j3_photo wrote:
Just look at todays kids for the most part- undisciplined brats.  There are good kids, but overall the attitude I've seen in kids/teens is horrendous. 

Discipline- via a spank or whatever means that doesn't injure is fine.  Stick 'em in martial arts.  Would be nice if more kids studied.

The problem is today most parents are still kids and where not disciplined them self, so they dont know how to properly disciplined their kids, let alone them selfs.

FootNote Fotography wrote:
Spank because she/he is disobeying.

A: Tell them what they can cant do.
B: Explain it to them.
C: "Train" them on what they can or cant do. So they understand and remember.
D: Spank only when the child is purposely and knowingly disobeying.

Physical correction should only be used when your child knowingly says fuck it I am not listening. That being said, each family is different, each kid is different.

I actually have a 16 month old daughter. Honestly, I dont know what I will do down the road. I dont plan on spanking my kid, but we will see what happens down the road.

But the non-spanking techniques work in stopping the situation you describe above equally well.  So why pick the one that causes physical pain over the ones that don't?

Plus, FYI, kids generally don't purposefully disobey.  Yes--they do know some things they do are against the rules.  But their ability to control their impulses isn't fully developed.  So they literally can't keep themselves from doing the disobedient act.  Part of the myth of spanking is that parents will spank for correction of Act X for awhile and then at some point the undesired behavior stops.  The parent attributes the stopping of the behavior to the spanking.  But it was really that the child's brain developed to the point where they could control themselves and act as desired.  The same effect can be achieved with non-spanking techniques over, typically, a shorter period of time.  But for now we are assuming that spanking works as well as other techniques--so pretend I didn't tell you this. 

j3_photo wrote:
Just look at todays kids for the most part- undisciplined brats.  There are good kids, but overall the attitude I've seen in kids/teens is horrendous. 

Discipline- via a spank or whatever means that doesn't injure is fine.  Stick 'em in martial arts.  Would be nice if more kids studied.

A few of those undisciplined brats were at my house the other day.

MoRina wrote:

Oh, I am sure there are more reasons, but those are the most common ones that I have observed.

Ok, sadly, I agree with that.

-Nicole- wrote:
I don't reason with kids.

I am the adult. If I ask them to do something I expect them to do it. I'm not going to bribe a kid with cookies or anything like that.

I don't plan on having kids. I am an aunt to 5 children though.

You aren't very adult with kids. Expecting them to do something without teaching them is wrong. It's the approach of a mentally ill person.

Spanking is hitting. You have admitted to abusing children. Are you aware of that? Smiling about it in your first post makes it even more worrisome.

to edit: because I should explain. I'm not calling you mentally ill, but I know what court appointed psychologists will see, and that behavior of expecting them to know without showing them right from wrong is not the correct way to do things. You have to show kids how to behave. I apologize if I caused you any confusion. My statement isn't to incite anger. I want to correct error in judgement.

Gianantonio wrote:

But the non-spanking techniques work in stopping the situation you describe above equally well.  So why pick the one that causes physical pain over the ones that don't?

Plus, FYI, kids generally don't purposefully disobey.  Yes--they do know some things they do are against the rules.  But their ability to control their impulses isn't fully developed.  So they literally can't keep themselves from doing the disobedient act.  Part of the myth of spanking is that parents will spank for correction of Act X for awhile and then at some point the undesired behavior stops.  The parent attributes the stopping of the behavior to the spanking.  But it was really that the child's brain developed to the point where they could control themselves and act as desired.  The same effect can be achieved with non-spanking techniques over, typically, a shorter period of time.  But for now we are assuming that spanking works as well as other techniques--so pretend I didn't tell you this. 

Kids disobey to push the limits as far as they can of what they can get away with!

Gianantonio wrote:



Actually, I think scientists are required to use as many words as possible in their answers...   

Actually; sometimes; reason is not enough to illicit the correct behaviour in children; so one has to resort to a damn good smack . I thought before your first thread exhanges; that reason was possible with children over about three years old. But in your case there is still clearly a call for it so I thought I'd give you a scnerio where it could happen But I forgot you have no sense of humour other than sarcasm.

M A S T E R S wrote:
I own a retail store. I see children in my store almost every day. Some children are well behaved, and some are absolute brats who listen to nobody. In nearly every case when a child has been an out of control brat in my store, the parent(s) tries "reasoning with them" as a form of discipline. Never works! Neither does a "time out", or threatening to "not get ice cream".

Then there are the children who have some form of consequences if they get out of line, and usually all it takes is the parent reminding them of those consequences, whether it be a swat, or a spanking.

I was spanked as a child, and yeah, it works. Not beaten; spanked. There IS a difference. I spanked my children when needed. They are grown and on their own, and are some of the most responsible, hard working young adults I know of.

Oh, and by the way: My wife and I had tried the "time outs", reasoning, explaining, bribing, you name it. The only results came from spanking.

+1

Good Egg Productions wrote:


Being a kid in the 70's.  We played outside.  We ate fruit snacks and crackers.  Dinner was what was put in front of us and we sat there until we ate it.  And we ate dinner at 6pm with the whole family.  EVERY NIGHT.  A McDonald's Happy Meal was a treat once a month or so.  We got spanked when we got into trouble.  But we did it anyway because it was worth it.



Being a kid today.  They stay inside.  They eat when and what they want and far too much of it.  They usually get to choose what they want for dinner and there's usually a TV on while they eat it.  There's little talking within the family at meal time, if they eat together at all because of scheduling conflicts.  McDonalds is 4 times a week because it's cheap and easy.  When they get into trouble, they go to time out.  Until they throw a big enough fit and then it's back to XBox to keep them quiet.  They don't know or learn consequence.  And the next generation will suffer even more from it.

Interesting. My partner finds it really odd one doesn't see hopscotch grids drawn out these days. Skipping ropes and gambos (home made go carts) are rare too.

I wonder whether the issue of a smack is massively less important than the points you raise; and yet many modern parents think they are progressive next to the bad old days when we'd be brought home by a farmer for stealing his apples and riding his sheep and get a smack for it. Now the kids don't get a smack but the liefstyle you describe many as having could indeed be seen as neglect.

Good Egg Productions wrote:


Being a kid in the 70's.  We played outside.  We ate fruit snacks and crackers.  Dinner was what was put in front of us and we sat there until we ate it.  And we ate dinner at 6pm with the whole family.  EVERY NIGHT.  A McDonald's Happy Meal was a treat once a month or so.  We got spanked when we got into trouble.  But we did it anyway because it was worth it.



Being a kid today.  They stay inside.  They eat when and what they want and far too much of it.  They usually get to choose what they want for dinner and there's usually a TV on while they eat it.  There's little talking within the family at meal time, if they eat together at all because of scheduling conflicts.  McDonalds is 4 times a week because it's cheap and easy.  When they get into trouble, they go to time out.  Until they throw a big enough fit and then it's back to XBox to keep them quiet.  They don't know or learn consequence.  And the next generation will suffer even more from it.

+1000!

Mac is Live wrote:

You aren't very adult with kids. Expecting them to do something without teaching them is wrong. It's the approach of a mentally ill person.

Spanking is hitting. You have admitted to abusing children. Are you aware of that? Smiling about it in your first post makes it even more worrisome.

Teaching a 3 year old to "STOP!!" when the parent says stop can be a life-saving command that must be followed without understanding the why.  If the child is in fear of being smacked because they did not obey the stop command, and learns very quickly to stop when told, it can and will save their lives.

Until the child has the capacity to understand the commands, they must fear the repercussion of not obeying.

Eliza C wrote:

Interesting. My partner finds it really odd one doesn't see hopscotch grids drawn out these days. Skipping ropes and gambos (home made go carts) are rare too.

I wonder whether the issue of a smack is massively less important than the points you raise.

That is true.  It really isn't that important.

Gianantonio wrote:

But the other techniques work just as well.

Not in any case that I have EVER witnessed.

Legacys 7 wrote:
Your simple question got overshadowed with your lecture. If you stop that then you'll get answers. No one is going to take you serious with that nonsense. That's like me telling you how how to raise your kids in your house and that you're doing it wrong.

If I was raising my kids in an ineffective way, I would be the first to want to know it.  I'm not sure why so many people get defensive over it.  I mean it's their kids--I thought most people want the best for their kids.  But I guess not...

Legacys 7 wrote:

different strokes for different folks. Dynamics are different from person to situation.

Sure--and that's what I'm trying to understand:  The "why" behind the different POVs.

Gianantonio wrote:

If I was raising my kids in an ineffective way, I would be the first to want to know it.  I'm not sure why so many people get defensive over it.  I mean it's their kids--I thought most people want the best for their kids.  But I guess not...

Clever!  Trying to make us feel guilty.   

Good Egg Productions wrote:

Teaching a 3 year old to "STOP!!" when the parent says stop can be a life-saving command that must be followed without understanding the why.  If the child is in fear of being smacked because they did not obey the stop command, and learns very quickly to stop when told, it can and will save their lives.

Until the child has the capacity to understand the commands, they must fear the repercussion of not obeying.

You can teach a child to stop. Spanking does not save lives. That is so absurd. I posted some links. You should really read them.

Mac is Live wrote:
What spanking leads to

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-11/opin … PM:OPINION

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/02/health/sh … index.html

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discip … your-child

Spanking is abuse. Please correct your actions with sensibility.

Correlation does not imply causation.

Mac is Live wrote:
What spanking leads to

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-11/opin … PM:OPINION

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/02/health/sh … index.html

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discip … your-child

Spanking is abuse. Please correct your actions with sensibility.

Figures this would come from the land of fruits and nuts.

Gianantonio wrote:
But the other techniques work just as well.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
So you say in your opinion.

Well, no--so says the assumption in the op.  The reality, as published in peer-reviewed journals, isn't so rosy for spanking.  So I was giving spanking a boost by letting people assume it worked equally well.

Mac is Live wrote:
What spanking leads to

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-11/opin … PM:OPINION

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/02/health/sh … index.html

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discip … your-child

Spanking is abuse. Please correct your actions with sensibility.

Count how many times the word "MAY" appears in each of those articles. Not very convincing.

I may go to the post office today. Then again, I may not.

Mac is Live wrote:
What spanking leads to

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-11/opin … PM:OPINION

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/02/health/sh … index.html

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discip … your-child

Spanking is abuse. Please correct your actions with sensibility.

Horseshit...look at todays society with less spanking- horrible!  We have actual people dealing with kids in this very forum on what has worked.

M A S T E R S wrote:

Count how many times the word "MAY" appears in each of those articles. Not very convincing.

I may go to the post office today. Then again, I may not.

I went to the post office today.  I suppose that means I'll cause irreparable harm to my children by spanking them.

FootNote Fotography wrote:

The problem is today most parents are still kids and where not disciplined them self, so they dont know how to properly disciplined their kids, let alone them selfs.

True, then these 'big' kids need a Master as well...teach em some lessons in the Arts.

Mac is Live wrote:
Most people don't want to admit they are wrong.

Here are more links:

http://www.momlogic.com/2009/06/spankin … _abuse.php

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/02 … s-20120702

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/spanking-k … d=16695697

I'll make you a deal.  I won't spank YOUR kids.

j3_photo wrote:

Horseshit...look at todays society with less spanking- horrible!  We have actual people dealing with kids in this very forum on what has worked.

You know more than educated professionals? Your first reaction tells me what I need to know.

Mac is Live wrote:
Most people don't want to admit they are wrong.

Here are more links:

http://www.momlogic.com/2009/06/spankin … _abuse.php

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/02 … s-20120702

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/spanking-k … d=16695697

I used google.  Found my own links.

http://www.parentdish.com/2010/01/05/re … -for-kids/

http://www.circleofmoms.com/welcome-to- … nts-650825

http://madamenoire.com/40373/8-reasons- … your-kids/

http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/f … d-for-kids

See?  It works, according to these doctors.  Or it doesn't.  Who knows.

Good Egg Productions wrote:

I'll make you a deal.  I won't spank YOUR kids.

unless they misbehave in my home and you don't.

Mac is Live wrote:

You know more than educated professionals? Your first reaction tells me what I need to know.

Those educated professional merely make educated guesses.