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first1234
Photographer
Paula VM
Posts: 49
South Pasadena, California, US


George Ruge wrote:
What did the Mom look like?? Nudge nudge, wink wink!!:-))

HAHAHAHA...

Oct 11 12 06:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
figurativearts
Posts: 5,721
Cottonwood, Arizona, US


Paula VM wrote:
HAHAHAHA...

have never had a bad experience yet with mom's as llama herders.
and I have ended up taking a few pics of mom too.

llama herders? sure, please bring your mom.

Oct 11 12 06:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paula VM
Posts: 49
South Pasadena, California, US


figurativearts wrote:

have never had a bad experience yet with mom's as escorts.
and I have ended up taking a few pics of mom too.

escorts? sure, please bring your mom.

You have some beautiful images!

Oct 11 12 06:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 7,541
Imperial, California, US


figurativearts wrote:

have never had a bad experience yet with mom's as escorts.
and I have ended up taking a few pics of mom too.

escorts? sure, please bring your mom.

Yep!! There's a mother and daughter in my port!!:-))

Oct 11 12 06:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
robert b mitchell
Posts: 1,246
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


I have had the ocassional parent come  along to "check me out". The funny thing is that the models get ticked off at the meddling parent.
I stay away from escorts now. Bfs, moms, friends, etc. I can do without unless they ant to act as an assistant. That just happened to day and it worked out very nicely since she was an MUA also.
Oct 11 12 06:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
V Laroche
Posts: 2,745
New Orleans, Louisiana, US


Presley ONeil wrote:

only if one of the people is over 18.

two underage isnt illegal..

Presley has no clue what she is talking about, as usual.

Oct 11 12 06:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,781
Olivet, Michigan, US


Presley ONeil wrote:
Wait a minute its illegal to have sex in Australia until a certain age????


they might be on to something...

It's illegal to have sex until a certain age pretty much everywhere.  Although it isn't the "too young" person who is typically going to have the legal troubles.

Oct 11 12 06:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
IDiivil
Posts: 3,910
Burbank, California, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
My point is ....

  If she's 17 and legally able to sign her own contracts alone, she doesn't need her parents permission.  If she brings them, that's fine.  If she brings her entire family and her family's SO's, that's not fine. 

  With me as a photographer, if I feel danger is lurking, I'm hitting the road.  I'm not trying to get myself and/or an an assistant hurt or killed just to get a picture of some model who might turn out to be a highly photoshopped skank.

  Danger is everywhere ... not just with photographers.  If she's afraid to do her job, she needs to find another job.

... really, dude?

Starting to wonder if the parents had the right of things in this particular situation.

Oct 11 12 06:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Chad Sterling
Posts: 38
College Station, Texas, US


Urban Candy wrote:
Yes, shoot turned out fine and yes in this day and age I think its great that these parents care about their daughter.  I se nothing wrong in that.  My issue is that I wasn't informed they were coming and certainly did not think that after they met me they would become onlookers.

But yes, there could have been worse things to happen for sure...

Since she is legally an adult, then I support the OP's position.

Oct 11 12 07:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rob Photosby
Posts: 2,269
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


Eden Macieira wrote:
What I find strange is getting uncomfortable with it, it shouldn't really matter if you are a professional.

A lot depends on exactly how things are said.  The "weirdo" comment could have been made in a light-hearted fashion where it would be unlikely to cause offence, or it could have been said more seriously where the implicit presumption of guilt would discomfort many people.

Oct 11 12 07:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Innovative Imagery
Posts: 2,815
Los Angeles, California, US


Yes, it is hard to judge tone in the written relaying of events.

I am sure some of you will find it laughable, but there is a energy on set.  That energy can be contaminated by the actions of others.  Surprising the photographer was bad enough.  To have them come out and say they where judging him was even worse.  And then to to not say, "OK, we think you are alright" is also poor form.

The reality is that in 32 years of shooting, I typically photograph with each subject alone.  Sure, certain animals, newborns and engagement couples that didn't happen, but by and large, most of the time it did.  It is about connection with the model and no distractions for either party.

Yes, on pro commercial shoots with crew it is a very different thing.  There are also typically only pro people on set and no amateur models.
Oct 11 12 07:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 15,624
New York, New York, US


Let's pretend in a perfect environment, no one is taking advantage of anyone, there is no fear of getting raped/murdered or anything in-between.

O.K., just a photographer and their subject (s), young or old.

Again, it takes time to understand the subtle and not so subtle nuances that could be overlooked in this business.  The creepo factor.

Let's pretend there is no problem with that either.

On the flip side of the coin, separate from a team on a shoot, meaning the direct participants of the shoot ~

'Other' people can just stomp out/ruin the mojo of the shoot.
That is the crux of the 'no-escort' vibe.
Oct 11 12 07:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Moore Photo Graphix
Posts: 5,288
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Paula VM wrote:
Why do people have a problem with this?

Ever heard of the phrase too many cooks spoil the soup? When you so many people on set, it's difficult to keep eyes on everyone because we can't be in 2 places at the same time. It's one thing to have people on set who are of the creative process (see: MUA, Hair Stylist, Wardrobe, Set Design, etc). It's another to have people on set who are just there for the sake of just being there.

Paula VM wrote:
it can be dangerous for a girl, even an adult to show up alone with some one she doesn't know.

However, the majority of violence acts committed against women are done by people they know. If this ain't a classic case of Mean World Syndrome on display, I don't know what is. 

Paula VM wrote:
As long as they are respectful and not intrusive I personally wouldn't care.

How can you tell that, if you haven't checked and verify those folks beforehand? Back to the OP, how would this model feel if she agree to a high fashion shoot and find out the day of the shoot it was change to a anime cosplay shoot without her knowledge. I doubt she'll be pleased with that type of stunt! Hopefully, she'll understand the importance of honesty and upfront communication if she plans to make a career out of this!

Oct 11 12 07:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl JW Johnston
Posts: 9,375
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


so

much

fail.
Oct 11 12 07:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
hygvhgvkhy
Posts: 2,092
Chicago, Illinois, US


V Laroche wrote:

Presley has no clue what she is talking about, as usual.

You are really sweet lately:/

&as usual a threadjack is going to keep going when it doesnt need to.

I simply said that because while the law may be fact& say one thing, ive never actually heard of someone underage (without an obnoxious age difference) being arrested for having sex.

Can we stay on topic now?

Oct 11 12 08:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 15,624
New York, New York, US


I think Presley can offer some good perspective being 16 years old.
Oct 11 12 08:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,461
Salinas, California, US


PhotographybyT wrote:
The OP wasn't about whether or not someone should accompany the llama - it was about being ambushed. I doubt it would've been an issue if any 17 year old llama brought this up to any photographer during the planning stages of a shoot.

I agree with you.  This was more a problem of poor communication on the part of the llama in not letting the photographer know that her parents would be coming, BUT also a problem of communication when the photographer does not speak up at the time when the parents showed up and made him uncomfortable.

To the OP; Deal with it right then and there, don't wait till it's over just to post about it in the forums.  By then, it's too late.  Likewise, llamas should let us photographers know in advance if they would like to bring someone.  Communication is key!

Oct 11 12 09:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,488
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Karl Johnston wrote:
so

much

fail.

smile

Oct 12 12 12:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


Rich Burroughs wrote:
How many times have I see threads here where people agree to things they didn't want to and then complain about it later?

If you didn't want them around you should have told them so.

This, if you're uncomfortable about it say so rather than put up with it.

I don't know many under 18s with the ability to control their parents actions, all they ever do is pray they don't frakking show them up and embarrass them.

Oct 12 12 01:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
STUDIO2401
Posts: 1,335
Manila, National Capital Region, Philippines


SB Glamour Photos wrote:
If i brought bouncers to a shoot, I am sure it would make the model uncomfortable and think i am a weirdo.

I dont understand why it is always the photographer that has to be the weirdo.

Should i bring my parents to shoots to protect me from weirdo models.

Depends. Where I live, I don't want to be alone with any model. This is because of the rather frequent scams where photographers are accused of improper behaviour and police is all too often prepared to drop the case if enough $$ change hands.

Oct 12 12 02:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Raoul Isidro Images
Posts: 5,977
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Tennis champion Bjorn Borg (Wimbledon, multiple times) was asked after winning his record Grand Slam if the constant noise from several passing aircraft bothered him as it did his opponent.

His answer: "What aircraft?"

He was so concentrated on the game, he never saw or heard the distraction.

A dedicated seasoned photographer would never be bothered or irked by the situation being discussed here. They would be so concentrated with the project as to be aware of any parents, boyfriend, brothers or uncles nearby (but always alert for thieves and robbers).

Lesson: learn to exist with this kinds of situations and the annoyance will fade away in due time after several episodes.
.
Oct 12 12 04:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Moore Photo Graphix
Posts: 5,288
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Raoul Isidro Images wrote:
A dedicated seasoned photographer would never be bothered or irked by the situation being discussed here. They would be so concentrated with the project as to be aware of any parents, boyfriend, brothers or uncles nearby (but always alert for thieves and robbers).

On the other hand, a dedicated seasoned photographer has the right to decide who can and can't be set when he's working. In addition, they great communication skills and zero tolerance for drama.

Oct 12 12 04:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,781
Olivet, Michigan, US


Star wrote:
I always find it funny when photographers say they can't work when people are on set with them

my profile photo had about 20 onlookers

As you the shoots you do become more elaborate and the clients more prestigious you will learn to not be uncomfortable with onlookers. Hell even the smallest shoot will have an art director

People standing behind me when I took the shot

4 other models
2 make-up and 2 hair people for the two models
about 6-8 other hair and make-up people who were on set
the owner of the castle, his wife
my assistant
the wardrobe stylist
a visiting make-up artist who I was having a pre-meeting with after the shoot
Skippy from Family Ties (funny story behind that one)

Other than the owners of the facility, and maybe "Skippy", everyone listed had, apparently, a reason to be there.  None of those reasons were to make sure you weren't a "weirdo" and probably all of the people with responsibilities were expected.

Oct 12 12 02:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,781
Olivet, Michigan, US


Jules NYC wrote:
Let's pretend in a perfect environment, no one is taking advantage of anyone, there is no fear of getting raped/murdered or anything in-between.

O.K., just a photographer and their subject (s), young or old.

Again, it takes time to understand the subtle and not so subtle nuances that could be overlooked in this business.  The creepo factor.

Let's pretend there is no problem with that either.

On the flip side of the coin, separate from a team on a shoot, meaning the direct participants of the shoot ~

'Other' people can just stomp out/ruin the mojo of the shoot.
That is the crux of the 'no-escort' vibe.

the "mojo of the shoot" is dependent to one degree or another on the working relationship / interaction between the model and photographer.  Distractions don't help, unscheduled distractions help even less, and starting out a potentially productive professional relationship by insulting one party is very unlikely to be helpful.

Pretty sure more young women are molested by their fathers than by photographers, but I bet it wouldn't go over well if a photographer grilled the parents when picking up a model at her house.

Oct 12 12 02:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Pete Georges
Posts: 48
Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada


Aaliyah Love wrote:
IF she was over 18 she should of at least ASKED your permission. NEVER bring unexpected or unwanted guests to a JOB! That was very unprofessional of her and kind of creepy on her parent's part. I would of prob canceled the shoot:/

...... + 1 !!

Oct 12 12 02:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 15,624
New York, New York, US


Art of the nude wrote:

the "mojo of the shoot" is dependent to one degree or another on the working relationship / interaction between the model and photographer.  Distractions don't help, unscheduled distractions help even less, and starting out a potentially productive professional relationship by insulting one party is very unlikely to be helpful.

Pretty sure more young women are molested by their fathers than by photographers, but I bet it wouldn't go over well if a photographer grilled the parents when picking up a model at her house.

My position is always a professional one.
Do the work and have fun doing it.
Both can be achieved simultaneously.

Let me put it to you like this ~
If I was forming another band, and say the guitarist's, bassist's, keyboardist's, drummer's *insert girlfriend  (or boyfriend if a girl, *but highly unlikely*) here* were to show up...

It might ruin the vibe.

That is from personal experience with people I had no interest in trying to slay.

As for artistry in general, you can have an audience or not and both scenarios have its pros/cons.

For me, I don't like a peanut gallery.

With modeling, it doesn't matter a lick.

Oct 12 12 05:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,781
Olivet, Michigan, US


Jules NYC wrote:
My position is always a professional one.
Do the work and have fun doing it.
Both can be achieved simultaneously.

Let me put it to you like this ~
If I was forming another band, and say the guitarist's, bassist's, keyboardist's, drummer's *insert girlfriend  (or boyfriend if a girl, *but highly unlikely*) here* were to show up...

It might ruin the vibe.

That is from personal experience with people I had no interest in trying to slay.

As for artistry in general, you can have an audience or not and both scenarios have its pros/cons.

For me, I don't like a peanut gallery.

With modeling, it doesn't matter a lick.

Same here.  smile

Or, nearly all of it.  I want the model's focus on what we're shooting, not distractions, and personally, I choose not to deal with people who fear or threaten me.  I don't make money from this, net, and so I'd better be able to have at least a decent time.  I had fun teaching, and working as a real estate appraiser, both while being very serious and professional about the work.  I can certainly do it now.  big_smile

Oct 12 12 06:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SASSY CAT PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 14
Sterling Heights, Michigan, US


WOW next time I shoot a model Im bringing my Mum and Dad smile
Oct 12 12 07:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14,348
Palm Beach, Florida, US


Eden Macieira wrote:
Some food for thoughts, even if agency signed I would still arrange to go myself with my 17 year old daughter or even older if she wants me there which I can guarantee you she would. I never understood why everyone was so in a hurry to make the kids grow up. I also bet that the agency signed 17 year old did not sign her own contract, the responsibility for her well being was transferred from parents to the agency.

Unless a girl is emancipated for years already, and her parents were not that good, and she dislikes them profusely and doesn't talk to them parent involvement isn't strange at all. It's safe to bet that to about the age of 20 parents would still be heavily involved in their daughter's life if the relationship is good and they are good parents.

What I find strange is getting uncomfortable with it, it shouldn't really matter if you are a professional.

I moved 3000 miles away from my family right after I graduated from high school ( at 18 years old) so I would have to disagree with you on that one. And I have shot with 17 year olds with no parent present but normally when I shoot minors a parent is present ( but I am getting paid).

Oct 13 12 01:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RKD Photographic
Posts: 3,263
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany


Eden Macieira wrote:
Some food for thoughts, even if agency signed I would still arrange to go myself with my 17 year old daughter or even older if she wants me there which I can guarantee you she would. I never understood why everyone was so in a hurry to make the kids grow up. I also bet that the agency signed 17 year old did not sign her own contract, the responsibility for her well being was transferred from parents to the agency...

I doubt the agency would agree to that and even if they did, your daughter would quietly be chalked-up as 'troublesome' ("oh wait, this one's got 'one of those' mothers... Next!") and her bookings would suffer accordingly...

Oct 13 12 02:45 am  Link  Quote 
Model
charvisioku
Posts: 61
York, England, United Kingdom


She should have told you they were coming, and the way they acted was just downright rude. Who even says that? I'm surprised you didn't just keep driving to be honest.
Oct 23 12 12:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rp_photo
Posts: 42,488
Houston, Texas, US


George Ruge wrote:
What did the Mom look like?? Nudge nudge, wink wink!!:-))

http://www.bigsurcalifornia.org/images2/cougar.jpg

Oct 23 12 04:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Alicia Hansen Photo
Posts: 1,962
Durango, Colorado, US


RKD Photographic wrote:

I doubt the agency would agree to that and even if they did, your daughter would quietly be chalked-up as 'troublesome' ("oh wait, this one's got 'one of those' mothers... Next!") and her bookings would suffer accordingly...

Precisely what I was thinking upon reading that post.

Oct 23 12 05:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AspirationImages
Posts: 184
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Urban Candy wrote:
She is 17 years old so in Qld she is an adult.

I don't think so. Although I am not in Qld I doubt if the law is different to to NSW. Adults can drink and vote.

She may be over the age of consent but she is not an adult and can't sign anything and even if she did she could invalidate it once she is 18.

Oct 24 12 01:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Calypso Moon
Posts: 848
Banning, California, US


She should have told you, but at least the parents weren't psychos.
Oct 24 12 02:03 pm  Link  Quote 
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