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first12
Photographer
Leighthenubian
Posts: 2,769
Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain


Let There Be Light wrote:

The first iPhone -- pre-Android -- cost $499 with no contract. Samsung has had such an impact on Apple pricing that the iPhone 5 sells for $649. What was your point again?

You really need it explained? don't read the news...follow the trends?

The first iPhone was pretty dumb compared to the current model which my wife has. Comparatively the 1st "smart phone" was pretty dumb when you look at the current king of the Android enabled heap. For crying out loud, the cameras on both phones are far ahead of a P&S camera from a few years ago.

I really don't follow where your logic is.

Mar 01 13 02:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Parsons
Posts: 972
Quincy, Massachusetts, US


Mar 01 13 02:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Smedley Whiplash
Posts: 17,279
Billings, Montana, US


Dan Howell wrote:
I love photographers vigorously defend copyright but turn right around and buy patent infringing merchandise from China because it's cheap.
AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
please sir, do tell us what PW patents were infringed?

That's what I was thinking...  even the ones I posted above maybe look like PW's, but they are at least 50-70% different (looking at the boatload of extra options available), and my guess is they don't use the same encoded frequency.

Mar 01 13 03:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10,529
Gatineau, Quebec, Canada


Smedley Whiplash wrote:

That's what I was thinking...  even the ones I posted above maybe look like PW's, but they are at least 50-70% different (looking at the boatload of extra options available), and my guess is they don't use the same encoded frequency.

even if it were a copy (and its not) it wouldnt be patent infringement.

Mar 01 13 04:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Parsons
Posts: 972
Quincy, Massachusetts, US


Smedley Whiplash wrote:

Dan Howell wrote:
I love photographers vigorously defend copyright but turn right around and buy patent infringing merchandise from China because it's cheap.

That's what I was thinking...  even the ones I posted above maybe look like PW's, but they are at least 50-70% different (looking at the boatload of extra options available), and my guess is they don't use the same encoded frequency.

The only one that I know of was the Phottix Atlas.  It was never sold in NA, and was the CE version.  PW sued for patent infringement because they used the same frequencies and were 100% compatible with PW.

Mar 01 13 04:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10,529
Gatineau, Quebec, Canada


David Parsons wrote:

The only one that I know of was the Phottix Atlas.  It was never sold in NA, and was the CE version.  PW sued for patent infringement because they used the same frequencies and were 100% compatible with PW.

yup and that one settled quietly.  Phottix removed that product from the market anyways. it had the annoying problem of having this innovative cool shoe on the side but if you used it, the antenna became horizontal and range dropped dramatically.  lol so much for product testing. it was about as dumb as not testing Viagra on seniors when it first came out and wondering why they were dying?
  but yeah, we all bought binders full of infringing merchandise here in North America tongue

Mar 01 13 04:44 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 10,157
Baltimore, Maryland, US


Who would buy $100 dumb tranceivers?

I would. Why? These would be my backup triggers, or for use when im not using my primary lights (im elinchrom, so skyports are my default primary trigger). I care about reliability over cost, to a point. No, I wouldnt buy a $300 PW for use as a dumb trigger, but a $99 one makes sense, especially when its actually made in the US. Im currently using an early gen of cheap radio triggers that are about 90% reliable.

However, this is a reactive move by PW. They could have come out with this product 2-3 years ago, but preferred to sell low-volume, high-margin triggers. There is no denying that cheaper, more feature-rich and highly reliable radio triggers can be had from several 'offshore' vendors.
Mar 02 13 04:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mask Photo
Posts: 1,396
Fremont, California, US


AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
clearly, they know my neighbours.  some times my wireless keyboard stops dead in its tracks

What you did there, I saw it.

Mar 02 13 04:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
2020 Photography
Posts: 440
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


Smedley Whiplash wrote:
They have to get serious.  Look what the competition is creating:  ($69 for a pair of transceivers)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100m-PT-04-LCD- … 3977254%26

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/100m-PT-04-LCD-3in1-Speedlight-Studio-Radio-Flash-Trigger-Camera-Remote-Control-/00/s/NjAwWDYwMA==/$T2eC16NHJF8E9nnC6H3YBQSD8ROkCQ~~60_3.JPG

These things look like the absolute pooh!  Has anyone actually used them and can tell us how well they work?

Here is a link to a set of Impact triggers sold by B&H under their private label.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/6 … Slave.html

Mar 02 13 07:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
robert christopher
Posts: 2,680
Snohomish, Washington, US


GPS Studio Services wrote:

The price of all electronics go down over time.  That is to be expected.  I think PW rode it as long as they could and had to release less expensive things just as camera makers have.  That doesn't mean they are losing money or are doing badly.  That means they react to a changing market.

Too little too late. Pw may hold the top end niche for quite a while but no business can afford to ignore such a large part of the business. I'll sell you my five pocket wizards plus ll cheap, three don't work. Have had to send in three to be repaired at $75 bucks each in the last  few years. Bought some cheap replacements while they were gone and never used the pw's again


Will never buy pw again no matter how cheap they are.

Pw's are in their death throws. Sat back too long,  like IBM, makita, American optical.

Mar 02 13 08:43 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
-JAY-
Posts: 6,423
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Robb Mann wrote:
Who would buy $100 dumb tranceivers?

I would. Why? These would be my backup triggers, or for use when im not using my primary lights (im elinchrom, so skyports are my default primary trigger). I care about reliability over cost, to a point. No, I wouldnt buy a $300 PW for use as a dumb trigger, but a $99 one makes sense, especially when its actually made in the US. Im currently using an early gen of cheap radio triggers that are about 90% reliable.

However, this is a reactive move by PW. They could have come out with this product 2-3 years ago, but preferred to sell low-volume, high-margin triggers. There is no denying that cheaper, more feature-rich and highly reliable radio triggers can be had from several 'offshore' vendors.

Why pay $100 for one dumb 433 trigger, when you can pay $30 for a pair of 2.4s that (in my experience, 30-40,000 fires) has been 100% reliable?

Mar 02 13 08:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Parsons
Posts: 972
Quincy, Massachusetts, US


-JAY- wrote:

Why pay $100 for one dumb 433 trigger, when you can pay $30 for a pair of 2.4s that (in my experience, 30-40,000 fires) has been 100% reliable?

Because you already have PW units that these will work with.  Because you have flashes and flashmeters that have PW modules in them.  There are many reasons.

Mar 02 13 10:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Let There Be Light
Posts: 7,657
Los Angeles, California, US


robert christopher wrote:
Pw's are in their death throws. Sat back too long,  like IBM, makita, American optical.

IBM in death throes?  It's the world's largest IT company and rated by Forbes as the 4th largest US company based on market cap. IBM only made $5.8 billion profit last quarter. Not bad for a dead company.

Mar 02 13 11:05 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 10,157
Baltimore, Maryland, US


-JAY- wrote:

Why pay $100 for one dumb 433 trigger, when you can pay $30 for a pair of 2.4s that (in my experience, 30-40,000 fires) has been 100% reliable?

Because I like to support US companies, US manufacturing and like having things 'Made in the USA' in my life.

Mar 03 13 12:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Smedley Whiplash
Posts: 17,279
Billings, Montana, US


2020 Photography wrote:
These things look like the absolute pooh!  Has anyone actually used them and can tell us how well they work?

Here is a link to a set of Impact triggers sold by B&H under their private label.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/6 … Slave.html

Hmmm... being that both are probably imported, and knowing what I've experienced with the physical contruction of plastic parts, I'd most likely never buy triggers that had dip switches, which also seem like they'd be slow to work with.

I'm not sure I can agree with your pooh assessment. They're probaby both pooh-ish compared to PW TT-5's, but I'm not gonna spend $225 each for radios that only need the dumb settings. Plus, your Impacts are not transceivers...  something which is remarkably handy for commercial location shoots.

I was shooting for a mining company and we were on a tight schedule. 12hrs in the mine, and no opportunity to leave it for any reason during the duration. The transciever I was using (different brand) started misfiring, so if I would have had traditional transmitter/reciever units I would have been screwed, wasting millions of dollars for the client who had scheduled mining operations around the shoot. Because I chose to bring transceivers, it was mere seconds of lost time.

Its far more important to bring the right kind of tools the job then a particular brand of tools. On that job, I had two different brands of radios, but chose the transciever version because of the unknown variables of mines (wet, humid, in-earth).

What I liked about the units I posted (I dont own any btw) is:

-price
-channel selection
-multiple wired connections
-in/out hotshoes
- ieee for firmware upgrades
- normal battery door
- 1/4 20 tripod mount

The PW dumb radios are somewhat featureless by comparison.

Mar 03 13 03:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Smedley Whiplash
Posts: 17,279
Billings, Montana, US


David Parsons wrote:

Because you already have PW units that these will work with.  Because you have flashes and flashmeters that have PW modules in them.  There are many reasons.

They dont need to work with them.  Most of these inexpensive tranceivers have a 3.5 jack that an optical slave can be plugged into, or even a direct connection via pass-through hotshoe, or 3.5 output to 3.5 input.

I frequently shoot 6-17 light setups with multiple radio trigger brands.

Mar 03 13 03:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Smedley Whiplash
Posts: 17,279
Billings, Montana, US


Robb Mann wrote:

Because I like to support US companies, US manufacturing and like having things 'Made in the USA' in my life.

My rebuttal:

The US doesnt make Audi or Lexus
The US doesnt make IPHONE'S (despite being an American company)
The US doesnt make Canon, Nikon,  or Sony

For whatever our reasons, we purposely dont engage ourselves making the best stuff, but some of us want the best, or the most efficient,  or the most versatile.  Robust is not enough anymore, when compared with enhanced functionality.

Mar 03 13 03:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10,529
Gatineau, Quebec, Canada


Smedley Whiplash wrote:

They dont need to work with them.  Most of these inexpensive tranceivers have a 3.5 jack that an optical slave can be plugged into, or even a direct connection via pass-through hotshoe, or 3.5 output to 3.5 input.

I frequently shoot 6-17 light setups with multiple radio trigger brands.

what works for you isnt necessarily for everyone.
Im no PW fanboy but you should take a step back and realize when you are arguing for nothing. sure it works for you.  you arent their mother. they can do whatever the fuck they want and what works for them.

Mar 03 13 03:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10,529
Gatineau, Quebec, Canada


Smedley Whiplash wrote:

My rebuttal:

The US doesnt make Audi or Lexus
The US doesnt make IPHONE'S (despite being an American company)
The US doesnt make Canon, Nikon,  or Sony

For whatever our reasons, we purposely dont engage ourselves making the best stuff, but some of us want the best, or the most efficient,  or the most versatile.  Robust is not enough anymore, when compared with enhanced functionality.

will you get over it? they didnt mention the car they drive. its irrelevant. its their fucking choice what they buy. are you that threatened if they dont go with what you say?
i dont have a single PW in the studio. do i care what others use?

Mar 03 13 03:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Smedley Whiplash
Posts: 17,279
Billings, Montana, US


AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:

will you get over it? they didnt mention the car they drive. its irrelevant. its their fucking choice what they buy. are you that threatened if they dont go with what you say?
i dont have a single PW in the studio. do i care what others use?

I believe this a hypothetical discussion of radio trigger possibilities/features, not specifically a take it or leave it introduction to $100 PW triggers.

How would anyone know what they want without a basis for comparison,  or a practical discussion of usage?

Rob Mann brought up the idea of supporting American brands, and I disagreed and provided a basis.

Whats the issue
? I could give a flying crap less what anybody buys lol

Mar 03 13 04:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MC Seoul Photography
Posts: 406
Seoul, Seoul, Korea (South)


I recently started using aputure wireless gear, their transceivers are about $34 on amazon (plus model) and work very well. Also function as shutter release on the camera, and have a PC sync port. Their latest transceivers, mark II support high voltage flashes.

If I had unlimited money, I'd probably buy something else, but price vs performance, quite satisfied.
Mar 03 13 06:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
faltered
Posts: 285
Los Angeles, California, US


I've used ebay triggers on two different occasions when i didn't have PW's and both occasions (different ebay triggers) they fired as they were supposed to and were reliable but I was getting a rainbow like noise pattern on the top of the image which was some sort of interference pattern i was told. when i got the PW's back it immediately stopped.
Mar 03 13 08:04 pm  Link  Quote 
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