This thread was locked on 2013-02-17 13:54:12
Photographer
Kyle T Edwards
Posts: 437
St Catharines, Ontario, Canada
The only real defense is self-defense. You can stuff whatever you want into your purse or bra or wherever else you want to stuff it, but there's going to come a time where it's going to be further away from you than the photographer. Even if it isn't, if some creep does make a move, how fast can you get to your purse, open it, get the can of mace out, and spray him before he uses his weight and momentum to knock you to the ground? It's great to say "I carry a ____ with me all the time", but if you insist on hanging onto your mace or gun or knife, 99 times out of 100, that's going to ruin my shot (the other time, I'll bring my own prop weapon, thanks). If you're constantly ruining my shots like that, I'm walking away, and no, you're not getting paid. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'm just pointing out the reality of it - you won't always have your external defense on hand. If you want defense, you will have to rely solely on yourself. Kozmina wrote:
Yup. Made me think of the new show on the Bio channel.
http://www.biography.com/tv/model-kille … auty-queen
First episode tells about how "scarey" it is for a llama.
(Cliff notes-Model kills husband and eats him for dinner.Yeah,its the photogs that are oh so scarey) She must be crazy. Does she have any idea how much fat is in a husband??
Model
Kozmina
Posts: 6536
Bakersfield, California, US
Kyle T Edwards wrote:
She must be crazy. Does she have any idea how much fat is in a husband?? He was a pretty fat guy. 
Photographer
L o n d o n F o g
Posts: 7497
London, England, United Kingdom
RKD Photographic wrote:
Turn up to my studio with a gun or pepper-spray in your bag and I'm calling the police as both are prohibited here.
If you genuinely feel the need to carry a weapon to a shoot (and by this I mean for your safety in the studio, not merely travelling to and from the shoot) then you're in the wrong business or you need to move to a safer country - or both. +1
Some really fucked up ideas on here!
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom
Some of the posts on this thread are jaw dropping!
I may often loathe England for its vile weather and ridiculous politics but OH MY LORD am i glad i live in the UK now!
The photographers and llamas who are condoning carrying weapons is shocking. I'm not sure i would be comfortable visiting the US or a similiar country and not knowing who is packing and who isn't.
I am lucky enough to have never set eyes on a guy or any other weapon. The only knives i have are for cooking / eating. I would never consider taking one outside my front door.
So lets say you took a gun and you felt threatened, would you pull it on the tog? Further more, could you seriously pull the tigger?
The scenario playing in my head is a llama pulling a gun on a TOG, the TOG then pulling out his own piece when llama fails to back her her dumass move and low and behold, you both have guns out. Where do you go from there?
Get a grip! Like the world isn't a bad enough place without people carrying guns. This is how accidents happen, this is how people die!
If you seriously feel the need to carry a gun, knife or similiar. Get the heck out of this profession. This goes way beyond protection and into severe paranoia with serious consequences.
CHECK REFERENCES, GET ADDRESSES AND TELEPHONE NUMBER. LEAVE PLENTY OF DETAILS WITH FAMILY. UN-FREAKING-BELIEVABLE.
Photographer
Loki Studio
Posts: 3523
Royal Oak, Michigan, US
If you bring a weapon to my studio that is not a prop you will talk to the police. End of shoot.
Photographer
Dan OMell
Posts: 1415
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
Photographer
ArtisticGlamour
Posts: 3846
Phoenix, Arizona, US
The most important part of "Self Defense" is awareness, and not making yourself into a victim, in the first place.
Don't walk across the parking lot with your face buried in your cellphone texting. WAKE the f#@k up! Be AWARE of your surroundings!
Keep your situational awareness about you, and most likely predators will look for easier targets.
As far as photoshoots, do lots of pre-shoot communication and bring a "driver" to the shoot if that makes you more comfortable. And have a valid "PLAN" in case of emergency.
Photographer
ArtisticGlamour
Posts: 3846
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Leone P wrote:
So lets say you took a gun and you felt threatened, would you pull it on the tog? Further more, could you seriously pull the trigger? Exactly! Training, training, training! 
Don't carry a weapon (of any kind) unless you are trained and willing to use it in the correct life threatening circumstances. Your MIND is your MAIN weapon! Everything else is just a tool. Situational Awareness FIRST!
A pistol, pepper spray, or an Escort...are just "TOOLS" (that you USE).
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2513
Campobello, South Carolina, US
Leone P wrote:
I'm not sure i would be comfortable visiting the US or a similiar country and not knowing who is packing and who isn't. I'll help you out: I'm always packing. 
Of course, you'll never know until shit goes down.
Photographer
Gabby57
Posts: 470
Ponca City, Oklahoma, US
Still fairly new here, but this seems to be a recurring theme. While I think everyone has the right and responsibility to defend themselves as they see fit, I do have some questions.
Has any model on MM ever had to physically fight off a photographer here on MM? Ever?
Does the model intend to keep her (insert weapon of choice here) in her hand during the shoot? If not, what the hell good does it do?
Why is shooting with a photographer who belongs to a public forum more menacing than other aspects of life, like fueling your car, or using an ATM?
Photographer
Travis Richardson
Posts: 107
MACK, Colorado, US
Im more worried about a stop at a gas station than an arranged photo shoot, but i have a fire extinguisher at home even though i dont plan on burning my house down. I always wear my seatbelt but ive never tried to run into anything. I think being legally armed and trained to be competent with your protection of choice is just smart planning. (LEGALLY, and COMPETENT) I shot with a great model first at her house, then at a wilderness park, found out through conversation during the shoot that she has her concealed permit and carried a small gun. Good for her... she also didnt feel the need for an escort since she was prepared to be able to take care of herself.
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom
KonstantKarma wrote:
I'll help you out: I'm always packing.
Of course, you'll never know until shit goes down. Haha! I shall put you on my 'avoid or be possibly shot' list.
Your the only name on it so far. Honoured much? X
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5214
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom
ArtisticGlamour wrote:
The most important part of "Self Defense" is awareness, and not making yourself into a victim, in the first place. Respectfully, nope.
Our inscrutable 6th Dan Master would often preach on self defense. I always thought it was a sensible mantra:
Best form of self defense - do not be there in the first place.
That's it really. Checking references, doing sensible due diligence and following your gut instinct equates to 'not being there in the first place' if any of it doesn't check out or you get a 'bad' feeling.
For those of you that are interested, Master Barker would then go on to say:
If you are out and about -stay awake, be aware of what is happening around you. The next best form of self defense, should you suspect that their is trouble brewing, is to 'run'. Run away as fast as you can.
If you are in a confined space or a building or such and can't run, lets say you escape route is blocked (always be aware of the escape routes BEFORE trouble starts) remove the obstacle in your path with ferocious speed and maximum force and then RUN. As fast as you can.
Master Barker was big on running fast.
Interestingly he would also go on to preach that if you were outnumbered and unable to unblock your escape route, then always try to take down the apparent 'ring leader' first. Which makes sense when you think about it.
Photographer
ArtisticGlamour
Posts: 3846
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Drew Smith Photography wrote:
Respectfully, nope.
Our inscrutable 6th Dan Master would often preach on self defense. I always thought it was a sensible mantra:
Best form of self defense - do not be there in the first place.
That's it really. Checking references, doing sensible due diligence and following your gut instinct equates to 'not being there in the first place' if any of it doesn't check out or you get a 'bad' feeling. Respectfully YES, I think we said the EXACT same thing: to WAKE up and be aware of your surroundings and avoid being a victim in the first place. Background checks and RUNNING AWAY are two of the best tools to AVOID danger.
However, I hesitate to advise "martial arts" as a reliable means of self defense, but a great way to develop confidence and mindset (and stay in shape). It can be the exact WRONG training for a truly violent confrontation. Even from an inscrutable 6th Dan Master sensai. LOL!
MOST martial arts to not teach the OVERWHELMING catastrophic violence necessary in a life threatening situation. Most martial arts teach an "exchange" similar to dancing...not REAL aggression. You don't want to "defend" against an attack, you want to PREVENT/STOP it immediately. No "exchanges" of violence, thank you. I'm too OLD to train to "play" fight anymore.
MOST people would be better to Train (fully train) with the proper application of pepper spray.
Photographer
steve sessem
Posts: 70
Lackawanna, New York, US
Image Studios wrote:
They are not switchblades now they are spring assisted. spring assisted and switchblades are not the same..
fine line between the two..
know what you are carrying
Model
Anna Von Leigh
Posts: 120
Chico, California, US
I appreciate all the feedback from both sides. This was my intention, to start a discussion. I find it interesting that its mostly photographers responding. I didn't mean to make it seems as though models NEED to protect themselves from photographers. One thing I will not stand for is getting angry messages from photographers telling me they will never work with me because they saw this thread. It's uncalled for, and unnecessary. Please be respectful and kind. Never once did I say I carry a weapon to shoots. Quit making assumptions. Ok, sorry. Carry on
Photographer
ArtisticGlamour
Posts: 3846
Phoenix, Arizona, US
BEST defense:
1.) WAKE UP!
2.) Have a good plan/Background checks/etc. (Use your brain 1st! and proper tools...)
3.) TRAIN, train, train the plan. (whatever "tools" you choose)
It's a "mindset" that you should use in ALL your daily life...not just your photoshoots.
Photographer
ArtisticGlamour
Posts: 3846
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Anna Von Leigh wrote:
Please be respectful and kind.
Never once did I say I carry a weapon to shoots. Many photographers (such as myself) would have -no problem- with you choosing to protect yourself with a "carry" weapon, instead of counting on an (untrained) "escort" to protect you.
You would ALWAYS be welcome at my shoot!
And, I admire a woman who takes responsibility for her own safety, instead of "using" an (untrained) "escort" as a "tool".
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2513
Campobello, South Carolina, US
Leone P wrote:
Haha! I shall put you on my 'avoid or be possibly shot' list.
Your the only name on it so far. Honoured much? X Aw, now why would I shoot you? I have yet to have an emergency situation during a photoshoot.
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2513
Campobello, South Carolina, US
ArtisticGlamour wrote:
Many photographers (such as myself) would have -no problem- with you choosing to protect yourself with a "carry" weapon, instead of counting on an (untrained) "escort" to protect you.
You would ALWAYS be welcome at my shoot!
And, I admire a woman who takes responsibility for her own safety, instead of "using" an (untrained) "escort" as a "tool". This!
Obviously, a weapon is a last resort any model or photographer should need during a photoshoot, but I certainly welcome aware and responsible women who want to shoot with me.
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom
KonstantKarma wrote:
Aw, now why would I shoot you? I have yet to have an emergency situation during a photoshoot. Who knows haha! If i was to see said weapong, you can bet i would run as fast as my little legs could carry me whilst screaming "crazy gun man!!" the whole way lol!
Maybe it's just because i live in the UK but guns just aren't cool. 
Photographer
JONATHAN RICHARD
Posts: 778
New York, New York, US
Anna Von Leigh wrote:
I appreciate all the feedback from both sides. This was my intention, to start a discussion. .......
…….Never once did I say I carry a weapon to shoots. Quit making assumptions. Maybe you should have assessed the potential ramifications to your MM profile with such a post?
I see it as having shot yourself in the foot ….so to say.
Model
Kozmina
Posts: 6536
Bakersfield, California, US
Jonathan Richard wrote:
Maybe you should have assessed the potential ramifications to your MM profile with such a post?
I see it as having shot yourself in the foot ….so to say. Maybe she only wants to work with photogs that can read a thread in it's entirety and therefore would know that she herself does not carry a weapon and that she made this thread in order to spark conversation?
Photographer
Gabby57
Posts: 470
Ponca City, Oklahoma, US
Leone P wrote:
Who knows haha! If i was to see said weapong, you can bet i would run as fast as my little legs could carry me whilst screaming "crazy gun man!!" the whole way lol!
Maybe it's just because ilive in the UK but guns just aren't cool. Yep, must be because you live in the UK, or as some others here with similar views in an urban center, because guns are a lot of fun, bought my grand daughter a pink .22 for her tenth birthday last year. She loves it when her dad takes her shooting. It's all about cultural tolerance and education.
But the thread isn't gun specific, and no one has answered the questions I posed. All of the statistics indicate violent crime has been decreasing in the US for many years, but the 24 hr. news cycle seems to keep people more on edge, or maybe being on edge has decreased the crime? Hard to say.
Model
JWest
Posts: 1000
Asheville, North Carolina, US
Anna Von Leigh wrote:
Ok kids, I want to get other models ideas on this subject. Feeling protected on photo shoots. I'm talking about bringing a weapon or pepper spray, or something of that matter to a shoot.
We all have our bag full of clothes and makeup, do you also carry a knife? Gun? Taser?
*EDITED* I keep pepper spray in my bag at all times.
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15973
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom
Anna Von Leigh wrote:
We all have our bag full of clothes and makeup, do you also carry a knife? Gun? Taser? So if the photographers 6 ft away from you and your weapon(s) are 20 ft away in a bag how are you going to reach them when he advances towards you.. unless you have your taser in your g-string.
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom
Gabby57 wrote:
Yep, must be because you live in the UK, or as some others here with similar views in an urban center, because guns are a lot of fun, bought my grand daughter a pink .22 for her tenth birthday last year. She loves it when her dad takes her shooting. It's all about cultural tolerance and education. Are you kidding me! You can't be for real?!? Hell, i hope to be buying my daughters dolls and board games for their tenth birthday, not a freaking gun! Jeeeeze!
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom
Leone P wrote:
Are you kidding me! You can't be for real?!? Hell, i hope to be buying my daughters dolls and board games for their tenth birthday, not a freaking gun! Jeeeeze! Sorry if that sounded bitchy and judgemental. Just boggles my mind a little. Guns and knives etc just aren't common at all in the UK. The only time you hear of them are on the news and that's not very often!
Photographer
Gabby57
Posts: 470
Ponca City, Oklahoma, US
Leone P wrote:
Are you kidding me! You can't be for real?!? Hell, i hope to be buying my daughters dolls and board games for their tenth birthday, not a freaking gun! Jeeeeze! Like I said, it's a matter of the culture you are in.
I got my first gun at 12, most of my friends had theirs by the time they were 10, one of his uncles bought my grand son his first at 9. Mind you, they are only allowed to handle them under adult supervision (and they'd be in deep trouble posing for a picture with their finger on the trigger ;-))Nobody I know ever got into trouble with one, and I'll turn 56 Sunday.
LOL,
It just occurred to me how much safer Nadia must have felt when I had her pose with that sword in my port!
Photographer
ChanStudio - OtherSide
Posts: 5403
Alpharetta, Georgia, US
Anna Von Leigh wrote:
Ok kids, I want to get other models ideas on this subject. Feeling protected on photo shoots. I'm talking about bringing a weapon or pepper spray, or something of that matter to a shoot.
We all have our bag full of clothes and makeup, do you also carry a knife? Gun? Taser?
*EDITED* I heard that Hitachi make very good magic wand.
Are you bringing weapons to protect yourself from the photographer or from other people?
Photographer
ChanStudio - OtherSide
Posts: 5403
Alpharetta, Georgia, US
Anna Von Leigh wrote:
I appreciate all the feedback from both sides. This was my intention, to start a discussion.
I find it interesting that its mostly photographers responding. I didn't mean to make it seems as though models NEED to protect themselves from photographers.
One thing I will not stand for is getting angry messages from photographers telling me they will never work with me because they saw this thread. It's uncalled for, and unnecessary.
Please be respectful and kind.
Never once did I say I carry a weapon to shoots. Quit making assumptions.
Ok, sorry. Carry on I think we as society being very paranoid at times..
Photographer
Natural Means
Posts: 936
Yamba, New South Wales, Australia
Anna Von Leigh wrote:
Ok kids, I want to get other models ideas on this subject. Feeling protected on photo shoots. I'm talking about bringing a weapon or pepper spray, or something of that matter to a shoot.
We all have our bag full of clothes and makeup, do you also carry a knife? Gun? Taser?
*EDITED* I'd rather you focus on looking good than be worried about the revolver vs semi-auto quandry while we shoot.
Protection?
References
Variety and comfort of models in the photographers pf
Tags from happy models
Repeat shoots
Be accompanied by a driver (not escort) -
Be seen ringing in to friend or family as you arrive
Facebook tag bsfore shoot
Make out a will (joking joking)
Balance enthusasim with sensible caution
No weapons - i take crap photos when im worried if my revolver is out gunned today
Photographer
ArtisticGlamour
Posts: 3846
Phoenix, Arizona, US
c_h_r_i_s wrote:
So if the photographers 6 ft away from you and your weapon(s) are 20 ft away in a bag how are you going to reach them when he advances towards you.. unless you have your taser in your g-string. Exactly! It's so much better to have a policeman (who's 5 miles away) to protect you! LOL! Or to put your (untrained) escort (boyfriend) in harm's way. Much better HE ("escort") die or get hurt, than a "model". LOL!
Once again, it's just better to use your BEST weapon...your BRAIN...in the first place.
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15973
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom
BRAIN ! were talking models here.
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 7504
New York, New York, US
Kozmina wrote:
Maybe she only wants to work with photogs that can read a thread in it's entirety and therefore would know that she herself does not carry a weapon and that she made this thread in order to spark conversation? If so, given all the recent shootings we've had in this country, the number of threads currently active in off-topic and how frequently the question is raised in the industry forums, as a conversational gambit, it's in execrable taste.
Model
V Laroche
Posts: 2746
Khowmeyn, Markazī, Iran
I carry a little pink can of pepper spray with me everywhere. Last week I came really close to using it for the first time on a group of men, but in the end they decided they would rather leave me alone than find out how bad it burns.
Model
Anna Von Leigh
Posts: 120
Chico, California, US
Rays Fine Art wrote:
If so, given all the recent shootings we've had in this country, the number of threads currently active in off-topic and how frequently the question is raised in the industry forums, as a conversational gambit, it's in execrable taste. There is a big difference between a murderer, rapist and serial killer and a person protecting themselves. This has nothing to do with innocent people being killed or gun laws.
It was a question directed at models, try not to read into it so much.
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15973
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom
V Laroche wrote:
I carry a little pink can of pepper spray with me everywhere. Last week I came really close to using it for the first time on a group of men, but in the end they decided they would rather leave me alone than find out how bad it burns. Were they photographers ?
Photographer
Mark Salo
Posts: 11723
Olney, Maryland, US
c_h_r_i_s wrote:
So if the photographers 6 ft away from you and your weapon(s) are 20 ft away in a bag how are you going to reach them when he advances towards you.. unless you have your taser in your g-string. This gives me a great idea for a shoot.
Photographer
ArtisticGlamour
Posts: 3846
Phoenix, Arizona, US
c_h_r_i_s wrote:
BRAIN ! were talking models here. LOL! True, forget what I said...better to just bring an escort! LOL!
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