Natural Body Photo  wrote:
Anyone say either way if this is legit:  saw an add for Photoshop and lightroom for 10 dollars/ month... assuming they continuously provide updated software, sounds good but almost too good:

I will place a link, Not to promote the product, but so you can see what I am refererring to.     
https://creative.adobe.com/plans/photography?sdid=KLXSF

Adobe Creative Cloud is totally legit, as in it IS the way Adobe is currently licensing Photoshop.

IIRC, if you go for the $10/month price, you're agreeing to it for 1 year, they can raise the price to whatever they want after the first year.  Not sure if the agreement also allows them to charge you for a year if you try to cancel early.

This offer has been going on for probably at least the past year, not really anything new.

I presumed most photographers were aware of it, even without the link.

I think there are still many people who are not fans of "renting" the software instead of "buying" the software, but it seems that Adobe is trying to have that be the only way to get PS going forward.

Natural Body Photo  wrote:
Anyone say either way if this is legit:  saw an add for Photoshop and lightroom for 10 dollars/ month... assuming they continuously provide updated software, sounds good but almost too good:

I will place a link, Not to promote the product, but so you can see what I am refererring to.     
https://creative.adobe.com/plans/photography?sdid=KLXSF

This sounds like Adobe's current offer.  The offer you saw may be legit.

Typically, Adobe requires you to relinquish any current Photoshop/Lightroom perpetual license that you own.

The quoted price is for a one year commitment (paid monthly).  After that Adobe is free to change the monthly fee to whatever they think the market will bear.  If you cancel before the end of the year, Adobe may charge you a termination fee of 50¢ on the dollar for the remainder of the year.

Once you stop paying, Photoshop and Lightroom will cease to function.  Your Lightroom archives and Photoshop files will become inaccessible (unless you find compatible third party software.

For some people "leasing" makes a lot of sense.  If you are someone who always buys the latest version at the retail upgrade price, then leasing can make a lot of sense.

For some people "leasing" ends up costing them more money.  If you don't always buy the latest version, if you look for deals, and perhaps only upgrade every other version, then "leasing" may not be a good thing.

Michael Fryd wrote:
Typically, Adobe requires you to relinquish any current Photoshop/Lightroom perpetual license that you own.

WHOA, I had NOT heard THAT !!!

Seriously?

Michael Fryd wrote:
Typically, Adobe requires you to relinquish any current Photoshop/Lightroom perpetual license that you own.

DougBPhoto wrote:
WHOA, I had NOT heard THAT !!!

Seriously?

[citation needed] because I haven't heard that, either.

Michael Fryd wrote:
The quoted price is for a one year commitment (paid monthly).  After that Adobe is free to change the monthly fee to whatever they think the market will bear.  If you cancel before the end of the year, Adobe my charge you a termination fee of 50¢ on the dollar for the remainder of the year.

I hadn't heard that, either. I thought you could turn it on and off and back on again at your whim, taking breaks without penalty if you wanted.

Apparently there are both month-to-month and yearly commitments.

http://www.adobe.com/misc/subscription_terms.html

DougBPhoto wrote:

WHOA, I had NOT heard THAT !!!

Seriously?

Do a web search.  A number of people have reported that they tried Creative Cloud, decided to go back to CS6, but could not.  Apparently, the Creative Cloud installation removed CS6, and they could not reinstall CS6, as Adobe wouldn't activate it.

I could be wrong, but I have seen a number of similar reports.

Michael Fryd wrote:
Do a web search.  A number of people have reported that they tried Creative Cloud, decided to go back to CS6, but could not.  Apparently, the Creative Cloud installation removed CS6, and they could not reinstall CS6, as Adobe wouldn't activate it.

I could be wrong, but I have seen a number of similar reports.

Is it not called robbery?
I mean, if you bought it you wasn't supose to own it forever?

Michael Fryd wrote:
they could not reinstall CS6, as Adobe wouldn't activate it.

If Adobe is not allowing legally purchased versions of CS6 to be activated, that sounds like a class-action lawsuit just aching to be filed.

Adobe is *actually* refusing to activate the software they they have a legal license to use?

Insane.

Marciofs wrote:
Is it not called robbery?
I mean, if you bought it you wasn't supose to own it forever?

Not if you agree to relinquish that license in exchange for a discounted ($10/month) introductory rate on Creative Cloud.

I suspect the actual license agreement for Creative Cloud is rather long.  It can be dangerous to click on "I agree" without actually reading what you are agreeing to.


This is not unusual.  When you pay a discounted price to "upgrade" software, you are frequently agreeing to trade in you license to the old version for a license to the new version.

If you owned CS5, and bought the lower priced "upgrade" to CS6, you may have agreed to relinquish your CS5 license.

Michael Fryd wrote:

Not if you agree to relinquish that license in exchange for a discounted ($10/month) introductory rate on Creative Cloud.

I suspect the actual license agreement for Creative Cloud is rather long.  It can be dangerous to click on "I agree" without actually reading what you are agreeing to.


This is not unusual.  When you pay a discounted price to "upgrade" software, you are frequently agreeing to trade in you license to the old version for a license to the new version.

If you owned CS5, and bought the lower priced "upgrade" to CS6, you may have agreed to relinquish your CS5 license.

Wouldn't put it past them to try it.  They need to keep you locked-in and paying them forever, even if the world adopts to cheaper apps and tablets/cells/whatever.

What better way to write it into a new EULA (that too few even read) as "You can't go back - EVER!"  Just delete your CS4, CS5, or CS6 serial off their server and you are toast on a reinstall or rollback.

Fantastic time to buy Adobe stock! 

GRMACK wrote:
...

Fantastic time to buy Adobe stock! 

Only if the market conforms, and large numbers switch to the new model.

If a significant share of the market don't buy into the new model, Adobe's revenues may go down.

Managing Light wrote:
So far, I've been standing pat with my own CS6, and this thread just gave me a damned good reason to NEVER try CC.

As I was reading this thread, the thought occurred to me that if the photogs who had their CS5/CS6 uninstalled by Adobe were keeping disk image backups with Acronis or Ghost, etc., they might be able to reinstall Photoshop and it would not have to be reauthorized.

Depending on what they agreed to when they went to CC, going back to CS6 might be a license violation.

Michael Fryd wrote:
Typically, Adobe requires you to relinquish any current Photoshop/Lightroom perpetual license that you own.

There is nothing like that in the agreement/license.
If you've already purchased a product, it's yours whether you cancel the subscription service or not.

Michael Fryd wrote:

Do a web search.  A number of people have reported that they tried Creative Cloud, decided to go back to CS6, but could not.  Apparently, the Creative Cloud installation removed CS6, and they could not reinstall CS6, as Adobe wouldn't activate it.

I could be wrong, but I have seen a number of similar reports.

thats BS

i have CC and CS5 installed as well as LR5 and LR4.

my employer pays my CC monthy fee and if they stop i still have my old cs5 and LR4 and both still work, of course i'll probably keep paying the subscription myself as its very affordable for what you get.

Michael Alestra wrote:
thats BS

i have CC and CS5 installed as well as LR5 and LR4.

my employer pays my CC monthy fee and if they stop i still have my old cs5 and LR4 and both still work, of course i'll probably keep paying the subscription myself as its very affordable for what you get.

Do you have CS5 and CC on the same machine?  How do you know that CS5 will continue to work after CC is deactivated?

How do you explain the reports from people who discontinued CC and found that their old version no longer worked?

Will LR4 open the libraries that have been upgraded for the CC version of LR?

What makes you think the price of CC will remain at what you consider an affordable level?

Michael Fryd wrote:
Do you have CS5 and CC on the same machine?  How do you know that CS5 will continue to work after CC is deactivated?

How do you explain the reports from people who discontinued CC and found that their old version no longer worked?

What makes you think the price of CC will remain at what you consider an affordable level?

I have CS5 and CC on one machine and CS5 only on another. Both systems work fine.

Where in Adobe's agreement do you see that previous installations of CS5 or 6 or whatever will no longer work if you stop subscribing to CC?

How do you know what Adobe will be charging in future years? Just speculation?

My internet with Verizon is $10 less than when I signed up two years ago and is faster too. Not everything is Doom and Gloom.

Red Sky Photography wrote:

I have CS5 and CC on one machine and CS5 only on another. Both systems work fine.

Where in Adobe's agreement do you see that previous installations of CS5 or 6 or whatever will no longer work if you stop subscribing to CC?

How do you know what Adobe will be charging in future years? Just speculation?

My internet with Verizon is $10 less than when I signed up two years ago and is faster too. Not everything is Doom and Gloom.

I have not read Adobe's agreement, however there are numerous first hand reports of people who tried CC, decided it wasn't worth it, and were unable to go back to their previous version.  Apparently the installation of CC replaces some shared Adobe license management files.  When the CC version is disabled, older Adobe programs also stop working.  User's report that when reinstalling the old versions, it will not activate.  They report that Adobe says the old version won't activate as that serial number is no longer valid (it was traded in for the CC version).


It is quite possible that all of these reports are false.  There are enough reports that I would not be too quick to dismiss them.


I have no knowledge of what Adobe will charge in the future.  I am making informed speculation based on Adobe past pricing practices and market realities.


There are vast differences between Photoshop and your Internet connection.  Most consumers don't see a real difference between Internet purchased from the local phone company and Internet purchased from the local cable company.  This creates a situation where there is competition.  If Verizon charges noticeably more than the cable company, then consumers will switch to the cable company.

Adobe has been working hard to eliminate competition.  Freehand used to be a viable alternative to Illustrator.  Adobe bought the company and killed the product.   At the moment, there is no significant competition to Photoshop.  Parts of CC use proprietary formats.  If you stop paying for CC, you lose access to your existing library of Indesign files.  Need to make a change to a client's file from two years ago?  Sorry.

Use Lightroom to manage your files?  Stop paying, and you can no longer search your archives. 

The rental model creates a large financial incentive for Adobe to develop and use proprietary file formats.  There is also a huge incentive to buy competing products and discontinue them.

I expect that the price of CC will steadily rise.  The exception will be a temporary drop in price whenever someone tries to introduce a competing piece of software.  Adobe can afford to operate at a loss for a few months.  A startup company may not be able to survive a price war.



You are correct in that this is simply speculation on my part.  Perhaps Adobe does care about consumers more than they care about their owners/stockholders?   Perhaps they will work hard to keep pricing down to the lowest level that keeps them in business, rather than allowing it to rise to the maximum that the market will tolerate?   Only time will tell.

Michael Fryd wrote:
Do you have CS5 and CC on the same machine?  How do you know that CS5 will continue to work after CC is deactivated?

How do you explain the reports from people who discontinued CC and found that their old version no longer worked?

Will LR4 open the libraries that have been upgraded for the CC version of LR?

What makes you think the price of CC will remain at what you consider an affordable level?

i have cs5 on the same machine, its still runs,  i click the wrong icon from time to time.. i cant explain the reports, i haven't experienced them.

LR is still available as a standalone and not a subscription requirement. f they jack the price i'll just buy LR5 and go back to cs5 like i did before, i dont really use the new features of CC, i just dodge and burn and clone/heal, all other adjustment are done in LR

i think adobe will keep the price affordable, why not? they own the market, why piss off the customer base and make them explore other options. at first this $10 for both option wasn't available then adobe made it available, there might be a price increase but i doubt it will be a huge jump.

people are freaking out but the cries IMO are those coming from people who had illigit copies. I dont forget how how much CS5 cost (luckily i had a student discount) add on LR every year or so. $10 is a steal. hell even $20 a month is a steal for being able to use the latest software.

Michael Fryd wrote:
Do a web search.  A number of people have reported that they tried Creative Cloud, decided to go back to CS6, but could not.  Apparently, the Creative Cloud installation removed CS6, and they could not reinstall CS6, as Adobe wouldn't activate it.

I could be wrong, but I have seen a number of similar reports.

Sorry this is Bullshit.

I have creative cloud. I have several pevious versions of photoshop installed and they all still work.

Fred Greissing wrote:

Sorry this is Bullshit.

I have creative cloud. I have several pevious versions of photoshop installed and they all still work.

Whether or not your previous versions currently work tells you little about whether they will continue to work if you discontinue CC.

Do not fall into the trap of believing that all of your Adobe applications are independent of one another.  There's a common directory where shared infrastructure is stored.  When you installed CC some of the shared elements (which may be used by older versions) got updated.


You also have not stated which Adobe offer you agreed to.  Some offers are "upgrades for current users" and may involve a license swap.   If you took a deal available to new users, you may not have surrendered any older licenses.


We also don't know if Adobe believes your old versions are valid.  Should you need to move them to a new computer, we don't know if Adobe will allow activation on the new computer.


While I may very well be wrong, you personal experience does little to let us know for sure.  It also does not explain the multiple reports of people who have dropped CC and been unable to go back to their old versions.

Michael Alestra wrote:
i have cs5 on the same machine, its still runs,  i click the wrong icon from time to time.. i cant explain the reports, i haven't experienced them.

Thank you for the data point.  I wonder if your old version will continue to run if you decide to discontinue CC?

Michael Alestra wrote:
LR is still available as a standalone and not a subscription requirement. f they jack the price i'll just buy LR5 and go back to cs5 like i did before, i dont really use the new features of CC, i just dodge and burn and clone/heal, all other adjustment are done in LR

You are assuming that Adobe will continue to offer a non-subscription version of LR, or that you will be able to find a legitimate copy of a discontinued version.

You are also assuming that Adobe will not make automatic updates to LR CC, that make the database files inaccessible to old versions.

Michael Alestra wrote:
i think adobe will keep the price affordable, why not? they own the market, why piss off the customer base and make them explore other options. at first this $10 for both option wasn't available then adobe made it available, there might be a price increase but i doubt it will be a huge jump.

To increase profits.  Adobe is in business to make money.  It only needs to keep the customer base happy if this is seen as necessary to maintain/increase profits.

If customers are locked in to the product by a subscription based model, then there is no particular reason to keep customers happy.

This may become an issue if there is a competing product, but it may be cheaper to deal with that issue by buying that company, or temporarily lowering prices until the other company goes out of business.

Michael Alestra wrote:
people are freaking out but the cries IMO are those coming from people who had illigit copies. I dont forget how how much CS5 cost (luckily i had a student discount) add on LR every year or so. $10 is a steal. hell even $20 a month is a steal for being able to use the latest software.

How many years did you use CS5?  What does that work out to per month?  How many more years would you continued to use CS5 if Adobe had not introduced the rental model?



I am not saying the rental model is the root of all evil.  I am merely pointing out that the rental model sets up a tremendous economic incentive for Adobe to reduce the pace of product development.  When there is an tremendous economic incentive involved, one should not be surprised when a publicly traded company conforms to the incentive.


For instance, US tax law sets up an enormous economic incentive for a US company to keep international profits out of the US.  Then everyone acts surprised when companies follow the law and keep those profits out of the US.   It turns out that it is cheaper for Apple to borrow money to pay dividends, then to pay them out of international profits that have not been brought back into the US.




I could easily be wrong. Perhaps Adobe's management sees things differently.  Do keep in mind that they have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to maximize shareholder value.   I would not expect them to ignore that legal responsibility solely for the purpose of allowing customers to give the company less money.

Michael Fryd wrote:
For some people "leasing" makes a lot of sense.  If you are someone who always buys the latest version at the retail upgrade price, then leasing can make a lot of sense.

Only if you are really bad at math.  The monthly cost of PhotoShop in the cloud is more than the regular cost of the retail upgrade.

Schlake wrote:

Only if you are really bad at math.  The monthly cost of PhotoShop in the cloud is more than the regular cost of the retail upgrade.

Sometimes the overall total cost is not the only consideration.

A small business that is growing may have better uses for limited capital.  It may make sense to lease rather then use precious capital on a large software purchase.

In certain circumstances there is a tax benefit to leasing rather than buying.

If you are leasing then it may become easier to pass the cost along to clients.

If you only need the software for a short term limited project, leasing may cost less than buying the software.



I am not suggesting that leasing is always better, nor an I suggesting that leasing is usually better.  What I am suggesting is that there are some situations where leasing is a better choice than buying.

DougBPhoto wrote:
WHOA, I had NOT heard THAT !!!

Seriously?

Michael Fryd wrote:
Do a web search.  A number of people have reported that they tried Creative Cloud, decided to go back to CS6, but could not.  Apparently, the Creative Cloud installation removed CS6, and they could not reinstall CS6, as Adobe wouldn't activate it.

I could be wrong, but I have seen a number of similar reports.

I own both the CS3 and CS4 Master Collection.  I just recently installed the CS4 collection on a machine that didn't have Adobe software on it.  I had no problems activating it.  Also, both of those products are listed on my Adobe account as current.  I am thinking that you read about people that either were trolls, i.e. were there to flame Adobe or had technical problems and didn't try to call for help.

It wouldn't surprise me that there are stories like that on the web.  There are a lot of people that don't like Adobe's new subscription based service.

Michael Fryd wrote:
For some people "leasing" makes a lot of sense.  If you are someone who always buys the latest version at the retail upgrade price, then leasing can make a lot of sense.

Schlake wrote:
Only if you are really bad at math.  The monthly cost of PhotoShop in the cloud is more than the regular cost of the retail upgrade.

It is interesting ... I think if you are just a Photoshop user, you are right.  If you use more, it goes the other way.  I have owned the Master Collection for quite some time.  To be honest, I couldn't run my business without the Master Collection.  I love having the software current all the time.  The price is a write-off, so for me, it is just part of the cost of doing business (That and I wouldn't have support for D600, I don't believe, if I still had CS6).