Cuica Cafezinho wrote:
Models that feel the need to have body guards and photographers that feel the need to carry a gun to protect themselves, you're in the wrong fucking business.

Yeah, well...if I'm shooting in an industrial area down by the railroad tracks, or an abandoned building in the city of Phoenix (or out in the desert), the .357 is concealed on my person (as is my god-given AND constitutional RIGHT to do so). Sorry if that bothers you, but it's probably a little different here than in sleepy Madison.

I am responsible for my own safety and a good part of the model's safety. And when I've got my face in the camera and maybe $10K of equipment + a beautiful woman, in a semi-remote area, it's a pretty vulnerable situation.

Threatening and violent Predators of any kind (wild dogs or meth addicts) will likely be met with the same overwhelming catastrophic response. Or....just don't fuck with me or the model, and all will be peaceful and warm fuzzys. Positive attitude, and all.
It's all good.

Your BEST protection is your brain...and a good plan. Everything else (like a gun or pepper spray or an "escort") is just a tool.

ArtisticGlamour wrote:
Your BEST protection is your brain...

I'm not about to stink up the photography forum with a gun/God battle but I agree with part of what you said. I think you should work on that part.

Cuica Cafezinho wrote:
Models that feel the need to have body guards and photographers that feel the need to carry a gun to protect themselves, you're in the wrong fucking business.

I really think everyone should carry guns but the bullets should cost $15,000 a piece.
Yes i know Chris Rock said $5,000 but I figured inflation
But that is for another forum.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=866772

Cuica Cafezinho wrote:
llamas that feel the need to have body guards and photographers that feel the need to carry a gun to protect themselves, you're in the wrong fucking business.

Cuica Cafezinho wrote:
I'm not about to stink up the photography forum with a gun/God battle but I agree with part of what you said. I think you should work on that part.

You already "stunk it up" with your comment about folks who carry self-protection should be in "another fucking business". But, nice attempt to spin it.

Thankfully (in Arizona), It's my right to protect myself (and the llama) with the proper tool. Not everyone shoots in Madison:

Typical Phoenix "emergency" 911 police response...23 minutes.
Typical .357 "emergency" response...1400 feet per second.
Pretty simple equation.

Having situational awareness (and a plan) is the BEST defense.
Whether you use a gun or an "escort" as your "tool".

natural beauties of qld wrote:
However, the proportion of models who bring escorts and produce a sub-standard shoot is far higher than among the models who do not need an escort.

This. From my experience about 10:1 ratio.

John Allan wrote:
If the photographers interested in shooting these escort-demanding models, would grow a pair and just refuse to use them with their risky (monetary and safety) demands, then these 'models' would be forced to act professionally or not model.

Of course there are enough timid GWCs on places like MM to keep these wannabe girls in g-string dollars for the 'pretty years' they have left.

Sometimes I don't care if a friend or escort comes along.

But I'm sure a few models got irritated when I asked if their escort is willing to sign a criminal background check release, and the model cover the cost of the background check. Considering it's their wish for their person to be around my equipment.

I generally move past profiles where the escort demand is stated demandingly, because I've networked with enough already whom they should be expending effort to message and ask about the shoots.

;-)

New Art Photo wrote:
....I understand the need to be cautious, but often the girls who need llama herders live in such a shady world ( and have dealt with such creepy guys and thus have so little trust in people)  I frankly don't want to bring them into MY world.

I really like how you put that.

Why bring chaos into your world? This is the best example that makes me "get it." I don't want drama and now see that an llama herder demand is drama baramoter on multiple levels.
Jen-no llama herders here...

Lisa Delano wrote:
So, if I could write the book :-) , photogs please allow us to bring escorts, it makes us more comfortable even tho we know it is not necessary 99.99% of the time.

I think you would serve yourself well in the future by using the word "me" instead of "us". There isn't a llama in my book that would want you speaking for them.

Do yourself a favor and invest some time in understanding who you are, what you know and where you are at.

If you want more details, post a question in critique.

Lisa Delano wrote:
Honestly, I've heard horror stories both ways.

Horror story #1: The photographer or the person pretending to be one turns out to be less than professional. In the very very few cases this is true, it is important to have protection especially when we are often going to meet someone, often in a new place for the first time. It just makes it more comfortable, along with checking references. Having an escort is really a reflection on our society and not on the 99.999% wonderful photogs out there.

Horror story #2 On the other hand, we models must ensure that we bring an escort that does not interfere in a professional shoot or the model/photog professional relationship in anyway. The shoot is between the model and photog and the escort needs to know that their role stops with making sure the situation is fine for us to create art, period. We need to bring an escort and not some boy friend, jealous knucklehead or thug who thinks his opinion or approval matters or someone that will disrespect the photographer, the shoot or the photog's property, time or talent. That is our responsibility as much as it is for the photographer to help us feel comfortable... in my opinion.

So, if I could write the book :-) , photogs please allow us to bring escorts, it makes us more comfortable even tho we know it is not necessary 99.99% of the time.

Models, we need to know our responsibilities here too, act professional and bring an escort that knows their role and acts as professional as we expect from ourselves and our photographers.

You have a right to bring a escort but few of the photographers I know allow them and none of the pro models I know bring them.   I would never pay a model who required a escort and for sure not on a TFP shoot.   One option beyond vetting those you work with before a shoot is too take a friend too meet the photographer.   Arrange a time to have them return.   When I lived in Texas I did a shoot with another shooter at South Padre Is.   Five models came along with five escorts.   It was ridiculous.   We looked like a film crew and attracted lots of unwanted attention.   Models who require escorts tend not too model very long and miss great chances too work with better people.

Some things to consider.   Will there be a MUA or other models?   Bringing a escort may make the models who didn't uncomfortable.   Is there a place for the escort besides where you will be shooting?   I note you use the word professional.   Part of being a working pro is not needing people too make you feel comfortable and if safety is the issue.   Why would you put yourself and your escort in possible danger?

Misty Matthews wrote:
So let me ask all of you that oppose to an escort. What if the model has a medical condition that it would just be easier if there was an escort with them at all times?

I've made that exception a couple of times in the past.  The difference here is the intent.

The other person isn't there to leer and threaten and make sure I don't rape and murder the model.  They're there simply to make sure that the model's condition is kept in check.

One of the models I've worked with was prone to seizures due to a medical condition she has, and they can happen completely randomly for no obvious reason.  It doesn't usually happen to her on a shoot, but it has happened for her during shoots a couple of times in the past.  Her husband is extremely supportive of everything she does (which I've found quite common in instances such as these), and was only there in order to be able to help her in the event she had a seizure (she did not).

I don't agree with the "Well, maybe she shouldn't be modelling" type comments.  How many times have we seen amazing and inspirational examples of people overcoming disability to do things that fully able bodied people don't have the balls to do?

Orcatek Photography wrote:
I guess bringing an escort is easier than doing research on who you are shooting with.

Exactly.

I'd like to examine the whole "escort" concept, and what is an "escort"? Really.

Is the "escort" supposed to "protect" the model by "intimidation"? Is the escort supposed to sacrifice physical safety so that the model will escape danger in such events? Is the "escort" just a "tool" for the model to use for her own safety? Why not just get a dog? LOL!

WHAT is the "job" of an "escort"? And HOW am I going to get good "chemistry" and "connection" from a model who thinks this way in the first place? Nope. If the trust isn't pretty well developed before the shoot...then no thanks.

NO divas, no drama, no thanks.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
You have a right to bring a escort but few of the photographers I know allow them and none of the pro models I know bring them.   I would never pay a model who required a escort and for sure not on a TFP shoot.   One option beyond vetting those you work with before a shoot is too take a friend too meet the photographer.   Arrange a time to have them return.   When I lived in Texas I did a shoot with another shooter at South Padre Is.   Five models came along with five escorts.   It was ridiculous.   We looked like a film crew and attracted lots of unwanted attention.   Models who require escorts tend not too model very long and miss great chances too work with better people.

Some things to consider.   Will there be a MUA or other models?   Bringing a escort may make the models who didn't uncomfortable.   Is there a place for the escort besides where you will be shooting?   I note you use the word professional.   Part of being a working pro is not needing people too make you feel comfortable and if safety is the issue.   Why would you put yourself and your escort in possible danger?

All your points make great sense. I guess I am trying to say that it is both parties responsibility to stay safe and work together, especially the first time meeting, if it takes escorts or friends or reference checking then do it right and be upfront and work it out, case by case together with the model and photographer. When I have done that, it has always worked out. "Pro" or agency models (I am guessing) are working through agencies where much of the check out and references has already occured, not sure.

To your specific example, if an escort makes another model uncomfortable, he or she should leave the room or do whatever is required to make everyone comfortable...I would try to work that out with common sense and being flexible. I have had a few times where my escort brought me and the studio was too small or others were involved and after dropping me off and meeting the photographer left and had a 3 hour coffee somewhere :-)

Lisa Delano wrote:
Honestly, I've heard horror stories both ways.

Horror story #1: The photographer or the person pretending to be one turns out to be less than professional. In the very very few cases this is true, it is important to have protection especially when we are often going to meet someone, often in a new place for the first time. It just makes it more comfortable, along with checking references. Having an escort is really a reflection on our society and not on the 99.999% wonderful photogs out there.

Horror story #2 On the other hand, we models must ensure that we bring an escort that does not interfere in a professional shoot or the model/photog professional relationship in anyway. The shoot is between the model and photog and the escort needs to know that their role stops with making sure the situation is fine for us to create art, period. We need to bring an escort and not some boy friend, jealous knucklehead or thug who thinks his opinion or approval matters or someone that will disrespect the photographer, the shoot or the photog's property, time or talent. That is our responsibility as much as it is for the photographer to help us feel comfortable... in my opinion.

So, if I could write the book :-) , photogs please allow us to bring escorts, it makes us more comfortable even tho we know it is not necessary 99.99% of the time.

Models, we need to know our responsibilities here too, act professional and bring an escort that knows their role and acts as professional as we expect from ourselves and our photographers.

I for the most part do not have an issue with escorts. But like any pet they are the owners (model's) responsibility for the feeding, cleanup, maintaining and potty training. The financial responsibility for feeding transportation and housing of the escort is completely the model's.

In the studio they are going into the green room. On location they hang out in the makeup area or starbucks.
They are never a part of the shoot, that simple.

Cuica Cafezinho wrote:
I think you would serve yourself well in the future by using the word "me" instead of "us". There isn't a llama in my book that would want you speaking for them.

Do yourself a favor and invest some time in understanding who you are, what you know and where you are at.

If you want more details, post a question in critique.

Good point, it is "me" from now on, even though my friends in similar posiitons would generally agree with me. Short of just insulting me, I think my point remains that llama and photog need to work together to stay safe, communicate and be responsible, check references etc. I don't want to meet the one bad guy out there (please understand and respect that) and you should not be subjected to a llama bringing a thug, jealous boyfriend or thief which I have been told occurs (I understand and respect that). So, I would suggest we work toward the common goal of safety but in the end, if you don't want an escort and I do, then we don't work together and both of us have that choice to make.

fullmetalphotographer wrote:

I for the most part do not have an issue with escorts. But like any pet they are the owners (model's) responsibility for the feeding, cleanup, maintaining and potty training. The financial responsibility for feeding transportation and housing of the escort is completely the model's.

In the studio they are going into the green room. On location they hang out in the makeup area or starbucks.
They are never a part of the shoot, that simple.

LOL! I agree on all points!

Lisa Delano wrote:

All your points make great sense. I guess I am trying to say that it is both parties responsibility to stay safe and work together, especially the first time meeting, if it takes escorts or friends or reference checking then do it right and be upfront and work it out, case by case together with the model and photographer. When I have done that, it has always worked out. "Pro" or agency models (I am guessing) are working through agencies where much of the check out and references has already occured, not sure.

To your specific example, if an escort makes another model uncomfortable, he or she should leave the room or do whatever is required to make everyone comfortable...I would try to work that out with common sense and being flexible. I have had a few times where my escort brought me and the studio was too small or others were involved and after dropping me off and meeting the photographer left and had a 3 hour coffee somewhere :-)

Hi, Lisa.   Most photographers who have websites and or have been here for a while can be easily tracked via their IP address.   With that information a person can easily find their ISP and law enforcement can find them.   A cell number unless its a pay as you go phone is attached too a credit card with that person's name.   Home or business addresses can be Googled.   Models can look at the tags other models have left the photographer.   Your escort left and returned for you.   There are many options that can make all of this work.   Look, I understand how some models feel.   Especially doing nudes with a stranger in his home or like I've done in old factories or out of the way areas.   

I admire the courage of my models who have been willing to go too crazy places and shoot alone.   Most of my sessions couldn't have happened had they required a escort.   That being it might be hard too find friends willing too invest hours hanging out watching their friends.   I don't know if you for example have shot at unusual places.   One spot I did a shoot at is a burned out church.   Part of being a working pro is doing things without friends and or escorts being involved.   Lets face it most of us are middle aged or older and only dangerous to a cheeseburger and fries.

Click Click Click wrote:
I am new to this and just hiring a couple models for a shoot in LV next month, I would like to try to shoot boudoir, lingerie and some artistic body scapes.

Some of the modes profiles say they always bring an escort and that it is “nonnegotiable if you don’t like it don’t ask to hire me” I guess I understand why some feel the need to bring an escort, apparently there have been issues in the past… to bad that not everyone was able to keep professional.

Why are some of the models so defensive about bringing an escort? Do the escorts get in the way? Inhibit the shoot?

As a photographer what do I need to be aware of here?

Here's the deal. Models wanting to bring an escort is going to vary. Some may be warrant while others may not. My advice to you, go with your comfort zone. If you plan on allowing escorts, read between the lines and see if the model is going to be a drama queen, bringing drama to the shoot. Some will bring an escort and it's cool.

If not allowing an escort is not your thing, like myself, my advice to you is look for models that are cool with it. The last thing that you need are surprises on a shoot.

C R A W F O R D wrote:
OK I usually avoid these types of threads but, I feel like your being sincere with your question. Sooo I'll offer up my "opinion"

When your browsing profiles looking for a model. You'll generally see a night and day difference between the quality of work from models who do this as their job, versus the models who are dead set on escorts and do this as a hobby. And when I say quality of work I mean... look at the models work, you can tell the ones who know their shit and you can see who works with kickass photographers and who doesnt.

Also, realize that just because someone has a model portfolio, it doesnt mean they're a model.

Personally, If I see this "its my right to bring an escort" in someone's profile I wont shoot with them. It's usually not worth the headache for me.

With all that said, this is what works for me and what has always produced the best results for me. I obviously cant speak for every model out there which is why I made it a point to use terms like "generally and personally".

You may want to think about paying a seasoned pro model. They always know tons of poses that work well. They often have a good understanding of how to work under lights and what types of lighting works best on them. And best of all they're pretty much always willing to help and give information IF you ask for it during your shoot. (let them know your new and wanting to learn)

Ohhh and keep in mind.. your asking for lingerie, boudoir and body scapes. Those types of shots from a newish photographer can be interpreted as "pervy creeper" which is why some models may prefer to bring an escort. It's understandable if you think about it. If you really want to shoot that stuff by all means do what you enjoy, but at the same time realize how that can come across to a complete stranger. Again, you may want to think about hiring a profesional model who specializes in that type of work. There are a ton of good ones who are used to working with new people and dont mind it at all.

and in the end... no matter who you decide to work with or what route you take... Always ALWAYS ALWAYYS be as polite and profesional as possible. This will give you a good reputation and over time that word gets out and more people are happy to work with you based on that outstanding reputation.

Take care and good luck,
Tim

+1,000

Karlieh G wrote:
I am new to modeling and I always ask the photographer if they mind if I bring an escort. Usually they don't mind. It makes me feel more comfortable working with the photographer and lets me know they don't have any "bad intentions". I usually don't bring an escort anyways... I just ask. I have brought my boyfriend with me (and he was holding lights, etc.) and the photographer had absolutely no problem with it (and I don't see why he would).

If you think a photographer has bad intentions, then you shouldn't even consider using them, but it also makes me guess that you did nothing to check the photographer out -- no phone calls, no pre-shoot discussion, no pre-shoot meeting, no (or barely) looking at his portfolio.

It's a little more effort, but bringing a boyfriend for "protection" as a shortcut to professional practice is lazy.

Shot By Adam wrote:

- Escorts make shitty sandbags
- Escorts don't hold reflectors well
- Escorts distract the model in more ways than can be counted.
- Escorts need babysitting
- Escorts frequently cause shoots to end too soon because they are bored
- Escorts get jealous and have been known to cause fights on the shoot
- Escorts cause models to be late
- Escorts cause models to flake alltogether
- Escorts interrupt the creative process of a shoot
- Escorts steal equipment
- Escorts frequently have no clue about anything that takes place on a shoot but always provide ideas.

If you still need a escort? I will bring my wife to look after my interests.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
You have a right to bring a escort  ...

I see this a lot, but I'm guessing that photographers who say this more likely mean: "You have the right to have the OPINION that you may bring an escort", but no model has that as a right ... however,  she can ask the photographer's permission to bring one.

Shot By Adam wrote:



There are about 22 trillion escort threads on this website and none of them ever go well. Congratulations OP, you just opened up one massive can of worms.

Nailed it ... a picture or a graph in this case is worth a thousand words.

Op ... there are plenty of real pro models who don't require escorts ... word to the wise ... if you don't want or have time for headaches and  BS ... check model references and hire a freelance pro.

Be easy,

Alvin

Swank Photography wrote:
Comeon guys...this thread is over a year old: Dec 05 12 08:52 am

Why don't we let this old dog rest in peace?

It's fun   ... lol !

Leo Howard wrote:
You guys do realize this is a zombie thread from 2012, right?





OP was on Dec 05 12 08:52 am / and for some reason this thread just keeps coming back

and if they'd started a new thread, people would be complaining they don't search. Make your mind.

MC Seoul Photography wrote:

and if they'd started a new thread, people would be complaining they don't search. Make your mind.

Exactly they don't need a new thread - ever!