Random Image wrote:
Use your imagination.

Honestly, I am only guessing.  Spank bank is a possibility.

I know a few local photogs up here that will share and critique each others photos and postwork but not show the public.  I guess the best way would just be to ask, but you may not get an honest answer.

I don't care what people do with photos of me.

I care that I can keep my lights on, and food in my cabinets.

They can jerk off to it, sell it to someone else to jerk off to, take it to a photo critique group, use it to build their skill set, or just throw it away.

Don't care. I'm being paid not to care.

Koryn wrote:

I don't care what people do with photos of me.

I care that I can keep my lights on, and food in my cabinets.

They can jerk off to it, sell it to someone else to jerk off to, take it to a photo critique group, use it to build their skill set, or just throw it away.

Don't care. I'm being paid not to care.

Well put!

Koryn wrote:

I don't care what people do with photos of me.

I care that I can keep my lights on, and food in my cabinets.

They can jerk off to it, sell it to someone else to jerk off to, take it to a photo critique group, use it to build their skill set, or just throw it away.

Don't care. I'm being paid not to care.

Best answer!

Koryn wrote:

I don't care what people do with photos of me.

I care that I can keep my lights on, and food in my cabinets.

They can jerk off to it, sell it to someone else to jerk off to, take it to a photo critique group, use it to build their skill set, or just throw it away.

Don't care. I'm being paid not to care.

+1

Angie Borras wrote:
Models that model for private collectors/ GWC/ hobbyist shooting nude work or whatever you want to call them. How do you check references on them to insure your safety?

Since this is not their job and they are just shooting for fun. How do you check references for example if they say they don't provide them for the other models privacy etc.

Lets assume this person also does not have a website.

*Take my first comment as a silly grammar cop*
If you need to insure your safety, call Geico for insurance.
All kidding aside, ensuring your safety can come in many ways:
1. Talk to the person over the phone to get an idea of who the person is. If they stutter or come off as odd/creepy, move on.
2. Trust your gut instinct and don't let the dollar cloud your judgement.
3. Contact models in his/her network.
4. Bring a can of pepper spray.
5. If you accept a shoot, remember the way out so you know exactly how to get out in a hurry, if needed.

Now, I do want to add that models aren't the only ones that are subject to foul play. Photographers are just as concerned about safety as models are.
Wear a smile, have fun and trust your initial instinct.

Angie Borras wrote:
Models that model for private collectors/ GWC/ hobbyist shooting nude work or whatever you want to call them. How do you check references on them to insure your safety?

Since this is not their job and they are just shooting for fun. How do you check references for example if they say they don't provide them for the other models privacy etc.

Lets assume this person also does not have a website.

I have been shooting nude constantly for over 6 years now and never have I brought an escort or asked. If they say no escorts, then you can say fine but I will be having someone drop me off and pick me up from X location. If they have a problem with that tell them to F off.

Other than that I just make sure my bf and mom know the address where I am going and have a link to the photographer's work and contact info.

I never check references. They are just opinions anyways.

Melissa Kat wrote:

I have been shooting nude constantly for over 6 years now and never have I brought an escort or asked. If they say no escorts, then you can say fine but I will be having someone drop me off and pick me up from X location. If they have a problem with that tell them to F off.

Other than that I just make sure my bf and mom know the address where I am going and have a link to the photographer's work and contact info.

I never check references. They are just opinions anyways.

NOOO PRIVATE COLLECTORS FOR ME! Forgot to mention that ha. I do know some models that do and they don't mind doing it for extra money.

a raw muse wrote:
.... A lot of local models also run into the same people from networking sites, so checking in with locals is also a good thing. Having a good group of people you know personally and have a sense for their work ethic and tolerance levels in people they work with is much better than relying on a short list of people someone provides.

Fwiw there are a few people who I give honest references on (read: not necessarily bad) that use images they shot of main their portfolio still. I never like to smear campaign anyone, but honesty is necessary. Sometimes I know some people I love working with are somewhat difficult for some personality types to handle, so I give friends I know a heads up. Also, a "negative" reference from some people is the same as a positive for me and will motivate me to work with someone. If anyone ever says "yeah they were intense and awkward and didn't really talk much and didn't make eye contact" that's like a glowing review for me.

A raw muse I agree very much that an honest reference isn't necessarily a bad reference. It is just what my experience was, the outcome and if I'd repeat it or could recommend in good conscience.

JenB

Isaiah Brink wrote:
Do something that's a million times better than checking references, talk to them yourself.  You're still alive thereby I can reasonable assume that you have the sense to know what's safe for you and what isn't.  Talk to them online, and what's better than that, and that's over the phone, not a text, and possibly in person.

Yep - When it comes to references, the validity of what even a full time employer says is questionable.  A couple non-random opinions provided by only one or two people who spent only a few hours with someone are nearly worthless samples.  There's no reason to think they are representative.

I've also seen no evidence to indicate that shoots done by part time photographers pose notably more risk to models than shoots done by full-time photographers.   

One recent thread by models discussed actual harm during shoots ranging from light stands hitting models to dehydration to reactions to body paint.  I saw nothing to indicate these potential threats were greater when an amateur photographer was shooting than when a professional photographer was.

Why would the final images being used for a private collection make a shoot less or more dangerous than images used for other purposes?


Dangerous shoots are dangerous regardless of whether or not the resulting images will be private or public.  Safe shoots are safe regardless of whether or not the resulting images will be private or public.

Koryn wrote:
I've worked for private collectors and "GWCs" for years, almost never check references, and have never had a problem.

It's probably more dangerous to walk across a dark parking lot, after buying groceries, late at night.

Koryn wrote:

I don't care what people do with photos of me.

I care that I can keep my lights on, and food in my cabinets.

They can jerk off to it, sell it to someone else to jerk off to, take it to a photo critique group, use it to build their skill set, or just throw it away.

Don't care. I'm being paid not to care.

I wish the forums had commonsense answers like these much more often.

hbutz New York wrote:
The bottom line is honesty and that "private collectors" self-identify.

Amen to that.

There is no issue with someone wanting to create something just for themselves, and not as a commercial project.

However, it can get a bit tricky to weed the select few out that aren't so great if you don't have much to go on besides a first impression from an email, phone call, or face to face meeting.

I generally do not find issues to occur with those who are up front and honest about their intent, in fact that is preferable.

a raw muse wrote:
Just wanting to add-

I will agree with those that say trusting your gut instinct is your best call. However, wanted to bring up one more important point.

People exist that are VERY well spoken, very charming, can seem very nice and respectful for the most part. I've encountered a very select few people that bypassed my usual safety measures, and will again emphasize a VERY few. (just in everyday life in general, not limited just to photographer/artist-model scenarios)

There are also people who are a bit socially awkward, stutter, are sometimes not the best with figuring out what is appropriate/inappropriate. Some of my favorite people to work with sometimes flub up (sometimes I do too!), but we are human. Expecting a perfect first impression is a little unrealistic.

There is no way to guarantee whatever methods you choose to ensure your safety will be 100% effective, so always be prepared for the worst so you can breathe easier and relax on the job and just focus on working.

I just want to ++ this because I agree so much.

It isn't any awkwardness that is an issue it is the intent and motivations. Intent says it all. Gut checks 'usually' catch intent even if we aren't aware of it.

I agree.
JenB

a raw muse wrote:
For clarification- hobbyists who have references/models I can contact on mm or by email? Fine with me.

I meant (and I assume OP too) the people who have no portfolio, have never shot someone before, and have absolutely zero references.

I do understand when analog artists have no online presence, there was this one time a painter brought 10 of his paintings to a Starbucks for a meeting before we worked together (on his insistence). That's different and I'm always up for offending people in a Starbucks.

With things like Meetup events, group shoots around the country, etc., I would be a bit leery of someone with NOTHING.  There are a lot of ways to build up a portfolio and references now.  I think the earlier suggestion of a having them rent a studio, or shooting in a public place like a park, or a hotel (where they had to show ID to register), would be reasonable precautions.

Koryn wrote:

I don't care what people do with photos of me.

I care that I can keep my lights on, and food in my cabinets.

They can jerk off to it, sell it to someone else to jerk off to, take it to a photo critique group, use it to build their skill set, or just throw it away.

Don't care. I'm being paid not to care.

^yeppers this is a perfect way to put it^

Angie Borras wrote:
Models that model for private collectors/ GWC/ hobbyist shooting nude work or whatever you want to call them. How do you check references on them to insure your safety?

Since this is not their job and they are just shooting for fun. How do you check references for example if they say they don't provide them for the other models privacy etc.

Lets assume this person also does not have a website.

First of all, private collectors, GWCs, and hobbyists are three different things.

If someone is just starting out, at least they should have some ideas about what they plan on shooting, where, etc.  A pre-shoot meeting in a public place is a good idea. 

However if they are shooting a lot but want to "protect the other models privacy" and they are shooting with other MM models, that doesn't make much sense, does it?

If they have no references, don't want to meet, etc, then tell them you are bringing your female "makeup artist" along.  If they can't deal with that, then don't shoot.

The "private collector" thing alone should raise some red flags if nothing else.

Figures JenB wrote:

The references I checking are from the pool of people the photographer has shot with before, not necessarily with the list that they offer me to select from. Granted I am taking from the pool of the models that the photographer has themselves credited as having shot so it is still somewhat biased but, combining what they say, my gut and pre shoot communications it is better than not.
JenB

Ok, if you check from the pool of people they have shot with, how do you know who they have shot with?  Well, you check their credits which they add themselves on their profile.  You could also take a look at the "Credited Photos" feature here on MM.  But, they can edit those as well.  Once again, checking references is still a biased sampling.  Also still a waste of time versus actually talking to them yourself.  And if you're so worried about something bad happening to you, well, I'd consider another line of work.  I may enjoy it, but if it's so dangerous, well, I like the work, but I hate getting raped, injured, molested, etc. even more than I enjoy it.  Plus those things have a tendency to kill the mood.

DougBPhoto wrote:

Actually, if you stop and pay attention to what I said, for about 2 seconds, you'd notice that you're talking about something DIFFERENT than what I was saying.

However, lets just talk about what you're saying.  Do you have ANY idea how often even references a photographer provides can, in fact, come back neutral or negative?

Honestly, it happens far more often than we'd think, and clearly more often than you think.

Just listen to the models posting here, they know.  Models frequently have a quite different perspective on the experience than the photographer did.   It is SO common. 

You're entitled to your opinion and you can assume it is a waste of time, but the models who are actually doing this have a different experience than what you assume to be true.

Even names a photographer provides can give useful information to a model, however, I was referring to the more *sleuthing* aspect of checking references.

In a nutshell, clearly you'd be very surprised that what you're taking for granted isn't how things really are.

Well, I have considered what you said actually for more than 2 seconds.  And checking references is still a waste of time.  You are still getting a biased response.  I don't know about you, but I'm not going to list as a credit, or anywhere near my profile a person who I had a bad experience with.  If you do, well, that's you, and I wonder about that.  And as I've said in the past, if you're so worried about the people you're working with, then maybe photography/modeling is the wrong field for you.  If you're having to dig around to find something on somebody, well, you have a lot more free time than I do to waste on really pointless activities.  While I'm assuming, because I don't know you, that you are a good person, but I bet if I hired a private investigator to follow you around, and dig into your background, I would probably find something bad that you've done in your past, and likewise if you did that to me.  We've all made mistakes, and in this industry, we've all had bad experiences with working with others if we've been at it for any length of time.  But since we're adults, we just deal with it and move on.  Me, I don't put up my bad experiences out there for anybody to see, just like with my port, I put up what I feel to be my best work......  Put my best foot forward, and many many many others do exactly the same.  I don't know of any professional who dosn't do that as well.