "Project Runway", I shot the show on Friday morning... and thought that this is an excellent example for showing the visual effect of "short models" mixed with tall, high fashion models.

The first shows her alone, she's is somewhere around 5'2" and  has actually a pretty face.

The second image shows her walking behind her models, wearing her designs... this shows how funny it would look like if you put a short model into the mix.

The third image is from the show of the designer Chado Ralph Rucci. I shot this image for the purpose of demonstrating the size of the showrooms at major fashion shows... and why very tall models are mandatory, so that the audience far away are able to see the model and the garment she's presenting.

There are actually a few more rows... but I would have cut out the model... and it was necessary for me to demonstrate the room and the model.

In short (pun unintended ), there is a very practical reason WHY runway models have to be tall!

Agencies like to sign models that are versatile and can be used for many different applications..., the more a model is limited (height in this case), the more is the earning capacity limited for the agencies.

It all boils down to economics!

Short "model", finalist of Project Runway, could "pass on her own, if a tad slimmer, but(!)...



... here is the "short model" in comparison to regular runway models... looks funny, doesn't it?!



Putting height and major fashion show in perspective... Would the garment on a five foot model be seen by the fashionistas in the remote seats?

Bahaha, is that how I look compared to taller girls? I need to wear high heels more often :-)

Good point, though. Thanks for showing this!

Justine Danielle

Patulla Ebony wrote:
It's a funny picture,  But It looks like she may be the designer..  She 's not wearing anything similar to the rest of the line of clothes in the pic.

Would you mind reading the accompanying text and not just looking at the pretty pictures...

Udor wrote:
Originally posted on February 11, 2006, revised on January 24, 2007

Since this question seems constantly to come up, I did some extra shots at this current Fashion Week (Fall 2006 Collection) here in New York City (with the purpose of doing an informative thread on my own... soon... but here's the "preview").

The girl in image 1 and 2 is NOT a model, she's one of the finalist designers for "Project Runway", I shot the show on Friday morning... and thought that this is an excellent example for showing the visual effect of "short models" mixed with tall, high fashion models.

The first shows her alone, she's is somewhere around 5'2" and  has actually a pretty face.

The second image shows her walking behind her models, wearing her designs... this shows how funny it would look like if you put a short model into the mix.

The third image is from the show of the designer Chado Ralph Rucci. I shot this image for the purpose of demonstrating the size of the showrooms at major fashion shows... and why very tall models are mandatory, so that the audience far away are able to see the model and the garment she's presenting.

There are actually a few more rows... but I would have cut out the model... and it was necessary for me to demonstrate the room and the model.

In short (pun unintended ), there is a very practical reason WHY runway models have to be tall!

Agencies like to sign models that are versatile and can be used for many different applications..., the more a model is limited (height in this case), the more is the earning capacity limited for the agencies.

It all boils down to economics!

Short "model", finalist of Project Runway, could "pass on her own, if a tad slimmer, but(!)...



... here is the "short model" in comparison to regular runway models... looks funny, doesn't it?!



Putting height and major fashion show in perspective... Would the garment on a five foot model be seen by the fashionistas in the remote seats?

"In short (pun unintended  ), there is a very practical reason WHY runway models have to be tall! "

Complete Bollocks!

Fashion and Runway models are tall because that is what the majority of us find attractive.  They are super skinny because of the bastardization of what "we" find attractive.  They are all the "same" size because of the issue of sample size clothing.

It has not a thing to do with being able to "see" the clothes.

If what most of us found attractive where 5'2" models there would be a bunch of 5'10" models on MM bitchin' about how it ain't fair that they exclude tall models!

What we want creates a market...  Fashion fills it.  Unfortunatly that "filling" doesn't happen in a vacuum.  The industry also has a say and often that say is that they want super skinny models... unhealty looking models that most of us find horribly unattractive.  This ultra skinny can be attributed to internal industry tastes not external consumer tastes.

This same reasoning works with why we want "young" female models instead of old ones... you know old... like 28.  Time to retire.

Change the sample size of the clothing and require 5'5"-5'8" models to be similar in proportion to tall models and you would not see an appreciable difference in the photos or a runway show.

Models with odd proportions still would not work no matter the height... legs too long... torso too small... still wouldn't make it.

I know a girl that is a 2 and proportional to a fashion model that is a 4.  Can't tell the difference in photos.

bencook2 wrote:
Complete Bollocks!

Fashion and Runway models are tall because that is what the majority of us find attractive.  They are super skinny because of the bastardization of what "we" find attractive.  They are all the "same" size because of the issue of sample size clothing.

I know a girl that is a 2 and proportional to a fashion model that is a 4.  Can't tell the difference in photos.

Ben... you don't have ANY experience, connection or credibility in this matter, why don't you stick to discussions about Christianity and right wing view points...

Please... do me a favor and stay away from discussions about the logistics of real fashion shows in the largest market in the United States, until you have produced some of them and had to deal with the problems of designing the shows so that the fashion editors get the best views of the garments of the designers you are presenting, who paid you for best visual representation of their garments.

I hate to say that... but, please... delete this unqualified post from this thread and I will delete this "unfriendly correction" of yours.

PLEASE!!!

Or you look as a fool and lose any credibility by any person on MM who is involved in the real word of runway fashion.

Udor wrote:

Ben... why don't you stick to discussions about Christianity and right wing view points...

Please... do me a favor and stay away from discussions about the logistics of real fashion shows in the largest market in the United States, until you have produced some of them and had to deal with the problems of designing the shows so that the fashion editors get the best views of the garments of the designers you are presenting, who paid you for best visual representation of their garments.

I hate to say that... but, please... delete this unqualified post from this thread and I will delete this "unfriendly correction" of yours.

PLEASE!!!

It's nice to know that somethings don't change.

Urdo... "King of NYC fashion". 

How dare I challenge the Monarchy!

I know I am a shitty photographer... but I don't hide behind bravado or self aggrandizement.

__________
self-ag·gran·dize·ment (sĕlf'ə-grăn'dĭz-mənt)
n.
The act or practice of enhancing or exaggerating one's own importance, power, or reputation.

Patulla Ebony wrote:
It's a funny picture,  But It looks like she may be the designer..  She 's not wearing anything similar to the rest of the line of clothes in the pic.

Udor wrote:
Would you mind reading the accompanying text and not just looking at the pretty pictures...

Honestly.  I lol'd.

bencook2 wrote:

It's nice to know that somethings don't change.

Urdo... "King of NYC fashion". 

How dare I challenge the Monarchy!

I know I am a shitty photographer... but I don't hide behind bravado or self aggrandizement.

__________
self-ag·gran·dize·ment (sĕlf'ə-grăn'dĭz-mənt)
n.
The act or practice of enhancing or exaggerating one's own importance, power, or reputation.

Bullshit... first... I have not made a judgement about your photography at all, because that's not point of this discussion!

I am talking from the view point of a NYC runway photographer who is part of a pretty elite crowd of runway photographers that are actually shooting NY Fashion Week for actual media outlets.

Besides that... I am involved in the production of fashion shows, and the biggest one is the Couture Fashion Week as the right hand, house photographer and management of the president of the organizing entity during fashion week for a number of years.

That... dear Ben, has nothing to do with self-aggrandizement, but with the source of knowledge of real world application and not fantasies as they are in your case!

I offered you to delete your post, if you decide to keep it... it's only going to harm your own reputation and shows that you, in fact, have no facts to back up your fantasies...

I make a living in this field and that's my pedigree... so, naturally, people will look at where the info is coming from, and yours is not standing up to what is considered real life.

bencook2 wrote:
It's nice to know that somethings don't change.

Urdo... "King of NYC fashion". 

How dare I challenge the Monarchy!

I know I am a shitty photographer... but I don't hide behind bravado or self aggrandizement.

__________
self-ag·gran·dize·ment (sĕlf'ə-grăn'dĭz-mənt)
n.
The act or practice of enhancing or exaggerating one's own importance, power, or reputation.

you hit the nail right on the head, Ben.  i've rarely encountered someone so insecure (no doubt justified, in this case).

GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:
you hit the nail right on the head, Ben.  i've rarely encountered someone so insecure (no doubt justified, in this case).

"Insecure" is funny since I draw my knowledge from actually working in this field an a daily basis for many years...

You are a "fine art" photographer with no visible connection to the runway fashion industry...

So, in YOUR vast professional experience of casting and producing fashion shows for international designers, what do you tell short models who ask you to cast them for designers that pay you anywhere from $20K to $60,000 for a 20 minutes show, requesting that you find models that are at least 5'10" so that the garments look great? Oh, and if they don't like your choices, they don't pay and you are stuck with the bill and won't get paid.

Are you going to tell your client that they fucked up, because they designed dresses for tall models that can't be worn by short models???

Gaetano, sorry, but opinions like yours are nauseating!

Udor wrote:
... I draw my knowledge from actually working in this field an a daily basis for many years...

your "knowledge", such as it is, is solely that of a competent journeyman -- not an industry guru.  in other words, you're qualified to speak as to the 'what' of the fashion industry, but not the 'why', as your title for this thread (self-aggrandizingly) presumes to do.

Udor wrote:
....Gaetano, sorry, but opinions like yours are nauseating!

that statement makes my point about insecurity.

Miss Page Six wrote:

EXACTLY, but that just proves my point. DONT tell me that 5'6 simply CANNOT do runway and its already being done. Trust me MM, You all WILL be seeing me. Mark my words ;o)

Udor wrote:
....Gaetano, sorry, but opinions like yours are nauseating!

GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:
that statement makes my point about insecurity.

I never, ever said that I am a "guru", ever... but a industry professional... and you are not!

Regarding "insecurity", I am guessing that we don't use the identical language and reasoning.

So, dear Gaetano, answer my question since you are sooo secure in your industry knowledge... what are YOU going to tell those short models when YOU are liable with YOUR income for your decision!

Put up or shut up!

Udor wrote:
Originally posted on February 11, 2006, revised on January 24, 2007

Since this question seems constantly to come up, I did some extra shots at this current Fashion Week (Fall 2006 Collection) here in New York City (with the purpose of doing an informative thread on my own... soon... but here's the "preview").

The girl in image 1 and 2 is NOT a model, she's one of the finalist designers for "Project Runway", I shot the show on Friday morning... and thought that this is an excellent example for showing the visual effect of "short models" mixed with tall, high fashion models.

The first shows her alone, she's is somewhere around 5'2" and  has actually a pretty face.

The second image shows her walking behind her models, wearing her designs... this shows how funny it would look like if you put a short model into the mix.

The third image is from the show of the designer Chado Ralph Rucci. I shot this image for the purpose of demonstrating the size of the showrooms at major fashion shows... and why very tall models are mandatory, so that the audience far away are able to see the model and the garment she's presenting.

There are actually a few more rows... but I would have cut out the model... and it was necessary for me to demonstrate the room and the model.

In short (pun unintended ), there is a very practical reason WHY runway models have to be tall!

Agencies like to sign models that are versatile and can be used for many different applications..., the more a model is limited (height in this case), the more is the earning capacity limited for the agencies.

It all boils down to economics!

Short "model", finalist of Project Runway, could "pass on her own, if a tad slimmer, but(!)...



... here is the "short model" in comparison to regular runway models... looks funny, doesn't it?!



Putting height and major fashion show in perspective... Would the garment on a five foot model be seen by the fashionistas in the remote seats?

Hah. It does look funny. Thank you for sharing this.

Trev Tommasi wrote:
i've noticd that you love to put your two cents into everything udor.

Some people's change is more valuable than others'.

Trev Tommasi wrote:
i've noticd that you love to put your two cents into everything udor.

Is there anything else of substance concerning the issue at hand you'd like to contribute?

Trev Tommasi wrote:
LOL ok thanks, you should make a coffee table book of those ;-)

Udor wrote:

Is there anything else of substance concerning the issue at hand you'd like to contribute?

nope, I completely agree with your orginal post, just saying my thoughts.

Udor wrote:
Is there anything else of substance concerning the issue at hand you'd like to contribute?

Trev Tommasi wrote:
nope, I completely agree with your orginal post, just saying my thoughts.

Okay...

mare-wrath wrote:
i understand why about the height, but HELLO if you put a tall model with a bunch of shorter models like her the tall model would look awfully funny

yeah I guess that's true, but it's true that designer simply don't make clothing that small for high fashion shows :-(

Udor wrote:

Udor wrote:
Is there anything else of substance concerning the issue at hand you'd like to contribute?

Okay...

good.....

Udor wrote:
..... Regarding "insecurity", I am guessing that we don't use the identical language and reasoning.

from a recent thread:

Udor wrote:
..... I will end my discussion with you about this topic.

My time is too valuable for this.

{quiet cough}

... Put up or shut up!

my, my what a macho man! (chuckling)

i can't imagine a scenario in which an aspiring model, of whatever description, would ask my advice on her prospects in the fashion industry.  however, i would not, under any scenario, refer her to you for advice, since bullying women seems to be your forte'.

GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:

Udor wrote:
..... Regarding "insecurity", I am guessing that we don't use the identical language and reasoning.

from a recent thread:

Udor wrote:
..... I will end my discussion with you about this topic.

My time is too valuable for this.

{quiet cough}


my, my what a macho man! (chuckling)

i can't imagine a scenario in which an aspiring model, of whatever description, would ask my advice on her prospects in the fashion industry.  however, i would not, under any scenario, refer her to you for advice, since bullying women seems to be your forte'.

very well put, and agreed!

MelissaLynnette LaDiva wrote:

Such a shame he's out of the brig already. *sigh*