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Photographer
Kat Squibb
Posts: 131
Fayetteville, North Carolina, US


Go on, have at it. Rip me a new one, but honestly, I haven't been on these forums in a while and I now remember why. Most people are so catty and have snotty remarks to most posts. I really do wish more people on here were more supportive of each other, helpful, and willing to share their knowledge and experience with others to help each  other grow. We are all in the same industry and need to start supporting each other rather than tearing everyone down. Its really just childish and some people have so much negative energy around them and obviously way too much time on their hands. smh.
Dec 06 12 08:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JimPixLA
Posts: 54
Los Angeles, California, US


Haven't been around much either.  I dunno.  I wonder if it's sort of a way to make ME feel better if I say something snotty to YOU.  Silly - but c'est la vie.
Dec 06 12 08:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JimPixLA
Posts: 54
Los Angeles, California, US


BTW - you have some nice work in your port...  Keep shooting.  Don't chat.  Works better over time!
Dec 06 12 08:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kat Squibb
Posts: 131
Fayetteville, North Carolina, US


LALightPhoto wrote:
BTW - you have some nice work in your port...  Keep shooting.  Don't chat.  Works better over time!

Thanks. Appreciate it smile

Dec 06 12 08:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


Well that isn't a very positive addition to the community now is it?
Dec 06 12 08:19 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Carolina Goddess
Posts: 146
Augusta, Georgia, US


LALightPhoto wrote:
Haven't been around much either.  I dunno.  I wonder if it's sort of a way to make ME feel better if I say something snotty to YOU.  Silly - but c'est la vie.

I have gotten that as well. Some of the forums have become a place to tear people apart instead of offer helpful constructive criticism. Some people find it easier to say negative things than to offer solutions.

Dec 06 12 08:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 27,167
Dearborn, Michigan, US


Some people are not nice!   sad
Dec 06 12 08:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPRINGHEEL
Posts: 38,135
Gibraltar, Michigan, US


I've never noticed it
Dec 06 12 08:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kaouthia
Posts: 3,152
Lancaster, England, United Kingdom


Kathleen Larsen wrote:
Most people are so catty

We're effing not!

Kathleen Larsen wrote:
and have snotty remarks to most posts.

We effing don't!

Kathleen Larsen wrote:
I really do wish more people on here were more supportive of each other, helpful, and willing to share their knowledge and experience with others to help each  other grow.

I think most do.  But I think most also have little tolerance for idiots (which is different from inexperienced).  There's far too many on sites like this and similar sites who seem to make posts intentionally to cause these kinds of reactions (because they know it's going to happen).

And then there's those that post and ask questions, and then dispute every single answer they receive, because it didn't back up some ridiculous theory or purchasing decision that they were sure was right and "best".

So, some deserve everything they get.

Dec 06 12 08:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jhono Bashian
Posts: 2,432
Cleveland, Ohio, US


don't forget where you are...  it's MM a plethora of all walks of life and all levels of professionalism and creative literary.
Dec 06 12 08:27 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Melodye Joy
Posts: 542
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US


Sometimes your accomplishments end up being someone else's reason to complain. Other times, people give what they think is constructive criticism, but end up badgering other artists, unintentionally (I'd like to think so, anyway). 

It's called real life. We have kids on the playground messing with one another, we have high school cliques, we have office cattyness and online...it's far too easy to say what we want with little-no repercussions because often, we don't know who we are speaking to, outside of a social network anyway.

I, too, wish people could just get along and lift each other up rather than tear others down, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Unfortunate but true.
Dec 06 12 08:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeffrey M Fletcher
Posts: 4,330
Asheville, North Carolina, US


People here have been quite helpful to me, and funny.
Dec 06 12 08:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kat Squibb
Posts: 131
Fayetteville, North Carolina, US


Jeffrey M Fletcher wrote:
People here have been quite helpful to me, and funny.

Yes, seldomly I do see helpful posts. But I also think for every 2 helpful responses, there are 10 snotty and sarcastic ones. Im not trying to say that there aren't dumb questions, because obviously there are. But more/less if you have nothing constructive to contribute to a thread, then why bother posting anything.

Maybe Im just in a mood today (I'm usually pretty b*tchy myself)  but I guess I just get tired of going through different threads and seeing so much negativity.

Dec 06 12 08:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kaouthia
Posts: 3,152
Lancaster, England, United Kingdom


I think half the problem is that people assume that when you do respond with a little jokey comment, they automatically assume you're just being offensive and so respond in kind.

Just happened to me in another thread.
Dec 06 12 08:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L2Photography net
Posts: 2,512
University City, Missouri, US


I find the forums very helpful and often learn from others on here.

What I do see to often on here is some one that says they are very experience and asking a very basic question about photography that they should know or a question about their camera they could have found out if they read the manual.
They also call them selfs a pro and charging and then getting on MM asking how to shoot something they never have done.

Also to many people only want to hear nice things about their work. If your work is sub par and you don't like being told that don't ask. How else are you going to up your game and learn if you are always told that is nice.

I have friends that are good photographers that I will ask them to Critique a photo of mine they are not going to just say thats nice. If something is wrong with it they will point it out. Its not personal its about the photo NOT the photographer.
L2
Dec 06 12 08:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


I do understand what you're saying and there are times when it's more annoying than others. But think of it another way...

How incredibly boring would these threads be if everyone always agreed? If every critique thread was like a self-awareness seminar in the mountains of Sedona. If every 5'2" aspiring fashion model was told to "follow her dreams."

I'd much rather have the critique threads where someone tells the model that her makeup in that image would be enough to make a train take a dirt road. One, because it's far more entertaining and two, because, however unfiltered it may be, it's often the harsh reality.
Dec 06 12 08:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Blue Cube Imaging
Posts: 11,168
Ashland, Oregon, US


Moderator Note!
Moved to off-topic.
Dec 06 12 08:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Carlos Occidental
Posts: 10,546
Glendora, California, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:
Well that isn't a very positive addition to the community now is it?

Hehe.  Now THAT's good humor.

From a photographer's standpoint:
Some people have been doing things their way for 40 plus years.  They've tried it other ways, but it just didn't work for them.  So, when they type their experienced and brilliant responses to threads asking a question, they lose it when another photographer chimes in with a different way of doing things.  They feel attacked when another photographer comes in and says they do things differently. 
Also, many people feel they HAVE to have the last word.  They'll continue to argue page after page until nobody responds to their last or previous posts. 
Soapbox is about opinions, rarely fact.  Many try to spout opinions as fact.   Therein lies the problem with soapbox. 
SF2 is about sexual innuendo, and parody threads.  Basically, bored people wanting to chat. 
Off topic is for trolls with nothing better to do.  This is a modeling, photography, and all related industries website.  Starting threads and responding to threads in Off Topic is the very definition of trolling, but we allow it if it doesn't get out of hand.

Dec 06 12 08:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,222
Columbus, Ohio, US


Everyone that wanders in here.....learn to seperate the wheat from the chaff, and you will do fine.
Dec 06 12 08:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KMP
Posts: 4,706
Houston, Texas, US


Kaouthia wrote:
I think half the problem is that people assume that when you do respond with a little jokey comment, they automatically assume you're just being offensive and so respond in kind.

Just happened to me in another thread.

Yes the intent of the commenter can be misinterpreted. Sarcasm and wit don't always come across as such in the printed word.

You'd think after all the years of the internet communication and ALL the issues with misinterpretation, that we'd have invented a way to communicate the body language and tone that is lost from face to face communication.

The worst of it is the anonymity of the internet.  People feel there is no consequence or repercussions from their comments, if you don't actually know who they are.
I use my real name and it does have an impact on my comments.

My comments may not always been supportive, but I try to make them meaningful. If someone wants a critique, I won't say it's TERRIBLE!, and leave it at that.

I address the issues I may see wrong and/or right with an image.

Some threads are just too funny and/or ridiculous to take seriously.  Those give me quite a good laugh and will always keep me coming back to MM for its entertainment value.  smile

Other threads I may not comment on but have found many to be VERY informative from a technical and aesthetic aspect.

Dec 06 12 08:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul AI
Posts: 1,046
Shawnee, Oklahoma, US


I'm not sure which forum this was originally posted in, so I'm not sure if it is referring to a specific forum or all MM forums in general.  I would definitely say that I find most people in the photography and digital art and retouching forums to be helpful most of the time.
Dec 06 12 08:55 am  Link  Quote 
Model
modeled
Posts: 9,334
San Diego, California, US


Small Fruit Pits wrote:
Everyone that wanders in here.....learn to seperate the wheat from the chaff, and you will do fine.

THIS

Dec 06 12 08:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5,209
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


The MM Forums always give me a nice warmth fuzzy feeling inside. smile
Dec 06 12 09:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,788
Portland, Oregon, US


Kathleen Larsen wrote:
Go on, have at it. Rip me a new one, but honestly, I haven't been on these forums in a while and I now remember why. Most people are so catty and have snotty remarks to most posts. I really do wish more people on here were more supportive of each other, helpful, and willing to share their knowledge and experience with others to help each  other grow. We are all in the same industry and need to start supporting each other rather than tearing everyone down. Its really just childish and some people have so much negative energy around them and obviously way too much time on their hands. smh.

Garbage in -- garbage out...

In other words ---

A) Quality of questions - if people's threads and/or replies that are a rehash of crap, that tends to lower people's patience and leads to an increased likelihood of a snarky response.

B) Quality of users - The composition/makeup of MM is constantly changing, and many feel that some of the more serious/professional users are leaving the site while/due-to the growing population of MySpace grade wannabee's.  That also causes things to change a lot, primarily frustration, less patience, and "A" above.

C) Society - Our overall population and the manifestation of the collective personality changes over time, currently people are still, on-whole, frustrated, stressed, unhappy, and overall there appears to be a growing sense of selfishness at large.  Clearly that would spill over into online communities too.

D) Technology - People appear to become more and more detached via technology and forget that they are actually dealing with people, not avatars or video games, but real people.  At large, it is easy to forget that YES, there is a person to whom you're writing, and treat them the same as you would face-to-face rather than just saying what you're thinking.

E) Tolerance - Our society at large appears to be becoming less tolerant of "others", increased blame and polarization results in more snark.

F) Finally - Fucking "Search" before you post.  For fuck sake people, Google your damn questions before asking them, run an MM AND Sendu search to see if it is already asked and answered.  Don't waste people's time with asking the same things that have been previously discussed.  Search first, THEN ask.

G)  Gah, I forgot one.  Increased competition... digital is resulting in a flood of people who think they are photographers, and more and more consumers are having a difficult time accessing quality.  When the pie seems like it is shrinking or there are more people trying to get pieces of the same pie, folks are not going to be as courteous towards those who are literally trying to take a slice out of their pie, or the whole pie.

It is one thing to compete fairly for clients/business, and totally another when people think they are somehow entitled to your knowledge/experience AND they want to know what you know TO take business away from you.

Yes, we are in the same industry, people share information out of friendship NOT obligation.

There is no entitlement that people should share their knowledge and experience.

Many people have worked VERY hard to know what they know, and there is no grand duty to share that information with others, if/when that happens, it is a courtesy.

This is business, every man (or woman) for themselves.  There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Edit: Blue Cube moved this out of Photography Talk while I was posting, some of my comments were more specific to that forum, as opposed the site at large.

Dec 06 12 09:03 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SME
Posts: 20,877
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US


Small Fruit Pits wrote:
Everyone that wanders in here.....learn to seperate the wheat from the chaff, and you will do fine.

Agreed.  While yes, there is lots of one-upmanship that happens here, there are also a lot of knowledgeable, talented people who are generous with their experience and know-how.  I've learned a tremendous amount from the people I've met here, and made awesome connections that have led to fantastic working relationships and friendships.  Just gotta learn what to tune out, is all.  smile

Dec 06 12 09:03 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kat Squibb
Posts: 131
Fayetteville, North Carolina, US


Paul AI wrote:
I'm not sure which forum this was originally posted in, so I'm not sure if it is referring to a specific forum or all MM forums in general.  I would definitely say that I find most people in the photography and digital art and retouching forums to be helpful most of the time.

This was originally posted in the photography forum. Simple questions like "looking to upgrade my strobe kit. any recommendations" were met with the most sarcastic responses (9/10 were snotty) and it really just brings down the whole group. Yes, some questions are intentionally stupid and I'm all about giving up front, brutal and honest critiques when asked for, but some of these comments in these forums are just plain rude.

Believe me, Im not one of those sunshine and puppy dog people where everyone needs to get along, but some people go on here go out of their way to be mean and to put others down (I know, such is life).

The negativity just got to me today I guess...

Dec 06 12 09:08 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kat Squibb
Posts: 131
Fayetteville, North Carolina, US


DougBPhoto wrote:

Garbage in -- garbage out...

In other words ---

A) Quality of questions - if people's threads and/or replies that are a rehash of crap, that tends to lower people's patience and leads to an increased likelihood of a snarky response.

B) Quality of users - The composition/makeup of MM is constantly changing, and many feel that some of the more serious/professional users are leaving the site while/due-to the growing population of MySpace grade wannabee's.  That also causes things to change a lot, primarily frustration, less patience, and "A" above.

C) Society - Our overall population and the manifestation of the collective personality changes over time, currently people are still, on-whole, frustrated, stressed, unhappy, and overall there appears to be a growing sense of selfishness at large.  Clearly that would spill over into online communities too.

D) Technology - People appear to become more and more detached via technology and forget that they are actually dealing with people, not avatars or video games, but real people.  At large, it is easy to forget that YES, there is a person to whom you're writing, and treat them the same as you would face-to-face rather than just saying what you're thinking.

E) Tolerance - Our society at large appears to be becoming less tolerant of "others", increased blame and polarization results in more snark.

F) Finally - Fucking "Search" before you post.  For fuck sake people, Google your damn questions before asking them, run an MM AND Sendu search to see if it is already asked and answered.  Don't waste people's time with asking the same things that have been previously discussed.  Search first, THEN ask.

G)  Gah, I forgot one.  Increased competition... digital is resulting in a flood of people who think they are photographers, and more and more consumers are having a difficult time accessing quality.  When the pie seems like it is shrinking or there are more people trying to get pieces of the same pie, folks are not going to be as courteous towards those who are literally trying to take a slice out of their pie, or the whole pie.

It is one thing to compete fairly for clients/business, and totally another when people think they are somehow entitled to your knowledge/experience AND they want to know what you know TO take business away from you.

Yes, we are in the same industry, people share information out of friendship NOT obligation.

There is no entitlement that people should share their knowledge and experience.

Many people have worked VERY hard to know what they know, and there is no grand duty to share that information with others, if/when that happens, it is a courtesy.

This is business, every man (or woman) for themselves.  There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Edit: Blue Cube moved this out of Photography Talk while I was posting, some of my comments were more specific to that forum, as opposed the site at large.

very well thought out and concise response. thank you smile

Dec 06 12 09:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kev Lawson
Posts: 7,038
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Drew Smith Photography wrote:
The MM Forums always give me a nice warmth fuzzy feeling inside. smile

Thats just gas Drew! tongue

(OP - once in a while it puts a smile on peoples faces when you can joke or kid... everything in life need not be purely serious)

DougBPhoto wrote:
snip -

F) Finally - Fucking "Search" before you post.  For fuck sake people, Google your damn questions before asking them, run an MM AND Sendu search to see if it is already asked and answered.  Don't waste people's time with asking the same things that have been previously discussed.  Search first, THEN ask.

- snip

This probably annoys me the most - especially if the question they are asking is 2 or 3 threads away!

Dec 06 12 09:15 am  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Two Pears Studio
Posts: 3,318
Wilmington, Delaware, US


my experience has been just the opposite. People have been super genuine and helpful. Some of the conversations have been funny and silly, but often they are very thoughtful.

I have found that when I have put out bullshit, people call me on it or respond with bullshit.
Dec 06 12 09:48 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Alivia Autumn
Posts: 610
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


The same reason people are snots in all forums.  They get endorphines and pass time being asshats online and get gratification from upsetting others.
Dec 06 12 11:49 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Koryn
Posts: 36,117
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Even as a newbie, I found the forums informative, and the people supportive.

You have to LEARN how to talk to people online. It's not like communicating in person, or on the phone. You can't hear inflections in speech, or see sarcasm in someone's facial expression. You can't make generalizations, and you have to understand that the online world is so immensely culturally and sexually diverse, that if you say something even mildly offensive, there's a pretty good chance you're insulting the lifestyle of someone reading your post.
Dec 06 12 12:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MN camera
Posts: 1,860
Saint Paul, Minnesota, US


Because they can.  The stakes are incredibly low and there are far too many people in the world (as in: not only here) who believe their own shite doesn't stink.
Dec 06 12 12:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
- Aina -
Posts: 734
Redlands, California, US


Kaouthia wrote:

Kathleen Larsen wrote:
Most people are so catty

We're effing not!

Kathleen Larsen wrote:
and have snotty remarks to most posts.

We effing don't!


I think most do.  But I think most also have little tolerance for idiots (which is different from inexperienced).  There's far too many on sites like this and similar sites who seem to make posts intentionally to cause these kinds of reactions (because they know it's going to happen).

And then there's those that post and ask questions, and then dispute every single answer they receive, because it didn't back up some ridiculous theory or purchasing decision that they were sure was right and "best".

So, some deserve everything they get.

Hahahahaha, I love it...

Dec 06 12 12:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
- Aina -
Posts: 734
Redlands, California, US


ShivaKitty wrote:
Even as a newbie, I found the forums informative, and the people supportive.

You have to LEARN how to talk to people online. It's not like communicating in person, or on the phone. You can't hear inflections in speech, or see sarcasm in someone's facial expression. You can't make generalizations, and you have to understand that the online world is so immensely culturally and sexually diverse, that if you say something even mildly offensive, there's a pretty good chance you're insulting the lifestyle of someone reading your post.

True, true. smile

Dec 06 12 12:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
modeled
Posts: 9,334
San Diego, California, US


Just don't start a thread comparing MMA to dog fighting.  lol
Dec 06 12 04:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Lauren Reynolds Makeup
Posts: 282
London, England, United Kingdom


Come join us in the HMS forum, we're a friendly bunch (mostly, haha)!
Dec 06 12 04:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPierce Photography
Posts: 19,603
Amherst, Massachusetts, US


Meow :3 big_smile

Seriously, all forums are this way. You either take offense, or let it roll off your back. If you don't like it, ignore it. Continue on- it's not like what happens on these forums mean anything in the real world/real life!

I have found some friends- and some connections through the forums, which I would have never made otherwise- and would have missed out on some awesome photos along the way. I also watch carefully what I say, though, and don't ask any stupid/obvious questions.

yes, there are plenty of times when i've read a post and thought "the hell is wrong with THEM? Are they THAT paranoid?" and responded as such. If someone wants to throw it back to me, they're more than welcome to do so.

it all also depends on what you're (you're in general) asking- and how you're asking it. Also, forum posting history can make or break a thread- and will dictate how people respond to a persons thread. If you expect people to give you a good shooting location, no go... go out, do the driving/foot time, and find a locale that works best for you! A lot of answers can be found through google.
Dec 06 12 04:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andy Durazo
Posts: 24,420
Los Angeles, California, US


Dec 06 12 04:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Toto Photo
Posts: 2,511
Belmont, California, US


I recently posted a similar question, asking, "Why...?", the answer that felt closest to the truth to me was...hurt people hurt others.
Dec 06 12 04:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
modeled
Posts: 9,334
San Diego, California, US


^that!
Dec 06 12 06:22 pm  Link  Quote 
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