Wynd Mulysa wrote:

I think there are a lot of things you are assuming here that don't add up, and that you are disrespecting the choices of women you don't know by naming their experiences and intentions.

Honestly...I am just not going to go into explicit detail about it because it's just going to turn into a huge debate on a thread that is not about that.  It came up for a sec between another poster and I while discussing the subject from the OP....now it should be done out of respect to the OP.

T A Y L O R  wrote:
It's called protected sex, and as someone who has a lot of it with multiple partners frequently, I can assure you that I have plenty of self respect.

Condoms are not very effective against HPV

My opinion will stay the same...if you want to discuss it anymore then start a thread and we can discuss it there...otherwise, done.

j3_photo wrote:

  love how you said this

LOL...well it's pretty well how it happens!

La Lana  wrote:

Honestly...I am just not going to go into explicit detail about it because it's just going to turn into a huge debate on a thread that is not about that.  It came up for a sec between another poster and I while discussing the subject from the OP....now it should be done out of respect to the OP.

Nice cop-out.  No one is talking about the OP anymore.

T A Y L O R  wrote:

Ha! What's funny is I totally am one of those. I love teetering around drunk and goofy looking in my heels. When I'm home alone I get my sweats out and bump and grind in comfy clothes, but I love getting dressed up when I go out.

My personal taste in men has confused female friends for a long time. Want to make me so horny I can't speak? Just start babbling on intelligently about some topic I know nothing about. Preferably science related. Seriously. I have a physical reaction. I tend to like guys who are a little chubby and who don't really care about their appearance. Personal preference says, if you were a physics loving overweight gaming loner in high school, I won't be able to help myself from wanting to fuck your brains out.

But take your shirt off and show off your abs with a One Direction twinkle in your eye? My lady boner just disappeared, man.

Like a worm on a hook

(Says I, undergrad work in astrophysics and all)

ASYLUM - Photo wrote:
Either I've been lied to all this time, or I know particularly perverted women

The perverts just aren't speaking up.

Too busy masturbating to cock-pics, no doubt…

Wynd Mulysa wrote:

Nice cop-out.  No one is talking about the OP anymore.

It's not a cop out...I just personally don't find it respectful to thread jack.  Like I said, if someone wants to start a thread and discuss it there...fine, but my views on it are, and will stay the same.

Kincaid Blackwood wrote:
The perverts just aren't speaking up.

Too busy masturbating to cock-pics, no doubt…

That's the only logical explanation.

ASYLUM - Photo wrote:
That's the only logical explanation.

Pretty much.


I mean, it was a full two hours between the time we raised that issue and when Jules NYC put up her next post. What was she doing in all that time?

Kincaid Blackwood wrote:
Pretty much.


I mean, it was a full two hours between the time we raised that issue and when Jules NYC put up her next post. What was she doing in all that time?

Talking to my hot musician friend on Skype who lives in Utah.


He's a respectable man.
That's why we're friends.

La Lana  wrote:
That's your opinion...I feel if someone opens themselves up to STDs and pregnancies from strangers....that is not very self respecting.

Or sleeps with a man who disrespects her...

Or has sex with men knowing they have wives and gfs is lack of self respect and respect for others.

I was in a relationship with a married man for three years. I loved him very much, and even though I ended the relationship several months ago, I still love and miss him some days. You cannot understand the mindset or self-esteem level of every woman who has ever dated a married man. In many ways, that was the best relationship I ever had, definitely the most consistent and reliable ones. I thought about his wife a lot, her feelings, her life. I envied her status, feared her and felt constant anxiety in response to my belief about what she would experience if she found out. She ran a salon and sometimes, I would walk past her business, watching for her, and thinking that at some point I would just be able to go in and tell her. I never did because I would have lost the best companion I ever had.

yes, I was a mistress and in an affair but the variety and complexity of the feelings and interactions of those relationships are impossible for most people to understand. If anything, being with him showed me many things about myself, about life and about being a grown up. Self respect had nothing to do with it. It was complex. It was real and it was a legitimate relationship.

La Lana  wrote:

It's not a cop out...I just personally don't find it respectful to thread jack.  Like I said, if someone wants to start a thread and discuss it there...fine, but my views on it are, and will stay the same.

I respect that you don't want to highjack, so I won't continue the discussion. I will say however, that you point out that we can start a new thread for discussion while in the same breath noting that your views on the matter "will stay the same." Those views are that I and other people in this thread have no self respect. I can not respect your decision to stay steadfast in any decision, because that is pointedly anti-intellectual, but I can say that if you decide to adopt a holier than thou position that is distinctly anti a lot of people in this community, you're going to have a difficult time utilizing the forums for the incredible networking opportunity they present.

Koryn Locke wrote:
I was in a relationship with a married man for three years. I loved him very much, and even though I ended the relationship several months ago, I still love and miss him some days. You cannot understand the mindset or self-esteem level of every woman who has ever dated a married man. In many ways, that was the best relationship I ever had, definitely the most consistent and reliable ones. I thought about his wife a lot, her feelings, her life. I envied her status, feared her and felt constant anxiety in response to my belief about what she would experience if she found out. She ran a salon and sometimes, I would walk past her business, watching for her, and thinking that at some point I would just be able to go in and tell her. I never did because I would have lost the best companion I ever had.

yes, I was a mistress and in an affair but the variety and complexity of the feelings and interactions of those relationships are impossible for most people to understand. If anything, being with him showed me many things about myself, about life and about being a grown up. Self respect had nothing to do with it. It was complex. It was real and it was a legitimate relationship.

A married man selfishly lies to the woman he made a vow to.
Married men prey on women that oddly crave a stable relationship.
If you feel you learned from it, that's fine, but the relationship was built on a premise of dishonesty.

You and he both were honest with each other because you both were fully aware of the scenario. The wife was not. Ignorance is not bliss. Trust is everything in a relationship. When I say "I trust you", it's as gold as saying, "I love you."

Maybe this song explains it better than me appearing to be throwing stones.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=yTL8cyDU … TL8cyDU_C4

T A Y L O R  wrote:
It would be really interesting to look at the gender double standard in a "do guys actually like it when a girl sends..." thread. Women are so much more socially sexualized than men, but because of this we have a much easier time initiating and partaking in sexual experiences (the girl walks up to the guy at a bar and asks if he wants to go home with her and he pays for his drink immediately, the guy walks up to a girl at a bar and asks if she wants to go home with him and she throws her drink in his face.) Too bad we can't utilize the awesomeness of this power without being called self devaluing whores!

I wouldn't be interested in any man that would say "Yes" to that scenario.
Then again, I wouldn't want to be with anyone that was driven by their penis.

T A Y L O R  wrote:

I respect that you don't want to highjack, so I won't continue the discussion. I will say however, that you point out that we can start a new thread for discussion while in the same breath noting that your views on the matter "will stay the same." Those views are that I and other people in this thread have no self respect. I can not respect your decision to stay steadfast in any decision, because that is pointedly anti-intellectual, but I can say that if you decide to adopt a holier than thou position that is distinctly anti a lot of people in this community, you're going to have a difficult time utilizing the forums for the incredible networking opportunity they present.

It's not a holier than thou position...it was a set of values that I grew  up with.  People develop opinions...it's our nature but I really don't care what people do with their lives.  I think it's gross to eat eggs with ketchup on them, but Idc if people do it.

Jules NYC wrote:

I wouldn't be interested in any man that would say "Yes" to that scenario.
Then again, I wouldn't want to be with anyone that was driven by their penis.

This is the wonderful thing about sexuality. It's not up to us what turns us on. It took me AGES (and I'm still accepting it) to accept that what turns me on sexually isn't indicative of how smart I am, how compassionate I am, how much I like kittens, how much I respect myself, or anything else that's not mutually exclusive and isn't 100% intertwined with sexuality.

I find it incredibly sexually gratifying to have a one night stand with someone. I love walking up to someone and saying "do you want to go home with me?" and having them say yes, and having us have sex as a result. I also have a ton of self respect, because I'm aware that my sexuality has almost nothing to do with anything else of substance that I care about in my life. Sex and sexual purity (blech) are not on a pedestal for me. I like what I like, and I'm not ashamed of that. I'm still a neurobio/psych undergrad at one of the best universities in the world, I still try to be a nice person, and I still love my two cats. Absolutely none of those things have anything to do with how much or how little or what kind of sex I had with who last night.

T A Y L O R  wrote:

This is the wonderful thing about sexuality. It's not up to us what turns us on. It took me AGES (and I'm still accepting it) to accept that what turns me on sexually isn't indicative of how smart I am, how compassionate I am, how much I like kittens, how much I respect myself, or anything else that's not mutually exclusive and isn't 100% intertwined with sexuality.

I find it incredibly sexually gratifying to have a one night stand with someone. I love walking up to someone and saying "do you want to go home with me?" and having them say yes, and having us have sex as a result. I also have a ton of self respect, because I'm aware that my sexuality has almost nothing to do with anything else of substance that I care about in my life. Sex and sexual purity (blech) are not on a pedestal for me. I like what I like, and I'm not ashamed of that. I'm still a neurobio/psych undergrad at one of the best universities in the world, I still try to be a nice person, and I still love my two cats. Absolutely none of those things have anything to do with how much or how little or what kind of sex I had with who last night.

I don't think anyone is arguing or deameaning you for how you feel and act upon your sexuality.
There is risk to disease (HPV) that a condom or spermicide doesn't negate 100%.

I also find it curious why it may be a common belief that people that don't have multiple partners are given sarcastic labeling. They too can be very comfortable in their sexuality.

La Lana  wrote:

It's not a holier than thou position...it was a set of values that I grew  up with.  People develop opinions...it's our nature but I really don't care what people do with their lives.  I think it's gross to eat eggs with ketchup on them, but Idc if people do it.

It is a holier than thou opinion when a facet of self respect is how much one is respected by others, and your position very clearly states that you don't respect me or other people in this thread. To copypasta from something I said elsewhere the other day ""Self respect" is a mildly ambiguous term in that it can mean both "respect for oneself" and "concern for one's reputation," and one can have problems with self acceptance, leading to a lack of respect for ones self. This can be caused by any number of things, including societies lack of understanding and respect for what makes someone happy (and doesn't harm anyone else). "Concern for one's reputation" is of course is, of course, a socially driven facet of "self respect." And SELF RESPECT shouldn't be denied someone for someone ELSE'S decision about a woman/man's sexuality, clothing decisions, hair color decisions, etc."

Respect is to hold someone in esteem or honor, and since I don't think your stance should be esteemed or honored I don't respect it any more than you don't respect mine. I, however, am looking for intellectual discourse on the matter and wish to further this discussion in another thread without the pretense of me already having formed and stayed steadfast in my opinion. I would argue (with an admitted bias) that this garners my opinion as being worth much more respect than yours does, because I'm opening mine up to discussion and criticism, and you've already stated that you'll do no such thing.

T A Y L O R  wrote:

This is the wonderful thing about sexuality. It's not up to us what turns us on. It took me AGES (and I'm still accepting it) to accept that what turns me on sexually isn't indicative of how smart I am, how compassionate I am, how much I like kittens, how much I respect myself, or anything else that's not mutually exclusive and isn't 100% intertwined with sexuality.

I find it incredibly sexually gratifying to have a one night stand with someone. I love walking up to someone and saying "do you want to go home with me?" and having them say yes, and having us have sex as a result. I also have a ton of self respect, because I'm aware that my sexuality has almost nothing to do with anything else of substance that I care about in my life. Sex and sexual purity (blech) are not on a pedestal for me. I like what I like, and I'm not ashamed of that. I'm still a neurobio/psych undergrad at one of the best universities in the world, I still try to be a nice person, and I still love my two cats. Absolutely none of those things have anything to do with how much or how little or what kind of sex I had with who last night.

Did your inbox just get flooded with, "How you doin'?"

T A Y L O R  wrote:

It is a holier than thou opinion when a facet of self respect is how much one is respected by others, and your position very clearly states that you don't respect me or other people in this thread. To copypasta from something I said elsewhere the other day ""Self respect" is a mildly ambiguous term in that it can mean both "respect for oneself" and "concern for one's reputation," and one can have problems with self acceptance, leading to a lack of respect for ones self. This can be caused by any number of things, including societies lack of understanding and respect for what makes someone happy (and doesn't harm anyone else). "Concern for one's reputation" is of course is, of course, a socially driven facet of "self respect." And SELF RESPECT shouldn't be denied someone for someone ELSE'S decision about a woman/man's sexuality, clothing decisions, hair color decisions, etc."

Respect is to hold someone in esteem or honor, and since I don't think your stance should be esteemed or honored I don't respect it any more than you don't respect mine. I, however, am looking for intellectual discourse on the matter and wish to further this discussion in another thread without the pretense of me already having formed and stayed steadfast in my opinion. I would argue (with an admitted bias) that this garners my opinion as being worth much more respect than yours does, because I'm opening mine up to discussion and criticism, and you've already stated that you'll do no such thing.

So you feel it's okay for you to decide what is more respectful, but not for others who may find your actions as not respectful?

I shouldn't have to put my views on sex on an open discussion.  Who cares?

Jules NYC wrote:

I don't think anyone is arguing or deameaning you for how you feel and act upon your sexuality.
There is risk to disease (HPV) that a condom or spermicide doesn't negate 100%.

I also find it curious why it may be a common belief that people that don't have multiple partners are given sarcastic labeling. They too can be very comfortable in their sexuality.

Ah, but see Lana said she found this to be indicative that someone lacks self respect. That's what I was responding to. Yes, there is a very small risk of disease and pregnancy that occurs if someone has protected sex (which I always, always do). However arguing that people shouldn't have protected consensual adult sex because of a very small risk of infection, and arguing that those who do lack self respect is just silly. Would you say that someone who eats raw food is deserving of the same criticisms? Or drives to work everyday (a risk that assuredly destroys more lives than multi partner sex)? There are plenty of arguments to stand on, but arguing that people shouldn't have multi partner sex because of miniscule health risks isn't really one of them.

T A Y L O R  wrote:

Ah, but see Lana said she found this to be indicative that someone lacks self respect. That's what I was responding to. Yes, there is a very small risk of disease and pregnancy that occurs if someone has protected sex (which I always, always do). However arguing that people shouldn't have protected consensual adult sex because of a very small risk of infection, and arguing that those who do lack self respect is just silly. Would you say that someone who eats raw food is deserving of the same criticisms? Or drives to work everyday (a risk that assuredly destroys more lives than multi partner sex)? There are plenty of arguments to stand on, but arguing that people shouldn't have multi partner sex because of miniscule health risks isn't really one of them.

Maybe the OP would save himself a trip to the bar if he met you.

T A Y L O R  wrote:

Ah, but see Lana said she found this to be indicative that someone lacks self respect. That's what I was responding to. Yes, there is a very small risk of disease and pregnancy that occurs if someone has protected sex (which I always, always do). However arguing that people shouldn't have protected consensual adult sex because of a very small risk of infection, and arguing that those who do lack self respect is just silly. Would you say that someone who eats raw food is deserving of the same criticisms? Or drives to work everyday (a risk that assuredly destroys more lives than multi partner sex)? There are plenty of arguments to stand on, but arguing that people shouldn't have multi partner sex because of miniscule health risks isn't really one of them.

There is a large risk of HPV and herpes even while protected.  But I never once said consenting adults shouldn't have sex...I have opinions, but at the same time...I don't care.  My friends do it regularly, I never say anything to them...I don't care.

La Lana  wrote:

So you feel it's okay for you to decide what is more respectful, but not for others who may find your actions as not respectful?

I shouldn't have to put my views on sex on an open discussion.  Who cares?

Please reread what I said and what I've been saying. I said absolutely nothing of the sort, I said that I am happy to discuss this while you are not. I would like to get differing viewpoints on the matter, while you do not. That at least makes me more intellectually inclined in this regard than it does you.

And uh, I care. Obviously the people who are responding to you care. But thanks for once again showing that your respect for us, our decisions, and our arguments are null. I'm so thoroughly saddened you won't be joining us for further intellectual discourse.

Jules NYC wrote:

Maybe the OP would save himself a trip to the bar if he met you.

Haha, maybe. It's funny too, neither he nor I would probably give a shit about the encounter, but I bet you a handful of people on this thread would have plenty to say about how we SHOULD feel about the matter.

T A Y L O R  wrote:

Please reread what I said and what I've been saying. I said absolutely nothing of the sort, I said that I am happy to discuss this while you are not. I would like to get differing viewpoints on the matter, while you do not. That at least makes me more intellectually inclined in this regard than it does you.

And uh, I care. Obviously the people who are responding to you care. But thanks for once again showing that your respect for us, our decisions, and our arguments are null. I'm so thoroughly saddened you won't be joining us for further intellectual discourse.

Taylor,you are so awesome! I love that you're a strong woman and have the guts to be honest about your sexuality.

I think you should start a thread about this back and forth you're having.

T A Y L O R  wrote:
Haha, maybe. It's funny too, neither he nor I would probably give a shit about the encounter, but I bet you a handful of people on this thread would have plenty to say about how we SHOULD feel about the matter.

Not really, you just both want the same things.
I don't care what other people do.

When I said I wouldn't want someone driven by their penis I meant it.
Just stating my opinion like you are sharing what you like or don't like.

It's like those religion threads...
Atheists mock the believing.
Then a fight or a thesis comes up to prove intelligence.

I guess I don't enjoy writing term papers on MM to prove anything.

Jules NYC wrote:

Right, absolutely. But if you're having protected sex, even with someone who you're with who's HIV+ and you're using a condom, you're 80% less likely to get infected than someone who's not (this is in a heterosexual relationship).

http://www.cdc.gov/std/treatment/2010/clinical.htm

Jules NYC wrote:

Not really, you just both want the same things.
I don't care what other people do.

When I said I wouldn't want someone driven by their penis I meant it.
Just stating my opinion like you are sharing what you like or don't like.

It's like those religion threads...
Atheists mock the believing.
Then a fight or a thesis comes up to prove intelligence.

I guess I don't enjoy writing term papers on MM to prove anything.

Absolutely! I'm 100% not arguing with you on that front. I would never be like "wow, I can't believe what turns me on doesn't turn you on. Weirdo!" I do think that what turns you on is more socially accepted, and therefore requires less discussion to gain acceptance.

The difference between stating that someone wouldn't be self respecting to do what I (and others) do and that it's our personal choice which you don't care about is a huge difference. Like I said above, a facet of self respect is the reputation of someone, which is bestowed upon them by socially driven factors. So if Lana says (and you agree, to my knowledge) that we shouldn't have self respect that's very different than saying "c'est la vie, I don't care."

I don't know what you mean by this, "Then a fight or a thesis comes up to prove intelligence."

It doesn't have to be a term paper to prove your point. One of the things I'm really working on is getting my points into easily understandable, short points so that the conversation doesn't have to consist of 19 pages of 8 page papers. That's one of my current goals. (That and not just being an angry trolling bitch. Sometimes it's hard to fight that urge and be nice! Especially with my particular set of neuroses. )

T A Y L O R  wrote:

Right, absolutely. But if you're having protected sex, even with someone who you're with who's HIV+ and you're using a condom, you're 80% less likely to get infected than someone who's not (this is in a heterosexual relationship).

http://www.cdc.gov/std/treatment/2010/clinical.htm

I don't want to risk 20% on possible death.
Plus, that herpes thing must suck.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=-tAK1hvK … tAK1hvKSso

Jules NYC wrote:

I don't want to risk 20% on possible death.
Plus, that herpes thing must suck.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=-tAK1hvK … tAK1hvKSso

Then I encourage you not to get into any more cars, eat any more interesting food, or use pens again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Otla5157c

In all seriousness though, I think it's really a legitimate discussion and I think it's a completely legitimate point that you're making. But rates of STD infection when protected sex is had are much lower than the risks of doing a lot of things I can assure you you do every day, and if you're going to argue that protected sex is worthy of lowered self respect, I would ask that you look at the myriad of risky things you do and see if they garner the same lowered self worth.

T A Y L O R  wrote:

Then I encourage you not to get into any more cars, eat any more interesting food, or use pens again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Otla5157c

In all seriousness though, I think it's really a legitimate discussion and I think it's a completely legitimate point that you're making. But rates of STD infection when protected sex is had are much lower than the risks of doing a lot of things I can assure you you do every day, and if you're going to argue that protected sex is worthy of lowered self respect, I would ask that you look at the myriad of risky things you do and see if they garner the same lowered self worth.

Thing is, I'm not judging your lifestyle.
It's the same as smoking cigarettes.

You can get cancer if you do or don't.
Thing is, there is less of a chance of cancer risk if you don't smoke at all.

As with sex, sure not giving up on that.
I just prefer to be in a relationship with someone and know their history.

As for accidents, well sure, anyone can die doing anything.
That's what accidents are.

Jules NYC wrote:

I don't want to risk 20% on possible death.
Plus, that herpes thing must suck.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=-tAK1hvK … tAK1hvKSso

If you are concerned about the possible death that could come from catching HPV [and that percentage is lower than 20%.  most strains of HPV are not cancerous] you'd better not be having sex with anyone.  Men can be carriers with no symptoms, and HPV is not detectable unless symptoms are present.  Only 1% of men who have HPV show symptoms.  http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv-and-men.htm

But, don't worry, if you do get it, your immune system will probably clear it in under two years.