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Photographer
George Lue
Posts: 8,233
Orlando, Florida, US


Now, I know many, if not all of you are new here.  For some of you, you may never look at this forum again, but first impressions are important, right?

Before you post that "Hi I'm New" thread, please, have a look at these suggestions before you click "New Thread!"

First and foremost:  You are NOT America's Next Top Model.  Unless you ACTUALLY are, don't say this unless you want to be ignored or ridiculed.

Second:  Subject Lines.  "Hi, I'm new" "New to MM" "Hey Ya'll" aren't very helpful.  What I'd like to see, and what I would think would help everyone would be something more along the lines of this.

Please make sure you include your location in your title.  If nothing else, please include this.  If you don't have a set location, then please put the location of the area you are most likely to work in down.  This is uber important in my opinion.  This lets people know that you're in their area, and helps generate interest.

Also, if you can, include your profile type.  Photographer, MUA, Wardrobe Stylist, Model etc.  This will help other new people in your area seek you out for your services.

Finally, if you fit a certain genre of... whatever it is that you do, please include that as well. 
Photographers:  Bondage, Event, Family, Fashion, Hobbyist, Portrait, Professional
Models: Alternative, Commercial, Fashion, Goth, Plus-Sized
MUA: Airbrush, Beauty, Body Paint, FX, Theater
Wardrobe Stylist: Cosplay, Costume, Fashion, Period, Theatric

These are merely suggestions, I'm sure there are many more categories for all of us.

Now to put those three sub-points together, I will create an example:
"Hobbyist Photographer from Florida"
"Alt Model from Los Angeles"
"Body Painter working in London"


And so on.

Three: Content.  Most people hope to drive hits to their page when they post in the Newbie Forum.  "Check me out" isn't going to cut it.  Think of your post as a miniature bio.  If you've ever done something like an elevator pitch, this is a great time to practice.  If you haven't, allow me to explain.

You walk into an elevator, and who is there but *gasp* Steven Spielburg.  You have very little time, and you need to make yourself known quickly.  You have 30 seconds to pitch yourself to him.  There's no time for idol worship, just promote yourself.

You should first introduce yourself, and what your intentions are on this site.
Then, list your goals.  Anything you wish to achieve as a member.  Be realistic, please.
Then follow it up with what kind of people you'd like to work with and mention any kind of related work you've done in the past.  If you're fresh, then no worries, that's what the MM is here for.

Finally: Maintaining your thread.  Don't disappear.  Check back and see if anyone has posted.  People often have suggestions for your portfolio and bio page.  Take this with a grain of salt, as everyone will have their own opinion.  However, if you do notice a certain thing that many people hit upon, you may want to take a look at that aspect of your profile and make necessary changes.

If you're a model, MUA, or Wardrobe Stylist and people balk at you for having MySpace type pictures, this is not a problem, provided you get them replaced by better ones soon.  That's what this site is for.

If you're a photographer and you have camera phone pictures, please have an awesome reason as people WILL say something about it, and you'd better be prepared.

Now, if you're reading this, you should also make sure you read CLT's Survival Guide for Newbies

But, seeing as you're reading this, you probably already have.
Nov 05 07 10:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68,937
Orlando, Florida, US


Nice post George  smile
Nov 05 07 10:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SammieD Photography
Posts: 125


x2
Nov 05 07 10:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
George Lue
Posts: 8,233
Orlando, Florida, US


SLE Photography wrote:
Nice post George  smile

I have a feeling it won't make much of a difference, but if just a few people benefit from this, I'd be happy.

I wish I'd seen something like this when I posted.

My Thread topic was "Just Another GWC" and I got a reasonable number of hits.
http://modelmayhem.com/p.php?thread_id=164195

I followed most of my own rules, other than the thread title, though.

Please notice, however, my title does not include the word "NEW"

Nov 05 07 10:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NYCOV
Posts: 126
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I agree, location in the Title should be mandatory when posting.
Nov 05 07 10:39 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Qhloe
Posts: 413
New York, New York, US


Great post...let's see if it helps...
Nov 05 07 03:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
George Lue
Posts: 8,233
Orlando, Florida, US


I actually think people are reading this.

GLEE!
Nov 05 07 06:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
George Lue
Posts: 8,233
Orlando, Florida, US


Bump
Nov 06 07 10:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
T H Taylor
Posts: 6,724
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US


There should also be a suggestions thread for "mid level to advanced posters" as well. 
I am frequently disappointed at the rude and discourteous manner in which many newbs are treated by our forum "welcoming committee" just because they committed some minor, and in most cases UNWRITTEN Model Mayhem thread infraction...  It's old, boring and is denigrating to the reputation of this site. I guess the bully mentality has been successful in schoolyards since human interaction began; it's just unfortunate that an activity that so many are wanting to participate in is only successful at creating and encouraging assholes... I just don't get it.

Why is it so hard for some to understand and perpetuate the old adage:  "Do unto others...etc.?"
Bottom line:  People need to chill out (uh oh... better go get your "Urban Dictionary") and guide the newbs.  This site can be a bit confusing at first but, there's a lot to offer if one is given the chance to explore without fear of reproach or, just making the local vultures angry and restless.
Nov 06 07 11:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fotographia Fantastique
Posts: 17,323
Lebanon, New Hampshire, US


Good post.

My #1 pet peeve with newbie posters though, is the tendency to POST ALL IN CAPS.

THAT IS VERY ANNOYING.
Nov 06 07 11:38 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Spiro Scindo
Posts: 725
Maseru, Maseru, Lesotho


Where were you when I first posted?  I was having a clueless day and this kind of direction is amazingly helpful! 

I'm going to go re-intro myself now....
Nov 06 07 12:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
George Lue
Posts: 8,233
Orlando, Florida, US


bump
Nov 07 07 04:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Your Average Joe
Posts: 419
Warsaw, Illinois, US


When I was new I didn't know what was going on. I actually deleted Tyler as my friend because I didn't know who King Tyler was!

It would have been nice to receive a "welcome packet" similar to a "read me first" pdf you get with new software.

I would have kept Tyler.
Nov 07 07 04:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Victoria Vertuga
Posts: 4,897
Los Angeles, California, US


T H Taylor wrote:
There should also be a suggestions thread for "mid level to advanced posters" as well. 
I am frequently disappointed at the rude and discourteous manner in which many newbs are treated by our forum "welcoming committee" just because they committed some minor, and in most cases UNWRITTEN Model Mayhem thread infraction...  It's old, boring and is denigrating to the reputation of this site. I guess the bully mentality has been successful in schoolyards since human interaction began; it's just unfortunate that an activity that so many are wanting to participate in is only successful at creating and encouraging assholes... I just don't get it.

Why is it so hard for some to understand and perpetuate the old adage:  "Do unto others...etc.?"
Bottom line:  People need to chill out (uh oh... better go get your "Urban Dictionary") and guide the newbs.  This site can be a bit confusing at first but, there's a lot to offer if one is given the chance to explore without fear of reproach or, just making the local vultures angry and restless.

A-f*@%$in-MEN. Seriously. I feel like I've started to see a fair amount of posts with people being nicer and more encouraging, but there are soooooooooo many instances where people are ready and waiting to JUMP on someone!!!!!

Nov 07 07 04:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
T H Taylor
Posts: 6,724
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US


Victoria Vertuga wrote:

A-f*@%$in-MEN. Seriously. I feel like I've started to see a fair amount of posts with people being nicer and more encouraging, but there are soooooooooo many instances where people are ready and waiting to JUMP on someone!!!!!

It's tiny "pee pee" or "gigantic giner" syndrome.
wink

Nov 08 07 01:13 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Kelsey-leigh
Posts: 3,777
Calgary, Alberta, Canada


tongue hopefully these kids listen!!
Nov 09 07 02:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
George Lue
Posts: 8,233
Orlando, Florida, US


allicette wrote:
tongue hopefully these kids listen!!

This won't stay bumped long enough for anyone to actually read it. sad

Nov 09 07 11:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
George Lue
Posts: 8,233
Orlando, Florida, US


Rise from your grave!
Nov 12 07 12:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PhotoDr
Posts: 918
Arlington, Virginia, US


Fotographia Fantastique wrote:
Good post.

My #1 pet peeve with newbie posters though, is the tendency to POST ALL IN CAPS.

THAT IS VERY ANNOYING.

#2 - Rotate your F*ing pictures! It's not art.

[edit]

#3 - Why do you have blury pcs in your port? Its still NOT art!

Nov 12 07 10:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
George Lue
Posts: 8,233
Orlando, Florida, US


Pikachu!  I choose you!
Dec 06 07 02:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
-Nicole-
Posts: 19,180
Madison, Wisconsin, US


Hmm. I wonder how many newb rules I've broken...

In addition...I hate when the "veteran" members make stupid assumptions about newbs. Congrats, you've been here for years...and? You were a newb one time as well.

I'm not going to respect anyones high post count.
Dec 06 07 02:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Cynthia B
Posts: 375
Fort Myers, Florida, US


Ooooh, I think I remember putting in my title "Newbie from Florida" or something like that but George, you are the man! You should get an award for this! *bows down*
Dec 06 07 02:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
George Lue
Posts: 8,233
Orlando, Florida, US


Mz Snow wrote:
Hmm. I wonder how many newb rules I've broken...

In addition...I hate when the "veteran" members make stupid assumptions about newbs. Congrats, you've been here for years...and? You were a newb one time as well.

I'm not going to respect anyones high post count.

Out of curiosity, what would you consider a "High" post count?

Dec 06 07 02:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
-Nicole-
Posts: 19,180
Madison, Wisconsin, US


3,000+

I should clarify, that a high post count wont determine my respect for someone, it's how you treat me (obviously)

I get that on other forums I visit, where people walk around high and mighty because they've been there a long time and their post count is through the roof.
Dec 06 07 02:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
George Lue
Posts: 8,233
Orlando, Florida, US


Mz Snow wrote:
3,000+

I should clarify, that a high post count wont determine my respect for someone, it's how you treat me (obviously)

I get that on other forums I visit, where people walk around high and mighty because they've been there a long time and their post count is through the roof.

Most of the people here don't think of their post count as a measure of their skill.

At least I hope not.

Dec 06 07 02:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
-Nicole-
Posts: 19,180
Madison, Wisconsin, US


No no. The people I've here come across have been very nice. I have been on forums though that base their popularity on their post count, along with treating newbies badly.
Dec 06 07 02:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MC_
Posts: 3,525
Austin, Indiana, US


Mz Snow wrote:
No no. The people I've here come across have been very nice. I have been on forums though that base their popularity on their post count, along with treating newbies badly.

If this is about the post a few minutes ago. I didn't mean to treat you badly, I apologize.
I have been on this site for only 5 months. But, the critique forum is not the place to to laugh at people and post irrelevant, immature comments. I learned that from reading the rules on the site, and I suggest new members do the same.

I wish you the best of luck on MM Mz Snow.

Dec 06 07 03:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MC_
Posts: 3,525
Austin, Indiana, US


Good thread!

T H Taylor wrote:
There should also be a suggestions thread for "mid level to advanced posters" as well. 
I am frequently disappointed at the rude and discourteous manner in which many newbs are treated by our forum "welcoming committee" just because they committed some minor, and in most cases UNWRITTEN Model Mayhem thread infraction...  It's old, boring and is denigrating to the reputation of this site. I guess the bully mentality has been successful in schoolyards since human interaction began; it's just unfortunate that an activity that so many are wanting to participate in is only successful at creating and encouraging assholes... I just don't get it.

Why is it so hard for some to understand and perpetuate the old adage:  "Do unto others...etc.?"
Bottom line:  People need to chill out (uh oh... better go get your "Urban Dictionary") and guide the newbs.  This site can be a bit confusing at first but, there's a lot to offer if one is given the chance to explore without fear of reproach or, just making the local vultures angry and restless.

QFT

Dec 06 07 03:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
George Lue
Posts: 8,233
Orlando, Florida, US


Mz Snow wrote:
No no. The people I've here come across have been very nice. I have been on forums though that base their popularity on their post count, along with treating newbies badly.

Some newbies DO get stomped, but mostly for not reading the rules or being particularly or willfully ignorant.

Dec 06 07 03:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SunArcher Photography
Posts: 7,669
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Mz Snow wrote:
I hate when the "veteran" members make stupid assumptions about newbs.

Such as? Folks here can only go off of what you give us. We're not mind-readers. For all but about four people on here, I only know you from what you put in your profile, your portfolio, and your forum posts.

Mz Snow wrote:
Congrats, you've been here for years...and? You were a newb one time as well.

I don't understand this sentiment. Yes, we were all new once. But that still didn't give us the right to come in like we had the cure for cancer. EVERYONE has to be humble (or be humbled) when they start out, regardless of your confidence level. And that's what a lot of new people don't quite grasp yet. They come in not knowing the difference between pizazz/youthful exuberance and downright ignorance or arrogance as to how this works. And the "welcoming committee" is there to humble them, as it did me. Better now than later, I guess. But that's just me.

Mz Snow wrote:
I'm not going to respect anyones high post count.

Well, that's a personal decision. Those "high post counts" show at the very least experience with the Model Mayhem forum. And while we all have certain goals we want to reach with our careers, the fact that we're doing it at Model Mayhem requires a certain amount of knowledge of how Model Mayhem works.

Dec 06 07 03:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Cynthia B
Posts: 375
Fort Myers, Florida, US


This is why I love you, Tre! Spoken like someone who has some experience with the forums....lol BTW, call me!
Dec 06 07 03:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
-Nicole-
Posts: 19,180
Madison, Wisconsin, US


I just had a run in on another forum that I belong to that has nothing to do with modeling.

I was more or less ranting about that.

As I've mentioned, I've been treated very well since joining here, and I haven't seen anyone being mistreated because they are new.

Should of clarified. smile
Dec 06 07 03:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SunArcher Photography
Posts: 7,669
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Mz Snow wrote:
As I've mentioned, I've been treated very well since joining here, and I haven't seen anyone being mistreated because they are new.

See? We're not all bloodhounds! lol I hope you continue to enjoy the Mayhem, Wisconsin.

Dec 06 07 03:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
-Nicole-
Posts: 19,180
Madison, Wisconsin, US


Lol, thanks.

I actually went back to my intro thread and was like...

"wow...I missed a lot from the rules"

Live and learn smile
Dec 06 07 03:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
George Lue
Posts: 8,233
Orlando, Florida, US


Mz Snow wrote:
Lol, thanks.

I actually went back to my intro thread and was like...

"wow...I missed a lot from the rules"

Live and learn smile

These aren't rules... just more like... guidelines.

Dec 06 07 03:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SunArcher Photography
Posts: 7,669
Washington, District of Columbia, US


T H Taylor wrote:
I am frequently disappointed at the rude and discourteous manner in which many newbs are treated by our forum "welcoming committee" just because they committed some minor, and in most cases UNWRITTEN Model Mayhem thread infraction...

I must humbly disagree with you here. Most of the time, the "violation" is written clear as day in the very first post in the Newbie Forum (the Survival Guide from CLT). In addition, CLT did a great job in describing the types of people here (wolves, rabbits, etc), and it's nothing more than people being lazy. Point blank. Didn't read, didn't even check the place out. When you move into a new house, you at least want to know where the rooms, walls, and electrical outlets are before just moving stuff in. Now I will give you the fact that there are some assholes here. Straight up. Trolls. And more often than not, when they are beating up on a newb, there's someone just as, if not more, experienced telling the troll to ease up.

T H Taylor wrote:
It's just unfortunate that an activity that so many are wanting to participate in is only successful at creating and encouraging assholes... I just don't get it.

I get it crystal clear, and it comes from adminning other forums on the Internet. There's a difference between being an asshole and stating the truth. The BIGGEST problem BY FAR that I've seen on this site is people who don't want to take advice or criticism, especially newer people. I'm no expert on the industry by a long shot, but if someone asks my opinion, and I give it to them, and it's not what they want to hear or expect to hear, that's not my fault. You asked, I answered. But that's the half of it. It's folks who are TELLING you that the industry of which you want to be a part works a certain way and then you get all defensive and whatnot.

If I want to shoot glam photography, and here I am telling Ransom J how it works, he's gonna kick my ass, and he's gonna probably call some buddies, and they're gonna kick my ass, too. If I want to go shoot for an agency, and Roger (TXPhotog) is sitting here TELLING me what I need to do or what I SHOULD TRY to do, and I get all huffy and defensive, how is he SUPPOSED to react? It's THOSE things, in my opinion, that turn people into assholes. Thinking that you can watch "The Shot" or "America's Next Top Model" or read a couple of Internet sites and then all of a sudden BOOM, you're hot ish and want to project that onto folks who have BEEN THERE, DONE THAT.

T H Taylor wrote:
Why is it so hard for some to understand and perpetuate the old adage:  "Do unto others...etc.?"

Depends on your demeanor. Given a choice, I'd rather someone tell me the truth in a harsh way than to lie to me in a nice way. But above all else, I want someone to tell me the truth. Saves me money and time in the long run.

T H Taylor wrote:
This site can be a bit confusing at first but, there's a lot to offer if one is given the chance to explore without fear of reproach or, just making the local vultures angry and restless.

Absolutely agree here. All one has to do is not worry about the local vultures; they're probably not going to work with you anyway. But EACH OF US determines who the local vultures are. What I perceive as someone who has told a 5'1" 175 lb newb nicely THREE TIMES that she has no chance at high fashion in Milan or Paris before having to forcefully say it about two more times, someone else will see as being mean.

I understand your sentiment, Mr. Taylor. I felt the same way at one point. Until I talked to the experienced folks (not necessarily those with high post counts). Away from the Mayhem, either in person or on the phone. Learned a LOT. THAT's why I joined this place: to network. I only give a damn so much because I COME into the Newbie Forum. I come and say hi and offer a beer and let the Canadians know that I root for the Alouettes. smile I SEE the mistakes made. And I try to help. Sometimes even I have to get forceful with someone who doesn't want to listen.

Damnit. I wrote a book again. AAAARGHH! lol

Dec 06 07 03:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
T H Taylor
Posts: 6,724
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US


SunArcher Photography wrote:

T H Taylor wrote:
I am frequently disappointed at the rude and discourteous manner in which many newbs are treated by our forum "welcoming committee" just because they committed some minor, and in most cases UNWRITTEN Model Mayhem thread infraction...

I must humbly disagree with you here. Most of the time, the "violation" is written clear as day in the very first post in the Newbie Forum (the Survival Guide from CLT). In addition, CLT did a great job in describing the types of people here (wolves, rabbits, etc), and it's nothing more than people being lazy. Point blank. Didn't read, didn't even check the place out. When you move into a new house, you at least want to know where the rooms, walls, and electrical outlets are before just moving stuff in. Now I will give you the fact that there are some assholes here. Straight up. Trolls. And more often than not, when they are beating up on a newb, there's someone just as, if not more, experienced telling the troll to ease up.

T H Taylor wrote:
It's just unfortunate that an activity that so many are wanting to participate in is only successful at creating and encouraging assholes... I just don't get it.

I get it crystal clear, and it comes from adminning other forums on the Internet. There's a difference between being an asshole and stating the truth. The BIGGEST problem BY FAR that I've seen on this site is people who don't want to take advice or criticism, especially newer people. I'm no expert on the industry by a long shot, but if someone asks my opinion, and I give it to them, and it's not what they want to hear or expect to hear, that's not my fault. You asked, I answered. But that's the half of it. It's folks who are TELLING you that the industry of which you want to be a part works a certain way and then you get all defensive and whatnot.

If I want to shoot glam photography, and here I am telling Ransom J how it works, he's gonna kick my ass, and he's gonna probably call some buddies, and they're gonna kick my ass, too. If I want to go shoot for an agency, and Roger (TXPhotog) is sitting here TELLING me what I need to do or what I SHOULD TRY to do, and I get all huffy and defensive, how is he SUPPOSED to react? It's THOSE things, in my opinion, that turn people into assholes. Thinking that you can watch "The Shot" or "America's Next Top Model" or read a couple of Internet sites and then all of a sudden BOOM, you're hot ish and want to project that onto folks who have BEEN THERE, DONE THAT.

T H Taylor wrote:
Why is it so hard for some to understand and perpetuate the old adage:  "Do unto others...etc.?"

Depends on your demeanor. Given a choice, I'd rather someone tell me the truth in a harsh way than to lie to me in a nice way. But above all else, I want someone to tell me the truth. Saves me money and time in the long run.


Absolutely agree here. All one has to do is not worry about the local vultures; they're probably not going to work with you anyway. But EACH OF US determines who the local vultures are. What I perceive as someone who has told a 5'1" 175 lb newb nicely THREE TIMES that she has no chance at high fashion in Milan or Paris before having to forcefully say it about two more times, someone else will see as being mean.

I understand your sentiment, Mr. Taylor. I felt the same way at one point. Until I talked to the experienced folks (not necessarily those with high post counts). Away from the Mayhem, either in person or on the phone. Learned a LOT. THAT's why I joined this place: to network. I only give a damn so much because I COME into the Newbie Forum. I come and say hi and offer a beer and let the Canadians know that I root for the Alouettes. smile I SEE the mistakes made. And I try to help. Sometimes even I have to get forceful with someone who doesn't want to listen.

Damnit. I wrote a book again. AAAARGHH! lol

Your opinion is poignant and noted; we will agree to disagree.

For the record:  I have been on this site for over two years...

Bottom line
People would never do, say the things or, act as they do to others in the "real world like they do here (hidden safely behind the huge, anonymous veil of the Internet.).
Kind of "Chicken shit" and sad if you ask me.

Dec 06 07 09:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SunArcher Photography
Posts: 7,669
Washington, District of Columbia, US


T H Taylor wrote:
Your opinion is poignant and noted; we will agree to disagree.

For the record:  I have been on this site for over two years...

Bottom line
People would never do, say the things or, act as they do to others in the "real world like they do here (hidden safely behind the huge, anonymous veil of the Internet.).
Kind of "Chicken shit" and sad if you ask me.

Your experience with this site, and the opinion formed by it, are duly noted and respected. I can only give my opinion based on my admittedly short time here and the conversations I've had away from MM about MM.

And I am fully aware of folks who act every bit as they do here. I'm one of them. But I'm just a loose cannon like that. And people that know me know it. Some I know are actually SUBDUED compared to their real-life experiences and what they have to deal with in that real world. But I understand your sentiment and as a matter of generalizing, I would tend to agree.

Dec 07 07 05:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JohnnyK
Posts: 381
Calabasas, California, US


Let's get back to the most important thing in a Newbie's, posting

   LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION
Dec 08 07 11:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Blue Ash Film Group
Posts: 9,298
Cincinnati, Ohio, US


I think the time of day that you post your "newbie" thread is important also. I posted mine at night and only had about five responses even though I mentioned many of the fora regulars in my OP. If you want to take a look, here it is: http://www.modelmayhem.com/p.php?thread_id=198703 .I think I would have had more people meet me if I had posted earlier in the day.
Dec 08 07 12:12 pm  Link  Quote 
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