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Photographer
FoxyStudios
Posts: 22
Palm Bay, Florida, US


So i knew it would happen one day, up to this point ive been very lucky with MM and have worked with alot of models with no flakes. Had my first today and im debating weather or not i should be posting this to her fan page or just keep it on my personal blog to let my local fellow photographers know. what would you guys/gals do ? I've replaced all the call out info with "xxxxx" Would love to hear every ones opinion. don't want to make any rash decisions and potentially hurt my credibility, but in the same sense it seems wrong for her actions to go unnoticed. thanks guys smile I know that this stuff happens all the time so its nothing new, but it is to me lol

"Well today was interesting! I’ve been in contact with a very novice model for the past month in a half about the for-mentioned grave yard shoot. This is a model that has all self pics and no professional to speak of and she responded to my casting call for TFP (In which we seldom ever do), but alas I wanted to help her out and her portfolio could definitely have used it. To top things off I picked up pretty high price lingerie for this shoot and her makeup, which any model that has worked with us will tell you that this was a big missed opportunity, because I always buy new and give away the outfits after the shoots as I do not reuse them.   Now I first must say that the writing was probably on the wall on this one, the model would not give a first name (only a stage name “xxxxxxxx”) and she removed her model mayhem account apparently the day of our shoot (#xxxxxxxx) she would also not give a phone number, but I usually don’t take too much into this behavior because after all, these models need to protect themselves and rarely do they open up until they know we are not creeps. So there we are sitting an hour away from our home city at the shoot location and we don’t get a call, a text, anything! Indicating that she is not going to show. Honestly I’m not upset that she did not show up, as I have countless models who would gladly take her place and are quite frankly more deserving of the work that we do. Overall it was her loss, but it really blows my mind that people are so inconsiderate of others time and money. I have owned my business for the past 12 years and within that time had countless cancellations and reschedules, theirs better ways to say you will not be attending then to not show. Anyways theirs my rant, sorry folks it looks like the Halloween pics will have to be next month, but I’m already collaborating with the model. Be sure to stay tuned for tomorrows shoot which is at a pretty awesome location she’s also excited to be taking home what “XXXXXXX” did not. For my fellow photographer’s and followers you can check out XXXXX active Facebook account here"
Sep 07 13 06:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DOUGLASFOTOS
Posts: 8,047
Los Angeles, California, US


http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=902884

And you want all of us to know....thanks
Sep 07 13 06:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Nature Coast Lightworks
Posts: 1,856
Tampa, Florida, US


You needed to post this in two separate forums for?

And welcome to the "mayhem"!

jf
Sep 07 13 06:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
FoxyStudios
Posts: 22
Palm Bay, Florida, US


Im trying to delete the other one LOL cant figure out how to... open to suggestions
Sep 07 13 06:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Nature Coast Lightworks
Posts: 1,856
Tampa, Florida, US


Just let the mods lock it.

jf
Sep 07 13 06:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PictureItYakima
Posts: 372
Seattle, Washington, US


Chill.
Shit happens.
Move on.
Sep 07 13 06:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Maxximages
Posts: 1,979
Los Angeles, California, US


PictureItYakima wrote:
Chill.
Shit happens.
Move on.

+ 1

Why even post about it, you have models lining up to take her place, post about that, something positve

Sep 07 13 06:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
T-D-L
Posts: 10,124
Los Angeles, California, US


Try not to dwell on it.  If you do, and you shout from the heavens how this girl flaked on you it'll make you seem dramatic, and also...well, like a photographer who gets flaked on (not good for your rep).  Tell your friends if you need to as a heads up, but just move on in the meantime.  When she hits you up in a couple months to shoot again just send a "lol" and you'll feel much better smile
Sep 07 13 06:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
FoxyStudios
Posts: 22
Palm Bay, Florida, US


T-D-L wrote:
Try not to dwell on it.  If you do, and you shout from the heavens how this girl flaked on you, it'll make you seem dramatic, and also...well, like a photographer who gets flaked on (not good for your rep).  Tell your friends if you need to as a heads up, but just move on in the meantime.  When she hits you up in a couple months to shoot again just send a "lol" and you'll feel much better smile

+1

I agree 100 % and this is what im afraid of. Im thinking im just going to do this because i just see it coming back on me. thanks for the thoughtful post it helps more then you know big_smile

Sep 07 13 06:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Isis22
Posts: 2,336
Muncie, Indiana, US


It seems like you ignored a few red flags so try to take something positive from a bad situation. I would not work with someone who won't give me a phone number and at least a real first name. Some "models" are happy just having a profile on here to tell their friends;) Did the model know she would be taking home the outfits after the shoot? Shooting TF is a bigger gamble if she doesn't feel she is getting much out of it. Letting someone know they will get something of value out of a shoot certainly doesn't hurt.
Sep 07 13 07:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark Salo
Posts: 8,045
Olney, Maryland, US


Executive summary:  First Flake Ever !

You have my deepest sympathy.
Sep 07 13 07:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JohnTyler Photography
Posts: 42
Red Bank, New Jersey, US


Isis22 wrote:
It seems like you ignored a few red flags so try to take something positive from a bad situation. I would not work with someone who won't give me a phone number and at least a real first name. Some "models" are happy just having a profile on here to tell their friends;) Did the model know she would be taking home the outfits after the shoot? Shooting TF is a bigger gamble if she doesn't feel she is getting much out of it. Letting someone know they will get something of value out of a shoot certainly doesn't hurt.

Welcome to the club!

Sep 07 13 07:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kirst
Posts: 513
Manchester, New Hampshire, US


i would love to work with you
Sep 07 13 08:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hikari Tech Photography
Posts: 791
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


WOW 12 years and this is your first flake. I'd say you're doing things right.

Water off a duck's back. Smile and move on. Hey, at least you got the 'virgin flake' item checked off now. smile It's one less thing to worry about now (who would be the first flake).
Sep 07 13 08:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,987
Chicago, Illinois, US


OP, I'm sorry you had a flake but 12 years without one is a fantastic record.   I've had several this year alone.   That said, you admit to ignoring some red flags.   Why?   No phone number.   No shoot.   Stage name only.   No shoot.   No call from model to confirm.   Don't step out of your door.   You can't control if a model flakes but you can do things to help avoid their wasting your day.   As I mentioned getting a phone number and having your models call to confirm.   Certainly don't go anywhere without hearing from them first.   As for putting her on blast at any level, no.
Sep 07 13 08:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LMJ Photo
Posts: 208
Chicago, Illinois, US


Tony Lawrence wrote:
OP, I'm sorry you had a flake but 12 years without one is a fantastic record.   I've had several this year alone.   That said, you admit to ignoring some red flags.   Why?   No phone number.   No shoot.   Stage name only.   No shoot.   No call from model to confirm.   Don't step out of your door.   You can't control if a model flakes but you can do things to help avoid their wasting your day.   As I mentioned getting a phone number and having your models call to confirm.   Certainly don't go anywhere without hearing from them first.   As for putting her on blast at any level, no.

Seems like every time I want to write something, Tony always beat me to it. Anyway, I couldn't agree more! No phone number and there ain't no shoot...period! I don't care so much about the name because I require their real name on the release, but they have to confirm before the shoot for me to show up. Oh, and speaking of which, no release, no shoot.

LMJ

Sep 07 13 08:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


FoxyStudios wrote:
"Well today was interesting! I’ve been in contact with a very novice model for the past month in a half about the for-mentioned grave yard shoot. This is a model that has all self pics and no professional to speak of

If I were considering working with you and read that, I couldn't run fast enough in the opposite direction to get away.

Every thing in that rant or blog would lead readers to believe you are the one with issues, not the model. It's whiny, unprofessional and incredibly self-serving.

I always find it odd when a photographer obviously finds enough value to reach out to a model and schedule a TF* shoot. But as soon as it doesn't turn out the way they want, they resort to degrading and insulting the model, as if they were doing them a favor by offering a shoot.

Sep 07 13 09:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ruben Sanchez
Posts: 3,416
San Antonio, Texas, US


Quit wasting your time over models that flake.  It's part of the business.  Time to move on to more productive projects, I think.

It's like selling cars, insurance, and real estate.  You're not going to make a sale with every person that you talk to.  It's the same with models.  Not all of them are reliable.  It's the same with photographers.  Not all of them are reliable.
Sep 07 13 09:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,987
Chicago, Illinois, US


M Pandolfo Photography wrote:

If I were considering working with you and read that, I couldn't run fast enough in the opposite direction to get away.

Every thing in that rant or blog would lead readers to believe you are the one with issues, not the model. It's whiny, unprofessional and incredibly self-serving.

I always find it odd when a photographer obviously finds enough value to reach out to a model and schedule a TF* shoot. But as soon as it doesn't turn out the way they want, they resort to degrading and insulting the model, as if they were doing them a favor by offering a shoot.

Sometimes when people are angry or hurt they say things they really don't mean.   Yet once its written here we are can digest it and comment.   My feeling is the OP is a decent guy.   He deserved to know that his model wasn't coming and his rant is about his frustration.    He didn't out her.   I have no ideal who she is nor do I care.   Is is he being whiny, maybe.   Have many of us been there, damm straight.   Recently a model asked me to shoot and canceled via email last minute.   I was PISSED and while I usually just move on.   I called her and put her on full blast.   I had a designer who wanted to do something.   This was paid work.   Not a lot of money but money.   

Several models over the last few months flaked.   I didn't email or call them or start a thread.   What would be the point but for some people this is cathartic.   I get over my anger by kicking my cat.  (just kidding)

Sep 07 13 09:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,481
Salinas, California, US


FoxyStudios wrote:
....   she would also not give a phone number...

No phone number, no booking.  That's the way it works for me.  If we have not spoken on the phone, we are not shooting.  It's extremely rare that anyone flakes on me. 

FoxyStudios wrote:
This is a model that has all self pics and no professional to speak of ...

This would have been a first red flag for me.  But again, if we don't exchange phone numbers and talk at least once, no shoot.

Sep 07 13 09:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


Unfortunately you are partly to blame for ignoring some key signals.

I would say rewrite it and be more objective. Can it be used on your blog in a positive way, e.g. What you should have done?

remove all links to the model and make it less about her and more a lesson on your failures. Something that can help your readers rather than a bitchfest.

hope that helps.
Sep 08 13 06:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
kevin bellanger
Posts: 465
Albany, New York, US


had 10 flaks in the past 2 weeks no joke. this sight breads them
Sep 10 13 07:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5,209
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


Serves you right for planning to shoot a lingerie set in a graveyard! tongue
Sep 10 13 07:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
kevin bellanger
Posts: 465
Albany, New York, US


Drew Smith Photography wrote:
Serves you right for planning to shoot a lingerie set in a graveyard! tongue

I would pose naked in a grave yard for 10.00

Sep 10 13 08:01 am  Link  Quote 
Model
JessieLeigh
Posts: 2,001
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


FoxyStudios wrote:
Honestly I’m not upset that she did not show up, as I have countless models who would gladly take her place and are quite frankly more deserving of the work that we do.

If this is true, prove it with your actions.

Posting about it here and considering posting on her FB page indicates that what I quoted isn't really the truth.

Also, consider this: All of the jabs you took at the model in your write up also make YOU look bad... You were the one that, before today, thought this was a model worth planning a shoot with.

Sep 10 13 08:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rudolph Uhlman Photo
Posts: 164
Pendleton, Oregon, US


Cool story bro, Welcome to the Club!
Sep 10 13 09:18 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Isis22
Posts: 2,336
Muncie, Indiana, US


kevin bellanger wrote:
had 10 flaks in the past 2 weeks no joke. this sight breads them

Breaded flakes sounds yummy!

Sep 10 13 12:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Janine Valentine
Posts: 65
Oakland, California, US


It is enviable to run into flakes especially when simple trading is involved. Since I started actively modeling more frequently it seems like 1 out of 4 photographers. One photographer I follow must be too through with flakers, she has a section on her page of models that she would not recommend due to tardiness/flaking. Pretty funny.
Sep 17 13 10:20 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Justin
Posts: 21,642
Fort Collins, Colorado, US


Rudolph Uhlman Photo wrote:
Cool story bro, Welcome to the Club!

Yeah.

I made it through the first 10 or 20 shoots without a flaking. But then when it happened, it was, "Oh, so this is what it is." When it happened the second time, it was old hat.

Honestly, most of my flakes occur during the arrangements. They'll simply stop talking, and I move on. If we've got a connection going, time and place and concepts and arrangements set, it generally carries through.

Sep 17 13 08:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,987
Chicago, Illinois, US


A member has stated the OP is partly responsible for his flake.   None of us can make others do anything.   Sometimes we miss red flags but lets put the blame squarely where it belongs.   On the flakes.   Recently a model who asked me to shoot on a specif day flaked.   She wrote me from a CL ad not knowing it was me again and when I mentioned that she had flaked gave some goofy reason.   Look, be an adult about things.   If you don't want to do a shoot or change your mind just say so.   Better yet don't accept shoots you don't want to do.   Why waste people's time?   

However those flaked on are not too blame.   The OP may have ignored or missed some clues.   That happens but its not his fault.   The lesson going forward is to try to read people's actions, profiles and what they say carefully.   No phone number, no shoot.   Indifference when you speak to them, no shoot.   Several weeks ago a beautiful model wrote for TF.   I noted that she hadn't updated her profile in over a year and despite being here since 2010 had only four images.   She mentioned some gibberish about a stalker.    Sometimes people reveal  themselves and before you waste your time consider what they tell you.   Look at the last time they have updated their profiles.
Sep 17 13 09:26 pm  Link  Quote 
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