DJTalStudios wrote:
The OLD days??? How far back was that? When I started in 96 all she had to do was show some tits, and post to newsgroups... LOL Wasn't much to know passed that. LOL

OLD days was about six years ago when the market wasn't so oversaturated and people actually said no to a buck. The OLD days, people would look at a girl and say "she can make me 100.00 a week, hmm no I'll hold out for the one that can make me 1k a week" Today, it's "WOW this girl can make me at least 300 a week so why not?" Standards have gone down hugely.

DJTalStudios wrote:
I think the crackdown is stupid. If the model is 18 leave em the hell alone! But this is why I rarely deal with 3rd party billing companies.

I agree, the crack down is stupid, simply because you can go to most major porn sites and see an anal sex scene done in a bedroom thats filled with spongebob and hellokitty with the girl in pigtails being used for handlebars and because it's a 3x site, it's ok to present that image. But a non nude site equates to -18 haha. I do like ccbill and while I still have a Verotel account,don't think I'd use anything but them. NATS is too damn confusing for me as an affiliate, so I can only imagine how they are as a provider.

DJTalStudios wrote:
Well you and her were smart enough to realize what her chances in "real" modeling were and capitalize on other options. $1K a week isn't a bad living. Which Im guessing means the site pulls around 2k a week. Not a bad living at all. Now imagine having 10 sites doing the same thing. =o) My first foray into NN was with Brandy. That girl just blew up! And she was told numerous times that she wouldn't fit in the NN community.

Yea we were smart enough to realize her selling power! I did very little advertising of her site because she's always associated with some sort of drama lol. So she made that amount + per week and it was all word of mouth. Figure it was more then 1k, but I'm not really one to brag or be specifics on how much money I make lol. Even at the low end of 1k per week, that's still 4k per month and more money then most people with college degrees make per month! I LOVE it when people in NN tell me a girl I like won't make it. I just push them even more. To date, I've only had one unsuccessful nn site simply because the model tried to have many sites with many different people. I sold her content before the site even got started cause I didn't want to deal with the headache.

DJTalStudios wrote:
She and I were laughing the other day on the phone about how so many of these NN girls are doing now what she was doing 2 years ago and got talked smack on for. But she made her money and got out. Imagine if she comes back? She's still getting tons of emails from fans, and her videos still sell. Go figure.

Bring her back for a limited time. Make the stuff hot and make it a limited time only deal. A buddy of mines did that with Brooke.

Bah we should talk via AIM or something lol. It's always fun to talk to someone that has a clue in this business.

mag-jr wrote:
OLD days was about six years ago when the market wasn't so oversaturated and people actually said no to a buck. The OLD days, people would look at a girl and say "she can make me 100.00 a week, hmm no I'll hold out for the one that can make me 1k a week" Today, it's "WOW this girl can make me at least 300 a week so why not?" Standards have gone down hugely.

LOL@ 6 years ago... For me the OLD days is 10 years ago when domains cost $175.00 a piece. And hosting bandwidth was measured in MB... LOL  2GB of transfer cost like $300.00 a month... LOL

But keep this in mind 10 sites doing $300.00 a week is some good money. Hell even $300.00 a week aint too bad when you consider minimum wage people don't make that much more.

mag-jr wrote:
I agree, the crack down is stupid, simply because you can go to most major porn sites and see an anal sex scene done in a bedroom thats filled with spongebob and hellokitty with the girl in pigtails being used for handlebars and because it's a 3x site, it's ok to present that image. But a non nude site equates to -18 haha. I do like ccbill and while I still have a Verotel account,don't think I'd use anything but them. NATS is too damn confusing for me as an affiliate, so I can only imagine how they are as a provider.

Yup... it's all stupid. Trying to regulate an industry which pretty much regulates itself and that those trying to do the regulating have no idea about. Mostly those ignorant emotional Christians trying to protect their children. Whatever... I don't live in a child's world. I am an adult and I like my adult things. Let PARENTS do their freaking jobs and look after their OWN kids.

Verotel is a quick solution and actually pretty good. But I usually prefer to use one of my merchant accounts. Only my newest sites use Verotel until they start doing well and I switch them over to my merchant account.

mag-jr wrote:
Yea we were smart enough to realize her selling power! I did very little advertising of her site because she's always associated with some sort of drama lol. So she made that amount + per week and it was all word of mouth. Figure it was more then 1k, but I'm not really one to brag or be specifics on how much money I make lol. Even at the low end of 1k per week, that's still 4k per month and more money then most people with college degrees make per month! I LOVE it when people in NN tell me a girl I like won't make it. I just push them even more. To date, I've only had one unsuccessful nn site simply because the model tried to have many sites with many different people. I sold her content before the site even got started cause I didn't want to deal with the headache.

Well then that was a super successful site under those conditions. And you're right most people don't see $4,000 a month working a job they HATE. And especially good for an 18 / 19 year old.

mag-jr wrote:
Bring her back for a limited time. Make the stuff hot and make it a limited time only deal. A buddy of mines did that with Brooke.

Bah we should talk via AIM or something lol. It's always fun to talk to someone that has a clue in this business.

We're talking about it. We'll see what happens when she gets back stateside. She's currently doing some world travel type stuff, living off the $$$$ she made from her site and the most important thing. Her investments. Which is another thing we do for our girls. Is set them down with an investment councelor before they see their first check.

This is a short lived career (Modeling) Most models only have a shelf life of about 5 years then it's all over. The smart ones take the bulk of their earnings and invest in their FUTURE. But then that takes a business mind to do that.

Send me your AIM since I don't use AIM but it works with ICQ.

Patrick Shipstad wrote:
I have some questions about some of these model sites..

1) a lot of them don't look 18. If they're not, isn't there some sort of legal issue there? It seems they're really playing up their young looks to play to "that" audience.

2) where the hell are all these girl's parents? photo shoots, web cam videos in their bedrooms. Rooms that look like they still live at home. Daddy may have kept her off "the pole" but he certainly didn't keep her off the net!

doh!

Cristal Steverson wrote:
How do you guys feel about models with pay sites?  I was just in an interesting conversation and I wanted some opinions...

The guys are willing to pay to see the models, because its more personal than watching porn! They feel that maybe they have a chance with the model unlike most porn stars they will never so much as speak to. They talk to the model and learn things about her see here live on cam, talk to her & ask her Q's etc..

statecollege photograph wrote:
there are very few girls who have the body to pull off a paysite - i admire the ones who have enough entrepreneurial spirit and self-confidence to put one together.  There are many extremely successful fine art erotic websites that do not degrade women and only pay homage to female beauty.  And since a well shaped and beautiful woman is a rarity and a gift - God Speed to the ones who do it. (coming from a woman)

Ransom J wrote:
I postulated on this in my WHY ARE YOU MODELING? blog on my myspace page

IMO paysites are great avenues for certain types of models.  I mean if you aren't 5'10 and stick thin and signed to an agency, if you aren't getting an influx of commercial work to live upon, then I see nothing wrong with you using a paysite to capatilize on your image.  It's smart business IMO.  Brooke Burke has a paysite.  M. Ford has a pay site.  Bobbi Billard has a pay site.  Francine Dee, Masiumi Max, and countless others make GREAT money from pay sites.  And these are all working models that get respect and love in their respective fields of modeling.

I doubt you'll ever see Tyra with a pay site, but shit Tyra won't ever be doing TFP either.  A paysite is a way that a model can actually exert some financial control over her image.  She can do nude, non-nude, topless, fetish, whatever is her comfort level and with proper marketing and promotion make a monthly income that is more than the average commercial model makes waiting around for the right gig to come along.

That's very true! I personally don't have a pay site and have actually been advised against it...BUT, I do have a few model friends who make about $10,000 per MONTH on their pay sites! It's all about marketing, promoting and establishing brand equity in your image and making smart decisions about your career direction (depending on where you wanna go with it). It also helps you maintain control of your image and direction...so, although it's not for me, there are models out there who have made a lot of money for themselves doing it!!

candace marie wrote:

The guys are willing to pay to see the models, because its more personal than watching porn! They feel that maybe they have a chance with the model unlike most porn stars they will never so much as speak to. They talk to the model and learn things about her see here live on cam, talk to her & ask her Q's etc..

I really agree with that. I will be having a paid site sometime this year and not to mention a more professional portfolios site as well..

and what i am learning is to produce images that will make the audience feel like im "thier gurl" and not the world's. Basic eye candy...something personal like some webshots, chats here and there and frequent updates on images to keep them posted and also videos of my shoots and blogs as well...

If you contruct the site well enough and have a good team behind you..then the site can do awesomely...

Ransom J wrote:
I postulated on this in my WHY ARE YOU MODELING? blog on my myspace page

IMO paysites are great avenues for certain types of models.  I mean if you aren't 5'10 and stick thin and signed to an agency, if you aren't getting an influx of commercial work to live upon, then I see nothing wrong with you using a paysite to capatilize on your image.  It's smart business IMO.  Brooke Burke has a paysite.  M. Ford has a pay site.  Bobbi Billard has a pay site.  Francine Dee, Masiumi Max, and countless others make GREAT money from pay sites.  And these are all working models that get respect and love in their respective fields of modeling.

I doubt you'll ever see Tyra with a pay site, but shit Tyra won't ever be doing TFP either.  A paysite is a way that a model can actually exert some financial control over her image.  She can do nude, non-nude, topless, fetish, whatever is her comfort level and with proper marketing and promotion make a monthly income that is more than the average commercial model makes waiting around for the right gig to come along.

Shae Norris wrote:
That's very true! I personally don't have a pay site and have actually been advised against it...BUT, I do have a few model friends who make about $10,000 per MONTH on their pay sites! It's all about marketing, promoting and establishing brand equity in your image and making smart decisions about your career direction (depending on where you wanna go with it). It also helps you maintain control of your image and direction...so, although it's not for me, there are models out there who have made a lot of money for themselves doing it!!

Hi Shae,  I've been researching this subject nearly since I first logged on to the 'net back in 2000!  It's changed a lot in just 6 years!   I do agree with Ransom J on much of this topic.

First of all, who is advising you "against" having a website that generates an income for you? That's either an uneducated opinion, or it's someone (an agent perhaps?) that wants to keep you from expanding your horizons.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with making money from having a website ... if you can do it!  It was photographers who first launched the glamour and nude sites.  Now more models are doing it and being smart about it.  So I would consider what the motive of someone telling you not to launch your own website is about ...

Don't expect to make a ton of money ... with so many now online, websites have become highly competitive!  Putting one together and launching a website is not all that easy to do. It takes a lot more advance planning and work than some people realize to run a website.  Getting a merchant account and billing is the obstacle that trips many up! 

About "teen" sites ... there is nothing illegal about it as long as the content is not breaking any obscenity laws.   It has a lot more to do with the legal age to sign a contract than with anything "sexual" which is where people get confused about "the legal age of consent."  It has everything to do with the legal age to sign contracts!  I do not like seeing children exploited, and putting a girl under the age of 15 on a pay to view site is pure exploitation on the part of the parents and the photographer.  From my personal experience of shooting teens, it's my opinion that 15 or 16 years old is not a bad age for a female model to have a website.  Male models will have to concentrate on other close industries like acting and work towards catalog modeling.  There is not much demand to see male models online as far as I can tell.  I could be wrong about that.

The Internet is driven by the people, ... meaning US, but the entertainment industry is doing it's best to try to control it.  That is why big media corporations buy websites like MySpace.com  The entertainment industry is also responsible for the exploitation of minors ever since the idea of "entertainment" came about!  Children have been used and abused in the early days of the music and movie industry. 

The age 18 That is also the age that many young people are approached in the music industry!  The age of 18 is when you can legally sign a contract. I've managed music talent of various ages, and damn near everyone I know has been approached by a major label with a contract of "a million dollars" which if you read the fine print, must be paid back to the record company!  More talented musicians are finding their way to starting their own E-Label which is the direction of the industry on the 'net! 

My intentions are to make some money in the Internet Modeling industry, but I know that music will lead to my retirement fund.  Of the two publication/profiles on MySpace that I have, it's the music one growing twice as fast as the models one. Check it out and read my blogs!

Patrick Walberg
Internet Model Club
Backstage411

CristinaLex wrote:

I really agree with that. I will be having a paid site sometime this year and not to mention a more professional portfolios site as well..

and what i am learning is to produce images that will make the audience feel like im "thier gurl" and not the world's. Basic eye candy...something personal like some webshots, chats here and there and frequent updates on images to keep them posted and also videos of my shoots and blogs as well...

If you contruct the site well enough and have a good team behind you..then the site can do awesomely...

Christina, You have the right idea!

Ransom J wrote:
I postulated on this in my WHY ARE YOU MODELING? blog on my myspace page

LITHIUM_PICNIC wrote:
you can postulate whever you like as long as you don't get any on me and keep paying your $9.99 monthly member renewels.

i'm just sayin.

Just $9.99 a month?  Damn!  I'm paying twice that for my OMP profile!  What am I doing wrong?  LOL

LITHIUM_PICNIC wrote:
you can postulate whever you like as long as you don't get any on me and keep paying your $9.99 monthly member renewels.

i'm just sayin.

HAR HAR!  **postulates in thread**

HurtMeSo wrote:
Darn guys, now I want my own paysite! ^^;
But I'm not doing any pinkshot, it won't sell... :-S
(I know, Mr Picnic, Apnea isn't doing any either but, well, she's Apnea)

LITHIUM_PICNIC wrote:
there are playboy level nudes on her site in the members area...

tastefully "pink" as you put it...

Yup, I know, I AM a member! ^^
But what I intended to say is that her reputation/sucess isn't based on pink shots, she does some of them but very seldom. Not to say that pink shots are BAAD or whatever, but some models do them on a regular basis an fans know it.

Cristal Steverson wrote:
How do you guys feel about models with pay sites?  I was just in an interesting conversation and I wanted some opinions...

Bottom line, people in America will pay for anything, there's ALWAYS a customer.  I mean really, we live in a country where a huge corporation can go into a sock drawer, pull out a bright colored sock, put an APPLE on it, call it an iSock and sell it for 29.95 + 6.99 S&H.  Any model interested can have a pay site and make money on it.  They won't all get rich, but if they post enough pics and have enough sets/vids to sell, they'll make money....it's America...everyone has different tastes so just about everything will sell to someone.

BasementStudios wrote:
Bottom line, people in America will pay for anything, there's ALWAYS a customer.

Too bad I live in France...

HurtMeSo wrote:

Too bad I live in France...

This is the internet.  The world is your market.

Ransom J wrote:

This is the internet.  The world is your market.

Yup, thanks for that. I am thinking seriously about having a paysite. I already said no to one proposition of this kind as I was thinking naively that without pink shots, it wouldnt be worth it. Now it is time to restate my assumptions. ^^

BasementStudios wrote:
Bottom line, people in America will pay for anything, there's ALWAYS a customer.

HurtMeSo wrote:
Yup, thanks for that. I am thinking seriously about having a paysite. I already said no to one proposition of this kind as I was thinking naively that without pink shots, it wouldnt be worth it. Now it is time to restate my assumptions. ^^

Check out this site Pattycake No nudity, just tease ... and she is one of the most successful Internet llamas in my opinion.  Honsetly, she knows how to do extreme tease without showing any pink.  There is some see through, but that it's.  I know for a fact that she has over 1,000 members paying $20 a month.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Check out this site Pattycake No nudity, just tease ... and she is one of the most successful Internet models in my opinion.  Honsetly, she knows how to do extreme tease without showing any pink.  There is some see through, but that it's.  I know for a fact that she has over 1,000 members paying $20 a month.

I'd love to hear what "agency" model on this site is making that kind of money.


Guess being an internet model has it's upside too.

Mark Wangerin wrote:
Personally, I think there okay although I never look at them nor have they interested me.

From a photographers POV, I have had Models want me to shoot TFP for them but they wanted to use the images on their pay site. As I make my living full time as a photographer, I think it's unfair for models to get professionally shot images for free them take those images to directly generate an income.  If a photog/hobbyist wants to do that, I have NO problem with that either. I just won't shoot TFP for a pay site model if she intends to use them as merchandise.

Mark

Makes perfectly good sense to me

HurtMeSo wrote:
Yup, thanks for that. I am thinking seriously about having a paysite. I already said no to one proposition of this kind as I was thinking naively that without pink shots, it wouldnt be worth it. Now it is time to restate my assumptions. ^^

A friend of mine says he would pay to see your pink, but doesn't care for other body parts

Ransom J wrote:

I'd love to hear what "agency" model on this site is making that kind of money.


Guess being an internet model has it's upside too.

Yes, I'm sure not many can say they make that kind of money while being only 5' tall (short), full figured, and getting close to mid twenties!  She has worked her ass off for about 3 or 4 years now to get this far!

The Internet does offer new opportunities to those who can do it!

Mark Wangerin wrote:
Personally, I think there okay although I never look at them nor have they interested me.

From a photographers POV, I have had Models want me to shoot TFP for them but they wanted to use the images on their pay site. As I make my living full time as a photographer, I think it's unfair for models to get professionally shot images for free them take those images to directly generate an income.  If a photog/hobbyist wants to do that, I have NO problem with that either. I just won't shoot TFP for a pay site model if she intends to use them as merchandise.

Mark

Mark, the models pay their photographers for content.  You should not do tfp for any model who has a paysite.

MarkMarek wrote:
A friend of mine says he would pay to see your pink, but doesn't care for other body parts

Wow. I dunno if this should be taken as a compliment or what.

Manfred Kooistra wrote:
As a photographer a model with a paysite is not interesting for me anymore. How would I sell her images? Okay, if she is a superstar, people cannot get enough from her, but if she is just the average nude teen model with her own member area, I don't photograph her, because there is nothing original about my images of her then.

you are knocking your own ability to be creative

Patrick Walberg wrote:

BasementStudios wrote:
Bottom line, people in America will pay for anything, there's ALWAYS a customer.

Check out this site Pattycake No nudity, just tease ... and she is one of the most successful Internet models in my opinion.  Honsetly, she knows how to do extreme tease without showing any pink.  There is some see through, but that it's.  I know for a fact that she has over 1,000 members paying $20 a month.

I would say that Pattycake and similar sites are so successful exactly BECAUSE they have no nudity. People get tired of porn and the disillusion it brings, they want the tension to remain, and they want the illusion of the nice girl next door to remain intact. Customers of non-nude sites find no interest in women who show everything to the whole world, they dream of love and trust and a happy home, and they want to look at and relate to girls who have a limit and draw a line.

There are two tendencies in erotic photography at this moment: one is extremity (you won't believe the stuff I have seen, where actors throwing up on each other's bodies while having sex is one of the less disturbing presentations), the other is friendliness and warmth. Well, Pattycake doesn't feel especially warm to me, but there are a lot of paysites (model or mixed) that have this aspect (look at www.domai.com or www.femjoy.com or www.rookiebabe.com, for example), and teen model paysites often lean in this direction. It is often a mere illusion of warmth, of course, and if you look at the eyes of some of the models, you will see that the girlish poses and clothing has nothing to do with their hard reality, but if you truly bring this warmth to your site, you will be very successfull. Many people miss it and search for it.

Manfred Kooistra wrote:
I would not want that model to shoot and publish for anyone else.

if this is the case, i would hope you pay out a nice fee to keep that model exclusive to you since she wont be working for anyone else!

kumi wrote:

if this is the case, i would hope you pay out a nice fee to keep that model exclusive to you since she wont be working for anyone else!

I would just like to publicly state that Kumi is one of the few models I would even consider paying to shoot with.  Actually I'm lobbying for just that right now!  She is as good as it gets in every way I can think of.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
I would just like to publicly state that Kumi is one of the few models I would even consider paying to shoot with.  Actually I'm lobbying for just that right now!  She is as good as it gets in every way I can think of.

hah!

i'm just never around. i only exist online!!!!

GAAAAAAAAAAHH