Good Egg Productions wrote:
Yes.  If I'm paying someone to add to a series, I want specific bodies with specific requirements.  These things WOULD be important to me.  Now, that said, I probably would not be interested in paying a first time nude model for my series.

And THAT said, I have worked with first time nudes for my series for trade, and it's worked out really really well.

So you'd ask a new 18 year old nude model to send you close ups of her areas via a cell phone?

That sounds creepy!




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

JOEL McDONALD wrote:

That IS the flip side of the coin.

If it's a TF shoot then he can just book you and work with what you have.

Uhh, no. Someone should just suck it up, and shoot no matter what shows up underneath attire?

People lie......I got duped twice, it won't happen again, and TF, pay, they pay me has no bearing. I'm gonna know what I'm working with ahead of time, or I'm not going to book a shoot.

Small Fruit Pits wrote:
Uhh, no. Someone should just suck it up, and shoot no matter what shows up underneath attire?

People lie......I got duped twice, it won't happen again, and TF, pay, they pay me has no bearing. I'm gonna know what I'm working with ahead of time, or I'm not going to book a shoot.

Well then I guess you're not going to shoot with her.




I'd test with her up here, no cell pics required, not a big deal.




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:

It has all the red flags for me.

OP is young, just starting to do nudes and doesn't have any nudes up now. Photographer wants to be the first to see her, and getting cell phone pics is a way to do that.

I mean really, again, what would a cell phone show that could be of any real value? Do we really care about what her nipples look like, how long they are, if she has a big hohaa or what?




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

I can't find anywhere that the photographer said he wanted to be the first to see her, so it's not really a good idea to put words in his mouth,

As for what is shown in a cell phone pic. There are several things,
1. Proves that you are speaking to the model whose pictures you have seen (not uncommon)
2. That the portfolio pictures are somewhat current, and that there hasn't been any significant change in appearance, and that the photos are manipulated.
3. In this case the model has no revealing work at all, he may just want to make sure that shooting nudes isn't going to be an issue.

So it really doesn't have to be as nefarious as all that. The photographer is being upfront about planning a nude shoot, and upfront about wanting o see what he is booking.

Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:
You mean the part of my mind that want's nothing to do with a cell phone pic of a 18 year old new nude model 2 months before a shoot?

Huge red flags!


And again, what kind of detail would that picture have and how could it really impact a shoot that will happen in a few months? I do agree that the OP needs to have more mainstream industry standard bikini pics, but I can't see a need for any cell phone nudes.




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

At the same time, I don't see ANY nudes in your portfolio, so how often DO you look at cell phone nudes to know if they would be of any relevance or not.

You don't know anything about what they are talking about shooting and really can't have any way of knowing if there would be any need or not.

It should be quite obvious to anyone with your experience that bikini photos and nudes are very different things, and for someone looking to shoot nudes, bikini shots are not likely to be helpful.

Presuming the OP has checked the photographer's references, and they come back clean/positive, it seems rather unlikely that your assumption that he is just some creep who wants to see her nude first or shoot her nude first.

Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:

So you'd ask a new 18 year old nude model to send you close ups of her areas via a cell phone?

That sounds creepy!




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

I'm looking for the part where I said that.  Can't find it.


No.  I would ask that a model who does not have current nude photos of herself available, and who I was considering PAYING to do a nude shoot with me, to send me a full length shot, front/side/back, head not necessary so I don't have any surprises on the day of the shoot.

What part of this are you not getting?


And I've already stated that I likely wouldn't even work with a first time nude for pay.  You may want to make me look like a letch, but I approach a nude shoot like I approach any shoot.  I prefer to see what I will be working with before she steps on set.

Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:

Well then I guess you're not going to shoot with her.




I'd test with her up here, no cell pics required, not a big deal.

Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Exactly.

I can work with nearly anything. Women are beautiful regardless, it's just a matter of knowing how best to capture it with each.

DougBPhoto wrote:
At the same time, I don't see ANY nudes in your portfolio, so how often DO you look at cell phone nudes to know if they would be of any relevance or not.

You don't know anything about what they are talking about shooting and really can't have any way of knowing if there would be any need or not.

It should be quite obvious to anyone with your experience that bikini photos and nudes are very different things, and for someone looking to shoot nudes, bikini shots are not likely to be helpful.

Presuming the OP has checked the photographer's references, and they come back clean/positive, it seems rather unlikely that your assumption that he is just some creep who wants to see her nude first or shoot her nude first.

Again, I don't see why bikini pictures shouldn't work.

If anyone wants to judge our quality than I suggest they look at our personal websites and see for themselves.

www.andrewthomasevans.com
www.mplsnudes.com


if they want to see your work they can go to
http://dougbphoto.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31111748@N07/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/DougBPho … 6036396317


I'm not going to and have no interest in getting in a pissing match with you or others. If someone does want to weigh our replies based on image quality than (again) I suggest they check out our work and make up their own minds.


*image quality in the vein of the types of images we shoot, as the person I quoted suggested.




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:

So you'd ask a new 18 year old nude model to send you close ups of her areas via a cell phone?

That sounds creepy!




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Again, you seem to be going places that no one else in this thread is.

I'm sorry, but your posts are what are sending up red flags to me, not the OP's questions.

Good Egg Productions wrote:
And I've already stated that I likely wouldn't even work with a first time nude for pay.  You may want to make me look like a letch, but I approach a nude shoot like I approach any shoot.  I prefer to see what I will be working with before she steps on set.

I can usually work with just about anyone and make them look good/great. That's the stressful part about being a photographer. You never really know what client is going to walk through the door next and want images of themselves and want you to do it because they saw your work and love it. Granted, it's not always bad stress, and it's fun to be able to push myself and step up to the plate for my clients, but it's still in the background.

Which is why I don't see any reason in the cell phone pics. They would be terrible quality, wouldn't really show how well she posed, and to me wouldn't really have any value really.

If it was really important, and critical, then I'd want to setup a quick test shoot before the shoot to see how she posed, see how we would get along, and see how well she would work for the idea.



Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:

Plus if they are really that good then they still could plan something - it's not like they don't know her general stats - and the hone in the planning later once nudes are up or something.

IMO if I was doing a shoot with her I'd be more concerned with how well she posed, if she danced, or if she is flexible, long before I'd worry about any body features - unless she has a huge scar half the size of her leg or tattoos or something.


But I do think the OP should take some simple bikini pics of herself in a mirror and post those.




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

But you're missing another aspect of the request. If this were a model who already had images that portrayed her body, it would be a moot point. But this is a model who hasn't shown she's even willing to really perform that type of shoot. Sending an image not only gives the photographer an idea of what he's working with but also conveys that the model is serious about shooting that type of content. Until she's willing to perform the shoot or share the images, it's just talk.

And, as a photographer, I'm not going to schedule someone based on "what ifs" and "what might be's."

People are also commenting that scheduling 2 months out is a little shady. First, the model stated she wasn't even willing to shoot nudes until April (after she's already had a nude shoot with someone else). But how is it shady to plan ahead of time? Isn't the fact that he's scheduling that far out an indication that he's working?

I'd be more worried about someone who said, "Sure, let's shoot...I'm free tomorrow!"

Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:
I can usually work with just about anyone and make them look good/great. That's the stressful part about being a photographer. You never really know what client is going to walk through the door next and want images of themselves and want you to do it because they saw your work and love it. Granted, it's not always bad stress, and it's fun to be able to push myself and step up to the plate for my clients, but it's still in the background.

Which is why I don't see any reason in the cell phone pics. They would be terrible quality, wouldn't really show how well she posed, and to me wouldn't really have any value really.

If it was really important, and critical, then I'd want to setup a quick test shoot before the shoot to see how she posed, see how we would get along, and see how well she would work for the idea.



Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

So, if you were shooting a commercial product shot for a paying client you wouldn't want or request to see the product/packaging, etc. prior to the shoot?

Even the client would find that to be a little concerning.

And you're willing to expend a huge amount of time on a test shoot of a TF* shoot when sending a cell image takes 2 seconds. That doesn't sound very efficient to me at all.

It sounds like you have a lot of time to kill to have fun and experiment. Many don't have that luxury.

Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:
I'm not going to and have no interest in getting in a pissing match with you or others. If someone does want to weigh our replies based on image quality than (again) I suggest they check out our work and make up their own minds.




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Thank you for your unsolicited critique.

If it helps, I will defer to you and give you well deserved praise for coming up with the worst motivations and creepiest of thoughts expressed so far in the thread.

I apologize, and will defer to your clear expertise in the field of creepy thinking.

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
But you're missing another aspect of the request. If this were a model who already had images that portrayed her body, it would be a moot point. But this is a model who hasn't shown she's even willing to really perform that type of shoot. Sending an image not only gives the photographer an idea of what he's working with but also conveys that the model is serious about shooting that type of content. Until she's willing to perform the shoot or share the images, it's just talk.

And, as a photographer, I'm not going to schedule someone based on "what ifs" and "what might be's."

People are also commenting that scheduling 2 months out is a little shady. First, the model stated she wasn't even willing to shoot nudes until April (after she's already had a nude shoot with someone else). But how is it shady to plan ahead of time? Isn't the fact that he's scheduling that far out an indication that he's working?

I'd be more worried about someone who said, "Sure, let's shoot...I'm free tomorrow!"

Yes, and I agree with that, but I think that bikini pics or something more (because she doesn't have anything in her profile) would be better than sending some random photographer a nude pic.

I wonder if we're talking about Mr Robert Randall.




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

DougBPhoto wrote:
Thank you for your unsolicited critique.

If it helps, I will defer to you and give you well deserved praise for coming up with the worst motivations and creepiest of thoughts expressed so far in the thread.

I apologize, and will defer to your clear expertise in the field of creepy thinking.

Wasn't a crit at all. You suggested in your post that I don't know much because I don't shoot nudes. I do and have shot nudes, and provided a link to my work. I then suggested that if others want to weigh replies based on images we have shot then here are some links to do so. That's not a crit.

So I should have said "no red flags at all, the photographer is an upstanding citizen for asking this, and please do it as soon as possible."


Fuck that.




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:
I can usually work with just about anyone and make them look good/great. That's the stressful part about being a photographer. You never really know what client is going to walk through the door next and want images of themselves and want you to do it because they saw your work and love it. Granted, it's not always bad stress, and it's fun to be able to push myself and step up to the plate for my clients, but it's still in the background.

Which is why I don't see any reason in the cell phone pics. They would be terrible quality, wouldn't really show how well she posed, and to me wouldn't really have any value really.

If it was really important, and critical, then I'd want to setup a quick test shoot before the shoot to see how she posed, see how we would get along, and see how well she would work for the idea.



Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

And there's your problem.

You're seeing this from a client side issue.  In the OP, she said that this would be a paid shoot.  You're suggesting that you can work with anyone, sight unseen, and make them look good.  That implies that they're coming to you, possibly with money in hand and it's your job to do your job.

I'm saying that if *I* am paying monies to someone for a personal project for ME, then I get to pick exactly the people that I pay to do that job.  And if part of that requirement is that I need to have someone with perfectly shaped breasts or labia that don't protrude too much, then that's my requirement.  And I will not agree to pay a rate for something that I have not seen.

Would you buy a pair of $200 pants without trying them on?  Or shoes?

**ETA**  Actually, I don't see in the OP if it is paid or not, but it was my understanding that this photographer would be paying the model.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:

I'm not going to and have no interest in getting in a pissing match with you or others. If someone does want to weigh our replies based on image quality than (again) I suggest they check out our work and make up their own minds.

Dude, seriously?

I'm not gonna entertain you anymore in this thread, but you do have a tendency/history to do just that.

Good Egg Productions wrote:
I'm saying that if *I* am paying monies to someone for a personal project for ME, then I get to pick exactly the people that I pay to do that job.  And if part of that requirement is that I need to have someone with perfectly shaped breasts or labia that don't protrude too much, then that's my requirement.  And I will not agree to pay a rate for something that I have not seen.

I can see the breasts, but labia, really? How close are the closeups?




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:

I can see the breasts, but labia, really? How close are the closeups?




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

I've already told you.  Full body. Front/side/back.  The work I do is not closeup.  So if I see something I don't like in full body shots, I'll see something I don't like in the work I do.

It is relevant to me.  It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with it.

Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:
I can see the breasts, but labia, really? How close are the closeups?




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

As close as he wants if he's paying lol.

But you're viewing this as if nudity is some big deal. I don't view it like that..."OMG he wants to see a nude image!"

What if a model had a portfolio of images where her facial features weren't clear? Would it be out of line to ask to see a headshot? What if I don't want a model who has a big nose? Or "squinty" eyes? or thin lips? If I'm paying, isn't that my prerogative? Certainly nobody would question wanting to see the facial features of a model they're paying to shoot portraits?

Why is wanting to view the model's body parts so off limits if you're paying her to shoot nude? Am I a creep if I'm paying a nude model and I don't want to hire someone with sagging breasts, softball-sized, dark brown areola, or an excessively hairy bush?

JOEL McDONALD wrote:

Exactly.

I can work with nearly anything. Women are beautiful regardless, it's just a matter of knowing how best to capture it with each.

There are certain projects I work on that require different things. Such as small breasts or large breasts or shaved or un-shaved pubic area.

Editing comes before you take the photos! Which makes later editing much faster and easier. You know what you have in your head, and you want to get as close to it as possible.

Isis22 wrote:
How does knowing what your body looks like help him "plan" for the shoot? He already has your measurements and a general idea of your body type from the pics that you do have posted.

I would really trust your gut to see if this is a reasonable request. The fact that he said he wanted them today might be seen as pressure. I don't like demands.

How does seeing your facial features help someone plan for a portrait session?

Isis22 wrote:
How does knowing what your body looks like help him "plan" for the shoot? He already has your measurements and a general idea of your body type from the pics that you do have posted.

I would really trust your gut to see if this is a reasonable request. The fact that he said he wanted them today might be seen as pressure. I don't like demands.

He didn't demand the images be sent to him today. He wanted a "today" photo. Meaning it was taken at the present time vs. 3 months ago. Meaning he wants to see what she looks like now.

Danielle Hieronimi wrote:
Is it normal practice for a photographer to request a cell phone picture prior to a nude shoot?

I'm planning on working with a photographer I like in two months, and he requested I send him a nude cell phone picture today, so he can see what my body looks like for him to plan the shoot. He said that the pictures would be deleted a few minutes after receiving them.

I just want a consensus as to whether this is normal practice, and I should do this or not?

Thank you!

To try to get back to your original question.

I would be more concerned about you having checked the photographer's references and vetted him with other models that he has worked with.

The question, taken alone and out of context, *could* be creepy OR it *could* be totally legitimate, BUT the only way to determine which is on context and the specific individual that you're working with.

Based on what you've shared, I'm not going to jump to conclusions and assumptions and scream "red flag, red flag", because none of us are actually parties to what is being discussed, nor do we know anything about the photographer being discussed, or their possible or their actual intentions.

For a model who has no work like this posted, asking to see what you look like nude seems perfectly reasonable and legitimate.

I think it is the "cell phone" issue where people are getting hung up (pun intended) because of their reputation for crappy photos (which isn't always the case) and people's dirty little minds.

The cell phone idea/suggestion might also be simply be the modern-day/poor-man's Polaroid.  Quick, easy, no retouching, as seen by the camera image.

It could simply be that a cell phone photo is/was thought to be the easiest, least intrusive method of sharing what you look like nude, and for a nude shoot, that seems totally reasonable and legitimate.

People with creepy motivations can use a legitimate/"normal practice" thing for creepy intentions, while someone else could request or do the same exact thing with there being nothing wrong with it at all.

Ultimately Danielle, you need to be able to evaluate and judge a photographer's motivations (which is why reference checking and talking to other models helps), regardless of whether something is "normal practice" or not.

Michael Pandolfo wrote:

He didn't demand the images be sent to him today. He wanted a "today" photo. Meaning it was taken at the present time vs. 3 months ago. Meaning he wants to see what she looks like now.

He did in fact ask for a photo today. Come on, she doesn't have nude photos from 3 months ago and he knows this.

I don't get hired for my face, I get hired for my body. At any rate, the face is not the issue and all our faces are clearly posted in our ports.

RKD Photographic wrote:

Perhaps the OP was being 'creative' with her DoB when signing up for MM...?
Not that I'm saying this is the case, but usually when models defer nude shoots until after a specific date, it's for reasons of legal-age requirement.

Maybe not but.....a pretty reasonable assumption.

Isis22 wrote:
At any rate, the face is not the issue and all our faces are clearly posted in our ports.

You missed the point. IF your face was not clearly visible in your portfolio would you find it creepy that a photographer asked you to send him a current headshot if he was planning on paying you for an upcoming portrait session?

If you find that hard to imagine, there is a model who is very active in the forums who up until very recently had no images that showed her face. If someone wanted to actually take photos of her face, would it be creepy to request to see it?

Danielle Hieronimi wrote:
Is it normal practice for a photographer to request a cell phone picture prior to a nude shoot?

I'm planning on working with a photographer I like in two months, and he requested I send him a nude cell phone picture today, so he can see what my body looks like for him to plan the shoot. He said that the pictures would be deleted a few minutes after receiving them.

I just want a consensus as to whether this is normal practice, and I should do this or not?

Thank you!

This degenerated into such drama so quickly that I think you may not have useful information to help you understand why you felt that it was questionable and under which circumstances your situation would be a red flag versus it being a reasonable request.

To start with, I don't think you have provided enough information for anyone to know if it was, in fact, a non-legitimate request. We only know that someone requested cell phone pictures to see what you looked like nude prior to a nude shoot. That, in and of itself, is legitimate, although the timing and what has transpired prior to that request may make it more or less reasonable.

For example, if you got a request in your inbox and the first thing the person says is, "I want to hire you for a nude shoot but you don't have any nude photos in your portfolio so could you please shoot a nude photo with your cell phone and send it to my cell phone at xxx-555-1212. I will delete it immediately, etc. etc." THAT would be a red flag to me, although it would still depend on the photographer.

On the other hand, if a photographer was discussing booking you for a shoot, and the shoot included shooting nudes, and the photographer asked if you had nudes he could review to see if you were appropriate for what he needed, and you said no, and he said could you upload one somewhere for him to review, and you said you didn't want to at this time, and then he said, well how about you take a nude cell phone picture and send it to his phone and he will delete it after reviewing it... That would not raise any flags for me.

What you have to include in your thought process is, does it seem like someone who ONLY wants to see you naked or is it someone who shoots nudes and has them in their port who would likely need to see what they are going to be working with?

As others have pointed out, you really should get some "polaroids" that you can direct photographers to in the future.

C h a r l e s  D wrote:
If the photographer is going to hire you for nudes, and you don't have any nudes to view in your portfolio, it is not an unreasonable request.  I don't like surprises when hiring nude models.

True, maybe? But he won't delete them!

RKD Photographic wrote:
Perhaps the OP was being 'creative' with her DoB when signing up for MM...?
Not that I'm saying this is the case, but usually when models defer nude shoots until after a specific date, it's for reasons of legal-age requirement.

Small Fruit Pits wrote:
Maybe not but.....a pretty reasonable assumption.

She has an availability notice in her profile where she says that she is waiting until she gets a tan at the end of March before doing skin-baring [edit: specifically swimwear] shots. Which art nude photographers may not like.

London Fog wrote:

True, maybe? But he won't delete them!

He won't or you wouldn't?

London Fog wrote:
True, maybe? But he won't delete them!

With this bad of reaction to a photographer wanting a current nude image, I can't imagine how bad it must be for blind photographers needing to review their subjects in advance by braille.