Piscis Noctis wrote:
daz3d ?
poser ?

what is "daz3d"?

Lovely Day Media wrote:
If you are having trouble finding llamas that meet your criteria, change the criteria.  Simple, right?

sounds so. but it's not. i have compromised for awhile now, and the lackluster results reflect exactly that.

RacerXPhoto wrote:
So your only interest is shooting  long, lean, fit, clean females ???

A: I cant relate to such a limited scope
B:With all due respect I have to question your interest in photography
You have a landscape as your avi..did you shoot it ?
Why not more of that ?
If models dried up tomorrow I'm going to find something else in this world to photograph.

Seconded.

I'd work with you, but I'm not a skinny model, so I wouldn't even bother to contact you because I know I fall outside of your desired "type".

I suggest:
"Lowering your standards". Not in a "shoot with anyone who is willing to", but try to find inspiration in those who are in your area who may otherwise fall a bit outside of your "ideal".

Use every networking site possible. I find a lot of work from MM, and a LOT more work from craigslist.

Travel to where models you would like to shoot are. Make a yearly trip (or more if you can afford it). Or, bring models to you. But, since you spin it like you're 2 hours away from anything, I'm guessing the first option would be more successful.

Again, based on your work alone, I'd work with you. But the general attitude from this post and sort of "I-give-up-ness" lack of bio drive me away. Put positive energy out and I'm sure you'll have better results.

RacerXPhoto wrote:
So your only interest is shooting  long, lean, fit, clean females ???

A: I cant relate to such a limited scope
B:With all due respect I have to question your interest in photography
You have a landscape as your avi..did you shoot it ?
Why not more of that ?
If models dried up tomorrow I'm going to find something else in this world to photograph.

this is model mayhem, not landscape mayhem. the avatar is just an artifact, and who cares about that anyway. i pointed to my DA account which has plenty else to consider. but it is models, not landscapes, that i need to flesh out the concepts that i have in mind.

indefinite anomaly wrote:
Seconded.

I'd work with you, but I'm not a skinny model, so I wouldn't even bother to contact you because I know I fall outside of your desired "type".

I suggest:
"Lowering your standards". Not in a "shoot with anyone who is willing to", but try to find inspiration in those who are in your area who may otherwise fall a bit outside of your "ideal".

Use every networking site possible. I find a lot of work from MM, and a LOT more work from craigslist.

Travel to where models you would like to shoot are. Make a yearly trip (or more if you can afford it). Or, bring models to you. But, since you spin it like you're 2 hours away from anything, I'm guessing the first option would be more successful.

Again, based on your work alone, I'd work with you. But the general attitude from this post and sort of "I-give-up-ness" lack of bio drive me away. Put positive energy out and I'm sure you'll have better results.

okay, the craigslist idea is constructive. it's not something i am familiar with.

as for the rest of what you said, i think you are misreading me. maybe. you look totally fine to me. in other words, my perception of lean. in our fat culture, you are definitely lean. the i-give-up-ness is because i - and my collaborators - have become so frustrated with the utter lack of interest. and yes, locals too. zip.

Lovely Day Media wrote:
BTW ... in revising my search, there appears to be 207 models within 100 miles of you that are at least 5'9 but less than 6'5 and weigh somewhere between 50 and 150 pounds.  This number only represents those who have logged in within 30 days.  It seems like someone would be great for you. 

  Maybe I'm wrong.  YMMV.

i have conducted the same searches. i have found no one who is even moderately suitable.

Orca Bay Images wrote:
For starters, your profile isn't exactly chock full of information about you and how you work. It's a passage from THE BRIDE OF THE MAN-HORSE. Period. How that doesn't just knock the socks right off the models, I'll never guess.

You don't seem to make any effort to make yourself approachable and then you complain that the models don't approach. There's something you can work on.

thanks, i hadn't really thought about that. and i will do something about it tomorrow.

nyk fury wrote:

okay, the craigslist idea is constructive. it's not something i am familiar with.

as for the rest of what you said, i think you are misreading me. maybe. you look totally fine to me. in other words, my perception of lean. in our fat culture, you are definitely lean. the i-give-up-ness is because i - and my collaborators - have become so frustrated with the utter lack of interest. and yes, locals too. zip.

Sea-tac artists community looks functional: http://seattle.craigslist.org/ats/

Well, if I'm misreading you, perhaps other appropriate models are misreading you, too. Hence why I say, positive energy is needed. Not in an artificial way; but at least write a somewhat descriptive "This is who I am, this is what my work is" so that you can allow others to latch on to something and be inspired to contact you.

My magic formula:
Post in artists community once a week or so.

Answer whatever gigs sound interesting on CL.

Browse local people when I feel "stuck" and sort by last activity.


I get fed up often, too; it gets draining to go through 3 weeks of not booking anything when you apply to castings every day. But then if you keep plugging away, something will work out. Or you will finally drive yourself mad and write rambling novels even Franz Kafka wouldn't understand.

Lovely Day Media wrote:
If you are having trouble finding models that meet your criteria, change the criteria.  Simple, right?

  ETA:  I just used the browse feature of this site.  I entered your city (listed on your profile) for a starting point.  Within 50 miles, there are almost 1,000 models.  Of those 773 are female.  I don't think 50 miles is *that* far for someone to drive, especially if the project is mutually beneficial.

  I'm sure there are many more within 100 miles.  At least some of them should seemingly meet your really strict criteria for what they *have* to be. 

  If none of them are, maybe model photography isn't for you but some kind of photography is.

yikes, you keep editing and changing your posts!!!

i do know that part of my problem is the general region that i reside in. it is sort of common knowledge apparently that it sucks here. however i do like to live here. the attractive models are in the east [america] or in LA. but even more so in eastern europe or russia. [from what i see via MM and DA]

indefinite anomaly wrote:
Sea-tac artists community looks functional: http://seattle.craigslist.org/ats/

Well, if I'm misreading you, perhaps other appropriate llamas are misreading you, too. Hence why I say, positive energy is needed. Not in an artificial way; but at least write a somewhat descriptive "This is who I am, this is what my work is" so that you can allow others to latch on to something and be inspired to contact you.

My magic formula:
Post in artists community once a week or so.

Answer whatever gigs sound interesting on CL.

Browse local people when I feel "stuck" and sort by last activity.


I get fed up often, too; it gets draining to go through 3 weeks of not booking anything when you apply to castings every day. But then if you keep plugging away, something will work out. Or you will finally drive yourself mad and write rambling novels even Franz Kafka wouldn't understand.

thanks so much for this input indefinite.

Garry k wrote:
First of all I think it would be a loss for MM if you left as you are one of the true artists ( who frequent the forums)

the realities are that you live a significant distance from a large urban center - where you could possibly hook into a network of like minded people ( includiing models )

your genre and style of photography is not going to appeal to a lot of aspiring fashion models cus it is too dark ,nude and perhaps a bit disturbing for them ( but isnt that the definition of art )thus  not the direction they wish to head

that being said though i think that your work can and does attract a some good models who appreciate your art ( and meet your physical criterea ) Maybe rather than looking for quantities of such models - you should focus on the ones that you do attract , make them your muses and create multiple projects with them

gary, i haven't frequented these forums in over a year! but aside from that, what you are saying is something that i have been thinking. i do not personally see my stuff as all that dark or disturbing. it seems to me even rather plain for the most part. but i do sense that others see it differently.

the main thing is that i seem to be attracting zero models these days. and when you hit zero, then quantity does matter some.

David Kirk wrote:
I really don't have any practical advice, but I sure hope you keep at it.  I love your photography!

thank you david. damn, i really love the intensity of the looks that pervade your port!

nyk fury wrote:

gary, i haven't frequented these forums in over a year! but aside from that, what you are saying is something that i have been thinking. i do not personally see my stuff as all that dark or disturbing. it seems to me even rather plain for the most part. but i do sense that others see it differently.

the main thing is that i seem to be attracting zero models these days. and when you hit zero, then quantity does matter some.

let me rephrase that then

Participate in the forums .....

Garry k wrote:
Also

If the Mountain doesnt come to Mohammed .....

oh, i [think i am beginning to] see what you mean....

nyk fury wrote:
i have conducted the same searches. i have found no one who is even moderately suitable.

Sorry you feel that way.  One more thing to try:  You've listed limiting factors you're conscious of ... what are some of the limiting factors you're not conscious of?

  For instance, do all of your models have to be "attractive" (whatever that means to you)?

Garry k wrote:
First of all I think it would be a loss for MM if you left as you are one of the true artists ( who frequent the forums)

the realities are that you live a significant distance from a large urban center - where you could possibly hook into a network of like minded people ( includiing llamas )

your genre and style of photography is not going to appeal to a lot of aspiring fashion llamas cus it is too dark ,nude and perhaps a bit disturbing for them ( but isnt that the definition of art )thus  not the direction they wish to head

that being said though i think that your work can and does attract a some good llamas who appreciate your art ( and meet your physical criterea ) Maybe rather than looking for quantities of such llamas - you should focus on the ones that you do attract , make them your muses and create multiple projects with them

I agree with Garry about your work.

Maybe consider travelling to the llamas location.

Lovely Day Media wrote:
Sorry you feel that way.  One more thing to try:  You've listed limiting factors you're conscious of ... what are some of the limiting factors you're not conscious of?

  For instance, do all of your models have to be "attractive" (whatever that means to you)?

how can i detail factors i am not conscious of?!

models need to be effective for the designs being considered: is that not the same as 'attractive'?

Images by MR wrote:
Maybe consider travelling to the models location.

i have recently begun thinking about just that. the one critical aspect of that is not being very well prepped on the locations i would be going to. i am very environment-conscious about everything i have done so far....

nyk fury wrote:

what is "daz3d"?

They are both programs to make renderings of "people" in virtual settings.
They allow you lots of control over lots of things.
I know it's not the same as photography, but
if you don't want to compromise, you can get lots and lots
of control in those programs.
I'm sure there are better programs, but I don't know them :S

Garry k wrote:
I would be happy to provide you with the names of some models who would probably work with you in my area ( paid though )

i love vancouver. two years ago made my first and so far only visit there. i kind of didn't want to return to america.

Piscis Noctis wrote:
They are both programs to make renderings of "people" in virtual settings.
They allow you lots of control over lots of things.
I know it's not the same as photography, but
if you don't want to compromise, you can get lots and lots
of control in those programs.
I'm sure there are better programs, but I don't know them :S

oh, i see. skip the meat bodies entirely. actually, i have taken up painting [analog] with the thought that it may come down to that.

Jeffrey M Fletcher wrote:
If you've been inactive it will take some time to get things moving again...Best of luck, I wish I had something more specific for you as I like your work.

actually i think you probably made some really good points. i am very suspicious of my judgement in these matters, which is why i almost but did not quite hang it up a couple of months ago...

nyk fury wrote:
to be precise, i am at the end of my rope. and i am seriously considering hanging up my camera, for good. i just cannot seem to find suitable models to work with. i do not expect much from posting here on MM, but think i might as well give it a shot. i was ill for awhile, and now that i am coming back around i find that things have changed or shifted, and i am seemingly out of vogue. or something. perhaps someone can give me some constructive insight or pointers about where i might look to that i currently have no comprehension of. or perhaps i should just hang it up. i really do not know. it's not an issue of money. seems that paid models are just as ambivalent as trade models, in my current experience. strange.

To answer your question -- I don't know.  (BTW:  I like your images).

But if you will allow me to speculate...

...  We really don't know how you go about finding models.  But speaking personally, I am not a big fan of casting calls.  I just don't believe that they are reviewed by a lot of people, and that's especially true if/when a model searches for casting calls that are within, say, 25 miles of Seattle.  You need to be proactive about finding models -- use the browse feature to find models and then do what you need to in order to entice them to come to you.

...  Or "If the mountain won't come to Mohammed, then Mohammed must go to the mountain".  Consider organizing your own trips to urban centers and use the browse feature -- contact the suitable models in each of those areas.

...  I'm lucky -- I live in an urban center where the community is active & communicates well.  I am a big, big believer in the power of the community.  Get to know your photographers, share references with people who know you.  Further, you could arrange "events", like inviting 4 photographers & 5 models out for a weekend in the country of fun & photography.  Form relationships!  Here's a secret:  (assume that) all models talk with each other -- if you are a good guy, they'll tell their modeling friends.

...  Learn how to use capital letters. 


Good luck.

nyk fury wrote:
how can i detail factors i am not conscious of?!

models need to be effective for the designs being considered: is that not the same as 'attractive'?

The only way I know of to bring the unconscious to the conscious is to dig a little deeper and think about things on a deeper level than you (a person) has before.  If something isn't working, why isn't it working?  Has it ever worked?  If it did, did it work because it made sense or you got lucky? 

  You may need to ask yourself different questions.  You may even need to do something completely different but this is what I do when I'm baffled. 

  I'm not one who believes effective is always the same as attractive.  For instance, my Toyota Camry is effective.  A Ferrari F430 is attractive.  Both will get me from A to B at least sometimes, have a steering wheel, a seat, an engine and transmission but the complexity in the engineering is completely different in execution and philosophy.  They are not designed to do the same thing in the same way.

  What's the definition of attractive?  Does the model have to look like someone you would marry or date?  Does she have to look like someone from your past?  We're talking in the face, size, shape, etc.  Being great at posing and/or taking direction well is important, too, but if she's automatically rejected because she doesn't look like Cindy Crawford (for instance) no matter how great a model she is (she's effective but since she doesn't look like Cindy Crawford, she's not "attractive"), I'd wonder what the issue is that drives this.

  As others have said, retirement isn't desirable from my perspective, either, but one must do what one must do.