K -- O wrote:
I've been tossing around the idea of getting one ... I'm getting tired of lugging around this big generator.

http://www.innovatronix.com/detailpage. … egoryid=42

You will love it.  Cheaper, better design, and faster recharging of strobes.

Gregory
www.stormfactory.com

Gregory Storm wrote:

http://www.innovatronix.com/detailpage. … egoryid=42

You will love it.  Cheaper, better design, and faster recharging of strobes.

Gregory
www.stormfactory.com

Thanks Gregory ... I've had my eye on those as well.

Gregory Storm wrote:
http://www.innovatronix.com/detailpage.asp?productid=358&categoryid=42

You will love it.  Cheaper, better design, and faster recharging of strobes.

Gregory
www.stormfactory.com

/drool

Gregory Storm wrote:

http://www.innovatronix.com/detailpage. … egoryid=42

You will love it.  Cheaper, better design, and faster recharging of strobes.

Gregory
www.stormfactory.com

are these things suitable for any monolight? i've read about issues relative to voltage, power, blah blah blah...that's why the Zeus and other Vagabond are so expense.  They are specifically suited for lights and the power drawn.

Gregory Storm wrote:

http://www.innovatronix.com/detailpage. … egoryid=42

You will love it.  Cheaper, better design, and faster recharging of strobes.

Gregory
www.stormfactory.com

Thanks Gregory, great info

mrbeagle wrote:
damn, now you post that link after I already ordered

Doh!  :-)  Sorry.  You should have asked before hitting the submit payment button.  Not saying you're not getting a good choice with the Vagabond.  Especially now that they have made improvements.  I just know that after reading this review of the Tronix Explorer last year (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/conten … -7883-7908) I was sold.

I never worry about power anymore.  Just make sure to get the one with the bag because they ship it ready to go.  You open the box, pull out power pack already inside the nice carrying bag.  The power cord, cigarette adapter, and manual are already in the pockets.  Plug and play at its best.

oscar rabeiro wrote:
are these things suitable for any monolight? i've read about issues relative to voltage, power, blah blah blah...that's why the Zeus and other Vagabond are so expense.  They are specifically suited for lights and the power drawn.

Here is a quote from the review of the Tronix Explorer 1200ws at http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/conten … -7883-7908

Using the Tronix Explorer 1200

Using the Tronix Explorer 1200 is straightforward. Turn it on, plug in an AC-powered strobe and start shooting. With Elinchrom strobes, recycle time and overall performance has been better than expected.

In our testing, the 600w/s Elinchrom Style 600 S (115 V version) will, when connected to AC wall power, recycle after a full power burst in about 2 seconds. When the power source is a fully-charged Tronix Explorer 1200, recycle time is about 3.5 seconds, though the recycle time soon settles in at about 4 seconds. After 100 full power bursts, we measured a recycle time of 4.5 seconds. By the 250 full power pop mark, 7 seconds.

With the strobe set to 300w/s, recycle time held steady at about 1.9 seconds through 100 flash bursts (we didn't test the strobe at this power setting beyond 100 flash bursts). This compares to about 1.1 seconds when the Elinchrom Style 600 S is plugged into AC wall power.

Glad I could help!

Gregory
www.gregorystorm.com

oscar rabeiro wrote:
are these things suitable for any monolight? i've read about issues relative to voltage, power, blah blah blah...that's why the Zeus and other Vagabond are so expense.  They are specifically suited for lights and the power drawn.

*sigh*  What do you mean by "specifically suited for lights"?  There is no such thing, it's just AC electricity.  The only special thing about it is that its output is not modified sinewave (like cheapo inverters), but "true" sinewaves.  Even that, though, is nothing special.

Yes, the Innovatronix is suitable for all non-digitally controlled monolights and packs.  There is absolutely nothing special about the AB's Vagabond, it's just another packaged true sinewave inverter set you can build yourself for about 60% of the price.  And they also over-exaggerated (using funny specs again) its power output in the beginning.  They no longer advertise the Vagabond II as having a 900W inverter (instantaneous power, yes, but not continuous, everyone else rates their inverter by continuous power output).

Do they teach what AC and DC are in high school science classes?

lll wrote:

*sigh*  What do you mean by "specifically suited for lights"?  There is no such thing, it's just AC electricity.  The only special thing about it is that its output is not modified sinewave (like cheapo inverters), but "true" sinewaves.  Even that, though, is nothing special.

Yes, the Innovatronix is suitable for all non-digitally controlled monolights and packs.  There is absolutely nothing special about the AB's Vagabond, it's just another packaged true sinewave inverter set you can build yourself for about 60% of the price.  And they also over-exaggerated (using funny specs again) its power output in the beginning.  They no longer advertise the Vagabond II as having a 900W inverter (instantaneous power, yes, but not continuous, everyone else rates their inverter by continuous power output).

Do they teach what AC and DC are in high school science classes?

remove stick from ass...just a question.  They also teach French and shop in high school...what's your point?

DiamondCreek wrote:
I've got the Vagabond II.  It has worked great on location.  The only problem I had with when something fell against it in my van and switched it on.  It was extremely hot when I noticed it.  I just knew I'd fried the whole thing.  I took it all out of the bag, let it all cool down, reassembled everything and charged it up.  Still works like a champ.

My recommendation is to always use the inverter out of any casing unless it has good ventilation.  Any TSW inverter circuit invaraibly has high bias current and will get hot.

oscar rabeiro wrote:
remove stick from ass...just a question.  They also teach French and shop in high school...what's your point?

It was not directed specifically at you, because this kind of statement has been made many times by many people.

The point is why people think that there is anything magical about providing normal AC power to something.  The requirements are similar, except that strobes tend to have a spikey, but yet exponentially decaying draw for current, and even that is nothing special.  And why people would think that the Vagabond is so "special" because it's "made for strobes".  It's NOT.  It's just another tsw inverter rated at 300W.

And honestly, this Vagabond thing has been talked about twenty thousand times, and I have explained it many many times, how it works, why it was over-hyped, even the difference between MSW and TSW with illustrations.  (Use the Search Function to find it).  I even explained why these boxes don't work on digitally-controlled strobes, with illustrations.

I am utterly stunned at the level of simple scientific knowledge of the population.  I personally learned these things when I was in "high school" back in Scotland.  I don't know what high school here teach in Science class any more, I only know that my students (at a top engineering school) had dismal training before they got to my classes.

lll wrote:

It was not directed specifically at you, because this kind of statement has been made many times by many people.

The point is why people think that there is anything magical about providing normal AC power to something.  The requirements are similar, except that strobes tend to have a spikey, but yet exponentially decaying draw for current, and even that is nothing special.  And why people would think that the Vagabond is so "special" because it's "made for strobes".  It's NOT.  It's just another tsw inverter rated at 300W.

And honestly, this Vagabond thing has been talked about twenty thousand times, and I have explained it many many times, how it works, why it was over-hyped, even the difference between MSW and TSW with illustrations.  (Use the Search Function to find it).  I even explained why these boxes don't work on digitally-controlled strobes, with illustrations.

That's why I asked.

fair enough...but please realize, as with most people i imagine, i don't 'search' for posts, but do participate if they are brought up.

your educating people is very honorable..thank you for that...

DiamondCreek wrote:
I've got the Vagabond II.  It has worked great on location.  The only problem I had with when something fell against it in my van and switched it on.  It was extremely hot when I noticed it.  I just knew I'd fried the whole thing.  I took it all out of the bag, let it all cool down, reassembled everything and charged it up.  Still works like a champ.

lll wrote:
My recommendation is to always use the inverter out of any casing unless it has good ventilation.  Any TSW inverter circuit invaraibly has high bias current and will get hot.

I shoot with it in the bag with the bag open.  I've not had any problems with heat build-up while shooting, but I'm not a high-volume, one right after the other shooter, either. 

The incident I spoke of occured quite by accident.  It was on in a closed bag with other items on top of it.  Something fell against the top of the bag and tripped the switch.  An obvious improvement would be a guard over the switch or a rigid top on the carry bag.  Either of those things would likely have prevented the incident that I had.

If I see that I'm going to do a lot of fast back-to-back shooting in the future, I'll be sure to take the inverter out of the bag or at least keep a close eye on it.

Rob

Acme Photography wrote:
I know for sure that the Tronix is faster than the old Vagabond.  The new AB / WL may beat it... but I'm not sure.

I do know that I love my Tronix.  Here are 2 shots using my Tronix for the main light. (photogenic 1250 w/ a beauty dish)

You can see the Unit in this photo. (I shopped out the power cord)




I did one shoot downtown in phoenix using two white lightning monolights and got over 250 photos out of running both lights on 2/3 to 3/4 each. Defiantly check out this unit if you want studio lighting on location:

http://dwarfurl.com/c7d0d -specs, etc

Later,
Adam N.
http://acmephotography.net

Great first post Adam!  Welcome to the forum.

I love my little Tronix bag too.

Gregory
www.gregorystorm.com

oscar rabeiro wrote:

are these things suitable for any monolight? i've read about issues relative to voltage, power, blah blah blah...that's why the Zeus and other Vagabond are so expense.  They are specifically suited for lights and the power drawn.

not to bash this thing since ive never heard of it before, but its about $10 cheaper than the vagabond...so price isnt really a factor in choosing between the two, just performance.

lll wrote:

*sigh*  What do you mean by "specifically suited for lights"?  There is no such thing, it's just AC electricity.  The only special thing about it is that its output is not modified sinewave (like cheapo inverters), but "true" sinewaves.  Even that, though, is nothing special.

Yes, the Innovatronix is suitable for all non-digitally controlled monolights and packs.  There is absolutely nothing special about the AB's Vagabond, it's just another packaged true sinewave inverter set you can build yourself for about 60% of the price.  And they also over-exaggerated (using funny specs again) its power output in the beginning.  They no longer advertise the Vagabond II as having a 900W inverter (instantaneous power, yes, but not continuous, everyone else rates their inverter by continuous power output).

Do they teach what AC and DC are in high school science classes?

So the Innovatronix is suitable for packs too? I can plug my Acute 2400 into one if I need power? Cool.

lll wrote:
It was not directed specifically at you, because this kind of statement has been made many times by many people.

yeah, it's a marketing thing just like other "must have" stuff that get's posted here on the site.

I was suprised to find the original AB powerpacks just had a motorcycle battery with a regular inverter... nothing special about that.

Alex Minkin Photography wrote:

not to bash this thing since ive never heard of it before, but its about $10 cheaper than the vagabond...so price isnt really a factor in choosing between the two, just performance.

I thought I was the only one that noticed that.  The Vagabond II is $299...

Jabari Hunt wrote:
I thought I was the only one that noticed that.  The Vagabond II is $299...

It's less if you have an old one. If you bought a Vag I after July, 2005, you can get the new one at 25% off.

Alex Minkin Photography wrote:
not to bash this thing since ive never heard of it before, but its about $10 cheaper than the vagabond...so price isnt really a factor in choosing between the two, just performance.

When I bought mine last year the Vagabond (the new Vagabond 2 didn't exist) was more expensive than today's price and the performance was not as good as the Tronix.

With that said, if I had to buy another power pack I would still buy another Tronix.  It's that good.  Plus the Tronix powers all types of strobes (and fans and laptops) and not just Alien Bee products.  Where the Vagabond states "The Vagabond II is designed specifically for powering Paul C. Buff, Inc. products and we cannot make any claim for suitability with products from other manufacturers, nor can we accept any liability for any damage that might be caused to such equipment. "

I don't know if Alien Bees has caught up on the orders of the Vagabond 2, but the Tronix Explorer is IN STOCK.

Gregory
www.gregorystorm.com

John Ng wrote:
So the Innovatronix is suitable for packs too? I can plug my Acute 2400 into one if I need power? Cool.

They have a compatibility list, but mostly it's compatible with all flashes that are not digitally controlled.

http://www.innovatronix.com/compatib.asp

Gregory Storm wrote:
With that said, if I had to buy another power pack I would still buy another Tronix.  It's that good.  Plus the Tronix powers all types of strobes (and fans and laptops) and not just Alien Bee products.  Where the Vagabond states "The Vagabond II is designed specifically for powering Paul C. Buff, Inc. products and we cannot make any claim for suitability with products from other manufacturers, nor can we accept any liability for any damage that might be caused to such equipment."

They want you to buy Bees light to use with the Vagabond, of course they would say that, and also to cover their asses.  It's just another TSW inverter.  It was specifically "tested to work" with Alien Bee products is more like it.  It would work just fine with other strobes, including all that the Tronix would work with.

Seriously, there is no magic.  It's just 110V electricity with current limiting circuitry.

Gregory Storm wrote:
I don't know if Alien Bees has caught up on the orders of the Vagabond 2, but the Tronix Explorer is IN STOCK.

According to posts on their forum, they're just about caught up.  I think by next week they'll have worked through their back order.

Personally I think this whole thing is a good example of how competition causes companies to innovate and both increase quality and decrease price.  Sounds like at this point either unit will do the job nicely at the same price.  I'd just as soon get the Buff unit if only because of their service reputation and the new ground fault circuitry, but I think it's silly to badmouth anybody who gets either unit.

Gregory Storm wrote:

http://www.innovatronix.com/detailpage. … egoryid=42

You will love it.  Cheaper, better design, and faster recharging of strobes.

Gregory
www.stormfactory.com

looks a lot cooler too.  The older vag (even the new one) are tacky as hell.

Gregory Storm wrote:

http://www.innovatronix.com/detailpage. … egoryid=42

You will love it.  Cheaper, better design, and faster recharging of strobes.

Gregory
www.stormfactory.com

Has anyone used one of these with a Novatron strobe system?  Or, do you know if they can be used with the Novatron power packs?

R Michael Walker wrote:
If it's not magical can you explain to me why my old Photogenic Power Lights (600 W/s) work on the Vagabond pack but become disco strobes on the new V2 I just received? And they are NOT digital either so something is rotten in Rotterdamn. Guess It will just be limed to my AB ringlight and the old pack will have to keep splitting my 2 Photogenics..i was unhappy but at $160 something I paid for it I am NOT returning it. And yes I sucked in HS AND college mechanical science..I was good with theoretical science though. LOL!

2 weeks after I got it, my V2 started to act like that about 30 minutes into a session using two B800's. They drew enough current to melt the contact points on the back of the inverter.  The model lights were NOT on and I allowed ample time to recharge between shots.  Alien Bee's replaced mine in 3 days.

They are building these things as fast as they can and I think a few defective units slip by from time to time.

I would suggest sending it back for replacement.

lll wrote:

*sigh*  What do you mean by "specifically suited for lights"?  There is no such thing, it's just AC electricity.  The only special thing about it is that its output is not modified sinewave (like cheapo inverters), but "true" sinewaves.  Even that, though, is nothing special.

...

Actually, there are some things to be concerned about.

In particular, what does the inverter do when it is presented with the high peak current draw as all your strobes simultaneously try to recharge?

1) Some inverters shut off
2) Some inverters revert from a true sine wave to a modified sine wave
3) The Vagabond maintains a true sine wave, but reduces voltage

If you are using Paul Buff lights, you want option 3.

You should also look at the convenience of the unit.   Does it come with a battery charger?  Is the battery charger integrated or separate?  Is everything convenient to carry and use?

There is also the safety issue of grounding the unit.   From a safety standpoint, you either need to ground the inverter or use a GFCI.   Newer Vagabond II units have a built in GFCI.   Although Paul Buff lights are suitable for use with a GFCI, some other brands may not be suitable.

Yes, I know that many people use inverters without grounds and live to tell, but it isn't the best of ideas.   Not everyone uses safety goggles when they work with power tools (at least they don't use them until they want to protect their remaining eye)

Michael Fryd wrote:
Actually, there are some things to be concerned about.

In particular, what does the inverter do when it is presented with the high peak current draw as all your strobes simultaneously try to recharge?

1) Some inverters shut off
2) Some inverters revert from a true sine wave to a modified sine wave
3) The Vagabond maintains a true sine wave, but reduces voltage

If you are using Paul Buff lights, you want option 3.

You should also look at the convenience of the unit.   Does it come with a battery charger?  Is the battery charger integrated or separate?  Is everything convenient to carry and use?

*sigh*  Seriously.  Whatever.

Most TSW (I'd venture to say all) that I know of that include a current limiting circuit is a 3.  The first Vagabond is an Off-the-shelf Samlex inverter, for goodness sake.  And that applies to all strobes, not just Paul Buff lights.  To "revert to a MSW", you need to design and build a separate circuit, I have never seen such a dumb engineering design.

The rest of those so-called convenience...is called "buy a bag" and "buy a charger" with the battery.  I walk across the street and in five minutes that's accomplished.  But I can see the value of having everything in one "bag".  It is convenient, and it is worth a few dollars.

As for the GFCI stuff, I never heard anyone scream and yell about that when the first Vagabond came out!  And it's just the cheapest Samlex unit they included.  Now all of a sudden because they have an on-board GFCI it's such a big deal.  Explain?

I swear I really should just stop writing on these forums.  What's the point?  Marketing is great, people love hearing it.

Go buy the Vagabonds.  The new one is actually fairly good value for money (unlike the old one).  I never said it's bad, I just want people to know that it's NOTHING SPECIAL.  It's something that has been done for YEARS.