Photography by BE wrote:
I have seen photos of your set up. You take (or used to) a tripod, a light stand with umbrella, and power pack, and a camera bag.   Yet you think you should have special privileges and not have to get a permit.  How the heck are the authorities suppose to know you are not a professional.  That is.. that you are not making money from photography.

There is supposed to be this concept known as burden of proof, as in if someone wants to label me as commercial and I claim not to be, it's their responsibility to prove I'm lying.

Profiling is not allowed in many cases, even in situations where it is badly needed like airline security.

Why then is it OK to assume a photographer is of a certain type based upon a glance of their equipment?

H3D PHOTOGRAPHER wrote:
Your point of view is clear ... you dont see why YOU should have to pay for a permit... so the rules need to be changed to accommodate YOU! Yeah good luck with that!

I'm speaking for all those who are like me, of whom there are many.

rp_photo wrote:

There is supposed to be this concept known as burden of proof, as in if someone wants to label me as commercial and I claim not to be, it's their responsibility to prove I'm lying.

Profiling is not allowed in many cases, even in situations where it is badly needed like airline security.

Why then is it OK to assume a photographer is of a certain type based upon a glance of their equipment?

Do you have ANY ACTUAL experience of obtaining film permits....Yes or No?

H3D PHOTOGRAPHER wrote:
Do you have ANY ACTUAL experience of obtaining film permits....Yes or No?

No, and I should never to have to, as I have no intentions of being commercial.

rp_photo wrote:

I'm speaking for all those who are like me, of whom there are many.

Then start a website... like I mentioned before crying about the injustices of the permit system on MM is not going to change a thing!

I refuse to feed your discussion any further as it is waste of time. The End!

H3D PHOTOGRAPHER wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I refuse to feed your discussion any further as it is waste of time. The End!

Why didn't I say (and think) that before I wasted my time.. again.   LOL

rp_photo wrote:

It's pathetic that such barriers exist to up-and-coming talent. Perhaps thats how their more experienced counterparts like it.

I'd start out with simpler shoots at less populated places, taking the approach that it's easier to ask for forgiveness, and it may be worth traveling just enough to get out of the city.

Another option is to aquire backgrounds and other equipment that facilitates shooting indoors.

Since when do you need permits?


I find this concept ridiculous and strange.

Raymond Irvine wrote:
How is a tripod or lightstand any worse than with regards to interfering with the use of say a public beach than putting up a volleyball net or even a beach chair?  We all have to pay our taxes to support this so-called "public" property whether we want to or not.  Why should we be allowed reasonable enjoyment of it?  Why are photographers the ones that pose such a grave risk that we must obtain a permit and show proof of insurance?

Smokey shouldn't be given the task of arbitrarily deciding who is or is not a "professional" photographer.  Like rp_photo mentioned earlier, the burden of proof should always lie with the accuser.

If permits and insurance are going to be required on public property, then it should be applied uniformly and consistently.  There should be equality under the law.  Anyone, with any type of camera should be required to have a permit.  Otherwise, no one should have to have a permit unless there is a extraordinary situation where it is necessary to control and limit access to an area.

Finally someone gets it.

rp_photo wrote:
I have trouble believing that a permit will buy you much control, but rather see as a bare minimal protection from law enforcement harrassment.

I maintain General Liability insurance and have routinely pulled permits.  Whenever I did I was always asked if I wanted help for crowd control.  I recently shot at a trainstation and a permit was required.  Due to the nature of the shoot, they were kind enough to waive the permit fee as long as I named them on my GL policy for the day of the shoot.  They also assigned a security guard to me to keep people out of my way and watch my equipment.

I know this is your particular soapbox to stand on, but honestly you don't really know what you're talking about.  GL is simply not that costly and worth every penny should something happen.  Yes, if you just use a point and shoot and want to run around taking snapshots, then no, a permit isn't necessary, but if you actually want to set up a shoot, with equipment and other personnel, it is the only way to go.

Jim Alvarez wrote:
hello everyone!

just wanted to know if a permit its required in Miami Beach, if you´re planning a one-to-one shoot (photographer+model, maybe a couple of people helping) no lightstands, etc.. just a camera. When you´re coming from overseas, paperwork it´s a nightmare, specially US paperwork...

No, just expect the cops to show up. Just be courteous and they'll leave you alone. Or use them as grips.

Tim Foster wrote:

No, just expect the cops to show up. Just be courteous and they'll leave you alone. Or use them as grips.

Thanks Tim! much appreciated