Star wrote:
My mom sent this to me, so I wanna say it isn't spam... but well it is just the view of a very well read, thoughtful, liberal american and it is better than anything I could say on the subject since so many of the people on the board don't really understand what it is like to live hand to mouth...

Star

To All My Fellow Americans Who Voted for George W. Bush:

On this, the fourth anniversary of 9/11, I'm just curious, how does it feel?

How does it feel to know that the man you elected to lead us after we were attacked went ahead and put a guy in charge of FEMA whose main qualification was that he ran horse shows?

That's right. Horse shows.

I really want to know -- and I ask you this in all sincerity and with all due respect -- how do you feel about the utter contempt Mr. Bush has shown for your safety? C'mon, give me just a moment of honesty. Don't start ranting on about how this disaster in New Orleans was the fault of one of the poorest cities in America. Put aside your hatred of Democrats and liberals and anyone with the last name of Clinton. Just look me in the eye and tell me our President did the right thing after 9/11 by naming a horse show runner as the top man to protect us in case of an emergency or catastrophe.

I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.

Are we safer now than before 9/11? When you learn that behind the horse show runner, the #2 and #3 men in charge of emergency preparedness have zero experience in emergency preparedness, do you think we are safer?

When you look at Michael Chertoff, the head of Homeland Security, a man with little experience in national security, do you feel secure?

When men who never served in the military and have never seen young men die in battle send our young people off to war, do you think they know how to conduct a war? Do they know what it means to have your legs blown off for a threat that was never there?

Do you really believe that turning over important government services to private corporations has resulted in better services for the people?

Why do you hate our federal government so much? You have voted for politicians for the past 25 years whose main goal has been to de-fund the federal government. Do you think that cutting federal programs like FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers has been good or bad for America? GOOD OR BAD?

With the nation's debt at an all-time high, do you think tax cuts for the rich are still a good idea? Will you give yours back so hundreds of thousands of homeless in New Orleans can have a home?

Do you believe in Jesus? Really? Didn't he say that we would be judged by how we treat the least among us? Hurricane Katrina came in and blew off the facade that we were a nation with liberty and justice for all. The wind howled and the water rose and what was revealed was that the poor in America shall be left to suffer and die while the President of the United States fiddles and tells them to eat cake.

That's not a joke. The day the hurricane hit and the levees broke, Mr. Bush, John McCain and their rich pals were stuffing themselves with cake. A full day after the levees broke (the same levees whose repair funding he had cut), Mr. Bush was playing a guitar some country singer gave him. All this while New Orleans sank under water.

It would take ANOTHER day before the President would do a flyover in his jumbo jet, peeking out the widow at the misery 2500 feet below him as he flew back to his second home in DC. It would then be TWO MORE DAYS before a trickle of federal aid and troops would arrive. This was no seven minutes in a sitting trance while children read "My Pet Goat" to him. This was FOUR DAYS of doing nothing other than saying "Brownie (FEMA director Michael Brown), you're doing a heck of a job!"

My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock of the world?

And on this sacred day of remembrance, do you think we honor or shame those who died on 9/11/01? If we learned nothing and find ourselves today every bit as vulnerable and unprepared as we were on that bright sunny morning, then did the 3,000 die in vain?

Our vulnerability is not just about dealing with terrorists or natural disasters. We are vulnerable and unsafe because we allow one in eight Americans to live in horrible poverty. We accept an education system where one in six children never graduate and most of those who do can't string a coherent sentence together. The middle class can't pay the mortgage or the hospital bills and 45 million have no health coverage whatsoever.

Are we safe? Do you really feel safe? You can only move so far out and build so many gated communities before the fruit of what you've sown will be crashing through your walls and demanding retribution. Do you really want to wait until that happens? Or is it your hope that if they are left alone long enough to soil themselves and shoot themselves and drown in the filth that fills the street that maybe the problem will somehow go away?

I know you know better. You gave the country and the world a man who wasn't up for the job and all he does is hire people who aren't up for the job. You did this to us, to the world, to the people of New Orleans. Please fix it. Bush is yours. And you know, for our peace and safety and security, this has to be fixed. What do you propose?

I have an idea, and it isn't a horse show.

Yours,
Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
[email protected]

I see a new movie to fund his cheese burger habit. Swimming for New Orleans or maybe My Horse Can't Swim.

JvR wrote:
You're probably right, Mike. I bet he's down there right now getting footage. I can't wait to see it. I don't always like his methods, but I love the way he confronts powerful people with their own hypocrisy. If only the media in general would do a better job of exposing hypocrisy from the right and the left.

You mean edits?

David Moyle wrote:
Letter to Michael Moore.

You're a great entertainer. Thanks for all the comedy you provided during the DNC lasty year! I like the way you manipulate 10 seconds of video to make it look like it was 5 minutes of video and don't disclose anything.

Your style of arguing is causing a cult following amongst young liberals everywhere that is causing a fragmentation of your political party and making it virtually guaranteed another Democrat will not see the White house for a decade. Not a single person in this group can form their own thoughts based on fact, all they can do is quote you. This makes you the biggest genius the Republican party could ever hope for. I'm starting to think you are actually part of some right-wing propaganda machine set out to destroy the Democratric Party.

For that, sir, I commend you.

sincerely,
David Moyle

And I want to thank all the republicans who never argue with facts, but instead with character (of course don't attack their character). Also a special thank you to those American's who voted for Bush because "that liberal media" was covering up all those darned weapons of mass destruction that Bush was saving us from.

No, really, not a joke a significant number of voters said they felt that there were wmd's long after it was proven that there weren't. Thank you.

Also David, if this was the big one and it had hit CA, we are a blue state so I'm guessing we wouldn't have seen help any sooner and thousands in east la, Compton, San Bernardino, and the like would have died in excruciating pain from dehydration,

Star

p.s. I am only able to listen to facts, not accusations. If you disagree with any of the facts, and I have linked to the source website please feel free to do so.

David Moyle wrote:
Letter to Michael Moore.

You're a great entertainer. Thanks for all the comedy you provided during the DNC lasty year! I like the way you manipulate 10 seconds of video to make it look like it was 5 minutes of video and don't disclose anything.

Your style of arguing is causing a cult following amongst young liberals everywhere that is causing a fragmentation of your political party and making it virtually guaranteed another Democrat will not see the White house for a decade. Not a single person in this group can form their own thoughts based on fact, all they can do is quote you. This makes you the biggest genius the Republican party could ever hope for. I'm starting to think you are actually part of some right-wing propaganda machine set out to destroy the Democratric Party. Maybe now we can finally free this country from the socialistic welfare programs that are choking it.

For that, sir, I commend you.

sincerely,
David Moyle

Just as I thought. As soon as I saw the title I knew those on the right would not address what he said but would merely attack the messenger. So typical.

DigitalCMH wrote:

You mean edits?

No, I don't mean edits. What I mean is going up to Charles Heston and asking him the kind of questions nobody else dares to ask him. What I mean is digging up to footage of the Bush family with the Saudis and showing it. What I mean is confronting the head of GM with the consequences of his decisions. What I mean is asking Congressmen whether they have sons or daughters in Iraq.

After seeing that, you might still agree with Heston, the Bushies, GM or the war, but at least you've seen connections others might be wary to show or you have seen how those with money and power are made uncomfortable when asked hard questions.

Media nowadays is afraid to ask hard questions because they fear loss of access. That's scary.

And, if you've noticed, I'd gladly welcome the right-wing version of Michael Moore.

David Moyle wrote:
Letter to Michael Moore.

You're a great entertainer. Thanks for all the comedy you provided during the DNC lasty year! I like the way you manipulate 10 seconds of video to make it look like it was 5 minutes of video and don't disclose anything.

Your style of arguing is causing a cult following amongst young liberals everywhere that is causing a fragmentation of your political party and making it virtually guaranteed another Democrat will not see the White house for a decade. Not a single person in this group can form their own thoughts based on fact, all they can do is quote you. This makes you the biggest genius the Republican party could ever hope for. I'm starting to think you are actually part of some right-wing propaganda machine set out to destroy the Democratric Party. Maybe now we can finally free this country from the socialistic welfare programs that are choking it.

For that, sir, I commend you.

sincerely,
David Moyle

Assuming that Michael Moore actually wrote this letter... what is your point?  Am I to understand that you refute what he just said by bringing up the DNC plus some long winded generalizations about the people who like him (cult followers?)

Why don't you address the letter instead of boring us with your interpretation of MM... oh btw before you label me... I don't particulary like MM, nor his style of reporting(distorting), but please don't even try to tell me that Karl Rove and his croonies are not doing the very same thing.

Star wrote:
And I want to thank all the republicans who never argue with facts, but instead with character (of course don't attack their character). Also a special thank you to those American's who voted for Bush because "that liberal media" was covering up all those darned weapons of mass destruction that Bush was saving us from.

No, really, not a joke a significant number of voters said they felt that there were wmd's long after it was proven that there weren't. Thank you.

Also David, if this was the big one and it had hit CA, we are a blue state so I'm guessing we wouldn't have seen help any sooner and thousands in east la, Compton, San Bernardino, and the like would have died in excruciating pain from dehydration,

Star

p.s. I am only able to listen to facts, not accusations. If you disagree with any of the facts, and I have linked to the source website please feel free to do so.

Really? NEVER argue with facts? Are you sure you read the same threads I do? Cuz all I see is a bunch of fact-based arguements (I've presented dozens myself) only to be refuted by quotes from Michael Moore videos or to have new threads started when the others get too convoluted with fact (in an effort to confuse maybe?). If your buddy Mike is the be-all end-all of fact, then by all means, follow him like a cultist. Cuz there's a whole bunch of liberals that think he's a joke, not just conservatives.

RStephenT wrote:
Assuming that Michael Moore actually wrote this letter... what is your point?  Am I to understand that you refute what he just said by bringing up the DNC plus some long winded generalizations about the people who like him (cult followers?)

Why don't you address the letter instead of boring us with your interpretation of MM... oh btw before you label me... I don't particulary like MM, nor his style of reporting(distorting), but please don't even try to tell me that Karl Rove and his croonies are not doing the very same thing.

Oh, you know as well as I that all these issues have been addressed here by several of us...repeatedly.

Y'all just like starting new threads so you can claim we don't provide facts because you know the general reader is too lazy to look back to other threads.

I addressed this in my letter where I referred to his style of arguing.

It's really beginning to get humorous, so I thought I'd mock y'all a little. Now's where you tell me world politics are no joking matter. And then I say, well, several thousand political satirists (including Michael Moore) that do it for a living would disagree.

Yawn!

Star wrote:
sooo.... you have refuted the facts in this letter how?

In like a thousand other threads over the last few weeks. Which you have participated in on occasion. I'll let you do the research.

Nice attempt though

David Moyle wrote:

In like a thousand other threads over the last few weeks. Which you have participated in on occasion. I'll let you do the research.

Wow, such humility!

DreamPretty wrote:
Thanks, Star, for that post!
And David...I just love how "you love" everything we liberals do and say!
Otherwise, there'd be nothing to talk about here.
Keep posting...;;D

See, I'm living proof that conservatives hate less and love more

David Moyle wrote:

In like a thousand other threads over the last few weeks. Which you have participated in on occasion. I'll let you do the research.

Nice attempt though

Gosh David so sawry to make you repeat yourself and your facts... so we are to take it that you have addressed what was stated in this letter somewhere else and it is just so much trouble for you to do it again.... but NOT to much trouble for you to refute the letter not by pointing out the lies but by character hatchet jobs.

RStephenT wrote:

Gosh David so sawry to make you repeat yourself and your facts... so we are to take it that you have addressed what was stated in this letter somewhere else and it is just so much trouble for you to do it again.... but NOT to much trouble for you to refute the letter not by pointing out the lies but by character hatchet jobs.

yawn!

David Moyle wrote:

See, I'm living proof that conservatives hate less and love more

Let me see if I get this straight ...

It seems to me, David, that you were the guy who, when confronted with the proposition that "For evil to triumph requires only that good men do nothing" you immediately leaped to the conclusion that it was a great justification for going to war. In so doing you demonstrated just how full of ... uh ... love ... you are. Your imagination did not for an instant grapp the possibility that there might be other  alternatives for "good men" than:

1.) do nothing
2.) attack and kill

I submit if you had an open mind, you might be able to imagine other alternatives, too.

David Moyle wrote:

yawn!

yadda yadda

Joe Kozlowski wrote:

Let me see if I get this straight ...

It seems to me, David, that you were the guy who, when confronted with the proposition that "For evil to triumph requires only that good men do nothing" you immediately leaped to the conclusion that it was a great justification for going to war. In so doing you demonstrated just how full of ... uh ... love ... you are. Your imagination did not for an instant grapp the possibility that there might be other  alternatives for "good men" than:

1.) do nothing
2.) attack and kill

I submit if you had an open mind, you might be able to imagine other alternatives, too.

Oh, cuz I coulda swore I stated the reason for going to war, then backed that up by stating that doing nothing about it was allowing evil to triumph. But you can spin it if you want, cuz your little group of same-minded people posting in this tread so far will believe you anyway, and the rest not bothering will see right through that.

Star wrote:
And I want to thank all the republicans who never argue with facts, but instead with character (of course don't attack their character). Also a special thank you to those American's who voted for Bush because "that liberal media" was covering up all those darned weapons of mass destruction that Bush was saving us from.

No, really, not a joke a significant number of voters said they felt that there were wmd's long after it was proven that there weren't. Thank you.

Also David, if this was the big one and it had hit CA, we are a blue state so I'm guessing we wouldn't have seen help any sooner and thousands in east la, Compton, San Bernardino, and the like would have died in excruciating pain from dehydration,

Star

p.s. I am only able to listen to facts, not accusations. If you disagree with any of the facts, and I have linked to the source website please feel free to do so.

David Moyle wrote:

Oh, cuz I coulda swore I stated the reason for going to war, then backed that up by stating that doing nothing about it was allowing evil to triumph. But you can spin it if you want, cuz your little group of same-minded people posting in this tread so far will believe you anyway, and the rest not bothering will see right through that.

I believe your memory does not serve you well. You were quite adament that it was a rationale for war. You may have posted your reasons why you thought killing other people was a kind and loving thing elsewhere, but not in that response to me. It was pretty short, sweet and as usual, arrogantly dismissive.

Still, I .. and I would hope others ... believe there are other options than going to war to resolve international issues. It would appear you would rather kill then rationalize. No diplomatic BS for you. Shoot first, ask questions later. Or go with the answers you'd like to hear.

Oh ... did you catch Colin Powell the other night. He thinks he got misled into making the case for war before the UN .. calls it a blot on his record. You do know what a "blot on one's record" is for a man of his caliber? He also thinks the only way out at this point is to fight our way out ... and perhaps he's right but now that he's weighed in on the issue, your belief that going to war was a good alternative looks more and more foolish with every passing minute. I guess that would mean you're loosing your respect for the man?

The rest of the whine sounds like ... a whine.

David Moyle wrote:

yawn!

That responce is no good.  If you have the energy to type any sort of responces surely you can spend the energy to refute the points instead of dodging the issue by saying you refuted the arguments in earlier posts, and then come back with "yawn" you should have been a politician because you seem good at dodging questions.

Joe Kozlowski wrote:
You were quite adament that it was a rationale for war. You may have posted your reasons why you thought killing other people was a kind and loving thing elsewhere, but not in that response to me. It was pretty short, sweet and as usual, arrogantly dismissive.

Oh, so you took part of an arguement and used that little snippet to accuse me of saying something I never did? Geez, I'm just so shocked that you would do that jo jo.

See, the statement that you make above makes it sound just so quaint and easy. You make loaded statements like  "why you thought killing other people was a kind and loving thing", as if that was my point.

THAT is exactly what your cult leader Michael Moore does...thank you for proving my point.

No, my point was actually that by allowing a regime to kill people both inside and outside their own country using terrorism, by training them, paying them, and giving them a place to live...by allowing that to happen, we would be allowing "evil to win".

So, jo jo, how about finding where I said anything but that, and posting it here, for everyone to read, and proving me wrong legitimately. Don't start a new thread, don't make shit up, and don't accuse me of arguing without fact. Stop wasting everyones time and prove something...for once...just one time jo jo...I dare you!

David Moyle wrote:
Oh, cuz I coulda swore I stated the reason for going to war, then backed that up by stating that doing nothing about it was allowing evil to triumph. But you can spin it if you want, cuz your little group of same-minded people posting in this tread so far will believe you anyway, and the rest not bothering will see right through that.

So using your rationale that we should go to war is "allowing evil to triumph"... what about the evil in Africa?  Rwanda comes to mind... the evil in Cambodia...pol-pot comes to mind... north korea?  Seems like you think more violence is a solution to violence and evil... you need a different perspective... read some about Ghandi's life.  There are other ways...

RStephenT wrote:

So using your rationale that we should go to war is "allowing evil to triumph"... what about the evil in Africa?  Rwanda comes to mind... the evil in Cambodia...pol-pot comes to mind... north korea?  Seems like you think more violence is a solution to violence and evil... you need a different perspective... read some about Ghandi's life.  There are other ways...

Ya, unfortunately, starving oneself isn't really gonna matter to the terrorists of the world. But go for it. I didn't say I liked the fact that all some people understand is violence, I just said it happens to be true. I don't like allot of things, but that doesn't stop them from being the truth.

David Moyle wrote:
THAT is exactly what your cult leader Michael Moore does...

You need to find another "phrase for the day"... do you really like looking this stupid... anything you have to say after that sillyiness is immaterial... try stating your case without "the phrase of the day" and maybe you'll have a better time of it.

C R Photography wrote:
IHere's an idea Michael Moore, why don't you and Sally Struthers skip one meal a day, then you could not only feed the entire state of Louisiana, but come close to ending world hunger.

Wouldn't it be great if all the people you didn't like just went on hunger strike? Or even better, a big hurricane might come and drown them! Be sure to thank God for destroying your enemies, and maybe he'll lend you a hand some other time down the road.

RStephenT wrote:

You need to find another "phrase for the day"... do you really like looking this stupid... anything you have to say after that sillyiness is immaterial... try stating your case without "the phrase of the day" and maybe you'll have a better time of it.

Ya, you of all people callin me stupid is just killing me.

David Moyle wrote:

Ya, unfortunately, starving oneself isn't really gonna matter to the terrorists of the world. But go for it. I didn't say I liked the fact that all some people understand is violence, I just said it happens to be true. I don't like allot of things, but that doesn't stop them from being the truth.

If "starving" is all you know about Gandhi's movement then you really need to study his approach to using non violence... it's called "Satyagraha"... you are trivializing a man that freed his country from the most powerful country at the time.

Using your violent approach in Iraq has made all of us safer hasn't it?  It's a much better approach isn't it?

Morphine Dream wrote:

That responce is no good.  If you have the energy to type any sort of responces surely you can spend the energy to refute the points instead of dodging the issue by saying you refuted the arguments in earlier posts, and then come back with "yawn" you should have been a politician because you seem good at dodging questions.

Ya, I'm the one known for dodging questions. That's a pretty good try though. So you call days of liberals starting new threads about the same stupid topics that have been beaten to death, refuted by fact from "conservatives", and then, avoiding responding by starting a new thread ME dodging a question. Sound logic!

Here's a link for you since everyone here is a "do it for me" type of person:

https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=10643

David Moyle wrote:

Ya, you of all people callin me stupid is just killing me.

If it were only true... if only...

RStephenT wrote:

If it were only true... if only...

Oh, now, wishing death on me sounds like something you'd accuse a conservative of. Careful.

DreamPretty wrote:

Wouldn't it be great if all the people you didn't like just went on hunger strike? Or even better, a big hurricane might come and drown them! Be sure to thank God for destroying your enemies, and maybe he'll lend you a hand some other time down the road.

If you truly believe that by Michael Moore and Sally Struthers skipping a meal could be construed as a "hunger strike", then you'll need to watch Rosie O’Donnell’s' "Chub Club" episodes. 

Neither one of those blubbering boobs has any reason to talk about food for other people.

“Ever look a menu and say Okayâ€?? – RD

“I invented a meal between breakfast and brunchâ€?! – HS

David Moyle wrote:

Oh, now, wishing death on me sounds like something you'd accuse a conservative of. Careful.

See there you go again... saying something is happening... and then not following through.  I was just hopeful it was true... but you're such a teaze...

Oh btw be careful of those labels, you might not be talking to a liberal... since you are so fond of labling folks.