Photographer
Casper Munoz
Posts: 119
Fresno, California, US
I had a model come to me recently complaining about another photographer and his shady actions. But the one thing that he did was asked her to sign not a model release, but a form that gave him permission to submit her photos to Maxim, Playboy, and FHM and he also asked to make a photocopy of her drivers lisence.
Now i could see if the girl was clearly young looking, but he knew she was of age and also knew she has a young teenage child. So clearly it couldnt have been for his purposes, but she asked me, i was dumbfounded, so i ask you... why would he need a copy of her drivers lisence?
Photographer
rb stevens
Posts: 385
Austin, Texas, US
I sell images for stock. The agencies that I sell through require a model release and if the image has any nudity they require a copy of the model's ID for proof of age, no matter how old he/she is.
Photographer
Leo Howard
Posts: 6850
Phoenix, Arizona, US
I dont find it shady at all, doesnt matter how young or old she looks, better safe than sorry to have proof of age.
If you get hired by a company for a job, they will require 2 forms of ID for the I-9 form I think it is.
Photographer
CK2 Photography
Posts: 744
Sacramento, California, US
well it does aid in porving that she filled out the form.Often times in situations where a consent/release form/contract type agreement is made whether it be in photography or not.Certian people will ask to make a photocopy of the persons ID.
Its a solid way of proving beyond just a scribbled signature.And if the shots are actually being used by such publications for content then I can see why the photog would want to cover all their bases by doing that.It may just be a routine thing.I know I have thought about doing that recently just as an extra form of security.Its often done like that in alot of tattoo shops when someone is getting a tattoo.And depending on the district it is often a state or district requirement.So really its not that odd of a thing
Photographer
Magnus Hedemark
Posts: 4281
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
If the model looks even remotely like she could be a minor, and the content of the shoot has any nudity or suggestiveness to it, I'm taking a photograph of their D.L. This covers my ass, number one. Number two, as has been previously stated, I need to prove to some potential buyers that I did due diligence to ensure that the model is not a minor.
Photographer
Paul Bryson Photography
Posts: 48041
Hollywood, Florida, US
Casper Munoz wrote:
I had a model come to me recently complaining about another photographer and his shady actions. But the one thing that he did was asked her to sign not a model release, but a form that gave him permission to submit her photos to Maxim, Playboy, and FHM and he also asked to make a photocopy of her drivers lisence.
Now i could see if the girl was clearly young looking, but he knew she was of age and also knew she has a young teenage child. So clearly it couldnt have been for his purposes, but she asked me, i was dumbfounded, so i ask you... why would he need a copy of her drivers lisence? Having a copy of a model's ID saved me from a mistaken identity case last week...some dude thought I was using one of his pictures, and I've never met him. When I saw his pics, I realized why he made that mistake: He looks identical to one of the models I shot earlier this year. Of course, now he wants to work with me. 
Everyone has a look-a-like. That's why it's important to keep a copy of each model's ID.
Photographer
Hipgnosis Dreams
Posts: 8943
Dallas, Texas, US
Casper Munoz wrote:
I had a model come to me recently complaining about another photographer and his shady actions. But the one thing that he did was asked her to sign not a model release, but a form that gave him permission to submit her photos to Maxim, Playboy, and FHM and he also asked to make a photocopy of her drivers lisence.
Now i could see if the girl was clearly young looking, but he knew she was of age and also knew she has a young teenage child. So clearly it couldnt have been for his purposes, but she asked me, i was dumbfounded, so i ask you... why would he need a copy of her drivers lisence? You have been here for 2 years and don't know the answer to that?
At this point, the question is not "am I being too paranoid?"
The question is now "am I paranoid enough?"
I check ID's regularly. I will also take a photo of the model holding up their drivers license if there is anything even remotely sexual coming up during the shoot.
Photographer
K E S L E R
Posts: 11574
Los Angeles, California, US
Hell I'd be lucky to work with anyone younger than 19.  So no need to copy ID for me.
Model
Janice Marie Foote
Posts: 11483
rb stevens wrote:
I sell images for stock. The agencies that I sell through require a model release and if the image has any nudity they require a copy of the model's ID for proof of age, no matter how old he/she is. Yup!
Model
Janice Marie Foote
Posts: 11483
K E S L E R wrote:
Hell I'd be lucky to work with anyone younger than 19. So no need to copy ID for me. For nudes it's always best! Even implied and topless ones.
Photographer
glamour pics
Posts: 6095
Los Angeles, California, US
Casper Munoz wrote:
I had a model come to me recently complaining about another photographer and his shady actions. But the one thing that he did was asked her to sign not a model release, but a form that gave him permission to submit her photos to Maxim, Playboy, and FHM and he also asked to make a photocopy of her drivers lisence.
Now i could see if the girl was clearly young looking, but he knew she was of age and also knew she has a young teenage child. So clearly it couldnt have been for his purposes, but she asked me, i was dumbfounded, so i ask you... why would he need a copy of her drivers lisence? It's proof of age; it shows good faith on the photographer's part if there's a question about age; it's required by law if photos are explicit or bondage or spanking (see 18 USC 2257, 2256); it's required by produce on any revealing or nude photos because of the vagueness of 2257 and 2256; it's a protection against shakedowns by models and/or their 'managers' later... and those are only a few of the reasons.
Photographer
Frank McAdam
Posts: 2222
New York, New York, US
I always ask for valid ID with proof of age no matter what the model's age.
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Casper Munoz wrote:
but a form that gave him permission to submit her photos to Maxim, Playboy, and FHM and he also asked to make a photocopy of her drivers lisence. Ummm, Playboy requires a copy of the model's ID to be provided with submission. They won't even let you audition for them if you go into their offices unless you produce ID and then they ALWAYS make a copy of it.
I am missing the whole point of this thread. I don't see where there was anything inappropriate at all. In fact, I am struck by the fact that he didn't ask for a release, merely permission to submit to the magazines. The guy sounds quite ethical to me.
Photographer
Wolfs Eye Photography
Posts: 1830
Wills Point, Texas, US
For me it doesn't matter what the age is, I get an ID. Even if the model is a minor I will ask for the Parents ID. Proof of age and proof of gaurdianship will only save in the long run if someone decides to file a suit for any reason.
This not ony applies to nude models but should be for all genres of modeling. It's smart business in my mind and according to my lawyer.
Photographer
Angelfactory
Posts: 1559
Foley, Minnesota, US
For a photographer to make sure all i's are dotted and t's crossed doesn't make him shady. Can never have too much info and never know in the future what all you will need for proof and wish you would have gotten and didn't.
Photographer
Murder City Angels
Posts: 297
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
There are two reasons for him doing this.
Reason #1 and most likely the right reason.
He is planning on selling the photos. The only way you can legally sell photos on the net for others to use for professional reasons is with a signed release and a photo of their id as well as a photo of them holding their id.
Reason #2
Many models bail after 6 months or a year and return to try to correct their internet history. I have had 4-5 models ask a year later to have pics taken down due to a few reasons. When you're a young model you make life lasting decisions without thinking about it. So to protect myself and not waist my time I require models to sign a commitment release.
That's about it no other reasons.
Photographer
Xeris - Dwight
Posts: 4369
Austin, Texas, US
Proof of who they are and proof of their age. I would be curious to know why a model would have problem with showing proof of those things, especially proff of who they are.
Photographer
DGstudios
Posts: 134
Rossville, Georgia, US
hell, the legal environment in this country 'requires' proper ID for everything. I work completely TFCD but I use a model release and get ID. A photog friend of mine from California actually shoots a high resolution pic of the models face with the License under one eye!
Model
Janice Marie Foote
Posts: 11483
Xeris - Dwight wrote:
Proof of who they are and proof of their age. I would be curious to know why a model would have problem with showing proof of those things, especially proff of who they are. I would wonder that too.
I bring it even if it's not mentioned, because they may have forgot to mention it or thought I'd just know to bring it. And since I do know it may be needed, I bring it to not create useless conflict over an ID.
Photographer
J Jeffreys
Posts: 1367
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Frank McAdam wrote:
I always ask for valid ID with proof of age no matter what the model's age. Same for me. It helps to reduce any possible future problems. 
Photographer
ERNIE CHAN
Posts: 378
Houston, Texas, US
publications require an ID(Driver's License)to be submitted with the model release or their form of release.
Photographer
Joe Branske
Posts: 411
Chicago, Illinois, US
Its not shady to establish a paper trail or have a logical policy abouts ID's
The model may have looked over 18 or even 25 but when you have a procedure
its best just to stick to it.
Photographer
Keith Allen Phillips
Posts: 3670
Santa Fe, New Mexico, US
Doesn't matter if they're 18 or 81 if you're shooting nudes you should be getting copies of ID.
Photographer
AusModels
Posts: 298
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Casper Munoz wrote:
I had a model come to me recently complaining about another photographer and his shady actions. But the one thing that he did was asked her to sign not a model release, but a form that gave him permission to submit her photos to Maxim, Playboy, and FHM and he also asked to make a photocopy of her drivers lisence.
Now i could see if the girl was clearly young looking, but he knew she was of age and also knew she has a young teenage child. So clearly it couldnt have been for his purposes, but she asked me, i was dumbfounded, so i ask you... why would he need a copy of her drivers lisence? It's a legal requirement in some countries. Do a search on "18 U.S.C. U2257 Compliance Notice".
If shooting content for the Magazines you mentioned and you don't get Photographic proof of age, then you're doing the wrong thing. "I didin't know she was underage" isn't acceptable.
Photographer
Rande
Posts: 309
New York, New York, US
i get ID copies so that i have proof they are over 18. somtimes as logn as all the info on the release matches their licesne i dotn even ask for a copy
Photographer
Jake Garn
Posts: 3958
Salt Lake City, Utah, US
Photographer
Midnightblue Photo
Posts: 45
Harrisonburg, Virginia, US
Honestly and I hope I'm not out of line but what really seems shady is the fact you have all those models and owner/manager jobs listed on yopur profile and you didn't know that getting an ID is an industry standard. This is day one stuff. No disrespect meant but that really throws up a flag to me.
Photographer
Webspinner Studios
Posts: 6964
Ann Arbor, Michigan, US
Yep. need it to sell any suggestive images or nudes to prove they are of age. your word isn't enough.
Photographer
Sergei Belski
Posts: 213
Airdrie, Alberta, Canada
I don't see anything wrong with that.
Sergei
Photographer
Fotographia Fantastique
Posts: 17339
White River Junction, Vermont, US
Casper Munoz wrote:
I had a model come to me recently complaining about another photographer and his shady actions. But the one thing that he did was asked her to sign not a model release, but a form that gave him permission to submit her photos to Maxim, Playboy, and FHM and he also asked to make a photocopy of her drivers lisence.
Now i could see if the girl was clearly young looking, but he knew she was of age and also knew she has a young teenage child. So clearly it couldnt have been for his purposes, but she asked me, i was dumbfounded, so i ask you... why would he need a copy of her drivers lisence? Wait, this practice is "shady"?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Google 2257 Record Keeping.
Photographer
Mikel Featherston
Posts: 11103
San Diego, California, US
Proof of age for ANY type of photo, because in some states they cannot enter into a legally binding agreement, such as a model release, if they are still a minor.
Photographer
J C ModeFotografie
Posts: 14718
Los Angeles, California, US
midnightblue69 wrote:
Honestly and I hope I'm not out of line but what really seems shady is the fact you have all those models and owner/manager jobs listed on yopur profile and you didn't know that getting an ID is an industry standard. This is day one stuff. No disrespect meant but that really throws up a flag to me. I was wondering about that too . . .
Webspinner wrote:
Yep. need it to sell any suggestive images or nudes to prove they are of age. your word isn't enough. Your post is a bit misleading.
Under Federal Law, only certain types of images (for example: a nude girl spreading her legs & masturbating) are covered under the 2257 record-keeping requirements. Simple "art nudes" can be covered by a simple "2257 Exemption Statement".
Model
Natalie Swift
Posts: 1582
Naples, Florida, US
glamour pics wrote:
It's proof of age; it shows good faith on the photographer's part if there's a question about age; it's required by law if photos are explicit or bondage or spanking (see 18 USC 2257, 2256); it's required by produce on any revealing or nude photos because of the vagueness of 2257 and 2256; it's a protection against shakedowns by models and/or their 'managers' later... and those are only a few of the reasons. BINGO
Photographer
GW Burns
Posts: 564
Sarasota, Florida, US
J C ModeFotografie wrote:
midnightblue69 wrote:
Honestly and I hope I'm not out of line but what really seems shady is the fact you have all those models and owner/manager jobs listed on yopur profile and you didn't know that getting an ID is an industry standard. This is day one stuff. No disrespect meant but that really throws up a flag to me. I was wondering about that too . . .
Your post is a bit misleading.
Under Federal Law, only certain types of images (for example: a nude girl spreading her legs & masturbating) are covered under the 2257 record-keeping requirements. Simple "art nudes" can be covered by a simple "2257 Exemption Statement". What is one man's art is another man's porn. I think if you talk to an attorney they will advise you to be safe rather then sorry. The legal fee's you would pay defending your art isnt worth something so subjective.
Photographer
J C ModeFotografie
Posts: 14718
Los Angeles, California, US
J C ModeFotografie wrote:
I was wondering about that too . . .
Your post is a bit misleading.
Under Federal Law, only certain types of images (for example: a nude girl spreading her legs & masturbating) are covered under the 2257 record-keeping requirements. Simple "art nudes" can be covered by a simple "2257 Exemption Statement". GW Burns wrote:
What is one man's art is another man's porn. I think if you talk to an attorney they will advise you to be safe rather then sorry. The legal fee's you would pay defending your art isnt worth something so subjective. I was speaking about the technicality of it. Obviously, local laws differ - as well as state laws. There are states where photographs that look as if the model wasn't aware she was being photograph are "illegal".
I'm not saying "Don't get I.D." - I'm just saying recordkeeping is AND isn't as strict as some here assume.
In any case, the 2257 legislation does establish a certain "line that must be crossed" - it both is AND isn't as subjective as you suggest. Do you honestly think a picture of a two year old playing with his rubber duckie whilst nude in a bathtub is covered under 2257 record-keeping requirements?
Photographer
Boho Hobo
Posts: 25351
Santa Barbara, California, US
Casper Munoz wrote:
I had a model come to me recently complaining about another photographer and his shady actions. But the one thing that he did was asked her to sign not a model release, but a form that gave him permission to submit her photos to Maxim, Playboy, and FHM and he also asked to make a photocopy of her drivers lisence.
Now i could see if the girl was clearly young looking, but he knew she was of age and also knew she has a young teenage child. So clearly it couldnt have been for his purposes, but she asked me, i was dumbfounded, so i ask you... why would he need a copy of her drivers lisence? how else can I steal her identity?
Photographer
Imagemakersphoto
Posts: 786
Saint Paul, Minnesota, US
IDs help prove age and legality of the contract they have signed. They have entered into a legal contract by signing a release. You show IDs to get jobs, buy houses or any thing you have notorised. Most stock agencies require a copy of the models ID to be on file.
Photographer
MEK Photography
Posts: 6571
Westminster, Maryland, US
Casper Munoz wrote:
I had a model come to me recently complaining about another photographer and his shady actions. But the one thing that he did was asked her to sign not a model release, but a form that gave him permission to submit her photos to Maxim, Playboy, and FHM and he also asked to make a photocopy of her drivers lisence.
Now i could see if the girl was clearly young looking, but he knew she was of age and also knew she has a young teenage child. So clearly it couldnt have been for his purposes, but she asked me, i was dumbfounded, so i ask you... why would he need a copy of her drivers lisence? He might know she's of age, but they don't. As far as age and sex in images are involved, nobody takes it lightly. They want proof.
Publication
Dezzi for North America
Posts: 861
New York, New York, US
Casper Munoz wrote:
I had a model come to me recently complaining about another photographer and his shady actions. But the one thing that he did was asked her to sign not a model release, but a form that gave him permission to submit her photos to Maxim, Playboy, and FHM and he also asked to make a photocopy of her drivers lisence.
Now i could see if the girl was clearly young looking, but he knew she was of age and also knew she has a young teenage child. So clearly it couldnt have been for his purposes, but she asked me, i was dumbfounded, so i ask you... why would he need a copy of her drivers lisence? Thats like carding someone who is clearly of age. Its just better to have proof. We have even just taken a picture of the id to have on file. Nude sites and publications are required to keep that on file.
Photographer
Leroy Dickson
Posts: 8239
Flint, Michigan, US
Casper Munoz wrote:
I had a model come to me recently complaining about another photographer and his shady actions. My question is WHY did you ASSUME the actions were shady?
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So no need to copy ID for me.
