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Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:

I haven't changed a single thing.

Why don't you re-evaluate your definition of "observable"?  I hope you weren't just talking about eyesight.  That would be pretty short-sighted of you (pun intended).

Some ways things can be observed:
Direct = Fire
Mathematics = Black holes
Deduced = Dark matter

And now he edits and changes even more...  I love it...

Jan 16 12 06:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Art of CIP wrote:
And now he edits and changes even more...  I love it...

No, I'm just elaborating so you can understand me better.  Seems our definitions of "observable" were conflicting.

Don't give up though wink

Jan 16 12 06:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


dp
Jan 16 12 06:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:

No, I'm just elaborating so you can understand me better.  Seems our definitions of "observable" were conflicting.

Don't give up though wink

I love it, a couple hours ago you were so adamant...


Art of CIP wrote:
The first question was clearly and obviously rhetorical...

Science provides man with a framework to study and understand observable phenomena.  That is to say that it is a human realm of study and knowledge.  What happens if something exists outside the the realm of phenomena that is observable to humans?  Does this mean it does not exist?
ThatLook Visual Media wrote:
Yes wink

But as soon as we put it to a logical test, look at you now - you can't come up with ways to explain the unobservable fast enough...

Jan 16 12 06:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Art of CIP wrote:
But as soon as we put it to a logical test, look at you now - you can't come up with ways to explain the unobservable fast enough...

Are my answers inconsistent?  My answer to your original question is still "yes".  What are you fussing about?

I've already said the "unobservable" doesn't exist.

Jan 16 12 06:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ybfoto
Posts: 652
Oakland, California, US


R A V E N D R I V E wrote:
Christians don't agree on things


as noted by Alexander the Great.

This was brilliant and the thread should have stopped at that comment

Jan 16 12 06:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
In Balance Photography
Posts: 3,370
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Is your point that there are some things that occur outside the natural universe that science does not concern itself with ?
Jan 16 12 06:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MLRPhoto
Posts: 5,753
Olivet, Michigan, US


R A V E N D R I V E wrote:
Christians don't agree on things


as noted by Alexander the Great.

You do realize that Alexander the Great died over 300 years before Christ, right?

Jan 16 12 07:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


In Balance Photography wrote:
Is your point that there are some things that occur outside the natural universe that science does not concern itself with ?

I think that's where he was trying to go.  But there's no means of him getting there by scientific reasoning.

Jan 16 12 07:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Christina__Smith
Posts: 1,202
Modesto, California, US


SKPhoto wrote:
Since you don't believe in God, perhaps you should stay off the hook when it comes to interpreting the Bible.

I find it unfair to discount the existance of something I havent first educated myself on....

genesis 3:7
New Living Translation (©2007)
At that moment their eyes were opened, and they suddenly felt shame at their nakedness. So they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves.

no interpretation needed.

Jan 16 12 07:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


JohnCharles wrote:
Because this would be weird:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF9FM6KqCu4

We'll never see that in Church lol

Jan 16 12 07:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Natalia_Taffarel
Posts: 7,665
Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires, Argentina


Nudity TECHNICALLY is not a sin, lust is (but you should check with someone who cares)

Having said that:

A sin is not NECESSARILY morally wrong.

Even if nudity were a sin, it wouldn't make it necessarily immoral.

Sex before marriage.
Sex not meant for procreation.
Lust

Loads of sins that are not morally wrong in our society.

Philosophy is the mother of all science.
Why? Because some hypotesis existed (and still do) long before observable data.

Having said that: Fairy tales are hardly philosophy
Jan 16 12 07:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SKPhoto
Posts: 25,779
Newark, California, US


Christina__Smith wrote:

I find it unfair to discount the existance of something I havent first educated myself on....

genesis 3:7
New Living Translation (©2007)
At that moment their eyes were opened, and they suddenly felt shame at their nakedness. So they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves.

no interpretation needed.

No interpretation?

Ok, how about little depth?

They however had never originated disobedient intent within themselves.
They were naked before the Fall, and God said it was good.
After, their eyes were opened and they realized they were naked.

Even a blind person knows when they're naked.

What they lost was their innocence.
Before, every body part was the same.  Just like to a small child.
Every part could be used to the glory of God.

After...

Jan 16 12 07:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:

I think that's where he was trying to go.  But there's no means of him getting there by scientific reasoning.

Seriously, I do not speak for you - so please extend me at least the same level of respect and do not speak for me.

Jan 16 12 07:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Christina__Smith
Posts: 1,202
Modesto, California, US


SKPhoto wrote:
No interpretation?

Ok, how about little depth?

I will repeat myself for those who werent paying close enough attention the first time....there are MANY types of Christians with varying viewpoints....... take a valium my friend or go pray or something.

Jan 16 12 07:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:
I think that's where he was trying to go.  But there's no means of him getting there by scientific reasoning.
Art of CIP wrote:
Seriously, I do not speak for you - so please extend me at least the same level of respect and do not speak for me.

Actually, that was my interpretation of what you were saying (Thus, "I think" at the beginning of my sentence).

But certainly, I would love for you to speak for yourself and explain your viewpoint.  I'm all ears.

Jan 16 12 07:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tim Little Photography
Posts: 11,535
Wilmington, Delaware, US


New Kidd Imagery wrote:
This is a serious question.
This is not directed at any one model as I have had about 3 or 4 models reply to my inquiries about nude modeling and they reply saying "I don't pose nude because I'm Christian".

But I have photographed quite a few "Christian" models in the nude. So if it is against the Christian belief to pose nude, why are there models that ARE Christian posing nude?

Are they sinning?

What makes you think it's a sin to pose nude. You state that you have done nude shoots with "Quite a few Christian models..." So why do you think it's sin?

Jan 16 12 07:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Well, let's all quit speculating and ask God himself.

Hey God!  What's your opinion on nudity?  ................................................................  .................................................................   ..................................... ........................ .............................. .......................... ..................... ...................... .................... ................... ................he say's it will be revealed to us in due time.
Jan 16 12 08:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SKPhoto
Posts: 25,779
Newark, California, US


Christina__Smith wrote:

I will repeat myself for those who werent paying close enough attention the first time....there are MANY types of Christians with varying viewpoints....... take a valium my friend or go pray or something.

lol

Jan 16 12 08:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Faith EnFire
Posts: 13,514
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US


Christina__Smith wrote:

I will repeat myself for those who werent paying close enough attention the first time....there are MANY types of Christians with varying viewpoints....... take a valium my friend or go pray or something.

I think most Christians would agree with his interpretation of why adam and eve felt shame



Nudity is not a sin
Lust and Pride is

To invite lust could be considered a sin via pride

and note that the definition on the first page are accurate in regards to Lust and Pride and sins and Christianity. It's a slightly narrower definition than the secular definiton

Jan 17 12 05:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
bobby sargent
Posts: 4,151
Deming, New Mexico, US


R A V E N D R I V E wrote:
Christians don't agree on things


as noted by Alexander the Great.

There were NO CHRISTIANS during the time of Alexander the Great. bs

Jan 17 12 09:18 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Serena Toxicat -Tattoo
Posts: 28
San Francisco, California, US


I worship Bast, but was raised Xian... And no one ever provided me with a decent explanation.
Jan 03 13 01:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photos 4 The Memories
Posts: 1,276
Kewaskum, Wisconsin, US


This post was started back in Jan 15th 2012.
Jan 03 13 01:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


Photos 4 The Memories  wrote:
This post was started back in Jan 15th 2012.

Zombie thread!!!!

Jan 03 13 01:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photos 4 The Memories
Posts: 1,276
Kewaskum, Wisconsin, US


Art of CIP wrote:

Zombie thread!!!!

I am scared of Zombies.

Jan 03 13 02:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MesmerEyes Photography
Posts: 2,889
Tyler, Texas, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:

No, I'm just elaborating so you can understand me better.  Seems our definitions of "observable" were conflicting.

Don't give up though wink

I'm going to make your head spin here.

So by your definition of observable atoms, cells, DNA, ect didn't exist before they were observed? big_smile

Jan 03 13 03:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
DivaEroticus
Posts: 14,447
Fayetteville, Arkansas, US


Old thread is old.
Jan 03 13 04:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Peach Jones
Posts: 6,225
Champaign, Illinois, US


New Kidd Imagery wrote:
This is a serious question.
This is not directed at any one model as I have had about 3 or 4 models reply to my inquiries about nude modeling and they reply saying "I don't pose nude because I'm Christian".

But I have photographed quite a few "Christian" models in the nude. So if it is against the Christian belief to pose nude, why are there models that ARE Christian posing nude?

Are they sinning?

We are born naked, so I don't think it is a sin. I am a Christian and shoot nude models. I consider the nude body as art and I am trying to capture God's masterpieces. I don't consider that a sin

Jan 03 13 05:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
intense_puppy
Posts: 864
Brighton, England, United Kingdom


DivaEroticus wrote:
Old thread is old.

Yeah but the subject is still totally relevant to the modern photographer/model/artist.



Oh, no, wait - it's not is it?.......... big_smile

Jan 03 13 05:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 15,895
New York, New York, US


Perhaps something to do with apples, arsenic and abstinence lol
Jan 03 13 05:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Hair Stylist
Platform Artist
Posts: 157
Chicago, Illinois, US


.....
Jan 03 13 05:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 15,895
New York, New York, US


Muff Rider wrote:
.....

As said by Muff Rider lmao!

Jan 03 13 05:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,788
Olivet, Michigan, US


New Kidd Imagery wrote:
This is a serious question.
This is not directed at any one model as I have had about 3 or 4 models reply to my inquiries about nude modeling and they reply saying "I don't pose nude because I'm Christian".

But I have photographed quite a few "Christian" models in the nude. So if it is against the Christian belief to pose nude, why are there models that ARE Christian posing nude?

Are they sinning?

I've asked maybe 2,000 models about posing nude.  Maybe two or three said they wouldn't for religious reasons.  Or at least, that's all who mentioned it.

Jan 03 13 05:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gianantonio
Posts: 7,713
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


New Kidd Imagery wrote:
This is a serious question.
This is not directed at any one model as I have had about 3 or 4 models reply to my inquiries about nude modeling and they reply saying "I don't pose nude because I'm Christian".

But I have photographed quite a few "Christian" models in the nude. So if it is against the Christian belief to pose nude, why are there models that ARE Christian posing nude?

Are they sinning?

Hey--you might be on to something here.  Could it be that religious beliefs are not consistent across believers of the same faith?  Or even consistent within the same believer?  What a shocking revelation...  big_smile

Jan 03 13 06:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Steve Rh
Posts: 57
Orlando, Florida, US


Gianantonio wrote:

Hey--you might be on to something here.  Could it be that religious beliefs are not consistent across believers of the same faith?  Or even consistent within the same believer?  What a shocking revelation...  big_smile

Exactly.

Some people use religion as a crutch. They may have body issues, they may not want nude photos out there because of work or family, or they just do not want to do nude shoots because of moral issues. They use religion as an easy out answer. Saying they do not want to do nude shoots because one boob is bigger than the other is not an appropriate response to a photographer.

I was recently reading a profile of a model that said they will not pose nude due to religious reasons. However, there are several nude photos of the model in a photographer’s profile.

Jan 03 13 07:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The F-Stop
Posts: 1,436
New York, New York, US


Only when it's done right!
Jan 03 13 09:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rmsoansphotography
Posts: 261
London, England, United Kingdom


New Kidd Imagery wrote:
This is a serious question.
This is not directed at any one model as I have had about 3 or 4 models reply to my inquiries about nude modeling and they reply saying "I don't pose nude because I'm Christian".

But I have photographed quite a few "Christian" models in the nude. So if it is against the Christian belief to pose nude, why are there models that ARE Christian posing nude?

Are they sinning?

Because they do think it is a sin. They also maybe thinking the photos might be used for salacious purposes other than to show their portfolio of them posing in an art nude way, you have to remember that some people "jack off" to anything. I don't think that art nude is wrong, but I maybe wrong here

Jan 04 13 05:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jon Winkleman Photo
Posts: 87
New York, New York, US


New Kidd Imagery wrote:
This is a serious question.
This is not directed at any one model as I have had about 3 or 4 models reply to my inquiries about nude modeling and they reply saying "I don't pose nude because I'm Christian".

But I have photographed quite a few "Christian" models in the nude. So if it is against the Christian belief to pose nude, why are there models that ARE Christian posing nude?

Are they sinning?

If you go to the mythology of Noah and the great flood, things became a mess when the "sons of God married the daughters of man." This referred to the angels falling to earth, falling in love with human women and giving birth to a race of horrible giants.

The Vatican took an arbitrary vote that angels were never corporeal and jettisons the Book Of Enoch from their cannon of dogma. Many other churches kept these ancient early Christian stories that were far older than the Catholic Church.

What is facinating is the elaboration on the human angel hybrids. God punished them for teaching astrology, herbalism, witchcraft, jewelry craft, weaponry and the use of cosmetics. All of which were knowleges not intended for human kind.

Aside from the flood to wipe the earth's state clean, the Book of Enoch goes into great detail i how God punished the angels who taught man forbidden knowledge.

The angel who received by far the worse punishment wasn't the ones that taught witchcraft, astrology or mediumship with the dead. It was the angel who taught man weaponry, jewelry and cosmetology. I laugh my ass off at evangelicals who want to ban Harry Potter for being satanic yet are NRA gun fanatics whose fashion aesthetic is heavy on women's makeup and tacky jewlery.

The bible is frequently interpreted in a very arbitrary manner. Jesus repeatedly tells people to be charitable to the poor and kind to the least amongst us. Jesus never mentions homosexuality. However the American Family Association fights hard to support efforts to slash federal funding for the poor, the ill and the elderly along with trying to make being gay a criminal offense.

I prefer not to argue with those who say artistic nudity is sinful (didn't Jesus wear the equivalent of a g-string on the cross? Quietly I think that anyone who truly wants to live by the letter of scripture has no business in a profession driven by extreme vanity and coveting.

Jan 04 13 05:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
James S
Posts: 811
Spokane Valley, Washington, US


I'm a Christian, but I have no problems whatsoever with nudity. My wife and I are both nudists, I'm a nude photographer, and she's a nude llama.

I have plenty of family and friends, however that view nudity as bad.

It's just a matter of opinion.
Jan 04 13 11:50 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 21,620
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna


New Kidd Imagery wrote:
This is a serious question.
This is not directed at any one model as I have had about 3 or 4 models reply to my inquiries about nude modeling and they reply saying "I don't pose nude because I'm Christian".

But I have photographed quite a few "Christian" models in the nude. So if it is against the Christian belief to pose nude, why are there models that ARE Christian posing nude?

Are they sinning?

It seems to depend on which "Christian" authority figure you ask. Here is the Pope speaking to 1.196 billion [# as of December 2011] Catholics:

On Nudity

Because God created it, the human body can remain nude and uncovered and preserve its splendor and its beauty…

Sexual modesty cannot in any simple way be identified with the use of clothing, nor shamelessness with absence of clothing and total or partial nakedness. There are circumstances in which nakedness is not immodest…

Nakedness, as such, is not to be equated with physical shamelessness…

Immodesty is present only when nakedness plays a negative role with regards to the values of  the person…

The human body is not in itself shameful, nor for the same reason are sensual reactions, and human sensuality in general…

Shamelessness (just like shame and modesty) is a function of the interior person…


Pope John Paul, II
official statement from
“Love and Responsibility”

But, if you happen to be a follower of the Westboro Baptist Church you are going to get a somewhat different answer - - -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c0/Baptists-against-jews.jpg/800px-Baptists-against-jews.jpg

Studio36

Jan 05 13 03:14 am  Link  Quote 
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