Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6427
Los Angeles, California, US
![https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0gztVARzR4w/UYys4vIdTbI/AAAAAAAAAF0/fBPrrX_g3cU/s640/hasselblad_lunar_bottom.jpg]() Full review hear: http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com/20 … eview.html The Lunar will be out in about 10 days.. but made in Sweden... really. Are there not some rules about substantial country of origin. Nothing against Made in Japan. It does not get much better than made in Japan. At least when Hasselblad re branded the X-pan it still said made in japan.
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6427
Los Angeles, California, US
On another note while Hasselblad is busy pimping up the Nex Carl Zeiss is actually working on a product to make the Nex more of a luxury camera. A set of lenses for the NEX and for the Fuji X-mount. ![https://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj524/picrumors/856838_573868725956705_1099569543_o_zps1d0781cc.jpg]()
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 12327
Baltimore, Maryland, US
Photographer
Digitoxin
Posts: 13456
Denver, Colorado, US
I think that there would be a very interesting harvard business case study written about both Hassy and Leica. Two revered brands owned by small companies both under threat and a set of stretegic management decisions needed. One seems to have been successful. One seems comical.
A brand centric strategic marketing case would be a terrific read.
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 12327
Baltimore, Maryland, US
Hey look! Someone made a kit to convert a Nikon D5200 into a lunar look-alike!!! ![https://nikonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Nikon-D5200-silicone-sleeve.jpg]() [disclaimer] I truly hate the Lunar camera. I hate the way Hassey originally marketed the camera ("uncompromised quality"), the weak and cheaply executed product 'design', etc, etc. Hassy is currently owned by a venture-capital firm, and they obviously know nothing about photography. The icing on the cake is that the NEX-7 guts in this abomination will have been super ceded by the upgraded NEX-7n by the time the Lunar ships. The Lunar is nothing more than a oversized camera condom wrapped around a NEX-7, thus making a compact and light camera heavy and bulky -and negating any benefit of a mirror less camera. [/rant].
Photographer
liddellphoto
Posts: 1801
London, England, United Kingdom
Digitoxin wrote:
I think that there would be a very interesting harvard business case study written about both Hassy and Leica. Two revered brands owned by small companies both under threat and a set of stretegic management decisions needed. One seems to have been successful. One seems comical.
A brand centric strategic marketing case would be a terrific read. I agree. I think it is a case of hassy totally misunderstanding the world of luxury branding and products but leica learning fast and executing it very well. Hassy dumping the V series was equally a totally stupid move, killing off the icon and link to the hassy legacy. This is exactly why I am sure leica I am will never dump the rangefinder.
A great read on this: The Luxury Strategy: Break the Rules of Marketing to Build Luxury Brands
Photographer
Bob Helm Photography
Posts: 18905
Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US
Country of origin is determined where the majority of the value is added.
For example the majority of the parts for a Leica M6 were made in Portugal and shipped to Germany. The only thing done in Germany was the build and assembly of the rangefinder unit and final assembly and Leica said that was 51% of the value so it was made in Germany. I would guess Hassy is doing whatever creative math is needed to get the result it wants
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 3436
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan
I sincerely hope it won't be made in Japan!
Swedish manufacturing can't feed a larger market, so either it will be a luxury item or it will be made in huge amounts in China.
And it's about time Zeiss came up with a digital Icon equivalent! Just fingers crossed it won't be an APS-C...
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6427
Los Angeles, California, US
The made in Sweden label on the Lunar makes one wonder about the made in Sweden label on the Hasselblad H system.
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6427
Los Angeles, California, US
R.EYE.R wrote:
I sincerely hope it won't be made in Japan!
Swedish manufacturing can't feed a larger market, so either it will be a luxury item or it will be made in huge amounts in China.
And it's about time Zeiss came up with a digital Icon equivalent! Just fingers crossed it won't be an APS-C... If it were not so damn ugly I think that someone in China would come up with a knockoff shell to pimp up your own Nex7 and do it for pennies... would be usefull for thoise fancy dress parties
Photographer
Vector One Photography
Posts: 3722
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
They had to do something with the factory in Sweden.
I bet Victor is turning in his grave...............
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6427
Los Angeles, California, US
liddellphoto wrote:
I agree. I think it is a case of hassy totally misunderstanding the world of luxury branding and products but leica learning fast and executing it very well.
..... It apears that Hasselblad management has no idea of the Luxury world.
First problem is they think that their brand has some sort of broad value.
Outside of pro photography and serious enthusiasts it has virtually no recognition.
There past special edition Ferrari version only worked because of the Ferrari name.
Leica on the other hand understands luxury quite well and it's special luxury editions
had far more depth to them.
Just look at the Hermes edition of the Leica M.
http://youtu.be/AL7j-wzNhxM
Jean-Louis Dumas the Founder and Artistic director of Hermes had been an avid and skilled photographer for many years with a passion for his Leica. This led him to aproach Leica about making a special edition together that would be sold in a limited edition series with a beautiful book of photography by Jean-Louis Dumas
himself. A very elegant and subtle redesign of the body. A different matt silver finish.
The non special edition Leica equivalent costs about $30,000.
The Hermes special edition with the redesign of the body and lenses $50,000.
Whiole that my apear to be a very large markup it is of more substantial value than the Hasselblad plastic steampunk junk.
A dealer can credibly endorse the Hermes edition in that it's construction is state of the art and it comes with the design of a high fashion icon and Jean-Louis Dumas' eye through his Leica with images from his travel and the history of his family.
In comparison how is a dealer going to endorse the Hasselblad Lunar when the customer will soon find out it is pimped out NEX 7...... either because the plastic junk falls off or the customer bumps into a NEX 7 enthusiast.....
It looks like Hasselblad is going to try to sell this through places like Harrods and Selfridges. I think legitimate camera stores wil not be too comfortable carrying this product, especially if they have Sonys on the shelf a few feet away.
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 12221
Los Angeles, California, US
I can't imagine that this kind of thing wouldn't erode the credibility of the Hasselblad brand, progressively impacting the adoption/sales of their H systems.
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
Fred Greissing wrote:
It apears that Hasselblad management has no idea of the Luxury world.
First problem is they think that their brand has some sort of broad value.
Outside of pro photography and serious enthusiasts it has virtually no recognition.
There past special edition Ferrari version only worked because of the Ferrari name.
Leica on the other hand understands luxury quite well and it's special luxury editions
had far more depth to them.
Just look at the Hermes edition of the Leica M.
http://youtu.be/AL7j-wzNhxM +1. Well said.
I'm sure many will criticize that Leica product by its very existence. But, cmon, if we're talking luxury edition...THAT is how you do it. White Gloves and all. That is breathtaking.
Hassy seems lost and floundering with each new offering in this category.
Photographer
Longwatcher
Posts: 3664
Newport News, Virginia, US
The only "lunar" Hasselblad I will ever own (and do). ![https://www.longwatcher.com/images/Special/LWI_NA_Hassy_Side.jpg]() Just remember, Ford had a half decade of crappy designs, culminating in the "Think" and a crappy looking version of the "Taurus", they either had a stern talking to their design team or fired them, but they have done a much better job since then. So maybe Hassy has a crappy design team right now, they might get better (although in this case I wouldn't bet on it).
Photographer
Jason Haven
Posts: 38381
Washington, District of Columbia, US
I don't understand the Lunar.
It's not even the body that bothers me; the NEX is a good base, imo. But Hasselblad needs to release some lenses, instead of slapping Sony kit lenses on the thing. NEX bodies are plenty capable, as are their sensors, but the glass... oi.
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 3436
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan
Fred Greissing wrote:
If it were not so damn ugly I think that someone in China would come up with a knockoff shell to pimp up your own Nex7 and do it for pennies... would be usefull for thoise fancy dress parties Isn't it?!
First thoughts when I saw the announcement from Photokina were "What were they smoking?" and "Where can I get some of it?"
Photographer
Jim McSmith
Posts: 794
Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hasselblad need to concentrate on digital backs and forget this monstrosity.
Photographer
Alien LiFe
Posts: 934
San Jose, California, US
Fred Greissing wrote:
On another note while Hasselblad is busy pimping up the Nex
Carl Zeiss is actually working on a product to make the Nex
more of a luxury camera. A set of lenses for the NEX and for the Fuji X-mount.
![https://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj524/picrumors/856838_573868725956705_1099569543_o_zps1d0781cc.jpg]() Hmm ... those lenses are awesome looking ... 
Now let see if they are really a 'match in heaven' with Fuji X series body ... I might trade my Nikon system for it ...
Photographer
Dan Howell
Posts: 3560
Kerhonkson, New York, US
ASYLUM - Photo wrote:
I don't understand the Lunar.
It's not even the body that bothers me; the NEX is a good base, imo. But Hasselblad needs to release some lenses, instead of slapping Sony kit lenses on the thing. NEX bodies are plenty capable, as are their sensors, but the glass... oi. guess you missed this:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/04/30 … -x-cameras
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 3436
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan
Actually, so far best alternative for NEX glass was to slap widely available Contax-G Zeiss lenses on them.
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6427
Los Angeles, California, US
Jim McSmith wrote:
Hasselblad need to concentrate on digital backs and forget this monstrosity. They are having trouble with that to.
The new H5D new feature list:
More accurate focusing with True Focus II ( but still one focusing point and still only detects angle change not axial movement)
New Immediate Focus Confirm (100% magnification in review mode with one click)
New print ready Jpeg files ( now also saves jpegs... didn't before )
New compressed multi-shot RAW files for faster and smoother workflow ( only with multi shot backs so does not apply to the normal backs)
New Camera Configurator ( fancy name for a menu)
Larger and more ergonomic buttons
Larger, easier to read display style
Updated Graphics User Interface
More programmable buttons
New and improved weather sealing
New and faster processors implementing Hasselblad Image Processing Architecture( but jpegs are only 1/4 res)
Same sensors as the H4D. No ISo improvent no dynamic range improvement
Still no vertical grip
Still only firewire
No way to use wireless
Did get a nice new paint job.
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 12327
Baltimore, Maryland, US
Fred Greissing wrote:
![https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0gztVARzR4w/UYys4vIdTbI/AAAAAAAAAF0/fBPrrX_g3cU/s640/hasselblad_lunar_bottom.jpg]()
Full review hear:
http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com/20 … eview.html
The Lunar will be out in about 10 days.. but made in Sweden... really.
Are there not some rules about substantial country of origin.
Nothing against Made in Japan. It does not get much better than made in Japan.
At least when Hasselblad re branded the X-pan it still said made in japan. Funny thing is I'm sure the battery door is made in Japan, or China. Still, full retail of a Nex-7 with kit lens is $1100. Lunar is what, about $5k? So the leather camera skin and wooden battery grip are 'adding' nearly $4k in value? Oh, i forgot the two plastic-looking Titanium buttons, those are likely $500 apeice.
So yea, most of the total 'value' of the camera is added in Sweden.
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6427
Los Angeles, California, US
Robb Mann wrote:
Funny thing is I'm sure the battery door is made in Japan, or China. Still, full retail of a Nex-7 with kit lens is $1100. Lunar is what, about $5k? So the leather camera skin and wooden battery grip are 'adding' nearly $4k in value? Oh, i forgot the two plastic-looking Titanium buttons, those are likely $500 apeice.
So yea, most of the total 'value' of the camera is added in Sweden. I guess it all depends on the term "substantial".
Hasselblad has been an assembler for many years.
They could not get electronic V system right and needed Fuji on the other side of the world to be able to make the H system. Hasselblad never made the lenses of the V system or the H system.
No substantial improvements in the Hasselblad H system so you won't see Hasselblad turn profitable thanks to the H system. The Lunar is a feeble attempt
to turn Hasselblad profitable. Sadly it looks like it won't work.
The real problem for MF manufactures is the diminishing IQ difference between
high end 35mm DSLRs and MF DSLRs.
Here is an example.
These are two crops form a Nikon d800 and a Hasselblad H4D40
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum … 4261;image
There really is no difference.
The real differences are price and usability.
Nikon
D800 and 90mm macro $ 3,700
Hasselblad 40MP and 120mm macro $25,000
That is a $21,300 difference.
That's just too much of a difference.
What is worse is the used market.
The value of used MF gear, especially recent top of the line gear is not good.
Resale loss is much higher than with recent popular 35mm DSLR gear.
Lenses in particular.
See this thread...
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum … ic=78229.0
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 12327
Baltimore, Maryland, US
Didn't Hassy drop most of their pricing 25% a few weeks after the D800 shipped?
Most MF cameras use imaging chips designed and built by Kodak, or whoever bought Kodak's chip business. These CCD chips are at least 2 generations behind state of the art sensors being used by Nikon and Fuji. Worse yet, scales of economy are agsinst MF chips ever being profitable. The larger the chip, the fewer csn be made per wafer, and the more they coat per chip. MF chips need a much longer production cycle to turn a profit, yet the chips technologically age at the same rate as crop or full frame chips. Doomed. MF is doomed. At least as a consumer product.
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6427
Los Angeles, California, US
Sensors are made by Truesense (ex Kodak) and Dalsa (part of Teledyne... a defense contractor).
Sensors are fundamentally the same as last generation sensors.
The sensors are developed for various purposes and one of them being photography.
Phase one now uses Dalsa chips. they are chips that are adapted for proffesional photography applications, however most of the applications of Dalsa chips are in other fields. Dalsa no longer lists pro photography as one of the applications of it's sensors.
F pretty much has to work with what they get from the two vendors. This explains the strange sensor sizes and why a 6x6 sensor did not exist for the HAsselblad V system.
Sensor yields are not bad because they undergo "calibration" to correct for artifacts.
MAny phase one users have issues with lines and tiles showing if calibration needs to be redone.
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 3436
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan
Kodak's sensors are resolving beautifully at lower ISOs, but perform fairly poorly from 400 and up. Or has it been addressed by now?
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6427
Los Angeles, California, US
They are behind in both Dynamic range and high ISO. Phase one does OK with what they peddle as Sensor+ that is really no more than downresing the file. By downresing the file noise is better, but dynamic range remains lower, both at base ISO and higher ISO. Some graphs ![https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8031/8004893732_715c8bd9a4_b.jpg]() ![https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8521/8555871012_c3ca3636fd_b.jpg]()
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 3436
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan
Their EOS and F-mount camera was rather a good performer, as well as their Leica S2 sensor (speaking of dynamic range), though it's been some time ago. Oh well, another expensive failure coming up 
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 12327
Baltimore, Maryland, US
R.EYE.R wrote:
Kodak's sensors are resolving beautifully at lower ISOs, but perform fairly poorly from 400 and up. Or has it been addressed by now? I worked extensively with Kodaks 16mp full frame sensor. It was total crap above above 200 iso.
Photographer
Art Silva
Posts: 10064
Santa Barbara, California, US
Fred Greissing wrote:
On another note while Hasselblad is busy pimping up the Nex
Carl Zeiss is actually working on a product to make the Nex
more of a luxury camera. A set of lenses for the NEX and for the Fuji X-mount.
![https://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj524/picrumors/856838_573868725956705_1099569543_o_zps1d0781cc.jpg]() Alien LiFe wrote:
Hmm ... those lenses are awesome looking ...
Now let see if they are really a 'match in heaven' with Fuji X series body ... I might trade my Nikon system for it ... I'm in the midst of switching my Nikon DSLR system to the Fuji X series and the new Carl Zeiss are looking attractive. Don't know if I'll be able to afford it after I get the M glass I want but who knows in a year's time.
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6427
Los Angeles, California, US
Hasselblad has a posh Launch Party at Willoughby's camera store in NY. The Lunar is now available on their website: http://www.willoughbys.com/Hasselblad-L … rchSize=12 $ 6,995 This is funny: Carbon fiber lens hood
Anti dust microfiber camera, accessories, and lens satchels
High gloss black wooden display box with drawers
and.... wait for it....
18-55mm Hasselblad Lunar Lens with aluminum lens cap. Carbon fiber lens hood... Aluminum lens cap.... but on a plastic lens...
Launch party also in London at St. Martin's Lane Hotel
Photographer
Eyesso
Posts: 1218
Orlando, Florida, US
Cool.....a Sony Nex with twice the pixels for ten times the price!
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6427
Los Angeles, California, US
Same pixel count, but six times the price.
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6427
Los Angeles, California, US
While Hasselblad is "pooping outside the toilet bowl" dicking around with the Lunar another company is doing something very right to add to the Sony Nex. ![https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8262/8714099316_f30673374d_b.jpg]() Carl Zeiss Touit series lenses for Nex and Fuji X Extrordinary lenses. Elegant design. ![https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2847/8802967892_ba3f6611d1_c.jpg]()
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 39248
Portland, Oregon, US
Longwatcher wrote:
The only "lunar" Hasselblad I will ever own (and do).
![https://www.longwatcher.com/images/Special/LWI_NA_Hassy_Side.jpg]()
Just remember, Ford had a half decade of crappy designs, culminating in the "Think" and a crappy looking version of the "Taurus", they either had a stern talking to their design team or fired them, but they have done a much better job since then.
So maybe Hassy has a crappy design team right now, they might get better (although in this case I wouldn't bet on it). THAT is the SEXIEST thing I have ever seen on this site.
OH... my... GOD... 
*blushes* do you let people touch it?
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6427
Los Angeles, California, US
The idiotic marketing bullshit is remarkable. Here is what the Hasselblad USA CEO had to say: MH: Lunar is manufactured using only the finest components inside and out. The optics and imaging engine on the Lunar camera are second to none; we would not put our name on anything less than the finest camera in the world. Sure, we could have made a better “retro” camera...better than the rest and out-playing the competition. But we decided that the real challenge would be to create an entirely new genre of cameras. Before Lunar there was no “luxury camera.” And creating a luxury product is many-faceted—part design, part experience, part providence, and of course, part materials and craftsmanship. He babbles on ...
There is a soul history with this brand, just as there is a soul history with many other iconic, family-begun mature brands—Bentley, Ferrari, Dior, Hermes and the like. Before Lunar there was no “luxury camera......
Rather silly that he would mention Hermes, I guess he missed the Leica/Hermes that I think would more than qualify as a Luxury camera, but also a magnificent design:
![https://gadgetmania.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Leica-M9-P-Hermes-Edition.jpg]()
Photographer
Mcary
Posts: 1803
Fredericksburg, Virginia, US
Fred Greissing wrote:
Hasselblad has a posh Launch Party at Willoughby's camera store in NY.
The Lunar is now available on their website:
http://www.willoughbys.com/Hasselblad-L … rchSize=12
$ 6,995
This is funny:
Carbon fiber lens hood... Aluminum lens cap.... but on a plastic lens...
Launch party also in London at St. Martin's Lane Hotel Wonder how the release of the Hasselblad Lunar is going to effect Leica M (240) sales. After all for same price as a plan old M body, you get this beautiful luxury camera plus an assume zoom.
Photographer
Longwatcher
Posts: 3664
Newport News, Virginia, US
DougBPhoto wrote:
THAT is the SEXIEST thing I have ever seen on this site.
OH... my... GOD...
*blushes* do you let people touch it? Thanks,
And I may let them pet it, but I keep it in my hand so it doesn't get loose. 
Favorite part is it is serial #00002 (#1 is reported to be in the Hassy Museum)
Long story how I got it, but all legitimate.
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 12327
Baltimore, Maryland, US
Mcary wrote:
Wonder how the release of the Hasselblad Lunar is going to effect Leica M (240) sales. After all for same price as a plan old M body, you get this beautiful luxury camera plus an assume zoom. I suspect used prices of thr NEX-7 will double or tripple. After all, same IQ as the Lunar in a lighter and more compact body. Small and light has been the goal of mirrorless cameras since inception. The lunar is the first mirrorless camera to eschew this parigidm.
|
