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Photographer
Julian W I L D E
Posts: 1,799
Los Angeles, California, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:

I'm confused who is supposed to be the client in this scenario? The model? The photographer? The MUA?

I think the answer is, and why the issues, is that there was no client. It was a group of collaborators.

The OP is upset because she doesn't get what she needs out of TF* shoots (not just in one instance...but on a repeated basis).

If I'm being paid, I shoot what the client wants. If I'm planning a TF* shoot I shoot what I envisioned and coordinate the pieces to fit that. I'm not a greedy, heartless bastard but I'm not shooting for the MUA, though I certainly hope others involved can benefit from the shots.

But I'm not planning a shoot as a democratic process where we all vote on the types of images that I should be taking. I don't see a problem with suggesting some headshots, but the idea that "OK, now it's my turn...take shots for me!" isn't happening.

If someone wants that type of undivided and focused content, they're going to pay. Which, it seems the OP now understands.

Yep!  big_smile

Feb 11 13 11:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 5,261
San Diego, California, US


Jen, what you want to do is test with photographers that specifically shoot beauty. Find those guys (or girls) and see if they are open to testing.
Feb 11 13 11:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
MakeUp By CC
Posts: 303
Stockholm, Stockholm, Sweden


I think this happens to everybody at some point...

Talk everything through before (expectations and such) and while the shoot is going on don't be afraid to speak up

if everything fails then you know who to not work TF with again wink it is after all supposed to be something in it for everybody involved..
Feb 12 13 10:25 am  Link  Quote 
Body Painter
Lisa Berczel
Posts: 3,961
Corona, California, US


Not getting images from a TFP is a rite of passage....

However, if this is happening on a regular basis then it's time for some inward reflection.
Feb 12 13 11:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Toto Photo
Posts: 2,423
Belmont, California, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I'm confused who is supposed to be the client in this scenario? The model? The photographer? The MUA?

I think the answer is, and why the issues, is that there was no client. It was a group of collaborators.

The OP is upset because she doesn't get what she needs out of TF* shoots (not just in one instance...but on a repeated basis).

If I'm being paid, I shoot what the client wants. If I'm planning a TF* shoot I shoot what I envisioned and coordinate the pieces to fit that. I'm not a greedy, heartless bastard but I'm not shooting for the MUA, though I certainly hope others involved can benefit from the shots.

But I'm not planning a shoot as a democratic process where we all vote on the types of images that I should be taking. I don't see a problem with suggesting some headshots, but the idea that "OK, now it's my turn...take shots for me!" isn't happening.

If someone wants that type of undivided and focused content, they're going to pay. Which, it seems the OP now understands.

You're correct, my post would have been clearer if I'd have said "as one of a group of collaborators" instead of "client". But,  unlike you, I'm happy for my collaborators to reap their requested rewards on the project too and am happy for them to bring it up during the shoot, if it isn't happening. I'm especially pleased if I can get an MUA as TF.

MUAs at TF has always been most difficult for me to procure out of all professions involved, so I work in whatever they want within reason, in hopes they might TF again and again. Some do, some don't.

Feb 12 13 11:56 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlueMoonPics
Posts: 3,966
New York, New York, US


I hired an MUA for a lifestyle stock shoot.  The lighting was not set up for beauty but the MUA wanted some headshots.  During a break in the shoot.  I shot a bunch of close up headshots for her portfolio.  She is happy.

Just ask the photographer before and during the shoot to please do a few close up head shots for you.  Maybe you just need to remind them so they don't forget.  I don't think they would say no.
Feb 12 13 12:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Ms BSK
Posts: 886
Brooklyn, New York, US


This isn't unusual and as Lisa said it is a right of passage. You can set up your own shoot (paid or unpaid) to get what you need for your book. There are a lot of photographers that shoot beauty. Are you doing your research when contacting a photographer about beauty shoots? You are initiating contact with good people in your area, right? If a photographer doesn't have the type of work that you would like to see in your book don't test with them. Don't take this the wrong way but if you don't get what you want from a shoot then you are the one who has to own it. Everyone...I mean everyone has gotten burned on a shoot but then you chalk it up to a lesson learned. There is someone to add to your file not to work with and you move on to something else. Communicate what you need with the next photographer. Set up mood boards, talk about concepts, show them visually what you want/need for your book. Let them show you the same. You do get to a point that you have photographers that you trust and if you don't end up with one close up image it can be work that you love and are proud of. A good well rounded book has a mix of both types of shoots.

ETA: There are some photographers that I will shoot beauty with and some are strictly fashion. Just like we have a sweet spot about work we like to do so do photographers. Have a nice team of people that you shoot with and it will make things less frustrating for you and them.
Feb 12 13 01:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Jocelyn Marie Morris
Posts: 52
Chicago, Illinois, US


I think this has happened to all of us at one time or another. Some photographers are just rude and don't care as long as they get what they wanted. Good luck. I agree that sticking with photographers who have the types of shots that you want in their port is a good way to go
Feb 12 13 03:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


Sourcelight Photography wrote:
Don't guess I understand your understanding of what a "Trade For" shoot means.  You contribute, the model contributes, the MUA contributes... and yet you seem to think the MUA's expectations of a couple of close-ups taken specifically to illustrate his/her work in a manner that might actually be useful for the portfolio are unreasonable.

Seems unreasonable.  Usually takes me about 1 minute to grab a close-up for the MUA.

Because you're using the term "TF*" to dictate the terms and content of the shoot. TF* has nothing to do with content and there isn't some inherent guideline that "all parties are entering into a collaboration where all parties have equal say in the content."

TF is simply a form of compensation. The only assumed meaning of TF* is that the compensation will be with images provided.

If the MUA wants certain shots, that's certainly a reasonable request, and would be worked out prior to the shoot...just as it would be with the model or any client.  I never claimed the request was unreasonable. Just the expectation of what a TF* constitutes as far as content.

The problem is that people (often the MUA) assume that because it's a TF* shoot it's some free-for-all where everyone gets what they want because "it's my shoot too!" That's simply not the case.

There is no expectation that the OP is going to get the shots she wants just because it's a TF* shoot. The only time that assumption can be made is when the MUA becomes the client and pays the photographer, like a designer would for a look book. If you're the paying client you can dictate the terms.

Feb 12 13 03:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
allison mindy
Posts: 1,495
New York, New York, US


What did you agree on BEFORE the shoot? You can't be pissed off at someone for not doing something that you guys never talked about.
Feb 12 13 03:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sourcelight Photography
Posts: 245
BOISE, Idaho, US


Star wrote:

and that is the difference between shooting professionally and shooting as a hobby. A professional photographer is shooting with a large team trying to get the best image possible, period. If it is beauty it is beauty, if it is fashion it is fashion, lifestyle, you get it.

Sometimes there is time to take a well crafted headshot, sometimes there isn't. Taking a close-up of the face isn't necessarily going to work if the lighting and concept are not good for beauty shots.

That said, when setting up a test everyone knows what i am planning to shoot and they get on board if they are interested

With all due respect, I don't think this has anything to do with defining the difference between professional and hobbyist photography.  I've been shooting for pay for 30 years, and I fully understand what's involved in a formal test shoot, but I wasn't discussing "testing"; I was talking about "trade" shoots.  If a MUA donates his/her time on a shoot where nobody's getting paid, I'm going to make the effort to get at least a couple of shots that illustrate his/her contribution(s).  As you say, a CU taken in lighting that wasn't designed for a CU might not be a perfect representation, but I'll leave that consideration to the MUA.  I'm not talking about staging a full shoot for the MUA that takes up equal time to the concept we're all meeting for; I'm talking about simply moving in close so that the make-up can actually be seen.

Now if you want to assert (though I won't believe it) that PROFESSIONAL photographers NEVER shoot anything for trade, we might have some room for discussion.  If you never do trades, good for you.  Occasionally I do them, and I'm not likely to be persuaded by a snide dig at my professionalism that taking an extra two minutes to snap a shot for the MUA's portfolio is inappropriate (and certainly not impossible) on a TRADE session.

Feb 14 13 03:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sourcelight Photography
Posts: 245
BOISE, Idaho, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:
Because you're using the term "TF*" to dictate the terms and content of the shoot. TF* has nothing to do with content and there isn't some inherent guideline that "all parties are entering into a collaboration where all parties have equal say in the content."

Not what I meant, nor what I think the OP WOULD have meant had she stated her case a bit less histrionically.  Underneath the rant, I took the OP's concern to be that, in a TRADE collaboration where she's contributing her time and skills in exchange for some sort of non-monetary compensation, that she simply would like that compensation to include at least one shot that features the make-up large enough to show HER contribution.  I don't think that necessarily translates to having "equal say in the content."

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
TF is simply a form of compensation. The only assumed meaning of TF* is that the compensation will be with images provided.

Mmm, maybe.  I don't necessarily agree that the "only assumed meaning of TF* is that the compensation will be with images provided."  Look around this site's archives as well as at a few of the more professional models' portfolio comments for a variety of interesting discussions suggesting that there are lots of things besides images that can be traded in a TF collaboration.  Moreover, there's a lot of squishiness inherent in the "images provided" definition.  Clearly, the OP feels that her definition differs from that of the photographers she's worked with in these circumstances.  Rather than suggesting that the OP simply doesn't understand some universal definition that you're comfortable with, I'd suggest better communication by all parties to arrive at a definition they CAN agree on.

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
If the MUA wants certain shots, that's certainly a reasonable request, and would be worked out prior to the shoot...just as it would be with the model or any client.  I never claimed the request was unreasonable. Just the expectation of what a TF* constitutes as far as content.

The problem is that people (often the MUA) assume that because it's a TF* shoot it's some free-for-all where everyone gets what they want because "it's my shoot too!" That's simply not the case.

I don't disagree with the second paragraph, IF that's what the MUA is assuming, but it has never been my experience that "people ... assume that because it's a TF* shoot it's some free-for-all where everyone gets what they want."  Again, I'm not talking about (nor has any TF MUA ever approached me about) staging a separate shoot for the MUA; they'd just like a functional CU that actually shows the MUA's work.

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
There is no expectation that the OP is going to get the shots she wants just because it's a TF* shoot.

Again, I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation, with the caveat that in this case you're very broadly defining the "shots she wants" as "some free-for-all where everyone gets what they want."  I hardly see grabbing a CU or two under the existing lighting as a free-for-all, and in any event, as you less dictatorially point out before this paragraph, "If the MUA wants certain shots, that's certainly a reasonable request, and would be worked out prior to the shoot."  I agree, which is why I don't usually have riots on my shoots.

Thanks for the exchange.

Feb 14 13 04:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Mary wrote:
If you are working with an awesome team, you don't need "head shots"  It's not the makeup you really need to show...it's the team work and quality of photo that will impress people looking at your book. You need to show that quality people work with you....

+1

For me, a MUA who asks for "headshots" or "face shots" of her makeup will probably not be a MUA I use. I need people who are committed to the entirety of the project, not just getting a few pretty pictures of their own specific bit of work.




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Feb 14 13 05:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LittleWhiteRabbit Photo
Posts: 134
Columbus, Ohio, US


Camerosity wrote:
The fact is, there's an endless supply of models on MM (some of whom will drive hundreds of miles for a trade shoot) - but not of MUA's. Anyone who likes to involve MUA's in their trade shoots would do well to keep them happy.

My thoughts as well...if you are lucky enough to get a good MUA/H person for trade, it's worth your while to keep them happy and be considerate.  I saw an online class by fashion photographer Matthew Jordan Smith and he often found members for his paid teams this way.

He did mention that for a model test for an agency, the agency wanted fairly simple clean makeup and straighforward shots.  So he would take those shots first and then if the MUA/H and styling team wanted to go crazy and get artistic then they would do this afterwards as these shots were more useful for their own portfolios than the agency.

Feb 14 13 07:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LittleWhiteRabbit Photo
Posts: 134
Columbus, Ohio, US


BlueMoonPics wrote:
I hired an MUA for a lifestyle stock shoot.  The lighting was not set up for beauty but the MUA wanted some headshots.  During a break in the shoot.  I shot a bunch of close up headshots for her portfolio.  She is happy.

Just ask the photographer before and during the shoot to please do a few close up head shots for you.  Maybe you just need to remind them so they don't forget.  I don't think they would say no.

Here's a question though - most 'beauty' shots require fairly refined retouching. I assume if this is for a trade then standard retouching should suffice and the MUA could have it professionally retouched if he or she wanted it to be 'magazine' quality.

Feb 14 13 07:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
De Creati Makeup Artist
Posts: 1
Bandung, Jawa Barat, Indonesia


i been experiencing exactly the same thing. and it only becomes worse if the photographers dont even let me have the shots they'd done with what i did on the models. and this is pretty frustrating cus it only become a waste of money without a clear result of what we've done. indeed, most photographers only do tfp for their advantage only. and the only thing i could say after the shots done being retouched is "lol?". :'( btw i posted your complaint on my fb to let my photographer friends read it (i added your MM name under it, too bad i dont have your fb) i hope you dont mind
Feb 14 13 10:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mask Photo
Posts: 1,382
Fremont, California, US


Toto Photo wrote:
I doubt that any photographer would deliberately avoid shooting what a client wants.

Thanks for phrasing it this way. Too many photogs neglect to remember that on a TFP shoot, the entire crew is the client. The model needs pics they can use. The MUAH needs pics they can use. Even the grip/VAL needs something they can stick on their facebook page later.

Feb 15 13 01:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
studio kgm inc
Posts: 727
Nashville, Tennessee, US


What generally works best is to find people that you feel comfortable working with and work with them a lot.  That way, you can just ask mid shot if they got any tight shots of the makeup.

This works for any role.  I had a stylist that wanted every shot full length to show off shoes.  Because these were shot in studio, I thought the fulls looked dull, so I never would have shot them if he hadn't regularly asked me if I got some shots with the shoes for him.

If the photographer has a problem with you asking them or just wont do it, find another photographer.  There's no shortage of them these days.
Feb 15 13 01:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ruben Sanchez
Posts: 3,416
San Antonio, Texas, US


You know, cameras are now so good, that you can do your own photography.  Now, just put any latest camera in Auto mode, and point and shoot.  It's the only way you can get the headshots you need.

Good luck.
Feb 15 13 02:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JohnEnger
Posts: 723
Jessheim, Akershus, Norway


It's always a good thing to have a contract. If you haven't got one you may end up in situations like this. Learn from it and move on. Being whiney about it will get you nowhere.

J.
Feb 15 13 02:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 5,059
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:

+1

For me, a MUA who asks for "headshots" or "face shots" of her makeup will probably not be a MUA I use. I need people who are committed to the entirety of the project, not just getting a few pretty pictures of their own specific bit of work.




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Then I'm guessing that you wouldn't have responded to the MUA's casting call, for a shoot that she organized for the specific purpose of getting headshots.

Right, Stefano?

Feb 15 13 02:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Camerosity wrote:
Then I'm guessing that you wouldn't have responded to the MUA's casting call, for a shoot that she organized for the specific purpose of getting headshots.

Right, Stefano?

Indeed not.

I'm certainly not suggesting the OP's "photographer" was in the right by not shooting any headshots if that's what the shoot was supposed to be about.

I was simply responding to the general point about MUAs who ask for headshots.




Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Feb 15 13 04:05 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Adele Koker
Posts: 58
Seoul, Seoul, Korea (South)


Revprint wrote:
I have a brilliant idea! I know it may seem incredible but you can hire a professional photographer and they will shoot exactly what you want.

Your make up work is wonderful and very detailed. Just imagine how wonderful and professional you will look to your customers and how impressed they will be with the images.

Grow up, hire a photographer to capture your wonderful work, DONT BE CHEAP! IT SHOWS!

Feb 18 13 02:39 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Adele Koker
Posts: 58
Seoul, Seoul, Korea (South)


Revprint wrote:
I have a brilliant idea! I know it may seem incredible but you can hire a professional photographer and they will shoot exactly what you want.

Your make up work is wonderful and very detailed. Just imagine how wonderful and professional you will look to your customers and how impressed they will be with the images.

Grow up, hire a photographer to capture your wonderful work, DONT BE CHEAP! IT SHOWS!

I totally agree. I am not an MAU but i can say that i get this problem too. I used to only to tfcd, but the pics NEVER came out the way I wanted it. I would have my pose perfect and bam, the tog is adjusting something. I recently started paying professional guys for work and i get tons more people interested in working with me over night. I get the shots I want on my port.  Paying professionals pays off.

Feb 18 13 02:42 am  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
LC Makeup and Styling
Posts: 90
Perth, Western Australia, Australia


Sorry this happened to you and you have every right to be annoyed.  It happened to me a few times, but since then Ive found a handful of Togs that I do tfp with and they ALWAYS include headshots for me.  Find the right people to work with. For me, I will do tfp if its beneficial to ALL parties involved and everyone gets what they need for their ports.
Feb 20 13 12:29 am  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
ShannonJennings MUA
Posts: 118
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia


Just happened to me for the first time & unfortunately it's on a shoot I travelled very far for, spent money on parking in the city, new products, spent about 6 hours on location. (probably $180 down for the day)

Shots just came back this morning not one headshot & completely useless for my port. Lots of bokkeh & that sort of nonsense going on. It was for hair only (took it on as a bit of a personal challenge) & you literally can't even see the hair in most shots. Photog won't provide crops or unedited piccies, pretty much just told me I get what I've been given. Gotta choc this one up to experience as I wasn't clear about what I needed before the shoot.
Feb 20 13 03:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
WMcK
Posts: 5,241
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom


Pinch of Pretty MUA wrote:
I am a MUA you know!!!! I am so sick of working with some photographers, especially if it is a TFP project and you give me NOTHING that will aid my portfolio. Out of the hundreds of photos that they take, why are their two headshots if any.

Did you never think to ask the photographer at the time? In future it might be an idea to ask to see the images on the camera's screen as the shoot progresses, and to ask for anything that is missing.

Feb 20 13 03:56 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jose Deida
Posts: 1,133
BLANDON, Pennsylvania, US


I make sure everyone gets what they need from a TF. Now, if the makeup is subpar, I'll ask not to be credited in the images. But they still get images and I won't have an mua sticking needles in a voodoo doll of me smile
Feb 20 13 05:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Rock Victorian
Posts: 142
Norfolk, Virginia, US


Yikes. It sucks. At least you are getting some shots. I'm still waiting for mine. I'm starting to think I may never see them.
Feb 25 13 03:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Cree Synster
Posts: 246
Milledgeville, Georgia, US


allison mindy wrote:
What did you agree on BEFORE the shoot? You can't be pissed off at someone for not doing something that you guys never talked about.

I agree with this 100%
If you don't specify exactly what you want either electronically (so you can print it out) or through hand written contracts/messages, there's no point to getting angry at someone for something you did not specify prior. It's like getting mad at your kid for putting the plates on right, rather than the left side when all you said was "please put the plates down on the table" =/

Head shots, while they are nice, shouldn't be something you solely rely on.

+1

For me, a MUA who asks for "headshots" or "face shots" of her makeup will probably not be a MUA I use. I need people who are committed to the entirety of the project, not just getting a few pretty pictures of their own specific bit of work.




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

This also +1

Feb 27 13 07:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PhotoByWayne
Posts: 1,191
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I had the opposite experience.  One time I shot with a mua and I specifically said I am doing head shots, she was upset that I didn't take any full body shots.
Feb 27 13 07:21 am  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
MA YE
Posts: 37
New York, New York, US


Star wrote:
great. Now you can save your money and put together a reasonable budget (around $1200 for model and photographer) and pay someone to help you create a commercially viable portfolio

Don't do that! If you can't find someone to shoot beauty it means yore not ready to shoot beauty yet. When your work is ready you'll find a beauty photog. These things need time to develop, take the fashion photos which aren't close up and use then in a fashion section of your book. Fashion sections are useful, you need more than just close ups as a mua. Look on jedroot.com and see how many of them don't even have beauty sections. Take it slow, there's no rush. And never listen to someone bitter who trolls online preying on innocent make up artists. It's disgusting really.

Feb 28 13 07:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
K E E L I N G
Posts: 39,773
Peoria, Illinois, US


Mary wrote:
If you are working with an awesome team, you don't need "head shots"  It's not the makeup you really need to show...it's the team work and quality of photo that will impress people looking at your book. You need to show that quality people work with you....

Artists need to remember....It's  not about the makeup. If you want to impress a potential client, just show them great images with clean makeup and a great team.  Thats my 2 cents...

+1

People want to do business where business is being done.  You won't get hired because someone saw "that" headshot in your portfolio, you'll get hired because they saw you worked on certain projects and with certain people and are a part of quality work.

That's not to say you don't need headshots, but they shouldn't be the bulk of your portfolio.  Also, you state that you want a bunch of headshots from a shoot... that's fine if that's what you want, but I go into shoots with the goal of getting one picture from it.  I've got no use for the extras, and honestly only do the multiple looks in search of that one picture... not to get 5 different looks.

Feb 28 13 07:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 23,982
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Pinch of Pretty MUA wrote:
Okay. Im very annoyed at this point. Please tell me if I am wrong, or if I could even use these type of shots for my port?

Why not ask the photographer or team to shoot a headshot for you? Most if not all of us would be more than happy to do that, just keep in mind if the idea or theme doesn't call specifically for a headshot then we may not have the state of mind to shoot one for you.

I'm also not saying this should be a new setup or anything for headshots, or that it should be very involved, but in a studio it's usually not a big deal to have someone stand in front of a light to make a quick and decent headshot.


Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Feb 28 13 08:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 23,982
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
+1

For me, a MUA who asks for "headshots" or "face shots" of her makeup will probably not be a MUA I use. I need people who are committed to the entirety of the project, not just getting a few pretty pictures of their own specific bit of work.




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

-1

These two images were just for the makeup artist, I didn't need to change the lighting, and they were done with a total of 4 shots. Retouching didn't take all that long, and the makeup artist and hair stylist were very happy.

http://andrewthomasevans.com/headshots/regular/minneapolis-headshot-photography-DSC_0024.jpg

http://andrewthomasevans.com/headshots/regular/minneapolis-headshot-photography-DSC_0032as.jpg





Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Feb 28 13 08:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leighthenubian
Posts: 2,749
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I usually shoot a headshot or two of each look I ask an MUA for even if "beauty" isn't the concept...just common courtesy and it takes two seconds. Personally I wouldn't leave that to chance though, ask if the person will do that for you prior to shooting.

Modern cameras have enough resolution to crop a 3/4 into a headshot now. Not a big deal.
Feb 28 13 09:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
IrisSwope
Posts: 14,803
Dallas, Texas, US


Sometimes people miss a planned shot. It's not out of line to ask during the shoot if he got headshots. If you need a specific shot, it's pretty important to mention it during the shoot as well as before hand.
Feb 28 13 12:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Star
Posts: 17,909
Los Angeles, California, US


Mask Photo wrote:

Thanks for phrasing it this way. Too many photogs neglect to remember that on a TFP shoot, the entire crew is the client. The model needs pics they can use. The MUAH needs pics they can use. Even the grip/VAL needs something they can stick on their facebook page later.

no, they are not. The crew are people who love my work and want it in their portfolio as payment for being a part of my work. They are not my clients. Clients pay me.

Feb 28 13 12:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Star
Posts: 17,909
Los Angeles, California, US


MA YE wrote:

Don't do that! If you can't find someone to shoot beauty it means yore not ready to shoot beauty yet. When your work is ready you'll find a beauty photog. These things need time to develop, take the fashion photos which aren't close up and use then in a fashion section of your book. Fashion sections are useful, you need more than just close ups as a mua. Look on jedroot.com and see how many of them don't even have beauty sections. Take it slow, there's no rush. And never listen to someone bitter who trolls online preying on innocent make up artists. It's disgusting really.

A god photographer can guide the process. Paying for a quality model with great skin, teeth and hair will be wonders for your portfolio. No matter how good the make-up, if it isn't on the right type of model is is worse than useless in your portfolio. If the photograph is poorly lit, then it is useless for your portfolio.

A lot of us do work for student make-up artists that help them get to place where they can do quality tests, and from there do paying work.

Most agencies will not approve someone to do make-up on their girls unless they already have agency girls in their portfolios.

Feb 28 13 12:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
curiosa des yeux
Posts: 1,457
Seattle, Washington, US


Mary wrote:
If you are working with an awesome team, you don't need "head shots"  It's not the makeup you really need to show...it's the team work and quality of photo that will impress people looking at your book. You need to show that quality people work with you....

Artists need to remember....It's  not about the makeup. If you want to impress a potential client, just show them great images with clean makeup and a great team.  Thats my 2 cents...

This is absolutely true. Most of the agency rep'd MUAs that I work with or have worked with do not have much in the way of "headshots" in their book. If anything, the bookers seem to shy away from including very much in that regard. They have tons of very high end clean looks and editorials, along with tearsheets. A person can tell if the makeup is good by the people the MUA works with. If the final product is high end, the implication is that everyone involved is capable of high end work.

Feb 28 13 01:13 pm  Link  Quote 
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