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question about lights...
so, right now I have 4 alien bees...they're all I've ever used and I bought them one at a time over the past 4-5 years - - I've always been disappointed in the modeling lamps in the units and I went to a studio that had photogenics and I was really impressed.. Lately, I've found myself disappointed with the consistency of the flash and that they're so delicate - I think that I'd like to start getting photogenics but my questions are this: Can I start with one flash and use it as my main with the ab's still working as accents and kickers? Do I need something else with the photogenics - the other guy had this box thing that the cords plugged into?? ab's just plug into the wall, so I'm not sure what I was seeing.... Am I going to need different faceplates for my soft boxes etc? I'm going to research all of this further on my own but thought if anyone knew photogenics and could help that would be great.... also, if not photogenics, any recommendations? thanks! Julia Dec 21 07 10:22 pm Link You are going to get a lot of people who love their Alien Bees, and the fact is they are great lights for the money. I happen to use Photogenics myself. I also own some White Lightnings (same company as Alien Bee) and prefer them. However, I am not going to tell you what to get in terms of lights but will answer your question. If you buy Photogenics new, they will come with a UV adjusted tube which is a different temperature than the Alien Bees. My suggestion is to order them with the standard tube so the light temperature will be closer. Beyond that the lights should be fine together. Bear in mind that the Photogenics will cycle faster than the Alien Bees. If you are using the Photogenic as your benchmark, be sure to give it a little longer for the Alien Bees to fully cycle. Dec 21 07 10:28 pm Link Wow... far as I'm concerned AB & Photogenics are in almost the same league. If you want something better I'd say go all the way and pull the trigger on some Profoto action. Personally I have Hensel's and I enjoy them... but in retrospect I'd get Profoto. BTW I have a couple ABs too. They have their place. Pretty work BTW. Dec 21 07 10:29 pm Link The Photogenics will take a different speed ring than the AB's. You might get some color temp difference between the 2. Photogenics come in a pack or monolight set up, you can add head or monos as you go. If you are already invested in AB speed rings you might consider going with White Lighting, better light you still get the good Paul Buff service. Dec 21 07 10:32 pm Link I did a short video on the differences of different lighting equipment. Although the video isn't specific to this question it does address some of your concerns. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w9SO9zHF3Q I'll be creating a video that shows how to mix different types of light equipment very soon. I'll let you know when that video is posted. I hope this helps. -Mark Dec 21 07 10:38 pm Link Cool vid... Dec 21 07 10:43 pm Link capturecharacter wrote: Wow, I find that hard to believe. Photogenic has a lower grade of lights which is about the same as Alien Bees but the powerlight series is definitely a step above. Dec 21 07 10:49 pm Link Julia, The most important thing regarding light purchases is this to me... others will have differing opinions but the keys are... Durability Constancy Available Modifiers Price. I recently got rid of an old White Lightning Zap 800 and a Photogenic 1250PL. Both worked great. I switched to Elinchrom and here is why. Elinchrom has a large system of Accessories at reasonable prices. Price is reasonable. I am not talking the D Lites either, although I will probably pick up a couple for a lightweight travel pack. There are quite a few dealers available as well. One of the key factors was money. The price was right. Now, there are two other options that I considered. Profoto - They are the best I have ever used and have plenty of modifiers. The price is more than I am willing to spend right now. When I have excess money, the system I have now will get switched over though. Another option that is more budget friendly is Speedotron. Speedo's are workhorses and while the new packs are pricy ( not as much as PF by far ), there is a great deal to be saved in the modifiers, which they make quite a few and they are relatively cheap. You can go old school speedo cheap too. I purpose bought a speedo blackline 2400 WS pack off ebay for 150.00 last month. I got a good 102 head for about half price new as well, and it is in great shape. Picked up a beauty dish and a deep throw reflector for good prices from BH. Why Mix this with my Elinchroms? It is a purpose light - When I need to overpower the Sun, I can do it on the cheap! Now, this is not to say Alien Bees or any other system is inferior. The only person who can ever tell you that, is yourself, thru experience. Dec 21 07 10:56 pm Link Chip Willis wrote: I totally agree. In fact I'd go a few steps further and list 9 things that I believe are important: Dec 21 07 11:09 pm Link I've used white lightning units for about 15 years and never had a problem. Not one. These were the older "ultra" units. Now I've got several newer X1600's and X800's. Nothing but trouble. I've sent one back for repair every couple of months since I've owned them. I have one Alien Bee unit so far so good but I use it rarely. Very rarely. It's built cheaply and I don't think I'd trust it as my main set of lights. Now I have some Profoto monlights that I use as my main lights and use the white-lightnings and alien bee as background lights etc. It pains me to say this because I think Paul Buff really used to make amazing strobes. And their customer service is second to none. But I need to trust my lights and I've written to them about this. They know how unhappy I am about their new generation of lights. I've told them I would no longer recommend them to anyone. So here I am...not recommending them. Spend more and get lights that will offer better consistency and better overall performance. Until White-Lightning/AlienBees gets their act together I can no longer recommend their products to anyone. The only light I've ever owned that's worse is Elinchrom's D-light. Complete waste of money. Dec 21 07 11:16 pm Link Julia Gerace wrote: Yup. You may want to check the color temperature of the different lights (in their current modifiers) to make them what you want--either consistent or deliberately different. Julia Gerace wrote: Most Photogenics are monolights, in that they have all the components in the head. The other major type is a pack and head setup, where the controls and capacitors are separate from the light head itself. (Mark Wallace's video explains the difference.) Julia Gerace wrote: Yes. Different brands of lights use different attachments. Fortunately, in most cases, you can just get a different insert for a particular speedring and switch between them that way. Dec 21 07 11:47 pm Link I do a lot of location shoots so durability is very key to me. I haven't used any other brand other than Profoto but I can attest to their robust design. On two separate recent shoots, my assistants dropped the heads on cobblestone and concrete both without the protective transport caps. The first time nothing happened to the head but the reflector was a little marred. Second and most recent time, the head hit concrete protective glass first. It was smashed, but the flashtube and modeling light were safe. Secondly, the choice of modifiers are very important. Besides durability, ease of use and set up will save you time setting up. Dec 21 07 11:58 pm Link Shelby Chan Photography wrote: Ouch. Do your assistants take a beating as well as your Profotos can? Dec 22 07 12:31 am Link You might want to consider just bumping up to White Lightning. 250W modeling lights, they're tough, and they take all the same accessories as what you already have. So it's totally painless to buy them one at a time and then sell off the bees as you get extras. That's what I did, anyway. Dec 22 07 12:50 am Link Brandon Ching wrote: It goes against their pay:) Dec 22 07 12:53 am Link "Dont tase me bro" Shelby Chan Photography wrote: Dec 22 07 02:10 am Link Can I start with one flash and use it as my main with the ab's still working as accents and kickers? Yes. Do I need something else with the photogenics - the other guy had this box thing that the cords plugged into?? ab's just plug into the wall, so I'm not sure what I was seeing.... Nope, they work the same way as the 'bees. Am I going to need different faceplates for my soft boxes etc? Yes. BTW, I have 5 photogenics and used to have a 'bee when they first came out. But I bought a couple of used Photogenics off eBay and sold the 'bee. eBay is a great place to buy Photogenics once you know what to look for. Paul Dec 22 07 02:28 am Link Howard Petrella wrote: I'm still using my Ultras after 13 yrs still they continue to work great Dec 22 07 02:37 am Link Julia Gerace wrote: i bought the ringflash from alienbees because it was $700 to $1000 like my friends- the light is AMAZING. very impressive, strong enough for just about anything and I can't be happier. Dec 22 07 02:41 am Link capturecharacter wrote: While the OP is talking about Photogenic power pack with which I have no experience. I do use Photogenic Poerlight Monolights and they are heavy metal beasts unlike the plastic (I Know..it's supposed to be TOUGH) plastic of the ABs. They are about more powerful at the same AB wattage rating. I have the AB ringlight and love the light but hate the cheap build and the beyond cheesy mount. It's 320 W/S but when I use it with the Photogenics also set at 320W/S the power is much more according to my flash meter AND the shot. Also, recycling time at the same W/S is much quicker..to use Abs with Photogenic Monolights you'd have to be cutting the Ab's power in half to come close to keeping up. And then it's actually much less power than that due to the over rating of the ABs. So I'd say NOT to mix and match them. Dec 22 07 02:52 am Link Mark Wallace Photo wrote: Very nice video for beginners. Good job. Dec 22 07 03:41 am Link capturecharacter wrote: Oh really! I'm seriously considering buying three Hensel 500w pro plus monolights. On paper they're everything the compact 600's are, everyone that uses them talks very highly of them however as awesome as their pack and heads systems are, i've heard alot of compaints about the compact 600's? Dec 22 07 04:22 am Link AB's are Great for the buck..........I stepped up to White Lightnings and are great..... The Photogenic Digilights are serious professional hot lights that, for once, are custom designed for still photographers and not for cine/video guys. I found almost nothing not to like, except for the awkward and somewhat flimsy light stand mounting clamp. The handle for the clamp canât turn all the way around, since the body of the light interferes. A slightly shorter handle would fix this problem and they are same temp. as Alien Bees......... Dec 22 07 04:29 am Link You can increase the wattage of the Alien bee lights to 150 with the Sylvania Halogena lamps from Home Depot for about $4 each. The tech rep at Alien bees says for short periods of time 250 watt ones can be used. I have a friend who has been using 200 watt reading lamps for the last 3 or 4 years in his and his are on all day long in his old time photo studio. He has not had any bulb burn out or any AB problems. His are on 8 hours a day every day. He does not use the lamps as strobes only as constant light sources. Dec 22 07 04:49 am Link Profoto = Yum. I've got a bunch of AlienBees, used White Lighting a lot in the past, and they all work ok. Depends on what you want and whether you can get that look with a certain setup. If you get a look you like, then don't switch. Personally, I love the profoto stuff because I can control the light a lot better. Higher quality modifiers, more control at the pack, etc. A single D4 power pack is around $6,500 though, and then like $750 a head. Compared to $350/monolight for AB's...it's hard to justify the extra cash even for a gotta-have-it person like me. Dec 22 07 05:04 am Link Mark Wallace Photo wrote: Excellent videos. Thanks! Dec 22 07 05:06 am Link Can I start with one flash and use it as my main with the ab's still working as accents and kickers? Yes. As long as there is an optic slave, you can use either as your master or slave. However you will be mixing color tempuratures, speed of lights, and strength of light so you'll need to do adjusting as you develop your kit. Do I need something else with the photogenics - the other guy had this box thing that the cords plugged into?? ab's just plug into the wall, so I'm not sure what I was seeing.... No. PG's plug into the wall just like your toaster  Am I going to need different faceplates for my soft boxes etc? Yes. You can order these from their website I own photogencis and I love them. They travel well, are easy to use, are reliable and extremely affordable. The color is relatively consistant however I have a very mild magenta cast which can be corrected with gels or WB in RAW. I currently have 4 1/2 lights (one needs to have a strobe replaced after I dropped it) with umbrellas, spot diffuser, and a backrgound reflector. You can see more of the work I've done with them here: Men: https://www.modelmayhem.com/pics.php?id=495108 Women: https://www.modelmayhem.com/pics.php?id=142764 Please let me know if you have any questions! Dec 22 07 05:24 am Link AB's take all the Balcar accessories -- hard to imagine any company with more stuff. AB's will also take UV tubes. (all mine are UV) it is a extra $20 at time of purchase. Yes you can mix and match. (probably will not see any differences) I have mixed a matched many brands as did the rental department where I worked. Dec 22 07 05:33 am Link julia your trippn your pictures our hot i would say your bees do you great justice. I shoot alien bees and have not had one problem with them thay shoot fast and all day. I will upgrade to the white lightings for the metal bodys next. never had to use the customer service yet so i have to go by what i here. like i said your work is great so the bees must be great look at your ports work. if its just the model lamps that bug you its taken you a long time to figure that out. maybe a change is needed but its such a small thing. I would keep my bees Dec 22 07 06:07 am Link Mark Wallace Photo wrote: These were well put together! Kudos to you! They are MUCH more professional than the other videos on youtube. Dec 22 07 06:39 am Link Michael Donovan - Mens wrote: Thanks! The videos are obviously put together for beginners and I hope they help out. I created them for my workshops and figured I'd share the love. Dec 22 07 11:54 am Link Mark Wallace Photo wrote: Dec 22 07 12:07 pm Link Mark Wallace Photo wrote: wonderful video series Dec 22 07 12:08 pm Link I would get some Cinegel UV filter to use over your AB's. I think you will find a n improvement in your colr balancing and the skin tones will improve with a grey balance based on there color. If you are shooting models you really want UV filtered lights. Also, Black line Speedotron is a great way to go for strobe. Tuff, durable, very price competetive. I have no problem buying used of Speedo equipment if it looks to be in decent shape. They do have UV and nonUV so you do need to ask. Dec 22 07 12:29 pm Link I just want to thank you all for the great advice!!! very much appreciated! Dec 22 07 07:53 pm Link I use one light, 90% of the time. I love the Speedotrons, but after having used the ProFotos in LA last week, hmmmm, I may have to invest in the Acute ProFotos. I was impressed by the consistency, and power in such a small power pack. Dec 22 07 07:55 pm Link If you drive a high-end Mercedes or Jaguar, then you're likely in the Profoto market, and I'm damn jealous. The Speedotron gear will likely beat you to death before you beat it to death. Very heavy and rugged equipment. I'll throw another name out there. Dyna-lite. Manufactured in Jersey City, no frills, bare-bones, but quite well made. Both monolights and power pack set-ups, AC or battery powered. Might be worth it to rent a kit cheaply at Alkit for the weekend (1 day rental end of day Thurs-Mon morning). I've used these several times and am very impressed. http://www.dynalite.com/ Dec 22 07 08:07 pm Link Mark Wallace Photo wrote: great points Mark. Dec 23 07 12:34 am Link You are going to get just as heated a discussion as when we start to talk about Nikons and Canons. I've used a 1200 w/s Speedo Black line for almost two years. I bought it used and so far NO problems. It powers three Speedo 105 heads and I can do pretty much anything I've tried to do. Speedotrons were recommended to me by another photographer as being indestructible. Since I shoot on locations, I needed something I could throw in the trunk of my car and even keep there between shoots. I even keep the heads in a padded case in the trunk and all seems well and good. The attached picture was taken with a single Speedo head at 1200w/s firing through a 12" translucent globe. The picture was outdoors at night.  What ever system you decide to buy be sure to get a radio controlled system to fire them. Never hook up a digital camera to one of these power supplies as a short can fry the electronics in the camera. Dec 23 07 01:26 am Link If you mix you will want to consider setting white balance every time you adjust your strobes. You should probably feel that way anyhow. Moreso with mixed lighting. Dec 23 07 01:30 am Link |
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