|
Forums >
Model Colloquy >
TFP or paid shoot?
Hello, I'm a fairly new model and I would like some advice. I have done several TFP shoots for portfolio building purposes and I have also done two paid shoots. Well, last night I got a message asking if I'd want to do another TFP shoot. However, this shoot is 2 hours from my home and they want me to work for four hours. It sounds like a fun shoot, but to me that sounds like a lot to expect out of me for something I won't get paid for. So, my question is, should I ask for payment for this, if so what's a good rate, and how do I go about asking that appropriately? He did say he'd pay 30$ for gas, but come on.. 30$ for a two hour drive? Not to mention getting back home. I feel like I'll be taking a loss (money wise) if I accept this as just a TFP. So what are your thoughts? Mar 29 13 07:55 am Link For me, I base my decision to do TF work on the photographers port. When I look at their port, do I see any photos that I wish I was the model in, that I'd like to see in my port? If yes I do it, if not, I ask for pay or decline their offer to shoot TF. It sounds like you have already decided that the photographers port is not strong enough to do this as TF. $30 for gas would almost fill my tank. If I was offered $30 for gas, from a photographer with a strong port, I would find that fair. Money for gas is not the same as money for your time. Mar 29 13 08:06 am Link Will the images improve your portfolio? The answer to this question really depends on what the shoot is worth to you. For good images, a 2 hour drive isn't that bad-- even if you WERE footing the cost of gas. It's definitely worth it if you're not. For potentially beneficial images, I'd say the drive is still worth it. And the $30 is to cover your gas-- not your driving time. It might not be enough for my car (I drive a 1990 camaro), but for most it should be plenty. For images you don't think will benefit you, I'd say that you aren't interested in trade with that amount of travel right now. If he asks your rates, I'd do a flat rate that included travel. 4 hours is a half day, and since you have limited experience, I'd *personally* in your shoes charge something like $75-$100 including travel. Mar 29 13 08:13 am Link Personally, I think it's kind of tacky to request pay when offered TF. If you feel the travel makes a TF shoot not worth your while, I'd just politely say exactly that. If the photographer is willing to pay, he may come back at you with a paid offer. Only you can decide what the value of the images is from a TF shoot and whether or not those images are worth your travel and time. Mar 29 13 08:16 am Link Abbitt Photography wrote: Agreed on this. Mar 29 13 08:18 am Link If you feel the photographers work won't benefit your portfolio by all means send him your rates, just don't expect him to accept it. Actually $30 is quite fair for traveling costs. Mar 29 13 08:25 am Link Yep, as stated above, you just need to decide if the shoot will gain you usable images in a style you'd like to pursue . . . TF is supposed to be a barter like way for both parties to create images that benefit each of them, so it's not really like you're loosing money, you're just trading your time for theirs . . . now, how soon can ya drive to Florida, so we can do some shootin' . . .  Best of luck, hope things go well for you . . . SOS Mar 29 13 08:25 am Link Re-iteration I am sure, but the concept of TFP is to benefit both (or all) parties including MUA, Hair Stylist etc. Of course that is in a perfect world. What I tell models, is that when you feel your port is of the quality where you do not need any more looks (after all your port is an advertisement for you), then you should start refusing TFP or at least limiting it based on whether it will fill a need for you or give you new images to further sharpen up your port. I agree as well, the distance and all is worth it if you feel the images will benefit you, but if not, that is outside the realm of TFP and understandable not to at least ask for travel expenses (at least gas). Again, the decision boils down to you. Like a pizza menu, if all the pizzas look yummy, you are ready to make a more logical decision on whether or not you need to add more pizza to the menu. Of course I do not think models are really pizzas, that would be silly, but it's the best analogy I can come up with after just waking up. Mar 29 13 08:34 am Link Kora Alexandra Wilkes wrote: It costs me about $30-$35 to my moms and back which is 2 1/2 hours each way. So basically, he's paying you nearly the exact amount of the gas you would use during the trip. That doesn't factor in your time and wear and tear on the vehicle. I would probably pass unless I happen to be in the area. It depends on how badly you want the shoot. Mar 29 13 09:22 am Link Kora Alexandra Wilkes wrote: If the images you're likely to receive are not worth the cost of obtaining them, then don't agree to the shoot. Mar 29 13 09:59 am Link it's a negotiation. the current offer is $30 for the entire shoot. if it's not an acceptable offer you have 3 choices: * say "no thanks" * say nothing * respond with a counter-offer of what you need to make it worth your while only you can decide if it's worth it. i had a model and her mom drive 3.5 hours to shoot with us on trade but we did have one of the best MUAs onboard. $30 is normally what i offer when i'm covering traveling costs. maybe it's just for gas but at least it's something. Mar 29 13 10:05 am Link K I C K H A M wrote: Exactly right, myself I have spent hundreds just producing a single image for my portfolio and have some that we're next to nothing (it's never really free). So what is it worth to you. Mar 29 13 10:18 am Link Well look i say if you gonna do a two hour drive you should get paid atleast $80 but like every one said check his profile and see if thats what you wanna shoot.. If you like their work maybe its something to sacrifice.. Mar 29 13 10:18 am Link While this is primarily a hobby for most people involved in the beginning, I think everything is a business decision. If you need more quality images for your port and you like the photographer's style, that's a valuable benefit. TF arrangements should be mutually beneficial. If you personally feel like the photographer is getting the majority of the benefit, then payment could be in order. Mar 29 13 10:40 am Link If you aren't super stoked for it don't do it. Trade for things that you really need in your port. Charge for everything else. Send an offer. If they say no, they say no. Move on to the next offer. Mar 29 13 11:07 pm Link First off your 16 years old what are you doing takeing offers to do shoots without the concent of your parents. Also who would want to shoot a teen who lives such a long distance as you to the photographers location. $30.00 or any amount at your age is not worth the trouble of what a Creep can do to you. Dont do it. Mar 29 13 11:16 pm Link K I C K H A M wrote: Are you aware this girl is only 16 years old. And is not even concern if her parents are involved in this shoot. Mar 29 13 11:18 pm Link Bravo Magic Images wrote: QFT. OP, do NOT drive 2 hours to shoot with someone without your parents along. Who will sign the model release and/or usage license? you can't do it. If it's someone who doesn't use paperwork, i'd be even more cautious. You'll want someone there who's of legal age and responsible for you since these issues can be complex. Mar 30 13 03:31 am Link Usually, If I am doing a TF shoot with a model and she comes to my location then I will offer her a reasonable amount for fuel. It all depends on the photographer. If I am going to her location I do not ask for fuel expenses. The model must remember that the photographer has perhaps invested thousands of dollars in photography equipment which he does not recoup any monetary amount that he has invested. Mar 30 13 03:46 am Link K I C K H A M wrote: This. I've considered a $2500.00 plane ticket for awesome images with a photographer who has phenomenal connections. Mar 30 13 04:31 am Link Depends on the supply and demand. If you have lots of other offers with good photographers stay home. If you don't, then consider doing it for the experience depending on his portfolio. Also, if you do, bring a parent! Mar 30 13 04:53 am Link Bravo Magic Images wrote: Well, while I didn't notice that, her parents COULD be involved, we don't know either way. Mar 30 13 06:47 am Link Bravo Magic Images wrote: Where did you get this from? Mar 30 13 06:49 am Link Why not just explain the situation (maybe that you'd be interested in it as a TF* shoot) but the traveling 2 hours without travel compensation gives you pause? Mar 30 13 07:50 am Link Kora Alexandra Wilkes wrote: You also have to consider what else you might be doing with your time. Do you have other offers for TFP that are closer? Do you have other paid work that you cold take? Would this preclude you from engaging in some other activity that you really want to do? Basically do you have anything better to do? You may do it to just to keep shooting. It is said that you don't become any good at anything until you have been at it for a couple thousand hours. Mar 30 13 11:34 am Link Kora Alexandra Wilkes wrote: It's only too much to be expected to do without payment (money) if you're not getting any payoff from the images either. Mar 30 13 12:12 pm Link Kora Alexandra Wilkes wrote: It is your judgment call! Is it worth it.. if not say so... A simple yes or no should tell the story.;. Mar 30 13 12:20 pm Link Bravo Magic Images wrote: Most commercial and fashion models are under 18. If the photographer in question is shooting portraits, fashion, commercial, or lifestyle photos, shooting a 16 year old is perfectly normal. Mar 30 13 12:52 pm Link TF is as important as paid (for me). TF is an investment that leads to money by giving me images that I can sell myself with. Of course, this is under the assumption the TF shoot will give significantly stronger images than what is currently had. So if the TF shoot is worth it, do it. If you don't feel it's worth it, skip out on it. If you can't afford the gas but still want to do the TF shoot, mention it to the photographer and see if you can't get a tenner or something tossed your way to help cover costs. Maybe try booking a paid shoot in the same area instead of asking the TF photographer if you are worried about offending them, etc. Lot of different things you can do...  Edit: I've driven over 12+ hours round trip and flown to a totally different state on top of that for TFP, so IMO, no distance is too far...! Just depends on the person and circumstances Mar 30 13 03:30 pm Link Good images would easily be worth a 2 hour drive or more (I think nearly every full-time model would agree with this). If his portfolio is good, do the shoot. If his portfolio is mediocre or below that, say no. Easy decision, I would think. Mar 30 13 07:13 pm Link Kora Alexandra Wilkes wrote: I've had several models travel about four hours one way for a trade shoot with me, two hours is normal. Some come farther. The farthest I've gone for a trade shoot is 1700 miles round trip. It depends on what the benefits are, and whether you can afford it. Apr 01 13 08:25 pm Link I will offer $30-40 for gas for a TF shoot I want if the model is traveling more than 100 miles one way. I consider it just a matter of fairness. Apr 02 13 06:34 pm Link I frequently travel to Minneapolis and Kansas City to shoot, as my work schedule allows, which are 3-4 hours each way, and I can't always book paid shoots at the same time as my trade shoots, but I'm pretty cool with that. Apr 02 13 09:45 pm Link Kora Alexandra Wilkes wrote: Ive had llamas that travelled that kind of distance and spent all day with me much less 4 hours at payment of images. That being said they felt as though the shoot was worth that time. If you really want to do the shoot and its something that will benefit you despite it being TF do it for the images, if you feel as though its not worth it to you...then ask for the fee that makes it worth your time and see if they are willing to pay it. A good rate is one someone is willing to pay no matter how high or low it is. Apr 02 13 10:22 pm Link The op should ask herself ' what makes a good model '. And 'what skills do I have '. The op needs to prove herself before she can ask for any pay. Apr 03 13 05:13 am Link Kora Alexandra Wilkes wrote: It depends on how famous he is as a photographer and how important his photos are to you. Apr 03 13 05:20 am Link Kora Alexandra Wilkes wrote: I pick up on the fact that you are 16, is this true....does the photographer know this. Apr 03 13 05:22 am Link Bravo Magic Images wrote: I shot an (almost) 16 year old who came about four hours one way to the shoot. She brought her mother, or rather her mother brought her, and I wouldn't have dreamed of doing it otherwise. Most of the planning was with the mother, and the whole shoot was very innocent, although I did do a swimsuit image: Apr 03 13 06:55 am Link |
