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How long is too long to wait for images?
There's a wonderful photog who does workshops, and is nationally renowned for his wedding photography and use of light. When he was in my area doing a *very expensive* photog workshop, I jumped at the chance to participate and model for the group. I literally lied and left work early saying I was ill. LOL. At the start of it was rushed, having ditched work then threw my entire loset into my car, and thus the model release was forgtotten about and sent and signed a few days later. My bad and his bad. I'm a newb. He's a pro. This was all TF, by the way. Here's the issue/question: come to look at the contract once I had the chance to review it and sign, it stated that he has 180 days to provide the images. 180 DAYS! That's insane, right? Of course I signed it because I was post facto and I pretty much felt I had no choice. Another local model worked with him the previous day. We are both bothered by this exceptionally long wait time. I contacted a few other models who had posted inquiries of their images on his FB page to see how long it took to obtain their images. Yep, he pushes it RIGHT TO the 180 day mark. A model he shot with in May JUST got her images 2 weeks ago. So I ask, before I approach him via email regarding my feelings on this wait; is this an extreme? What is your take on this? Any input - toward my take or defending him, I really don't care - is appreciated. I just want to learn from this and others' experiences. Thanks. Dec 13 12 06:17 pm Link Rachel Elizabeth B wrote: Whether 180 days is insane or not, really doesn't matter. You signed and agreed to it. Dec 13 12 06:23 pm Link I gotta ask....you've been on MM 4 yrs. and you're a newb? Why is he bad? Dec 13 12 06:27 pm Link (and is nationally renowned for his wedding photography) ????, you think maybe TFP's are on the "back-burners" in things to take priority ?, why not send a nice email and inquire.......nicely ! Dec 13 12 06:30 pm Link It's possible that he just prioritizes paid work and he's busy. But, you did sign the release with that time frame indicated. Dec 13 12 06:31 pm Link PDF IMAGES PHOTOGRAPHY wrote: I was going to say wedding photographers do this, especially if during the season, or if just generally a busy wedding photographer. Brides who have already paid for their photos usually post about this on other sites. So I can imagine TF probably will not be the priority. Dec 13 12 06:35 pm Link Small Fruit Pits wrote: Dec 13 12 06:39 pm Link Got in 4 years ago, had fun, got busy and got out. Just got back into modeling again 4 moths ago. Dec 13 12 06:40 pm Link PDF IMAGES PHOTOGRAPHY wrote: Bingo, that's pretty much how I take it. These photos aren't his bread and butter. It's not at the top of his list. Dec 13 12 06:41 pm Link Rachel Elizabeth B wrote: Given that you agreed to the terms, even post facto, and you know from others’ experiences what to expect regarding your images, what do you hope to gain by emailing him, as opposed to what you potentially stand to lose? Dec 13 12 06:42 pm Link 180 is what he is held to. I do the same thing. Under promise and over deliver. Tell them it takes 6 months...then give the images in 2 months. Remember a contract is what he is bound to - doesn't mean he won't come through early. Lesson learned - always read the contract. Dec 13 12 06:43 pm Link Viator-Defessus Photos wrote: Yeah. I'm pretty much taking this as a lesson learned. Don't even get in front of the camera no matter HOW excited I am that it's a famous photog, until I have READ the release and have agreed to the terms, etc. Painful lesson. Dec 13 12 06:43 pm Link AgX wrote: True. I don't want to burn a bridge and I definitely don't want to pretend like I'm not at fault as well. I guess pestering him won't exactly get me the images any faster. A contract is a contract and a lesson learned is exactly that. Dec 13 12 06:46 pm Link Bravoscape wrote: Fingers crossed, but not holding my breath. Yes - next time no photos before I see and read the contract. And sign if I agree. Then shoot away! Dec 13 12 06:47 pm Link So basically you're wanting to renegotiate after the fact? You could approach him and say that you know what you agreed to, but because of [insert compelling reason] you were wondering if you could get something sooner. Be nice and don't be demanding. Dec 13 12 06:52 pm Link Rachel Elizabeth B wrote: It is unfortunate - and to be honest 180 days (even as a maximum) is a little ridiculous. For a photographer who is shooting regularly, they really need a better turnaround than that. I guess the question to ask would have been what is his 'typical' turnaround. Dec 13 12 07:03 pm Link Seeing as he's a renowned photographer and you jumped at the chance to work with hi, he's probably super busy and has tons of people also jumping for chances. I agree that 180 days is a long wait, definitely longer than most hobbyists, but hey, he's not a hobbyist. He stated in the contract that's how long he needs to deliver images, and you agreed. Since it seems like you're not the only one wanting images before the promised date, I can only assume he has an enormous backlog, and it actually takes him that long to get to them. Obviously his paying work is going to take priority over you. You can ask for them sooner, but realize you'll be asking for special attention, and all the other models whom he shot before you will have to wait even longer now. Maybe that's just the price you have to pay for getting to work with him. I know it's hard to wait sometimes, but just accept it, and be patient. Really, what difference does a few months make? It's not like it's stopping you from doing anything. Dec 13 12 07:09 pm Link Blue Ash Film Group wrote: Well put. Pretty much, yes. He and I are BOTH aware of the fact that I was not aware of the terms until 2 days after we shot. Bad on both our parts. Regardless, I feel that approaching him gently and inquiring about maybe even just a sneak peek of a few, but not all of the images agreed upon, isn't asking too much. Dec 13 12 07:14 pm Link Tegan Lynn MUA wrote: Very true. This is what has kept me from contacting him and getting upset. I'm certain he's busy, he's literally all over the freakin' globe! And when I see his FB updates of him having down time I get ticked, but then remember he's human and is entitled to R&R, esp with a globe-trotting schedule like his. So I've been biting my tongue, but couldn't help but throw this question out there of how extreme is 180 days in waiting?? So again I find myself waiting, with that same though: what difference is a few months? My look will not change enough in that time to make any difference. Dec 13 12 07:19 pm Link 181 days. Dec 13 12 07:21 pm Link model emily wrote: LOL. And I drop dead having held my breath for 180. Hahaaha. Dec 13 12 07:23 pm Link More than 30 days and I'd be sending Vito and Da Boyz around to break his fingers! Dec 13 12 07:27 pm Link Rachel Elizabeth B wrote: Next time you will be sure to look and review the whole thing before you sign it. Dec 13 12 07:27 pm Link Rachel Elizabeth B wrote: In all honesty, a wait like that would irritate the hell out of me, all I would think about it when I would finally get my images... but that's just me. Dec 14 12 12:24 am Link 180 days is unreasonable, but it is what you have agreed to, so you are stuck with it. No doubt, you will not be caught out like this a second time. Dec 14 12 06:17 am Link I'd say about a week after the time the photographer agreed to deliver them to you. What's that, he never gave you a time frame for image delivery. Guess you should've asked for that to be in your work agreement/model release? If you say, there was no work agreement/model release, I'll just say shame on you (-; All aspects of the shoot should be agreed to and put in writing for both parties PRIOR to the beginning of the shoot. Really, this is a no brainer. Clarification = minimal misunderstandings and frustrations. Dec 14 12 10:41 am Link 180 days is 6 months. If a photographer is doing tons of shoots, that's not an unreasonalbe time if his post production process is of high quality. With many shoots in the post production queue, natrually payin gigs will always take prececence, TF shoots being pushed to the back of the queue. I'd say chill out and next time read the model release before you sign it. Dec 14 12 10:48 am Link Bravoscape wrote: That's the way of doing it. Personally what bothers me is when a photographer tells you it will be "X amount of time" and then NOTHING. Especially if it's listed in the release. Just overestimate so I'm not expecting something constantly checking my messages. Dec 14 12 12:17 pm Link He said up front that he wanted 180 days. By signing, you agreed to 180 days. You should wait up to 180 days. Worse, because crap happens, give him a grace period of an additional ~20%, so maybe you should wait ~210 days. If you think that's too long, discuss it with the guy before you sign. Once you sign, honor your promises. Dec 14 12 12:31 pm Link Viator-Defessus Photos wrote: Paid work or not the photo work should be done in order with the frist llamas he worked. Dec 14 12 02:19 pm Link Colorado Model Amber wrote: I'm just saying that's what he might be doing; didn't say it's what I do, but sometimes you do what gets the bills paid. Dec 14 12 02:59 pm Link Rachel Elizabeth B wrote: Question should be "are they worth the wait?",if yes, go and do some shoots with hobbyists who don't have the long turn arounds, 6 months will fly buy. Dec 14 12 05:47 pm Link Viator-Defessus Photos wrote: "Sometimes"? In think with most working pros, it's "always". Dec 14 12 05:50 pm Link Rachel Elizabeth B wrote: 180 days is way too long. Within a month or two is reasonable. It's obvious he's giving his TF shoots the lowest priority, whether or not he's fully booked all the time, nothing really excuses taking a half of a year, I mean why bother taking TFs at all? Dec 14 12 08:15 pm Link Too long depends on the photographer, and what you have agreed is an appropriate time to wait. If there is a contract or signed release, too long would be after the time stated there, so in this case 181 days would be too long. Until then, it is longer than many other turn over rates, but cannot rightly be categorized as "too long." Every photographer has different turn over speeds, and many have other images from tons of other shoots that they need to send out. Especially if this guy is as big of a name as you imply. Not only is this TF, but he probably spends a while editing the chosen photos, even when he does get to them. Even if he doesn't, can you imagine how many shoots he has that are on deadlines in all of the places he travels to? Probably quite a bit. Give him some time, don't be overly impatient - especially right now before the holidays/solstice. If next month you are still itching to see the photos, maybe just send him a message seeing how work is going, and if he has had a chance to look at your photos. You don't want to come across as rude, too eager, or unprofessional, and this was an unpaid shoot either way, so just let him go at his own pace. Dec 14 12 08:28 pm Link It can be very frustrating to wait long time for images. I have a similar situation. I have done some TF shoots for a local photography association. The shoots were in great locations or themed with wonderful wardrobe and decor. The models were promised high resolution of the pictures both watermarked and unwatermarked. The organizer of the group shoots holds the photographers accountable for getting him the images. If someone goes 2 shoots without getting the images then that photographer can't come back. The thing is that I am still waiting for images from a shoot that was done in early July! Every month or so I follow-up and ask about the images and get various reasons and delays. I know it is a tremendous amount of work for the organizer to get all of the photos from the photographers and get them to the models. He said he has over 20,000 images to go through. I can understand that this is really overwhelming. But this should have been anticipated and thought of when the promise was made to the models. Two shoots are done every weekend, so things just get further behind. Now the process has changed (which is understandable), but the models are still owed the promised pictures from the previous shoots. There are some low resolution pictures on-line at the association website, but this is a very small percentage of the pictures taken. There are 10-15 photographers, shooting 6-8 models for 6 hours and for the shoots I have been on an average of 130-150 pics of all the models are posted. I estimate that this is just 2-5% of the images taken. These shoots are well done and give both photographers and models wonderful opportunities to get images that they may not be able to get otherwise. I hope to do other shoots, but I still think the models should receive the promised pictures. These shoots take all day and often involve driving long distances so it isn't right to only get 5 or 6 low res images and not the promised ones. To me the photography association is supposed to set the standard of how photographers do business. So by not getting the models the promised pictures is pretty much saying that is it okay not to follow through with the images of a TF shoot. Sorry for the long rant. I just really want the promised images and I have been patiently waiting for months. I am professional and always follow through on my commitments and I expect the same in return. Dec 14 12 10:59 pm Link Not everyone works has the same work flow & the issue of turnaround time really should have been discussed prior to shooting. I've turned stuff around anywhere from 24-hours to 24 weeks. I typically tell people to give me 30-days before they start bugging me about them presuming I haven't given them a headsup prior to that in it being longer. Dec 14 12 11:06 pm Link I think you're probably going to wait for as long as it takes him to get around to them within the 180 days. When models come on here asking this question many people say 'what does your contract say?' So, there you go.  Dec 15 12 01:45 am Link Rachel Elizabeth B wrote: 180 Days if you both agreed to it... Dec 15 12 02:00 am Link Rachel Elizabeth B wrote: Not even close ... how is it bad on both your parts? You did something without reading the contract and then signed a contract after the fact and now want something extra because you signed something without reading ... tell me would it be ok if it too him a full year instead of 180 days? Dec 15 12 02:14 am Link |
