Tampa Bay Glamour  wrote:
Modeling and exotic dancing - do the two go together?

OH HELLZ YEAHZ!

Sandra Vixen wrote:
Criminal Psychology (on going), PhD in Kinesiology (performing arts), and Computer Sciences.

Also masters in Musical Theatre.

How about you?

If you seriously never took a dance class in your life and really did learn dance off of youtube videos, I don't think you would be much more than a mover.

If you really have serious doubts about what I say and you think you really are that great, then I encourage you to record some of your performances, send them to NYCB or ABT and see what they say (and mind they are generally more accepting of less than great training).

You're 24 and have three PhDs and a masters? Sure. Go get a PhD in astrophysics and come back and tell me it's "a snore" or whatever bullshit you said about it.

I didn't learn to dance off YouTube. I learned by fucking doing it. I AM good. I get paid for it. People like watching me.

I'm not sending in a video to anyone. Why the fuck would a ballet company care about my kind of dancing? I'm an electronica/industrial dancer, and it's absolutely just as valid as any other kind of dancing in the world.

I really don't care at all what you think. You're overly entitled, pretentious and haughty, and it's gross. You're just making yourself look bad. Please, continue.

Alabaster Crowley wrote:

You're 24 and have three PhDs and a masters? Sure. Go get a PhD in astrophysics and come back and tell me it's "a snore" or whatever bullshit you said about it.

I didn't learn to dance off YouTube. I learned by fucking doing it. I AM good. I get paid for it. People like watching me.

I'm not sending in a video to anyone. Why the fuck would a ballet company care about my kind of dancing? I'm an electronica/industrial dancer, and it's absolutely just as valid as any other kind of dancing in the world.

I really don't care at all what you think. You're overly entitled, pretentious and haughty, and it's gross. You're just making yourself look bad. Please, continue.

The amusing thing of course is that if she sent tapes to the Chinese State Opera (which is basically a dance company) they would just laugh at her for her lack of skills.

Or if she tried to pass the exams at Geisha school.

Both of these dance forms are equally as demanding in terms of the study of form and movement as Russian style ballet - but have a non overlapping skill set.

Sandra Vixen wrote:
Yes I agree, there are some genres of photography that simply would not work out for a dancer, say, BBW (big beautiful women).

Dancers should have long thin limbs, no breasts, no hips/rear, long neck.

BBW would be the opposite. But there are people who think BBW's are beautiful.

lmao! You know how I got to MM from meeting photographers when performing dance. Hmmmm... And if someone I work with has read my profile or checked out my Fan Page they usually ask about it.

Alabaster Crowley wrote:

+1

Here is someone else that was told she wasn't a dancer.

Misty Copeland

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2014/08/ … ign=buffer

Garry k wrote:
I had a very different expectation when I saw the title of this thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK3tGZtJB7s

lmao!

Kahula wrote:
Here is someone else that was told she wasn't a dancer.

Misty Copeland

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2014/08/ … ign=buffer

I would like to see Sandra's response to this.

Sandra Vixen wrote:

K I C K H A M wrote:
I did intense training for competitive gymnastics and they do this same crap about cheerleaders. They were really annoying. The fact that they worked really hard and trained for 6 hours a day everyday didn't make it less annoying. You know why? Because the amount of training we do has NOTHING to do with what those other people do, and it doesn't mean they aren't working hard. In fact, it means nothing.

Me too, I did gymnastics as well, it's killer hard.

But dance, real dance, is harder. That might differ for you or someone else, maybe you were naturally born with 180 turnout and fluid arm movements and found gymnastics harder.

In general, the consensus is that more people (reluctantly) find ballet harder than gymnastics. But each has their own forms of challenges.


I think you misunderstood, I have done those things. I'm stating facts and experiences about each, and in my opinion, which was harder.

I can't imagine that you could possibly have reached a high level of competitive gymnastics if you're whole life is dedicated to dance. Are we talking fulls, flyaways, etc?

And while my turnout took a lot of work, dancing was actually much easier for me than gymnastics ever was. I was not a natural gymnast at all, and I took to dance quite well. But, I loved gymnastics, not dance, so that's the route I chose.

I did a dance shows alongside wonderful dancers, and we had respect for eachother and what the other. Well, except that my parents didn't own a business and we weren't rich. That hurt me. But the athletic parts were no problem.
I believe the general consensus you are speaking of is among dancers, which would be very biased indeed.

K I C K H A M wrote:
And while my turnout took a lot of work, dancing was actually much easier for me than gymnastics ever was. I was not a natural gymnast at all, and I took to dance quite well. But, I loved gymnastics, not dance, so that's the route I chose.

I did a dance shows alongside wonderful dancers, and we had respect for eachother and what the other. Well, except that my parents didn't own a business and we weren't rich. That hurt me. But the athletic parts were no problem.
I believe the general consensus you are speaking of is among dancers, which would be very biased indeed.

Well, gymnastics vs dance is a very close call, when I say that dance is harder, I am basing that in my experience and the experiences of professional gymnasts and dancers from all over the world that I personally knew, and evaluating their cumulative opinions as well.

Dance vs gymnastics is somewhat comparing apples to oranges, I admit, there are overlap but there are differences. In gymnastics (professional world class) you need 180 degree of flexibility and upper body strength, in dance (professional world class) you need 180 degree of flexibility and 180 degree turn out.

Yes there may be bias as well, I don't think that we will ever be able to compare to two on equal inventory but mind in dance you need to make it look beautiful, in gymnastics it is a sport and even Romanian gymnasts, the best in the world, do not put beauty at the highest priority level.

Kahula wrote:
Here is someone else that was told she wasn't a dancer.

Misty Copeland

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2014/08/ … ign=buffer

That article does not seem accurate about Misty Copeland, she was fortunate to get into ballet because she had the ideal body type.

She persevered and had a passion for ballet as well, but she is a bit far away from being the greatest in the world and not by any means a yardstick for dance.

If you want to compare Copeland with real greats, like Vishneva or Pavlova, the latter two did not have ideal ballet bodies, they were both initially rejected, but are now considered the greatest ballerinas in the world.

Also, I think there is some confusion about what was said earlier:

Sandra Vixen wrote:
Real dancers: Someone who has a reasonable amount of formal dance training and can perform it (or at least attempt to perform it) to some level of visually distinguishable competency.

...As opposed to someone who watched some youtube videos of dancers and then went out and started moving thinking he or she was actually dancing. That kind of person is called a mover or performance artist. They have no real training, but they may or may not be good at what they do.

Then you said:

Alabaster Crowley wrote:
So, am I a pretend dancer? Is my dance career imaginary? In no way am I a "mover." That's ridiculous.

When you say "So, am I a pretend dancer?" that makes it sound like you were saying you belonged in the category of dancers who learned off of youtube videos.

Now you say:

Alabaster Crowley wrote:
I didn't learn to dance off YouTube. I learned by fucking doing it. I AM good. I get paid for it. People like watching me.

When you said "I learned by [...] doing it", were you trained or not? or did you just do it thinking you were good and thinking people liked watching you?

Sandra Vixen wrote:
You are right, I lied and made up the whole thing about ever having a degree.

At this point I think you're just trolling for attention.

Virtual Studio wrote:



At this point I think you're just trolling for attention.

What are you doing?

Virtual Studio wrote:
At this point I think you're just trolling for attention.

B.I.N.G.O. B.I.N.G.O. B.I.N.G.O.

...and Bingo was his name-o...




Taking that into consideration, this bullshit argument has gone on long enough.

It's like keeping terminally ill people on life support when they're past the point of no return.

k. thnx.

Sandra Vixen wrote:
When you said "I learned by [...] doing it", were you trained or not? or did you just do it thinking you were good and thinking people liked watching you?

I've made it abundantly clear that I have no had any training. Your high horse is clouding your comprehension skills.

I don't do it "thinking" I am good; I do it knowing I am good. My boss is actually a classically trained ballerina, has complimented me on my dancing, and keeps hiring me back. People come to the stage to watch me and compliment me. That all MIGHT mean I'm good, PERHAPS.

Do you do it THINKING you're good?

And get this through your thick head:
BALLET ISN'T THE ONLY LEGITIMATE, VALID FORM OF DANCE. The kind of dancer I am doesn't give a shit about what a ballet company thinks of us.

But why am I bothering? I'm sure you're a troll now too.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:

What are you doing?

Same - same you dude. Same - same you.

Only looking at your post count just not as hard.

Sandra Vixen wrote:
That article does not seem accurate about Misty Copeland, she was fortunate to get into ballet because she had the ideal body type.

She persevered and had a passion for ballet as well, but she is a bit far away from being the greatest in the world and not by any means a yardstick for dance.

If you want to compare Copeland with real greats, like Vishneva or Pavlova, the latter two did not have ideal ballet bodies, they were both initially rejected, but are now considered the greatest ballerinas in the world.

She was rejected. She was told she was too old and didn't have the right body type. That was the whole point of the commercial and campaign. It is at the very bottom of the article. O_o lol! She is even on a Billboard in NYC.

I think that is pretty great.

Alabaster Crowley wrote:
But why am I bothering? I'm sure you're a troll now too.

You shouldn't bother. Most of the time people who spend their time pointing out who isn't "it", are not "it" either.

Sandra Vixen wrote:
If you still don't believe me, go to NYCB, ABT, Utah State, Florida State, UCI, or any other self-proclaimed dance institution in America and ask them to verify what I just said.

I take classes/workshops at NYCB. They offer classes for all ages and all levels. Most do.

Nah... I don't believe you. O_o

Your attitude is why people don't try to do things because they think they have to be a certain way or a certain look to be able to take a dance class or OMG become a dancer.

Alabaster Crowley wrote:
Interesting that Sandra's not been back.

LMAO!!!!

Allure Vision wrote:
I've found that a lot of Dancers frown on nude Models that do nude for the purpose of art. But nude Models frown on the dancer and consider it whorish because they go nude for money...

I danced on and off for four years (2009-2013), and have worked as a nude model since 2005, in assorted genres.

Yes, sometimes dancers frown on nude models, but in my experience that was only because modeling is traceable, and it's harder to maintain complete anonymity when modeling. Work that gets posted online has a greater likelihood of negatively influencing your social standing or professional credibility, somewhere down the road, than does dancing in a dimly lit club, under a fake name, in a town that is often at least an hour or two away from where you live. Had nothing to do with "for art," or not for art.

I've never known any nude models who thought less of me, because I stripped during slow seasons, and "down time."

Shilo Von Porcelaine wrote:
Can I just say that nobody can say stripping isn't dancing until they have tried to dance an remain attractive in 7inch heels, managed to get enough upper body strength to hold themselves up on a pole and spin, possibly flipping upside down. All the while managing to look beautiful. Strippers are actually pretty amazing dancers. It requires a ton of skill and you really don't know  how hard it is until you do it.

And to answer your question, because of dancing several times a week, my body is better, I take better care of myself, can afford more wardrobe for shoots an to travel, and am a lot more flexible and fluid with my posing.

So yes, strippers can make good models. Not all of them, but it can help.

Great answer! I actually agree!