GPS Studio Services wrote:
10fps is impressive.   I haven't seen the specs on limitations and technique.  There are some great uses for a camera that fast.  I am curious what we know about it so far.

There is obviously a minimum shutter speed required to shoot 10fps.  Do we know what that is yet?   Also, do we know if it locks the mirror or moves it on every frame when shooting high speed continuous?

Did Sony had a camera A77 that does 10fps few years back?  Maybe it is a copycat of Sony.

GPS Studio Services wrote:
10fps is impressive.   I haven't seen the specs on limitations and technique.  There are some great uses for a camera that fast.  I am curious what we know about it so far.

There is obviously a minimum shutter speed required to shoot 10fps.  Do we know what that is yet?   Also, do we know if it locks the mirror or moves it on every frame when shooting high speed continuous?

ChanStudio wrote:
Did Sony had a camera A77 that does 10fps few years back?  Maybe it is a copycat of Sony.

I don't recall.   I am just curious though as to what the specs and limitations are on this feature.  It looks great, I am interested in the practical applications based on how it works.

ChanStudio wrote:

Did Sony had a camera A77 that does 10fps few years back?  Maybe it is a copycat of Sony.

I believe it was actually 12fps. But it didn't have a mirror to move, and AF was locked as soon as you staggered shooting. With AF on, it was something like 7fps.

channahphotography wrote:
If anyone is interested, I just got back from a hands on demonstration / presentation of the 7D Mark II. I also have the official specs direct from canon themselves.

Well, I am still interested in the technical specs relating to the 10fps continuous shooting mode.

GPS Studio Services wrote:

Well, I am still interested in the technical specs relating to the 10fps continuous shooting mode.

I'll have a quick look, see if I can answer your question.

GPS Studio Services wrote:

Well, I am still interested in the technical specs relating to the 10fps continuous shooting mode.

From what I can see looking at the spec sheet I got from canon, for continuous shooting this is what canon say: max approx 10 fps per second (speed maintained for up to 1090 jpegs or 31 raw images (1) (2) (10) with UDMA card.

Doesn't mention anything about shutter speed, however so I can't answer that. About the mirror I didn't put it in burst mode, but I did fire off a few quick shots in rapid succession. Each time I heard the mirror slap.

Hope that helps Atleast some what. I only had a couple minutes with the camera, other people wanted to look at it also.

Zack Zoll wrote:
Same here. The ability to do 10fps without mirror lock-up, and a good-sized buffer, would be the difference between the 7DII being a solid replacement camera, and being 'holy crap' amazing.

I would also be curious to know if the AF works as well on the 5DIII system it's modeled after, or if it's been neutered in some way.

Actually it's modelled after the 1Dxxx bodies, not the 5D bodies ( straight from the canon person ) the AF from what I was told earlier is on par with what you get from the 1Dxx bodies.

GPS Studio Services wrote:
Well, I am still interested in the technical specs relating to the 10fps continuous shooting mode.

If your question is: "does the mirror slap with each shot at ten frames per second, or is the EOS 7D II going into live view mode with the mirror up and less reliable auto focus?"

The answer from Canon: "Built to last, the camera also features a shutter durability rating up to 200,000 cycles, approximately thirty three percent more than the original EOS 7D camera. A newly developed mirror mechanism uses motorized control to help reduce impact and enhance camera performance during high-speed continuous shooting."

So yes, it's a true 10 frames per second, with no gimmicks (also the two digix 6 processors allow for this). Combined with the new very high end autofocus system and a continuous 1,000 shot jpeg buffer, this is as good as it gets from Canon (or from anyone else for that matter) for shooting sports.

Unfortunately I don't shoot sports, but if I did, I'd be thrilled!

John
--
John Fisher
700 Euclid Avenue, Suite 110
Miami Beach, Florida 33139
305 534-9322
http://www.johnfisher.com

GPS Studio Services wrote:
Well, I am still interested in the technical specs relating to the 10fps continuous shooting mode.

John Fisher wrote:
If your question is: "does the mirror slap with each shot at ten frames per second, or is the EOS 7D II going into live view mode with the mirror up and less reliable auto focus?"

The answer from Canon: "Built to last, the camera also features a shutter durability rating up to 200,000 cycles, approximately thirty three percent more than the original EOS 7D camera. A newly developed mirror mechanism uses motorized control to help reduce impact and enhance camera performance during high-speed continuous shooting."

So yes, it's a true 10 frames per second, with no gimmicks (also the two digix 6 processors allow for this). Combined with the new very high end autofocus system and a continuous 1,000 shot jpeg buffer, this is as good as it gets from Canon (or from anyone else for that matter) for shooting sports.

Unfortunately I don't shoot sports, but if I did, I'd be thrilled!

John
--
John Fisher
700 Euclid Avenue, Suite 110
Miami Beach, Florida 33139
305 534-9322
http://www.johnfisher.com

I was expecting that the mirror would sequence.  Now all I need to know are at what shutter speeds it will deliver 10fps.

BTW, I am curious, not suspicious.  I'd like to know what the actual specs are.

Pictures of Life wrote:
BnH has it listed for pre-order, $1800, with specs. Canon.com has it with video samples, marketing videos. I wanna see the video autofocus in action. Canon claims you can modify the video autofocus response speed to avoid the rapid hunting. That would be sweet.
    Still don't understand why the shutter has to flop around. I thought we left that behind when mirrorless became a word.

You either have to have the mirror cycle so you can continue your framing or you have to use live view.  If you are forced to use live view, that changes the equation.

I haven't gotten an absolute definitive answer yet, but I am guessing that the mirror sequences in high speed mode.

GPS Studio Services wrote:

Well, I am still interested in the technical specs relating to the 10fps continuous shooting mode.

The 7D MkII has dual Digic 6 processors.  I think that the processing power is the reason.

John Fisher wrote:

If your question is: "does the mirror slap with each shot at ten frames per second, or is the EOS 7D II going into live view mode with the mirror up and less reliable auto focus?"

The answer from Canon: "Built to last, the camera also features a shutter durability rating up to 200,000 cycles, approximately thirty three percent more than the original EOS 7D camera. A newly developed mirror mechanism uses motorized control to help reduce impact and enhance camera performance during high-speed continuous shooting."

So yes, it's a true 10 frames per second, with no gimmicks (also the two digix 6 processors allow for this). Combined with the new very high end autofocus system and a continuous 1,000 shot jpeg buffer, this is as good as it gets from Canon (or from anyone else for that matter) for shooting sports.

Unfortunately I don't shoot sports, but if I did, I'd be thrilled!

John
--
John Fisher
700 Euclid Avenue, Suite 110
Miami Beach, Florida 33139
305 534-9322
http://www.johnfisher.com

Also wildlife.  This DSLR is not aimed at model and fashion photographers.

David M Russell wrote:
I'll never understand why people consider shooting at a very fast frame rate (faster than 5 fps, say) is believed by some to be the key to good photography.

Those kind of frame rates are generally only useful in a very limited number of situations, and even then it's not really a requirement for making quality images.

I'd rather the camera manufacturers concentrated on, for example, the build quality of their camera bodies.

It's like painting a racing stripe on your car and believing that it'll make your car faster.

This camera is aimed at sports and wildlife photographers not model and fashion photographers.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
This camera is aimed at sports and wildlife photographers not model and fashion photographers.

That may be true, but it's still not on my list of most important attributes.

David M Russell wrote:

That may be true, but it's still not on my list of most important attributes.

I don't shoot sports but I do shoot wildlife.  This camera would be useful for me.

Fusion Imagery wrote:
Unless they've made some leap in how it operates different from the 7D and 1Dx... The shutter and mirror cycles and you can see it in the view finder while shooting. 10fps will be the max, but if the camera is dealing with other activities that speed will slow. Being able to burst during sports and wildlife is definitely a benefit, but you almost never spray and pray still until the buffer fills.

The buffer is 1090 jpeg and 31 RAW.  The camera also has dual high speed processors.

Michael Alestra wrote:
with the advent of video on these cameras, i'm still shocked we dont have mirror locking and the camera using a software shutter to pull images off the sensor as fast as the processor will allow it to, considering it can pull 60fps at 1080 resolution.

We have not seen an electronic shutter since the Nikon D40 era, shame really as it also allowed insane sync speeds.

Phil Drinkwater wrote:
I believe there's some situation where it will reduce to 9.5fps but I can't remember what it was or where I saw it...

Other than that it seems like a genuine 9.5 to 10fps

There is still a minimum shutter speed needed to shoot 10fps.  That is what I am trying to find out.  As an example, if you shot at 1/10th, you would have no time for the mirror to travel.  That takes some time.

There is a minimum shutter speed, whether it is 1/250th or 1/500th or whatever.  There is a maximum duration, which if slower, you won't be able to do 10fps.  That is the number that I am trying to find out.

It is interesting, I haven't found it published anywhere but it must be out there somewhere.

GPS Studio Services wrote:
There is still a minimum shutter speed needed to shoot 10fps.  That is what I am trying to find out.  As an example, if you shot at 1/10th, you would have no time for the mirror to travel.  That takes some time.

There is a minimum shutter speed, whether it is 1/250th or 1/500th or whatever.  There is a maximum duration, which if slower, you won't be able to do 10fps.  That is the number that I am trying to find out.

It is interesting, I haven't found it published anywhere but it must be out there somewhere.

From the Canon site posted above:

Continuous Shooting Speed
High-speed: Maximum approx. 10.0 fps (Maximum approx. 9.5 fps with EOS iTR AF)
  *At 1/1000 sec. or faster shutter speed, and at the maximum aperture (varies depending on the lens)
Low-speed: Approx. 3 fps (default setting)
Silent continuous shooting: Maximum approx. 4.0 fps


edit - additional information, also from Canon site:

High speed continuous shooting up to 10.0 fps allows you to capture fast action
With a new, rugged shutter designed for 200,000 cycles, the EOS 7D Mark II can shoot up to 10 frames per second to capture all the action. With super quick AF and exposure systems complementing the shutter's 55 msec shutter release time lag, the EOS 7D Mark II is tailored to meet and even exceed the speed of the action. Refined mechanics like a newly designed, more efficient shutter-drive motor and a vibration dampened mirror drive mean impressive performance for high caliber image quality, fast.

Sophisticated Mirror Control System
The EOS 7D Mark II camera employs an advanced mirror vibration control technology that enables the camera to support its speedy, continuous shooting capabilities while ensuring great image quality. The system uses a motor to help reduce the vibrations caused by high-speed shooting. By reducing the vibrations, the camera can achieve accurate and precise autofocus to provide steady and clear action shots at up to 10.0 frames per second.

Zack Zoll wrote:
Same here. The ability to do 10fps without mirror lock-up, and a good-sized buffer, would be the difference between the 7DII being a solid replacement camera, and being 'holy crap' amazing.

I would also be curious to know if the AF works as well on the 5DIII system it's modeled after, or if it's been neutered in some way.

Its not modeled after the 5d mkIII. Its a crop version of the 1dx and modeled after that.
The 5d MKIII is a different awesome creature of its own.

Caitin Bre  wrote:
Its not modeled after the 5d mkIII. Its a crop version of the 1dx and modeled after that.
The 5d MKIII is a different awesome creature of its own.

Scott Kelby says that "it is literally the little brother of the 1Dx, but for nearly $5,000 less."

GPS Studio Services wrote:
10fps is impressive.   I haven't seen the specs on limitations and technique.  There are some great uses for a camera that fast.  I am curious what we know about it so far.

There is obviously a minimum shutter speed required to shoot 10fps.  Do we know what that is yet?   Also, do we know if it locks the mirror or moves it on every frame when shooting high speed continuous?

wouldn't a bit of math answer that?  1/10?  Perhaps it's not exact due to something like shutter lag.  maybe 1/15 or 1/20?

Michael Alestra wrote:
with the advent of video on these cameras, i'm still shocked we dont have mirror locking and the camera using a software shutter to pull images off the sensor as fast as the processor will allow it to, considering it can pull 60fps at 1080 resolution.

1080p is VERY low resolution compared to 20mp.

Christopher Hartman wrote:
wouldn't a bit of math answer that?  1/10?  Perhaps it's not exact due to something like shutter lack.  maybe 1/15 or 1/20?

Answered above:
Per Canon specs quoted in my post above, 10 fps requires shutter speed of 1/1000 and wide open aperture.

More importantly, mirror cycles and AF engages for each frame.

Christopher Hartman wrote:
wouldn't a bit of math answer that?  1/10?  Perhaps it's not exact due to something like shutter lack.  maybe 1/15 or 1/20?

HHSubMission wrote:
Answered above:
Per Canon specs quoted in my post above, 10 fps requires shutter speed of 1/1000 and wide open aperture.

More importantly, mirror cycles and AF engages for each frame.

That is exactly what I was looking for.  I was curious how fast the shutter had to actuate.  1/1000th actually isn't bad.  Thank you for pointing it out.

I also understand the reason for the wide open aperture.   Stopping down for every image would take time and slow down the process.

Interestingly, that could be a good reason to use a slower lens.  As an example, you might want to use an f5.6 lens in that situation since you may not want to shoot wide open with an f2.8 lens.  Then again, maybe you would want to.

GPS Studio Services wrote:
That is exactly what I was looking for.  I was curious how fast the shutter had to actuate.  1/1000th actually isn't bad.  Thank you for pointing it out.

I also understand the reason for the wide open aperture.   Stopping down for every image would take time and slow down the process.

Interestingly, that could be a good reason to use a slower lens.  As an example, you might want to use an f5.6 lens in that situation since you may not want to shoot wide open with an f2.8 lens.  Then again, maybe you would want to.

You make a couple interesting observations regarding lens speed.

I have a 7D and an 85mm f1.2 Mk II which wouldn't focus fast enough to shoot half the rate the camera is capable of shooting regardless of aperture setting.  My 500mm is pretty quick but quicker if you select a focus distance of other than zero to infinity.  Plus... I often shoot with it wide open.

I have seldom used the maximum frame rate, but when you need it, it is priceless.  It is the difference between getting the shot and not getting the shot.

Other thoughts: We don't really need 10 fps, but a camera that can shoot 10 fps wide open at 1/1000th of a second will be fast enough when not shooting wide open and/or at shutter speeds fast enough to stop action, but slower than 1/1000.  (Stopping  the tips of a hummingbird's wings during flight requires shutter speeds between 1/2000 and 1/8000, but few subjects we shoot move that fast.)

Edit:
In practice, shooting wide open and at higher ISO settings are often required to shoot with a fast enough shutter speed to stop action.  Other than in daylight, how often do we have sufficient light to shoot at 1/1000.

HHSubMission wrote:
Other thoughts: We don't really need 10 fps, but a camera that can shoot 10 fps wide open at 1/1000th of a second will be fast enough when not shooting wide open and/or at shutter speeds fast enough to stop action, but slower than 1/1000.  (Stopping  the tips of a hummingbird's wings during flight requires shutter speeds between 1/2000 and 1/8000, but few subjects we shoot move that fast.)

There is no doubt, if you shoot slower than 1/1000th or don't open the aperture all the way, the camera will still shoot as quickly as it can.      It just won't be 10fps.

GPS Studio Services wrote:
There is no doubt, if you shoot slower than 1/1000th or don't open the aperture all the way, the camera will still shoot as quickly as it can.      It just won't be 10fps.

I agree, but you would need a camera capable of 12 fps (for example) to get 10 fps (wild ass guess) at less than optimal settings.

So... I know it is obvious ... a camera that can shoot 10 is better than 8, because limitations will always apply, unless you forego things like continuously operating AF.

We are on the same page.  Cool stuff.

Pictures of Life wrote:
BnH has it listed for pre-order, $1800, with specs. Canon.com has it with video samples, marketing videos. I wanna see the video autofocus in action. Canon claims you can modify the video autofocus response speed to avoid the rapid hunting. That would be sweet.
    Still don't understand why the shutter has to flop around. I thought we left that behind when mirrorless became a word.

If the mirror doesn't drop back down, you can't see through the view finder and the camera won't be able to be able to change focus if necessary.