Photographer
Quartzmine Photo
Posts: 80
Sacramento, California, US
I could find many images in that day's contest, as well as the others, meriting a vote. While there's no accounting for taste, I just didn't see this one as hands down over all others, including the last place. I'm not the first to make a similar comment. As I said (because it is forbidden to say otherwise) we know all votes are cast on merit alone. Update 6:10 pm PST: I don't know how this happened but the link to the last place pic is incorrect. This is the correct link (I hope) https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/113292 While I'm at it again, I would have made the same comment has the second place won. https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/113332
Photographer
Risen Phoenix Photo
Posts: 3779
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Quartzmine Photo wrote:
I could find many images in that day's contest, as well as the others, meriting a vote. While there's no accounting for taste, I just didn't see this one as hands down over all others, including the last place. I'm not the first to make a similar comment.
As I said (because it is forbidden to say otherwise) we know all votes are cast on merit alone.
Update 6:10 pm PST:
I don't know how this happened but the link to the last place pic is incorrect.
This is the correct link (I hope)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/113292
While I'm at it again, I would have made the same comment has the second place won.
https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/113332 Wow! You know only one page up photographers were hoping there would be more artistic images in the female contest. I entered a purely artistic image to see how it would fair.
I am humbled that so many voters found merit in the image. I will not critique my own image in this thread but it is an image that sums up everything I like in photography. Namely, point of view, great tones, textures, and composition. Perhaps that is what other people saw in the image.
For the individual who made the above statement please feel free to PM with your thoughts on why it was not worthy of votes. I can learn from your thoughts and they are all welcome.
Thanks and as a fine art photographer I appreciate that a number of beautiful fine art images have won. I think this contest has gotten even better.
IMHO
RISEN PHOENIX
Photographer
Stanley L Moore
Posts: 1681
Houston, Texas, US
Many years ago in high school I had a teacher who always said, "If you don't blow your own horn, who will do it for you?" In that vein I want to celebrate a milestone. Today I won my 10th POTD 18+ Contest. 18+ https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/113879 Of course most of the credit goes to the awesome model Saul Harris of Dallas, https://www.modelmayhem.com/2858866 Indeed nothing could be accomplished without the services of the many MM models I have worked with. I am grateful to all the participants who look at the entries and voted for mine above many fine photos. I am humbled and grateful for the recognition. Thank you.
Photographer
Eye of the World
Posts: 1396
Corvallis, Oregon, US
Quartzmine Photo wrote:
I could find many images in that day's contest, as well as the others, meriting a vote. While there's no accounting for taste, I just didn't see this one as hands down over all others, including the last place. I'm not the first to make a similar comment.
As I said (because it is forbidden to say otherwise) we know all votes are cast on merit alone.
Update 6:10 pm PST:
I don't know how this happened but the link to the last place pic is incorrect.
This is the correct link (I hope)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/113292
While I'm at it again, I would have made the same comment has the second place won.
https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/113332 I certainly can see why it got more votes. 2nd place had a creative idea, good composition, and sharp, crisp tones vs. what might have been a clever idea but was implemented with a heavy hand of Photoshop giving artificial, blotchy and not very pleasing skin.The person who submitted the last place image must not have thought it very worthy either since even he didn't bother to vote for it.
My criteria is this: if I could only vote for one of the two, which would I want to look at over again or hang on my wall. Both the winner and second place win hands down over the last image in my mind.
Photographer
Quartzmine Photo
Posts: 80
Sacramento, California, US
Come to Jesus: Did you in fact vote for either one?
I didn't, nor did I vote for the last place. My point was simply I couldn't see what it was about the winner that made it clearly superior to all the other entries. Both have interesting points, as does the last place.
This is not an unusual reaction on my part to the contest, especially where a winner posts a cookie-cutter image and gets such a high margin of votes as to make it statistically unlikely that all the votes were cast randomly on merit. I regrettably do not have confidence that there is any effective mechanism to prevent vote stacking, try as the mods may to do so.
Photographer
Risen Phoenix Photo
Posts: 3779
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Quartzmine Photo wrote:
Come to Jesus: Did you in fact vote for either one?
I didn't, nor did I vote for the last place. My point was simply I couldn't see what it was about the winner that made it clearly superior to all the other entries. Both have interesting points, as does the last place.
This is not an unusual reaction on my part to the contest, especially where a winner posts a cookie-cutter image and gets such a high margin of votes as to make it statistically unlikely that all the votes were cast randomly on merit. I regrettably do not have confidence that there is any effective mechanism to prevent vote stacking, try as the mods may to do so. You are so dead set against the value of the first place or second place for that day. Yet you are not capable of explaining why the images are not worthy of votes. I think you feel they are so bad that vote stacking must have occurred. What was cookie cutter from either the first or second place winners. I remember when there was a cookie cutter approach and their images won over and over again. That is not happening as much and there is truly creative images winning.
Though I would have liked to have won on that day( yes I have won 4) and have come in second at least 10 times, I do see the merit of the image that one.
Very clever the use of shadow cast by that chair to create leggings if you will on the lower part of the body. Great comp and beautiful post work. My hat is off to the wonderful photographer that created it.
Thank you Jo Jo for the tireless work you do so we can have FUN with this contest. I for one appreciate all the work that you must do .
To my friend I am responding to I would say chill out a bit, just have fun with the contest and keep trying. Have you been entering? You can't win if you don't enter.
Photographer
Stanley L Moore
Posts: 1681
Houston, Texas, US
Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:
You are so dead set against the value of the first place or second place for that day. Yet you are not capable of explaining why the images are not worthy of votes. I think you feel they are so bad that vote stacking must have occurred. What was cookie cutter from either the first or second place winners. I remember when there was a cookie cutter approach and their images won over and over again. That is not happening as much and there is truly creative images winning.
Though I would have liked to have won on that day( yes I have won 4) and have come in second at least 10 times, I do see the merit of the image that one.
Very clever the use of shadow cast by that chair to create leggings if you will on the lower part of the body. Great comp and beautiful post work. My hat is off to the wonderful photographer that created it.
Thank you Jo Jo for the tireless work you do so we can have FUN with this contest. I for one appreciate all the work that you must do .
To my friend I am responding to I would say chill out a bit, just have fun with the contest and keep trying. Have you been entering? You can't win if you don't enter. DITTO. Enter and vote, enter and vote. As someone who has been lucky enough to win 10 times.... albeit in the Male contest which is easier to win because it is so much smaller, I can say the voting is ineplicable. Some of my winning images I think are outstanding and some decidedly mediocere. There is a huge element of randomness in contests requiring votes.. And vbote stacking cannot account for all of it.
I have said many times the contests are a fun triviality which do not deserved getting worked up into a lather about. Just enter, vote, and enjopy the results no matter what they are.
Photographer
Kent Art Photography
Posts: 3588
Ashford, England, United Kingdom
Quartzmine Photo wrote:
Come to Jesus: Did you in fact vote for either one?
I didn't... Complaining about the results of a vote when you didn't vote yourself is rather perverse, don't you think?
Model
JoJo
Posts: 26560
Clearwater, Florida, US
Quartzmine Photo wrote:
Come to Jesus: Did you in fact vote for either one?
I didn't, nor did I vote for the last place. My point was simply I couldn't see what it was about the winner that made it clearly superior to all the other entries. Both have interesting points, as does the last place.
This is not an unusual reaction on my part to the contest, especially where a winner posts a cookie-cutter image and gets such a high margin of votes as to make it statistically unlikely that all the votes were cast randomly on merit. I regrettably do not have confidence that there is any effective mechanism to prevent vote stacking, try as the mods may to do so. Sounds to me as if you don't care for the MM contests.
Pity.
Don't like 'em? Then don't play 'em 
Photographer
Quartzmine Photo
Posts: 80
Sacramento, California, US
So if one thinks an election is fixed, one should say nothing and stop voting?
But yes, all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
Photographer
Risen Phoenix Photo
Posts: 3779
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Quartzmine Photo wrote:
So if one thinks an election is fixed, one should say nothing and stop voting?
But yes, all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds. Please, I have won four times, and there have been at least one occasion where I forgot to vote. I believe in the instance you keep bringing up there is no proof of vote stacking and to my knowledge that is harder to do now than at the earlier times in the contest.
I have asked you respectfully to PM me with your critique on why my second place version has no merit. Yet you refuse to do so. I am open minded and you?...
While you are at it feel free to comment on my winning image +18 male for November 26th or my female nude on November 28th. I suppose vote stacking was part of my wins in those 2 contests also....
There are no grapes that taste so bitter as sour grapes..... and no one more blind than those that refuse to see.
Model
JoJo
Posts: 26560
Clearwater, Florida, US
Quartzmine Photo wrote:
So if one thinks an election is fixed, one should say nothing and stop voting?
But yes, all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds. How to play the contests…
Take your absolute best pic and enter it. If it wins, great – if not DON’T complain, rather LEARN why people selected another image.
Any half-baked photographer can rant that the contests are rigged and that’s why their entry didn't win.
It takes a real pro to figure out how to make their image better and thus garner more votes.
Don't make excuses - make excellent images.
Photographer
Stanley L Moore
Posts: 1681
Houston, Texas, US
I fully agree with JoJo. Don't complain, act!
Keep trying. Look at wehat tends to ein. For example in the regular POTD most winners are headshots of beautiful women, beautifully made up and lit. Sometimes something else wins but rarely.
In the past the 18+ Men's contest tended to images with large genitals. Not so much now but it does help. I never look at the female contest so cannot tell you what tends to win.
I have been l;ucky enough to win the 18+ POTD 10 times. And this contest is relatively easy to win because there are so few entries. BUT I have been entering almost daily for two and a half years, somewhere between 600 and 900 entries. 10 wins represents about 1% success rate. That is pretty slim. There are others who win more regularly than I do and not from vote stacking. Lately some very decent images have won so the quality is there.
To me the contests are a fun triviality and I don't work up a sweat about it.
Enter, enter, enter and sooner or later you will have success. But remember the Female 18+ is just as hard to win as the regular POTD because there are about 100 entries each day. Good luck.
Photographer
Quartzmine Photo
Posts: 80
Sacramento, California, US
So suggesting that there is something that needs improvement brings veiled personal attacks suggesting the motive is to whine about the poster's own contest entries not winning? No such complaint was made or implied.
There are, however some people in here who would be right at home in Washington.
Photographer
Risen Phoenix Photo
Posts: 3779
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
JoJo wrote:
How to play the contests…
Take your absolute best pic and enter it. If it wins, great – if not DON’T complain, rather LEARN why people selected another image.
Any half-baked photographer can rant that the contests are rigged and that’s why their entry didn't win.
It takes a real pro to figure out how to make their image better and thus garner more votes.
Don't make excuses - make excellent images. I agree with Jo Jo. When I first started doing this I didn't realize there was a formula for folks to win. While I may not agree with all the ones that win each and every one is an excellent image. I tried to study the ones that won to see what set them apart.
But at the end of the day I try to enter a truly worthy image my very best. While I don't always win, I am usually in the top ten ... I feel pretty good about that. When I do win I am totally stoked.
Look perhaps you could post some of your images in the critique forum and let other wonderful photographers review your work. Ask them if your work is worthy of winning the +18 Women's contest or what else you could do to improve your work.
Anyway keep shooting and have fun ... not winning is not the end of the world, running out of beautiful nude models or going blind like I am is the end of the world.
Take care
Risen Phoenix
Photographer
Stanley L Moore
Posts: 1681
Houston, Texas, US
As another photographer who is going blind I could sympathize. Hopefully I could retain enough eyesight to keep going for a little while longer. I too feel stalked when I managed to win.
Photographer
SIP CAPTURE
Posts: 3
Los Angeles, California, US
I have found that on the +18 male contest the pictures available to be voted on change during the day i.e. the number of pictures increases. Often I vote and then look at the results and a picture has won that was not even on the available list to vote on. This has happened over and over and is an ongoing issue. Happened Dec 8 happened Dec 11 it seems at the last minute the winning pic is added. this is not right. Since pictures for the contest must be submitted 2 day prior I do not understand how this can be and feels like shenanigans to me. I notice this has been discussed earlier then the moderator replied thus to a question as to how this could happen Can you explain why this is happening?
Yes - the human animal has a remarkably short memory retention of specific images casually viewed in a listing of 100+/- pics. But I took a screen capture of the available pics to be voted on for Dec 8 and it proves its not my memory failing but something is going on.
I am happy to post the screen capture if that is needed to get to the bottom of this.
Model
JoJo
Posts: 26560
Clearwater, Florida, US
spiralpictures wrote:
I have found that on the +18 male contest the pictures available to be voted on change during the day i.e. the number of pictures increases. Often I vote and then look at the results and a picture has won that was not even on the available list to vote on. This has happened over and over and is an ongoing issue. Happened Dec 8 happened Dec 11 it seems at the last minute the winning pic is added. this is not right.
Since pictures for the contest must be submitted 2 day prior I do not understand how this can be and feels like shenanigans to me.
I notice this has been discussed earlier then the moderator replied thus to a question as to how this could happen
Can you explain why this is happening?
Yes - the human animal has a remarkably short memory retention of specific images casually viewed in a listing of 100+/- pics.
But I took a screen capture of the available pics to be voted on for Dec 8 and it proves its not my memory failing but something is going on.
I am happy to post the screen capture if that is needed to get to the bottom of this. At midnight Pacific time the queue of entries is closed and locked - no additional images may be added after midnight (rather they are put into the queue for the next day)
Yes, the problem you have cited has been reported before but it has never been documented and we have never been able to replicate it.
If you have such a screen capture please send it to me in CAM so that I may forward it to the site techs and programmers.
Photographer
SIP CAPTURE
Posts: 3
Los Angeles, California, US
Sorry but what does it mean "send it to me in CAM"? I have a jpg image of the screen capture how should I send it? or upload it.
thank you
Model
JoJo
Posts: 26560
Clearwater, Florida, US
spiralpictures wrote:
Sorry but what does it mean "send it to me in CAM"? I have a jpg image of the screen capture how should I send it? or upload it.
thank you https://www.modelmayhem.com/contactamod
select "contests"
provide the URL of the screen capture
Photographer
Blaine Dixon
Posts: 1993
San Francisco, California, US
Photographer
Quartzmine Photo
Posts: 80
Sacramento, California, US
The relevant naughty parts are covered, not exposed any more than if wearing a bikini. I would call it not requiring 18+.
Model
JoJo
Posts: 26560
Clearwater, Florida, US
Blaine Dixon wrote:
I would like an official opinion at least by xmas of this image 18+ or not please so I can spread some Xmas cheer! 
https://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/1 … 95eb02.jpg 18+? Look at the pubic area - see the area where pubic hair would grow.
That makes it an M/18+ image
Photographer
Blaine Dixon
Posts: 1993
San Francisco, California, US
Model
JoJo
Posts: 26560
Clearwater, Florida, US
Blaine Dixon wrote:
Thanks! HoHoHo from JoJoJo
Photographer
Blaine Dixon
Posts: 1993
San Francisco, California, US
Model
JoJo
Posts: 26560
Clearwater, Florida, US
Photographer
Quartzmine Photo
Posts: 80
Sacramento, California, US
Contest pool: As of 8:37am 12/16/13, I predict the winner of today's contest will be https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/115842 It will get 49 votes. All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds. (This is not a suggestion that anyone vote or not vote for the image.) Tuesday morning update: (wiping egg off face) Off by 36 votes. Damn. I wonder what happened in the sunlight?
Photographer
Blaine Dixon
Posts: 1993
San Francisco, California, US
JoJo wrote:
Works for me thanks for your blessing
Photographer
KeithD3
Posts: 1493
Saint Joseph, Missouri, US
I try to vote for the POTD and POTD +18 female contests every day. I don't enter much but I enjoy seeing the entries.
I haven't seen an image win that wasn't a well done image and worthy of the votes it received in the last 6 months or so since I became a regular voter.
I also have no complaints about the number of votes, or lack thereof, that my entries have received.
It seems to me the contests are run as fairly as they can be. Every time I have Cam'd an issue it has been dealt with and answered quickly.
Keep up the good work JoJo!
Model
JoJo
Posts: 26560
Clearwater, Florida, US
KeithDewey3 wrote:
I try to vote for the POTD and POTD +18 female contests every day. I don't enter much but I enjoy seeing the entries.
I haven't seen an image win that wasn't a well done image and worthy of the votes it received in the last 6 months or so since I became a regular voter.
I also have no complaints about the number of votes, or lack thereof, that my entries have received.
It seems to me the contests are run as fairly as they can be. Every time I have Cam'd an issue it has been dealt with and answered quickly.
Keep up the good work JoJo! Damn, 1 happy customer... and counting - I'm going to cut this out, frame it and hang it on my wall
Seriously, thank you.
Photographer
Risen Phoenix Photo
Posts: 3779
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
I was thinking to make the contest a little more fair. No images with watermarks should be allowed in the contest. That way the contest will be about the image not the cult following of the photographer and their model friends.
Just a thought.
Photographer
Kent Art Photography
Posts: 3588
Ashford, England, United Kingdom
Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:
I was thinking to make the contest a little more fair. No images with watermarks should be allowed in the contest. That way the contest will be about the image not the cult following of the photographer and their model friends.
Just a thought. I think it would be fairer, but, unfortunately, I think the contests would then become a good resource for stealers of pictures, and many photographers don't want to post pics without logos for that reason.
Photographer
Risen Phoenix Photo
Posts: 3779
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Kent Art Photography wrote:
I think it would be fairer, but, unfortunately, I think the contests would then become a good resource for stealers of pictures, and many photographers don't want to post pics without logos for that reason. Don't forget these are low res images... Who the hell is going to steal a low res image...
Photographer
Stanley L Moore
Posts: 1681
Houston, Texas, US
Our logos really a problem? How often do winning images have a logo compared to a non logo? I have won several times and minor never barked. This is true of other photographers as well.
Photographer
Kent Art Photography
Posts: 3588
Ashford, England, United Kingdom
Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:
Don't forget these are low res images... Who the hell is going to steal a low res image... Are you really suggesting that no-one steals pics on the internet?
Photographer
Risen Phoenix Photo
Posts: 3779
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Kent Art Photography wrote:
Are you really suggesting that no-one steals pics on the internet? No I believe they do. But what value are low res images? I never use watermarks and so far so good. Not really arguing to each their own. Also I am not complaining but was pointing out a way to make the contest fairer to those who complain about vote stacking.
Photographer
Quartzmine Photo
Posts: 80
Sacramento, California, US
A no logo/watermark rule is really the least that could be done. Within the month, one entrant won twice in a row, placed second the next day and then won again. All with large logos and about the same number of votes. I think that's statistically impossible if votes were cast randomly based on visual merit.
When I facetiously predicted who and what image would win the contest at 8 am a day or so after the big winning streak, the vote total mysteriously fell and the entry was in the bottom half.
Everyone who enters photos, no matter how talented they are, works at it. Some invest money. Everyone should be secure knowing that the votes will be based on image quality and not popularity or some other extraneous factor.
2c
Model
JoJo
Posts: 26560
Clearwater, Florida, US
Quartzmine Photo wrote:
A no logo/watermark rule is really the least that could be done. Within the month, one entrant won twice in a row, placed second the next day and then won again. All with large logos and about the same number of votes. I think that's statistically impossible if votes were cast randomly based on visual merit.
When I facetiously predicted who and what image would win the contest at 8 am a day or so after the big winning streak, the vote total mysteriously fell and the entry was in the bottom half.
Everyone who enters photos, no matter how talented they are, works at it. Some invest money. Everyone should be secure knowing that the votes will be based on image quality and not popularity or some other extraneous factor. Doing so would alienate about 50% of the members - not going to happen.
Photographer
Quartzmine Photo
Posts: 80
Sacramento, California, US
>>Doing so would alienate about 50% of the members - not going to happen.
Why don't you take a vote and see? Seriously.
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