salvatori. wrote:
A thread like this is the reason a 'model's only' forum may be a good idea, then all the ranting could be done behind closed doors.

As a photographer, this kind of shit does nothing positive for me, and it just makes me want to work with internet self-loving sycophants even less than I already do.

And before y'all give me shit, I am aware that the perverts mentioned aren't 'photographers' any more than a whiny, paranoid wannabe is a 'model'.

Tell us how you really feel?

MartaBrixton wrote:
I agree, if you do nudes everything is much easier.
Same with the pay shoots, try to do a pay shoot if you are not a top model and not willing to pose nude- good luck! The only way I make money is music videos, you have a very small chance to get paid if photographer has a choice between you and hundreds of models who pose nude.
Recently I met a girl, I thought she is one of the most beautiful person I've ever seen (including celebrities), she was drop dead gorgeous and had perfect figure. I was like :wow, you must get so much money from modelling, I'm really surprised I haven't seen you before. She laughed. She said she barely get any money from shoots because she doesn't pose nude. After that day I thought if this wonderful creature doesn't get paid modelling jobs I might as well forget it.
Does it annoy me? No. I understand. Ok, a little bit but I still understand it perfectly.

What annoys me the most is perverts and the fact many ''photographers'' offered me jobs or money if I have sex with them (disgusting people). Apart of that I don't really have reasons to complain but I try to choose photographers carefully.

I doubt that these are "real" photographers.

Cherrystone wrote:

Tell us how you really feel?

Well, the thread is a rant in an Industry Forum, so I thought I could vent as well - you know, equal rights and all...

salvatori. wrote:

Well, the thread is a rant in an Industry Forum, so I thought I could vent as well - you know, equal rights and all...

Poor excuse!

salvatori. wrote:
Well, the thread is a rant in an Industry Forum, so I thought I could vent as well - you know, equal rights and all...

Taking my Forum Guide hat off for a moment, while simultaneously putting on both my photographer's and my model's hats, I don't see the OP as a rant, but rather as a pretty straight-forward question on a matter that is certainly is of interest to models and should be of concern to photographers.

As I see it, modeling, like any job or hobby is full of little frustrations and a few big ones.  When models compare notes on the little ones they usually tend to see the silliness and pettiness of them and instead of fixating on them laugh them away and go on with what they should be doing, i.e. living and enjoying modeling.  On the other hand, when they share the big frustrations they tend to find ways to avoid them or to work around them.  Either way in both cases, their situation is improved, at least in most cases.  Granted there are models who will just bitch for the sake of bitching and not learn anything in the process, but frankly I find them very much in the minority.

As to the matter of a models only forum, that would solve nothing, in my opinion.  Instead it would lead to further isolation.  No learning would take place on either side and the frustrations would inevitably escalate into communication barriers which would, in turn, make it impossible for anyone to do good work.  Photographers should hear what frustrates models.  Otherwise, how will they learn how to improve conditions in their own shops.  And models should also get to know what they do that frustrates photographers, for the very same reason.

     So, in the spirit of the thread, what frustrates me most as a model is that so few photographers see the value of being able to tell a story with a picture, of producing pictures that leave the viewer wondering what happened to get the subject to that point and/or wondering what (s)he will do to deal with it.  I have to admit, though, that this didn't bother me as a young stud. It's only now, fifty years later, as a wrinkled up old prune, that I become aware of the problem.
     On the other hand, as a photographer, experiencing that frustration opens up vast possibilities for me.  It makes me realize that models don't have to be, indeed, shouldn't be, beautiful little Barbie dolls.  Their ability to portray a character, to act out a situation, makes them much more valuable to me.

All IMHO as always, of course.

Danielle Reid wrote:
Only thing that bothers me is last minute cancellations. I never had a flake but I did have a few photographers call me as late as 2 hours before to say they can't make it.

Other than that, the rest is forgivable. At least what I've experienced

To me 2 hours notice is pretty close to a flake.
You have scheduled your day.
You have gotten ready for the shoot and prepared your kit/gear/etc.
So yeah, pretty annoying.

Marin Photography NYC wrote:
My biggest pet peeve is when someone tries to change the game plan after we agreed days in advance.  That just burns my shorts, I'm not gonna get into the whole flake thing, it doesn't even bother me anymore. LOL

Grrr!!! I hate this too! I'll respond to a casting and then the photog will respond "let's do this instead and at this other time, and withot a mua, and at this deserted location." Errrr, noooo. I didn't respond to that request... And then they get mad when I am no longer interested.

MartaBrixton wrote:
What annoys me the most is perverts and the fact many ''photographers'' offered me jobs or money if I have sex with them (disgusting people).

If this happens on MM there is a great little feature called CAM:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/contactamod

Report them.

To make it even easier:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/education/u … w-to-guide

Cree Synster wrote:
I feel like if you're a model who doesn't do nudes, it's almost impossible to get noticed on social media.

Modelling is a form of show business and there is a lot of competition out there, so you have to work out what it is that you do sufficiently differently from everyone else to stand out from the crowd.

A pretty girl, nude or clothed, is just a pretty girl and there is no real shortage of pretty girls.

Nude, by itself, is not a make-or-break factor, but I do find that models who do nude are, as a group, more expressive and it is that superior expressiveness that gets them noticed.

Rob Photosby wrote:

Modelling is a form of show business and there is a lot of competition out there, so you have to work out what it is that you do sufficiently differently from everyone else to stand out from the crowd.

A pretty girl, nude or clothed, is just a pretty girl and there is no real shortage of pretty girls.

Nude, by itself, is not a make-or-break factor, but I do find that models who do nude are, as a group, more expressive and it is that superior expressiveness that gets them noticed.

That last part is a big part of it. One of my favorite models shoots nudes, he's also (and I hope this isn't impolite to say) well endowed. The reason I love his work is because his expressiveness always makes his shots so interesting. His face pulls you in. He is really amazing at providing a "complete" look so you want to look at his face and the entire picture, rather than just the usual hidden bits.

PhantomShots wrote:

His face pulls you in ... so you want to look at his face and the entire picture, rather than just the usual hidden bits.

Exactly.

When I am grading photos, the first thing I look at is the face, because, if the face is not right, it does not matter how good or bad the pose is, the photo is just not going to work.

Danielle Reid wrote:
It seems that photographers have relatives that die suddenly the day of the shoot and can't so much as send a quick email explaining why they couldn't make the shoot. Unless your house explodes, you can send an email. There are these little devices that fit in the palm of your hand that can send little messages to other people.

This business/hobby seems to be extremely hazardous to people's health, doesn't it? lol

Southern_Jas wrote:
Not reading my profile and when conversation about possibly working together suddenly goes dead.  In my situation it is usually due to a very important fact about myself that is clearly mentioned in my profile.  When this detail comes to light after a series of PM's, the conversation abruptly ends.

Some people have no imagination.  Given your life story, I think you would be in the top percentile of models when it comes to being interesting to work with.

Rob Photosby wrote:

Some people have no imagination.  Given your life story, I think you would be in the top percentile of models when it comes to being interesting to work with.

Thank you, I appreciate that.  And yes, I really am very interesting to work with.

salvatori. wrote:
A thread like this is the reason a 'model's only' forum may be a good idea, then all the ranting could be done behind closed doors.

As a photographer, this kind of shit does nothing positive for me, and it just makes me want to work with internet self-loving sycophants even less than I already do.

And before y'all give me shit, I am aware that the perverts mentioned aren't 'photographers' any more than a whiny, paranoid wannabe is a 'model'.

I'm surprised after 6 years on the site you only have 16 friends.

Koryn wrote:
When people who have a portfolio full of beautiful studio shots (that have clearly involved the aid of a make-up artist, are highly styled, etc.) ask if you'd like to do a trade shoot.

You respond with an enthusiastic HELL YES, and then they want to shoot you draped across a rock, but it's too late to say, "Hey, I have 40 million shots of myself draped naked over rocks. Maybe we could shoot something like ... you know.. what's in your portfolio."

So, instead, since you were a dumb-ass and already agreed to the shoot, you're obligated, so you drive half the day, show up, and roll around on a rock and get absolutely nothing useful, or novel, for your portfolio.

If you'd known ahead of time that the work you'd be getting back would be absolutely nothing like what their portfolio represents, you'd have just been like, "No, thanks. Have a great day."

Try a genre for genre deal next time.

MartaBrixton wrote:
I agree, if you do nudes everything is much easier.
Same with the pay shoots, try to do a pay shoot if you are not a top model and not willing to pose nude- good luck!

Supply and demand... simple economics.

When girls like this (who don't do nudes) ask me to shoot them, I don't need to pay models for non-nude work.



In fact, about half the girls I shoot nudes with do it in exchange for some prints.

Koryn wrote:
When people who have a portfolio full of beautiful studio shots (that have clearly involved the aid of a make-up artist, are highly styled, etc.) ask if you'd like to do a trade shoot.

You respond with an enthusiastic HELL YES, and then they want to shoot you draped across a rock, but it's too late to say, "Hey, I have 40 million shots of myself draped naked over rocks. Maybe we could shoot something like ... you know.. what's in your portfolio."

I think its completely reasonable to come back with "I'll shoot half a day of what I want (studio) in exchange for half a day of what you want (rocks)".

So many models seem to find it difficult to get decent headshots done for them - so I always try to shoot some headshots, and a few portrait fotos they can show granny - even when I'm paying for the shoot.

Koryn wrote:
When people who have a portfolio full of beautiful studio shots (that have clearly involved the aid of a make-up artist, are highly styled, etc.) ask if you'd like to do a trade shoot.

You respond with an enthusiastic HELL YES, and then they want to shoot you draped across a rock, but it's too late to say, "Hey, I have 40 million shots of myself draped naked over rocks. Maybe we could shoot something like ... you know.. what's in your portfolio."

So, instead, since you were a dumb-ass and already agreed to the shoot, you're obligated, so you drive half the day, show up, and roll around on a rock and get absolutely nothing useful, or novel, for your portfolio.

If you'd known ahead of time that the work you'd be getting back would be absolutely nothing like what their portfolio represents, you'd have just been like, "No, thanks. Have a great day."

If you are a dumb-ass, which I very much doubt, it would be for not simply being a little clearer once you found out what the photographer wanted. Most any reasonable photographer would understand that you may want to work with them, but the idea proposed is not what you had in mind. And perhaps he/she has no use for more of what you want, so basically you should both take a pass.

I am working to put something together with a very attractive model. She said that she would love to work with me, however she told me to look at her FB and agency portfolios. That is the stuff she has enough of, and does not want more of. Fair enough, since I do not think I could do better in the style of what she has. So we are working on something interesting for both of us. I did not get upset, just a little disappointed thinking I would not get to work with her, but between the two of us, we may come up with something neat. Now admittedly this is trade. If paid, then the payer decides what is to be done.

Hugh Alison wrote:
In fact, about half the girls I shoot nudes with do it in exchange for some prints.

Not surprising Hugh you have some very nice work... Oh no, is that considered an unsolicited critique