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So...You won't shoot with amateurs???
Just as background, I've been shooting a lot of years. I recently came across a model on MM who shall go unnamed and who had in their port/bio that they wouldn't shoot with amateurs. Funny thing is..NO ONE is born a pro. Some have the knack, some have to work hard, and sadly some couldn't shoot a good image if god pressed their shutter...but I digress... Now...I understand that levels of expertise is what sets us apart, along with contacts, experience, and publication track records, and some may feel they're just too good to shoot with an amateur. To each his or her own. But the point I'm trying to make is that everyone, EVEN the model who said she wouldn't shoot with amateurs...has to start somewhere. So I put it to you this way...Say this site was around 40+ yrs ago and we ALL go back in time...and there happens to be a "nobody" amateur photographer on the site named Arny Freytag. Guess what major international magazine you just probably screwed yourself out of? Bottom line?...as an old sgt once said to me in Viet Nam...the ass you kicked today may be the one you'll have to kiss tomorrow. Just sayin... Oct 01 14 02:53 pm Link Good work and great work ethic has nothing to do with amateur or pro. Professionals can be worst than amateurs. Amateurs can be better than pros. Oct 01 14 02:59 pm Link Leonard Gee Photography wrote: +1 Agreed Oct 01 14 03:00 pm Link That kind of stuff in a model's bio crack me up and smack of a diva...like her shit don't stink. Someone had to give her a chance when she started but now she's too good? Oy ve..... Oct 01 14 03:09 pm Link That sort of remark in a model's bio is kinda like branding "amateur" across her butt. In the internet world professional (i.e. earning their living primarily from modeling) models work with amateur photographers all the time. In internet modeling most of the paid work for models comes from either amateur photographers or, if professional, photographers who are shooting for their own satisfaction, in effect, amateurs in the truest sense of the word. Indeed many professional (i.e. earning their living primarily from photography) photographers keep their professional activities as far as possible away from MM and similar sites. Personally, I tend to avoid these models but I have to admit that it's pretty much a passing mistake that newbies make. If they're smart and committed enough, they generally realize that these comments work against them. All IMHO as always, of course. Oct 01 14 03:26 pm Link I don't mind amateurs. I help them build their portfolios, they help me pay my bills. Oct 01 14 03:27 pm Link 1. What did her port look like? 2. I think what she really might have meant was she does not shoot with people that have have GWC/Low Quality work, because she does not want crap pictures of her floating around out there. But I did not see her page or port so maybe I'm wrong. Oct 01 14 03:29 pm Link Sorry, DP Oct 01 14 03:34 pm Link There's a lot of arrogance among both models and photogs. It really does get old. Oct 01 14 03:41 pm Link Rays Fine Art wrote: DP?...dumb post?...dipshit post? Oct 01 14 03:42 pm Link I kinda don't get this post. I agree that that comment is unnecessary in a models bio but are you expecting someone no matter their skill level to work with someone inexperienced because they might be awesome someday? I'm sure tons of models and photographers have standards when it comes to who they'll shoot with, if they feel like they're beyond working with someone then that's their choice. Maybe the model herself was very new to models so it was a bit hypocritical but if she has a strong port and look she has every right not to work with amateur photographs if she wants to. Oct 01 14 04:10 pm Link Laura Bello wrote: The OP may have been picking up on the tone of bio. Oct 01 14 04:14 pm Link a model has to live with unflattering results in a very different way than a photographer. i give new models a chance all the time, but i always advise them to work with the best photographers they can possibly get to shoot with them. Oct 01 14 04:23 pm Link A model local to me had the same thing in her profile. I told her that I would be happy to charge her. Needless to say, she never responded. That's OK, I don't work with snobs. Oct 01 14 04:24 pm Link When a model or photographer, or anyone else too, states something like "I don't work with amateurs", I feel like they're trying to make themselves out to be better than the rest by just saying this. It may come from a feeling of insecurity. I think we all have criteria of whom we'd like to work with. We just don't put it out there in writing. For me I can't really describe who I like. I just see a face and I know if I'd like to photograph them or not. Doesn't matter if they're amateurs or pros. Oct 01 14 04:33 pm Link 
Photographer Posts: 4288 Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica 'DP' stand for double post. BTW, your whole thesis is pretty ironic. I mean, amateur or professional, it would be a good idea to have at least ONE photo in your portfolio, and maybe even four, since that's the rule of the site. O_o Oct 01 14 04:42 pm Link It may have been insensitive on her part, but unless her business is specifically targeting mediocre photographers with cash (as seems to be the MM way for many), there's not a whole lot of benefit for a serious model to work with someone who's not going to produce images at a certain caliber. Oct 01 14 04:45 pm Link Saying she should give everyone a chance, and work with anyone because they MIGHT be the next big thing is silly to me. While saying she doesn't work with 'X type' of photographer on her profile is a little unprofessional, it's not a bad idea for a model to try and narrow down who they work with. Nobody has the time to give EVERYONE a chance. Oct 01 14 04:48 pm Link Leonard Gee Photography wrote: Lallure Photographic wrote: +1 Oct 01 14 05:04 pm Link Legeros Photography LLC wrote: You say a lot of conflicting things here... Oct 01 14 05:05 pm Link Leonard Gee Photography wrote: +1 Well stated! Oct 01 14 05:08 pm Link Penumbra Photography wrote: That's not exactly what I said...please re-read it...the main thrust of the post...and perhaps I could have put in a bit more back ground...in any case I've not outed the model...but my take was "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"...in other words her port IMO wasn't "all that"... Oct 01 14 05:09 pm Link Gianantonio wrote: Actually...I don't think my points are conflicting..but rather just statements from all sides, and as I responded to another post...the model's port wasn't "all that"...and that fact may or may not be her fault... Oct 01 14 05:11 pm Link Penumbra Photography wrote: sorry...I can't list her port....from what I saw working with an "amateur" couldn't hurt.. Oct 01 14 05:14 pm Link It is axiomatic that a good model, or even a model with great potential, should avoid like the plague any photographer she doesn't have the utmost confidence in. Too much downside risk. No matter the money. As to the original post... in general, I avoid making judgments on model's--or photographer's--profiles. When I find a model I want to shoot with, I query her. I will generalize by saying that Mayhem photographers do themselves no favors by being upset in public. RBD Oct 01 14 05:15 pm Link Legeros Photography LLC wrote: Yeah. Maybe that's because she's been working with amateur photographers... Oct 01 14 05:16 pm Link Rob Photosby wrote: I think I'll have to call BINGO! on this one...many can talk the talk in the bio..but if the port doesn't back it up, which it didn't IMO....just sayin... Oct 01 14 05:17 pm Link Nico Simon Princely wrote: Here we go again! Just because a person is an Amateur, or the mythical GWC as you put it, has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of their work! Oct 01 14 05:19 pm Link Legeros Photography LLC wrote: Why do you care who she or any other net model that you dont know works with ?? Oct 01 14 05:19 pm Link J-PhotoArt wrote: Maybe the model means "amateur" in the sense of not having a high level of skill (regardless of the photographer's profession) or lacking a strong work ethic. Oct 01 14 05:22 pm Link J-PhotoArt wrote: I think many people when they use the word amateur photographer, they don't so much mean that they don't derive the majority of their income from photography, but that their approach is amateur-ish and their images are amateurish. Oct 01 14 05:28 pm Link Gianantonio wrote: That's what I was thinking. Very few times do I use the terms amateur and professional in the strictly literal sense that they make a certain amount of money off they're photography. I normally use the terms to refer to a state or someones work, where they've been published, what agencies they're working with AND if they're getting paid work. I make 0 money off my photography because I choose to work as a retoucher but I don't consider myself an amateur. I could be wrong though :p Oct 01 14 05:29 pm Link I think the model probably doesn't realize that the way she worded the comment may upset some people, but I can completely understand where she's coming from. I don't put any disclaimer on my profile, but I certainly judge the quality of each individuals work, and decline the offer if their work is not something I feel will represent me in a way that I want to be shown. There's no amount of money that could convince to me work with some folks, because money is temporary, but terrible images are forever.  Some "amateurs" actually do some pretty darn good work, and some "pros" produce nothing but crap, IMO. It's all so subjective that I don't think the words "amateur" and "pro" mean anything in terms of describing the quality of a persons work. Oct 01 14 05:40 pm Link J O H N A L L A N wrote: That may be true and I would agree with you on this point. Oct 01 14 05:40 pm Link MelissaAnn wrote: This should be added to the Newbie model blog link. Oct 01 14 06:00 pm Link Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote: You OBVIOUSLY missed the whole point of the post...I DON'T care who she works with...The post was a comment on the stated refusal of a model to even consider an amateur...I would think it her loss to not even consider an amateur considering that she listed paid assignments only...and her port wasn't all that IMO... Oct 01 14 06:02 pm Link There are a lot of photographers I turn down no matter how much they offer just because I don't want horrible photos of me floating around. Of their port looks like shit I'll probably turn them down. I can get the cash from somewhere else and not waste a day with a horrible outcome Oct 01 14 06:06 pm Link MelissaAnn wrote: Like someone else said now what she said but how she said it I don't put any disclaimer on my profile, but I certainly judge the quality of each individuals work, and decline the offer if their work is not something I feel will represent me in a way that I want to be shown. There's no amount of money that could convince to me work with some folks, because money is temporary, but terrible images are forever. I agree, in fact I submit that the terms amateur and professional are thrown around here far too often....one only need to peruse a profile and images to make a determination....oh and god knows if I could find them...I'd remove some images I put on the net when I started... Some "amateurs" actually do some pretty darn good work, and some "pros" produce nothing but crap, IMO. It's all so subjective that I don't think the words "amateur" and "pro" mean anything in terms of describing the quality of a persons work. I concur with this statement in it's entirety. Oct 01 14 06:09 pm Link I cannot be bothered to read it all. I am an amateur, simply meaning that I derive pretty much 'no' income from my photography. Check my portfolio and judge for yourself. Oct 01 14 06:10 pm Link Danielle Reid wrote: as it should be...I looked at your bio...it didn't have anything in it I was talking about...:} Oct 01 14 06:12 pm Link |
