Model
Sarah Louise Gater
Posts: 313
Stoke-on-Trent, England, United Kingdom
I can't help but wonder if I'm wasting my time trying to model and if anything is actually going to come from it. Is it a slow moving process and do I just need more patience? Or am I really just wasting my time?
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25319
Bath, England, United Kingdom
Sarah Louise Gater wrote:
I can't help but wonder if I'm wasting my time trying to model and if anything is actually going to come from it. Is it a slow moving process and do I just need more patience? Or am I really just wasting my time? 5'3" and don't shoot nudes?
Enjoy it as a hobby because you will almost certainly never make more than a few pennies from it.
Sorry to be a wet blanket on your dreams but it's better that you hear the truth.
Just my $0.02
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com
Model
Sarah Louise Gater
Posts: 313
Stoke-on-Trent, England, United Kingdom
I really don't believe coming out of my comfort zone to do nude shoots is the only way I can model. I do mean more as a hobby on a TF basis though. I'm not expecting paid shoots. Thank you for your advice though.
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25319
Bath, England, United Kingdom
Sarah Louise Gater wrote:
I really don't believe resorting to nude shoots is the only way I can model. You can 'model' however you like, as a hobby.
However, if you want to get paid more than once in a blue moon then you will need to shoot nudes.
And BTW there is no shame in modelling for nudes so I take exception to your use of the phrase "resorting to nude shoots".
Do you feel you're in some way better than girls like Fredau, Carla Monaco, Ella Rose, Madame Bink or Ivory Flame just because you refuse to shoot nudes?
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com
Photographer
1873 Images
Posts: 383
Binghamton, New York, US
If you were close to me I'd shoot with you TF in a heartbeat, as long as you had a good attitude (seems like you do), and responded to messages. Be patient and build your port. Contact photographers whose work/style you like.
Model
Sarah Louise Gater
Posts: 313
Stoke-on-Trent, England, United Kingdom
-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
You can 'model' however you like, as a hobby.
However, if you want to get paid more than once in a blue moon then you will need to shoot nudes.
And BTW there is no shame in modelling for nudes so I take exception to your use of the phrase "resorting to nude shoots".
Do you feel you're in some way better than girls like Fredau, Carla Monaco, Ella Rose, Madame Bink or Ivory Flame just because you refuse to shoot nudes?
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com I never said or insinuated I was better than any model that shoots nudes. Most photos that I comment on are nudes because they can create a beautiful image. What I mean by resorting to is that it's not in my comfort zone. If I don't feel comfortable how would I create a great image for a photographer?
Model
Sarah Louise Gater
Posts: 313
Stoke-on-Trent, England, United Kingdom
1873 Images wrote:
If you were close to me I'd shoot with you TF in a heartbeat, as long as you had a good attitude (seems like you do), and responded to messages. Be patient and build your port. Contact photographers whose work/style you like. Ah thank you! I appreciate that 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25319
Bath, England, United Kingdom
Sarah Louise Gater wrote:
I never said or insinuated I was better than any model that shoots nudes. Most photos that I comment on are nudes because they can create a beautiful image. What I mean by resorting to is that it's not in my comfort zone. Then you should have said you don't feel comfortable shooting nudes. That's completely different and a perfectly acceptable reason.
However, the use of the phrase "resorting to" definitely implies opprobrium, so you would do well to be more careful how you word things in future, especially with people like me around ready to jump on you! 
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com
Model
Sarah Louise Gater
Posts: 313
Stoke-on-Trent, England, United Kingdom
-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
Then you should have said you don't feel comfortable shooting nudes. That's completely different and a perfectly acceptable reason.
However, the use of the phrase "resorting to" definitely implies approbation, so you would do well to be more careful how you word things in future, especially with people like me around ready to jump on you!
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com Lol you definitely did jump! I will in future
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25319
Bath, England, United Kingdom
Sarah Louise Gater wrote:
Lol you definitely did jump! I will in future No worries - and feel free to jump on me for incorrectly typing "approbation" when I in fact meant "opprobrium" - see how easily it's done!
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com
Model
Sarah Louise Gater
Posts: 313
Stoke-on-Trent, England, United Kingdom
Haha you corrected it, I wasnt quick enough 
Photographer
Eleven 11 Photography
Posts: 409
Auburn, Alabama, US
Since being on MM I've spoke with sent messages to 40 or so models. I've gotten 15 timely responses (within a week). Out of those 15 I've shot with or am shooting with 6.
I'd imagine that the odds are probably higher on the model to photographer side. Be persistent, pound the pavement so to speak. Shoot with photographers whose style you admire and build a good body of work. You may never retire from modeling but you can certainly enjoy it and make a little money for toy if you do the work you need to do to have a chance at being successful.
And I say "you may never retire" without knowing your statistics. The truth of the matter is there are a lot of pretty girls who are "optimal" and will still never retire based on a modeling career.
Model
Sarah Louise Gater
Posts: 313
Stoke-on-Trent, England, United Kingdom
1k-words-photograpy wrote:
Since being on MM I've spoke with sent messages to 40 or so llamas. I've gotten 15 timely responses (within a week). Out of those 15 I've shot with or am shooting with 6.
I'd imagine that the odds are probably higher on the llama to photographer side. Be persistent, pound the pavement so to speak. Shoot with photographers whose style you admire and build a good body of work. You may never retire from llamaing but you can certainly enjoy it and make a little money for toy if you do the work you need to do to have a chance at being successful.
And I say "you may never retire" without knowing your statistics. The truth of the matter is there are a lot of pretty girls who are "optimal" and will still never retire based on a llamaing career. Thank you that's very true I'll keep at it and work harder!
Photographer
JONATHAN RICHARD
Posts: 778
New York, New York, US
Sarah Louise Gater wrote:
I can't help but wonder if I'm wasting my time trying to model and if anything is actually going to come from it. Is it a slow moving process and do I just need more patience? Or am I really just wasting my time? If you are asking should you keep going? Are you modeling for hobby or for career?
If you find this hobby not too rewarding enough … You can always replace your modeling time with Stamp collecting….. I hear it can be very satisfying
Very few models can make modeling their full-time career. And as stated above your stats will be a contributing factor as toward a direction and type of modeling you may be successful with for monetary compensation.
Not having an agency, not spending a lot of your time, not spending your money and or resources, or not putting in a lot of effort on your part will result in you probably not succeeding at doing this full-time or at all.
And understand even if you did provide all of the above there would still be no guarantees
Photographer
Jay Farrell
Posts: 13408
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Sarah Louise Gater wrote:
I really don't believe resorting to nude shoots is the only way I can llama. I do mean more as a hobby on a TF basis though. I'm not expecting paid shoots. Thank you for your advice though. Resorting? Yes, you are wasting your time.
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1020
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Creatives, hobby, do what you love. Get some great shots and make a nice photo album. The "not agency stats? must do nudes for pay!" is such a funny thing. Most photographers I know who hire models to shoot nude work want to work with experienced nude models who are, first and foremost, comfortable posing nude. If you don't want to or feel comfortable pursuing nude work (and many don't), then don't - while it's an option for paid work, you're unlikely to make income from forcing yourself.
Model
Sarah Louise Gater
Posts: 313
Stoke-on-Trent, England, United Kingdom
EMILY C wrote:
Creatives, hobby, do what you love. Get some great shots and make a nice photo album.
The "not agency stats? must do nudes for pay!" is such a funny thing. Most photographers I know who hire models to shoot nude work want to work with experienced nude models who are, first and foremost, comfortable posing nude. If you don't want to or feel comfortable pursuing nude work (and many don't), then don't - while it's an option for paid work, you're unlikely to make income from forcing yourself. I completely agree thank you
Model
Lee Dhepnorrarat
Posts: 2
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Lee Dhepnorrarat wrote:
this is silly all these photographers quoting whether you will be successful or not, they know about photography not llamaling. Hiring girls doesn't mean you know how they will be successful or not.
I am older and only started llamaling after putting my daughter into it and being asked for mum llamaling.
Since starting I have had no success with agencies and have not stopped working even if part time since I started 4 years ago.
I am size 14 and 36 years old so by no means your standard girl who would get llamaling and have been knocked back by many agencies all you need is good attitude and you can succeed at anything you want to suceed at.
All those FORCING GIRLS INTO NUDES, do so only so they can have a good look. You DON'T NEED TO DO THIS TO WORK. Do what your comfortable. All photographers saying she needs to do this I am talking to you.
If you want to get paid a lot or do as hobby is your choice but hobby is easy to keep going and get money here and there.
I say go for it girl, your stunning and there is definately a need for petites I have seen many jobs requiring girls petite in size. Go for it!
Photographer
K E E L I N G
Posts: 39894
Peoria, Illinois, US
Sarah Louise Gater wrote:
I really don't believe coming out of my comfort zone to do nude shoots is the only way I can model. I do mean more as a hobby on a TF basis though. I'm not expecting paid shoots. Thank you for your advice though. Yes you should keep going if you enjoy shooting. If you don't enjoy it... quit. That is the only criteria a hobbyist should consider.
Photographer
Shiva Photo
Posts: 1961
East Hills, New York, US
Be creative. come up with some themes and ideas that photographers like. Spark some interest. Stand out from the herd. Head shots do not require height. Hands and feet modeling, editorial, print and catalog dont need height either.
Model
Sarah Louise Gater
Posts: 313
Stoke-on-Trent, England, United Kingdom
Lee Dhepnorrarat wrote:
this is silly all these photographers quoting whether you will be successful or not, they know about photography not modelling. Hiring girls doesn't mean you know how they will be successful or not.
I am older and only started modelling after putting my daughter into it and being asked for mum modelling.
Since starting I have had no success with agencies and have not stopped working even if part time since I started 4 years ago.
I am size 14 and 36 years old so by no means your standard girl who would get modelling and have been knocked back by many agencies all you need is good attitude and you can succeed at anything you want to suceed at.
All those FORCING GIRLS INTO NUDES, do so only so they can have a good look. You DON'T NEED TO DO THIS TO WORK. Do what your comfortable. All photographers saying she needs to do this I am talking to you.
If you want to get paid a lot or do as hobby is your choice but hobby is easy to keep going and get money here and there.
I say go for it girl, your stunning and there is definately a need for petites I have seen many jobs requiring girls petite in size. Go for it! Aw thank you I'm glad you've kept it going and give girls like me some inspiration to give it a good go and that there is hope to succeed even if it's part time. I do enjoy shoots and I love creating different looks for a photographer. Thank you all for your advice
Photographer
name removed3
Posts: 264
Boston, Massachusetts, US
patience is key and practice, keep at it!
Photographer
Frank McDonough
Posts: 147
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Shiva Photo wrote:
Be creative. come up with some themes and ideas that photographers like. Spark some interest. Stand out from the herd. Head shots do not require height. Hands and feet modeling, editorial, print and catalog dont need height either. That's very true. As a photographer I love it when the model shows some interest and has some ideas. Makes the shoot more fun when it's collabertive. We all get plenty of those models that may be pretty but are just really boring to shoot. it is true, if you don't shoot nudes and don't have the height you are limited in what you can do, but there are plenty of photographers looking for a pretty model. Good luck
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1020
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Shiva Photo wrote:
Hands and feet modeling, editorial, print and catalog dont need height either. Where are the jobs for these things?
Every one that I know uses agency models.
They would never take a 5'3" model, unless she had perfect hands or feet or something and was a friend of a friend (or it's for fetish) -- plenty of agency models already have this.
And yes, height matters for print and catalog. Because the clients booking for any legitimate job are going with agency models -- who are tall.
If not with an agency, then you're freelance - and if not in the professional freelance art/nude/erotic market, then you're most likely an amateur/hobby model where your 'market' is mostly shooting TFP with local photographers and maybe occasionally finding an amateur/local modeling gig, often unpaid. Most models on MM fall into this category.
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15973
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom
There are nudes and there are nudes.
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 23575
Salem, Oregon, US
i do mostly repeats with a small set of llamas i know to be reliable. maybe what you need is to find a photographer where you can become a regular. consider meet
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
Lee Dhepnorrarat wrote:
this is silly all these photographers quoting whether you will be successful or not, they know about photography not modelling. Hiring girls doesn't mean you know how they will be successful or not.
I am older and only started modelling after putting my daughter into it and being asked for mum modelling.
Since starting I have had no success with agencies and have not stopped working even if part time since I started 4 years ago.
I am size 14 and 36 years old so by no means your standard girl who would get modelling and have been knocked back by many agencies all you need is good attitude and you can succeed at anything you want to suceed at.
All those FORCING GIRLS INTO NUDES, do so only so they can have a good look. You DON'T NEED TO DO THIS TO WORK. Do what your comfortable. All photographers saying she needs to do this I am talking to you.
If you want to get paid a lot or do as hobby is your choice but hobby is easy to keep going and get money here and there.
I say go for it girl, your stunning and there is definately a need for petites I have seen many jobs requiring girls petite in size. Go for it! First of all, not one single person here was trying to force the OP into posing nude. The comment was made that, if she defines success by making money, then nude is the avenue that will provide the greater opportunity to do that.
Nobody here said the OP wouldn't be successful in her modeling based on her expectations. The OP is interested in modeling as a hobby so there is no measure of success, other than her enjoyment.
Saying that a model isn't Agency Standard and isn't likely to ever be signed to an Agency isn't saying that the model won't be successful. It's saying the model won't likely succeed in that area. Something you also found to be accurate.
The advice you gave is the same advice that every photographer here gave - enjoy what you're doing on a primarily TF* basis and maybe occasionally make some money.
By the way, the comment that photographers don't know anything about modeling might be the most asinine and short-sighted statement I've read in a while. Do you think Agency reps don't know models because they aren't a model themselves? They know about modeling and the industry because they know what the client wants. And that's the same insight and knowledge that many photographers have.
I'm sure it's not the case but those comments that photographers are "forcing" models to pose nude (in all caps no less) and your mention that photographers don't know anything about anything other than their photos, just make you sound bitter.
Edit: And fyi...5'3" isn't considered "petite." Small does not mean the model fits the category of petite modeling any more than overweight means the model is plus-size. See? You're a model and didn't know that and I'm a photographer who did. Ironic ha?
As for the OP, I've stated it before...I think you're lovely. No, you won't walk the runways but so what. You've only been doing this for a short time. Just enjoy what you're doing and don't set unreasonable expectations.
It's a hobby. It should be fun. If your hobby was playing guitar or painting or coin collecting would you expect anything to come from it other than just enjoying it?
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
Lee Dhepnorrarat wrote:
this is silly all these photographers quoting whether you will be successful or not, they know about photography not modelling. Hiring girls doesn't mean you know how they will be successful or not. You can't be serious. Please tell me you really don't think that. 
I would hazard a guess and say there are a more photographers around that really know more about modeling, than models do, and damn well can recognize talent.
Model
Sirensong
Posts: 2173
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
Well, on the plus side you are a good looking girl with a great figure, beautiful eyes..
The negative side is that internet work does tend to have far more work for models who work up to and including nude.
Now, this doesnt mean you have to do nudes to find paid work, more that you may find it more difficult to do so.
Fashion is going to be another more difficult one given your height but there is possibly the option of looking into reputable agencies who have a petite section..you are I think in range for that, it certainly wouldnt hurt to try
Work on making yourself stand out, what makes you special, your USP.
Mail photographers whose work you love and enquire about shoots on a tfp basis, a damned good port can go a long way to finding paid work down the line..
Most of all, have fun..
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1020
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Sirensong wrote:
Fashion is going to be another more difficult one given your height but there is possibly the option of looking into reputable agencies who have a petite section..you are I think in range for that No, the OP is NOT.
Fashion agencies don't sign girls who are 5'3".
"Petite" -- where it actually exists -- would be 5'8". Maybe 5'7", but that's really more in the range of the commercial market -- not fashion.
And while it wouldn't hurt to try - it would just be a big waste of time.
Unless you know how it works, don't say anything.
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
Sarah Louise Gater wrote:
I can't help but wonder if I'm wasting my time trying to model and if anything is actually going to come from it. Is it a slow moving process and do I just need more patience? Or am I really just wasting my time? If you have doubts, you're probably wasting your time.
If you expecting (or hoping) for overnight riches, you're probably wasting your time.
Contrary to popular belief, success actually y'know takes hard work.
Model
Sirensong
Posts: 2173
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
EMILY C wrote:
No, the OP is NOT.
Fashion agencies don't sign girls who are 5'3".
"Petite" -- where it actually exists -- would be 5'8". Maybe 5'7", but that's really more in the range of the commercial market -- not fashion.
And while it wouldn't hurt to try - it would just be a big waste of time.
Unless you know how it works, don't say anything. Actually I do
http://www.albamodel.info/petite.php
Model
Sarah Louise Gater
Posts: 313
Stoke-on-Trent, England, United Kingdom
Thank you everyone. I would do swimwear shoots and possibly lingerie, as I feel that those genres are in my comfort zone. I also agree that there are other types of modelling like hands/feet etc that I could do. But as I do enjoy seeing the photos and what I've given to a shoot I will continue looking for photographers willing to do TF. I will also take all of your advice on getting photographers attention more, giving more input and looking at portfolios that catch my eye you've all been very helpful!
Model
Rosemarie Bennet
Posts: 156
Southampton, Pennsylvania, US
K E E L I N G wrote:
Yes you should keep going if you enjoy shooting. If you don't enjoy it... quit. That is the only criteria a hobbyist should consider. This.
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 23575
Salem, Oregon, US
i've never forced anyone to do anything. with my models it's more likely they'll be upset with me when i make them wear clothes! each model is different. some do it for the money, some for the kicks, some to get out of the house for a while and away from the rug rats. we all have our reasons. but no one is forcing anyone to do anything. it's all voluntary and consensual (at least for my shoots and all the photographers i know). and it's not wrong to say that doing nudes is possibly one way to get paid around here. some photographers prefer to have a nude model even if they are doing clothed work. and i don't think i've ever known a photographer who paid more than gas money for a clothed model. i agree with the "do what your comfortable with" part. don't let anyone talk you into something you're not comfortable with. you have a right to say no. Lee Dhepnorrarat wrote:
All those FORCING GIRLS INTO NUDES, do so only so they can have a good look. You DON'T NEED TO DO THIS TO WORK. Do what your comfortable. All photographers saying she needs to do this I am talking to you.
Artist/Painter
Two Pears Studio
Posts: 3632
Wilmington, Delaware, US
Yes and no.
People hire models based on an aesthetic that they want to see come to life. If you don't have the visual qualities they look for, they wont hire you.
So if runway models are all standard size and height... unless you fit that you won't be hired.
If on mm non industry standard models don't get hired unless you go nude... again you are wasting your time.
If you have a niche or have a specific look and someone wants that.... well then you will be a success... It is about having what someone wants and being in the right position to deliver when they want it. Or selling them on the fact you are what they want.
my advice is look through a few hundred model ports and see if you have what it takes.
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1020
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Sirensong wrote:
Actually I do
http://www.albamodel.info/petite.php http://www.newmodels.com/height.html
"Petites"
As a rule, any agency or management company that advertises that they accept "petite" models is a scam. It's just one more marketing ploy that allows them to expand their potential base of victims. "Petite" fashion modeling is almost non-existent except at the very lowest levels of the industry, which pay very little.
When it does exist, "petite" fashion models aren't what most people might expect. In the fashion world, "petite" means "under 5'9" tall", and most of them are 5'7" to 5'8" tall. Sometimes shorter models get jobs as fit models, or in mall fashion shows, but there is very little opportunity in fashion modeling for "petites".
There is at least one current legitimate model agency in New York City that has a "petite" division - but it is a "commercial fashion/commercial print" agency - not a "high fashion" agency - and the girls are mostly commercial print oriented. Even in that agency, the majority of the "petite" models are 5'5" or over, and some are as tall as 5'8".
We cannot in good conscience suggest that a girl who does not meet the height standards for a fashion model spend a lot of time, effort and money pursuing that goal when the probabilities of success are so very low. She is better off pursuing some other kind of modeling that uses different standards. If the luck is going to strike, it can do so regardless of what else she is doing.
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 39248
Portland, Oregon, US
Sarah Louise Gater wrote:
I can't help but wonder if I'm wasting my time trying to model and if anything is actually going to come from it. Is it a slow moving process and do I just need more patience? Or am I really just wasting my time? I think you should go expand your comfort zone by shooting with Stefano a few times.
You might find it quite liberating and be pleasantly surprised.
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Get some great shots and make a nice photo album. 
