Forums > General Industry > Photographers feeling uncomfortable with models...

Model

Jay Dezelic

Posts: 5029

Seattle, Washington, US

I just had a fashion photoshoot get cancelled (the night before the shoot) because the photographer became uncomfortable with the idea.  It was actually a husband and wife team where I had been dealing with the wife whom had posted a fashion shoot casting on Craigslists for a model and designer (which I am both).  They initiated the shoot idea after reviewing my MM port.  She claimed to really like my unconventional approach to fashion and seemed to have a good understanding of my vision to change the way people think about fashion.

Nothing had been changed in my port nor did we seem to have any misunderstanding that should reasonably warrant a cancelation due to subject matter (at least that I could see).  My unique fashion ideas are pretty explanatory on my port.

The last minute cancelation was a disappointment because I had worked for several days to get new fall wardrobe designs ready for the shoot. 

I have done a fair number of shoots but have not ever had a cancellation because someone became uncomfortable with shooting my work after making a commitment.  Most photographers can decide up front whether or not my style fits their genre.

Oh well--when shit happens, we must move on.

I don't hold a grievance against the photographers because everyone is entitled to their own changing opinions--besides, the last thing I want to waste time with is someone who is uncomfortable behind the camera.

However, assuming communications are productive, professional and respectful, what sorts of things make photographers uncomfortable with models prior to a shoot?

What sort of questions should be asked to assure that a photographer is comfortable with the shoot idea?

Oct 15 14 08:40 am Link

Photographer

Farenell Photography

Posts: 18832

Albany, New York, US

Jay Dezelic wrote:
However, assuming communications are productive, professional and respectful, what sorts of things make photographers uncomfortable with models prior to a shoot?

What sort of questions should be asked to assure that a photographer is comfortable with the shoot idea?

It may have absolutely nothing to do with you.

For all we know, something could have come up on their end. Or an idea that was pretty cool in the discussion phase, doesn't sound so cool come crunch time. Could have lost a market (client, publication submission) thus not the shoot worthwhile.

Losing out on a shoot sucks big time. But hopefully, you didn't get so far into it where you can't do other things. When such instances happen, just be thankful you can sleep in the next day - many people will deny you that luxury by a no-call/no-show.

Oct 15 14 08:50 am Link

Photographer

Lallure Photographic

Posts: 2086

Taylors, South Carolina, US

What may have been of interest to the wife, may not have been of interest to the photog.

While your fashions may work for you, they won't do much for a photog's portfolio.

Oct 15 14 10:30 am Link

Photographer

Laura Elizabeth Photo

Posts: 2253

Rochester, New York, US

Ok I know no one here is going to like hearing this but I wanna give an honest possible explanation.  A year or so ago I looked over a models portfolio, thought I liked it and asked to set up a shoot with her.  We hadn't set up anything official yet but in the time of her next message I had re-reviewed her portfolio and realized she just wasn't what I was looking for in a model and shooting with her for free wouldn't benefit my work.  I certainly didn't outright tell her this so I either told her I wasn't available anymore or just remained silent (I know, very bad manners, but I hate confrontations)  Naturally I've had girls be all into shooting with me one minute and then I never hear from them again as well.

Anyways, I'm not saying this is the case but photographers (and I'm sure other talent as well) can end up having second thoughts and backing away from a shoot for a number of reasons, even just that they got preoccupied with something else and will come back to you later.  There's really nothing you can do to avoid this it just happens sometimes unfortunately.  All you can really do is just try to sell yourself and your idea the best you can and hope they follow through on their end.

Oct 15 14 11:09 am Link

Model

Jay Dezelic

Posts: 5029

Seattle, Washington, US

Lallure Photographic wrote:
...While your fashions may work for you, they won't do much for a photog's portfolio.

That depends on the portfolio and the target audience for the portfolio.  There is no absolute standard in making a portfolio.  It depends on who the photographer wants to inspire.

These are details I tend to sort out ahead of time because I don't want to waste someone's time if they are not comfortable shooting outside the box.  I had photographer tell me once that they don't shoot guys with long hair because it wasn't in style. That's just a personal choice.  I had another photographer ask me if it was legal for me to wear the clothes I design in public locations--I don't know what set of laws they were thinking of, but clearly they weren't comfortable with the idea.

I agree, I don't have much of a value proposition for photographers who want to shoot contemporary fashion, but there is nothing in my port that indicates that I do contemporary work.  I try to make it pretty clear what I am about. It's defiantly not mainstream, so it's pretty useless for 95% of the market. But there's a lot of people on this planet and some of them like different ideas.

Oct 15 14 11:51 am Link

Photographer

DAVISICON

Posts: 644

San Antonio, Texas, US

It likely had less to do with you, working with multiple people on one or both ends always complicates things more, because there are more opinions and possibly more conflict. What the wife may have liked, the guy may have not and they couldn't agree.

Oct 15 14 12:04 pm Link

Model

Jay Dezelic

Posts: 5029

Seattle, Washington, US

DAVISICON wrote:
It likely had less to do with you, working with multiple people on one or both ends always complicates things more, because there are more opinions and possibly more conflict. What the wife may have liked, the guy may have not and they couldn't agree.

This is true.  Multiple decision makers can be less decisive.  If a subject is controversial, it's probably best to confirm a concept buy-in by all parties.

Oct 15 14 12:19 pm Link

Photographer

KelliePics

Posts: 29

Middletown, New York, US

HAHAHA
I have had models cancel because:
"I broke my arm last night"
"There was a bomb scare at the Port Authority"
"I got arrested and just got out of jail"
"the bus driver saw me standing there but just kept going"
"I am now stranded, took the wrong bus, could you send me some money?"
"I had to take my wife out last night, stopped at McDonald's on the way to you, fell asleep in the parking lot for 3 hours, sorry"
"There was a 3 hour delay on the bus because of traffic"

the list goes on & on.
They are just whack jobs, weirdos, - the entire world is full of them, models, photographers, people.........men, women.

Just this morning I heard from a winner.
Have used him for work - he moved to Florida, when I called him to work again he acted like I was insignificant, I was lucky he was talking to me.

This morning he calls me to see how I am.  I told him if he wants to work, he has to get here.  We chatted a half hour.  Then finally I find out why he called,

"Could you do me a favor?"
I say what?  He says,
"Could you send me a thousand dollars?"

Oct 15 14 12:20 pm Link

Model

Jay Dezelic

Posts: 5029

Seattle, Washington, US

KelliePics wrote:
HAHAHA
I have had models cancel because:
"I broke my arm last night"
"There was a bomb scare at the Port Authority"
"I got arrested and just got out of jail"
"the bus driver saw me standing there but just kept going"
"I am now stranded, took the wrong bus, could you send me some money?"
"I had to take my wife out last night, stopped at McDonald's on the way to you, fell asleep in the parking lot for 3 hours, sorry"
"There was a 3 hour delay on the bus because of traffic"

the list goes on & on.
They are just whack jobs, weirdos, - the entire world is full of them, models, photographers, people.........men, women.

Just this morning I heard from a winner.
Have used him for work - he moved to Florida, when I called him to work again he acted like I was insignificant, I was lucky he was talking to me.

This morning he calls me to see how I am.  I told him if he wants to work, he has to get here.  We chatted a half hour.  Then finally I find out why he called,

"Could you do me a favor?"
I say what?  He says,
"Could you send me a thousand dollars?"

Well, this too is true.  People in general are flakier then ever it seems.  It's an epidemic that has become more of a norm than exception.  I am usually pretty good at vetting out flakes with old fashioned phone conversations prior to a shoot.  But not always.

In six years, I have never flaked out on a single shoot.  If I say I will be there, I'm there. And, I work until the job is done.  To me, work ethic should include respect for others in the commitments we make.  But then again, I'm not very contemporary.

Oct 15 14 12:44 pm Link

Photographer

Rays Fine Art

Posts: 7504

New York, New York, US

Jay Dezelic wrote:
. . . .

However, assuming communications are productive, professional and respectful, what sorts of things make photographers uncomfortable with models prior to a shoot?

What sort of questions should be asked to assure that a photographer is comfortable with the shoot idea?

Just an off-the-top of my head guess, but I'd suspect a measure of homophobia on the husband's part.  Actually, I think that would be a problem that many male models face, whatever their own orientation.  Since it occurs entirely within the head of the uncomfortable person, there's really nothing the model can do but shrug and go on to the next shoot.  Whether as a photographer or as a model (or just as a person), I go to great lengths to avoid people that are uncomfortable with me if, after a reasonable effort, I can't get them to relax.  It just seems better to nip problems in the bud.  Other than that, I'm turned off by,
Humorless people,
Argumentative people,
Demanding or uncompromising people,
Uncommitted people.

As to the questions one might ask:
"I like to . . . (fill in the blanks).  What do you think about that?
"Have you ever done anything like this?"
"Have you discussed this idea with your (partner, designer, client, MUA) or anybody else that might have an opinion on the project?
"Do you have any reservations about the project?"
come to mind.

All IMHO as always, of course.

Oct 15 14 12:56 pm Link

Photographer

BarryH

Posts: 864

Taipei City, Taipei City, Taiwan

Whatever the reason (unless it's a medical or other REAL emergency), the night before is too late.

Oct 27 14 11:24 am Link

Model

jackjardine

Posts: 5

Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom

The way I see it is that you have you're amazing vision about fashion that you want to show the world right?

The photographers you were about to work with were just not the ones.

What happens is meant to happen. You weren't meant to work with that couple but you will come across an amazing new photographer.

Just shake it off like water off a ducks back!

Good luck!! smile

Oct 27 14 01:57 pm Link

Photographer

alessandro2009

Posts: 8091

Florence, Toscana, Italy

Farenell Photography wrote:
It may have absolutely nothing to do with you.

+1

Lallure Photographic wrote:
What may have been of interest to the wife, may not have been of interest to the photog.

+1

Oct 27 14 02:05 pm Link

Photographer

TerrysPhotocountry

Posts: 4649

Rochester, New York, US

The photographer might have had a client cancel at the last minute?

Oct 27 14 02:28 pm Link

Photographer

MN Photography

Posts: 1432

Chicago, Illinois, US

I'll occasionally cancel a shoot if I think the model is being too obsessive in the run up to shoot.

It's only happened a few times, usually when the model wants to set up a shoot 3 or 4 weeks in advance and then starts sending me messages everyday asking irrelevant questions and wanting to change things we already settled on.

Models who do that often no show or are problems during and after the shoot.  When they seem really obsessive, I'll just want to avoid them altogether

Oct 27 14 02:38 pm Link

Photographer

Nor-Cal Photography

Posts: 3718

Walnut Creek, California, US

Laura Bello wrote:
Photographers (and I'm sure other talent as well) can end up having second thoughts and backing away from a shoot for a number of reasons, even just that they got preoccupied with something else and will come back to you later.  There's really nothing you can do to avoid this it just happens sometimes unfortunately.

I agree with the "second thoughts" comment. What is a great idea today may become a bad idea tomorrow.

But just one worthless opinion.   smile

Oct 27 14 03:07 pm Link

Photographer

Darren Brade

Posts: 3351

London, England, United Kingdom

Since it's a husband/wife team, then more likely only one of them wanted to shoot you, however the other one got to call the shots.

It's a shame when it happens.

Oct 27 14 06:13 pm Link

Photographer

Garry k

Posts: 30129

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Darren Brade wrote:
Since it's a husband/wife team, then more likely only one of them wanted to shoot you, however the other one got to call the shots.

It's a shame when it happens.

or they simply did couldn't agree to proceed

Oct 27 14 06:24 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45198

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Darren Brade wrote:
Since it's a husband/wife team, then more likely only one of them wanted to shoot you, however the other one got to call the shots.

It's a shame when it happens.

Seems to me like it's very possible that the husband disagreed with the wife in regards to the shoot.   I'm sorry that you got late canceled on.  It helps when you are dealing with just one person.  There is a reason that partnerships, including marriages may not always last.  It's hard to know if both are on board.

Oct 27 14 06:44 pm Link

Photographer

DougBPhoto

Posts: 39248

Portland, Oregon, US

models are scary

Very very frightening.

Oct 27 14 06:49 pm Link

Photographer

F O R B E S

Posts: 576

New York, New York, US

I'm Bipolar. Sometimes I check a model's port and i'm like "wow she's gorgeous" and I reach out to her and we set up a date to shoot. Few days later I go back to her port, and i'm like "wow...what was a I thinking?" Then I pretty much cancel or just not reply to her. Sometimes you're into something and then sometimes you realize that you're not really into it after all.

Oct 29 14 06:01 am Link

Photographer

Lallure Photographic

Posts: 2086

Taylors, South Carolina, US

Why shouldn't they get uncomfortable with models?

Many of the photogs here, don't have store fronts. They are inviting strangers into their homes, whom they have never met, know nothing about, and risking well being, as well as lots of expensive equipment, etc. to try and work with models.

Models are amusing, in that they think they are the only ones at risk, in working with photogs. The photogs have to be concerned about models using drugs, alcohol, and the potential for robbery, or even physical harm. This is absolutely a two way street, and NOT a one way street.

Time to recognize that basic truth.

Oct 29 14 06:47 am Link

Photographer

HalfMoonColorado

Posts: 797

Murrells Inlet, South Carolina, US

It could be that they found someone else that fit their wants and needs better.

Also I have worked on projects for a long time and have seen them evolve to the point where they are very far off from my original idea. As I narrow down specific shots and lighting lists what I thought would be great all of a sudden wasn't so hot.

I agree that the night before is late to cancel the shoot but would you have wanted to go ahead and do it but know it wasn't worth your time?

Oct 29 14 07:41 am Link

Photographer

JaQs Photography

Posts: 9

Detroit, Michigan, US

Jay Dezelic wrote:
I just had a fashion photoshoot get cancelled (the night before the shoot) because the photographer became uncomfortable with the idea.  It was actually a husband and wife team where I had been dealing with the wife whom had posted a fashion shoot casting on Craigslists for a model and designer (which I am both).  They initiated the shoot idea after reviewing my MM port.  She claimed to really like my unconventional approach to fashion and seemed to have a good understanding of my vision to change the way people think about fashion.

Nothing had been changed in my port nor did we seem to have any misunderstanding that should reasonably warrant a cancelation due to subject matter (at least that I could see).  My unique fashion ideas are pretty explanatory on my port.

The last minute cancelation was a disappointment because I had worked for several days to get new fall wardrobe designs ready for the shoot. 

I have done a fair number of shoots but have not ever had a cancellation because someone became uncomfortable with shooting my work after making a commitment.  Most photographers can decide up front whether or not my style fits their genre.

Oh well--when shit happens, we must move on.

I don't hold a grievance against the photographers because everyone is entitled to their own changing opinions--besides, the last thing I want to waste time with is someone who is uncomfortable behind the camera.

However, assuming communications are productive, professional and respectful, what sorts of things make photographers uncomfortable with models prior to a shoot?

What sort of questions should be asked to assure that a photographer is comfortable with the shoot idea?

You mentioned something very key and this may have been touched on already, but the fact that it was a husband-and-wife team tells me that there was some discussion behind closed doors they could not agree on. Having shot with my wife we have had a host of disagreements about content and direction for shoots... Chances are this is what happened with them. One of the parties was not in total agreement with the way it should've gone thus resulting in you being X'd out completely... It's really sad because tons of photographers complain about clients not being consistent and reliable or canceling last minute, yet you have those whom are inconsiderate of time themselves...

Oct 29 14 08:14 am Link

Photographer

Benjamen McGuire

Posts: 3991

Portland, Oregon, US

Perhaps they didn't care for your suggestion to play "Goodbye Horses" during the shoot?

Nov 02 14 01:12 pm Link