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Opinion poll for photographers - pro and am...
Okay so I've been shooting since february... I'm at the point now where I rent studio space, lighting, hire MUA's and Stylists - all of which I finance out of my own pocket - there are no split costs... In addition to this I find the models as well... My questions to all of you shooters is; How many pics would you give your support crew per look per model after the shoot? I would just like to get a concensus form the professionals (I'd really like to hear from the pros on this one) and amatuers alike on MM... I feel 4- 6 pics per look per model is adequate for the support team... Anything beyond that can be accomodated with discussion... Is it reasonble to give every pic from the shoot to support team? But anyways - just wanted your thoughts on this one... Sep 14 05 03:09 pm Link Are you paying your support team (mua, sytlists, etc..)? If you're paying them then I'd say its only if you really love them and want to keep them working with you for possibly a discounted fee... give them a few finals. Why would you want to give them images of the entire shoot... even if you're editing them all... you only need to give them a few copies of the best ones. Typically when shooting TFCD with a model ... If the mua/stylist gives me a good rate that I can pass onto the model then I offer them a series of 4 - 5 of the final images that the model and I choose as being the best. Justin Sep 14 05 03:13 pm Link justinwasik wrote: Thanx for the input... Sep 14 05 03:22 pm Link You always want your best work out there, so if there are more good shots, as long as they use your by-line with the images there is no problem. If it's all digital, there is only time expended. So work a deal with them, less pay more images or something like that. I pay my assistant and MUA, but own my studio so they are sub-contractors and I have a with them, so it is a little different. So it depends, if you want your work shown more, let more out. I know not much help but getting images seen will benefit in the long run. Michael Barone Studio Sep 14 05 03:36 pm Link Barone Studio wrote: Actually this helps alot Michael.. You brought up some excellent points... the more\less pay idea is something that I've not thought about.... I have the luxury of financing out of pocket - but I won't be doing that too much longer... Sep 14 05 03:46 pm Link If your paying for everything and not selling the photos in the end to recoup that money, I would have everybody chip in a small fee to lesson your payments. Everybody is making out except you it looks like and your even giving them free photos it sounds like. The MUA, stylist ect if anything you can work out a trade with if they are helping yo uout. Maybe let them pick th eimages and you get them printed at your cost and they pay for it. Maybe have everybody chip in to get good photos and have the model, MUA, hairstylist promote your work to get more jobs where you can charge somebody. Work out a deal so that the MUA, stylist ect will be available for all your shoots so yo uhave a steady quality photo every shoot. Any jobs that come in you split between all of you (MUA, stylist ect) Start a company, get a tax ID then you and the MUA, stylist ect can write off everything you use for the shoots, including the studio, makeup, brush's ect. If you all work together well then why not try to make it a permanent group and start making a profit. You could be the next playboy, maxim photog Sep 14 05 03:55 pm Link Thanx Peter, good points... But what would you say with the current conditions would be a fair amonut of pics for the support crew to have - per look per model?? Sep 14 05 04:00 pm Link I would let them have all of the pictures but only be allowed to commercially use a certain percentage/fraction of them. That's usually how it's done with adult work. Sep 14 05 04:10 pm Link Since you are footing the bill for everything and hopefully copywriting all the images (and possibly watermarking images used for web) i would give at most 3 images per look to the mua and stylist with their input on which ones they needed. If they need more then take it out of the pay but three is plenty if they are really good and you have alot of models coming through Sep 14 05 05:19 pm Link If you're paying fair wages, then I don't think you owe them any shots. If you want your good shots out there, you give them your good ones. If you're not paying fair wages, work it out with each of them to the extent everybody is happy with the relationships. Sep 14 05 05:45 pm Link Sounds good Jvr and Chris... I'm not drawing an income from photography so the only thing I offer my crew is cash, a professional studio and lighting, and some pics for their books... This hasn't become something that is profitable for me... But when it does I will be treating my crew as business partners - that is to say that they will be responsible for time, planning, and $$... It would seem that a few pics per look seems to be the general concensus regarding this type of shoot.... Sep 14 05 06:23 pm Link Like a few others brought up, if you're paying them you don't really owe them anything- as a courtesy though I think 1 final retouched image per look is nice. Sep 14 05 06:30 pm Link Justin N Lane wrote: When I first started shooting I used to wonder why photogs gave up so few pics... Now I thoroughly understand why - as I only want to put my best work forward ... Strange how everyhting changes once you produce the first image that you actually like.... Sep 14 05 06:45 pm Link Hi! I am gonna be beating a dead horse here! If you pay the people who are working for you thhe rate they quoted then you really do not owe them an image. The rate is compensation for their time and talent. For a test shoot everyone works for the image since money is not involved. Now to make people happy and more importantly to get your name and work out there it is in your best interest to give a few of your best images to the model, mua and stylist so they can put them in their book and basically advertise your work. Plus if they like you and the shoot goes well they can have something to brag about. Personally if I pay (it is a commercial gig) then there are no images for the crew. I try to work it that I get a tearsheet from the published work for the crew's portfolios, as that is very usefull for anyone's portfolio. It really depends on the client and what they can get me. If I don't pay then the people get one best image from each look. Ther is no need to have 2-3 images of the same look in your book. If you need that then your either don't have enough images or you need to shoot some stronger work. I pick a different image for the make-up artist than I do the model as their needs are different. I think you should invest your shooting money into a studio space and gear. Then run test shoots untill you get the quality of shot you desire and then the top quality models will be coming your way. Think long term goals and plans. Just my 2 cents. Spend it how you wish... Sep 14 05 07:23 pm Link House of Indulgence wrote: Not beating a dead horse at all... I'm trying to get as many views as possible... I guess this is basically a survey into the practices of those that do this type of thing for a living... If you got a question - go to the source - that's what I always say... So your to cents will be invested and grown... Sep 14 05 07:29 pm Link I treat makeup artists and models equally. Sep 14 05 09:05 pm Link here is another question. i give my models releases but what about the support team, MUA, Stylist, etc. Do they sign a release as well? Sep 14 05 11:16 pm Link CMPhotoshoot wrote: Release for what? A model release for ME is only for one thing... to save my ass. Sep 14 05 11:18 pm Link If you are doing TFP/TFCD with the model, then you owe him/her whatever number of prints/images you promised before hand. If you are paying your other support people (MAU, stylist, etc.), then I don't think you OWE them anything at all, other than their wages. If you are feeling generous, and you work with them frequently, then offering a few images or prints is probably worth doing. But I certainly would never give them copies of the whole shoot. Give out only good quality prints/images that show off your skills at their best. If you give out all of your crappy images, then people who view them will think you are a crappy photographer. If they are posting them on any websites, ask them to provide photo credit and a link back to you. Sep 15 05 12:33 am Link CMPhotoshoot wrote: No. The only model signs a release, which allows me to use their likeness for commercial purposes. Nobody off camera needs to sign a release. Sep 15 05 12:35 am Link Scott Aitken wrote: good points.. Thanx.. Sep 15 05 12:58 pm Link Give out your good stuff. Keep your bad stuff. Its been my experience that models OFTEN gravitate towards shots that are technically flawed. Why? Because they don't have the same criteria for judging a photo (as a photographer), and they will post your WORST shot (Overexposed skin, out of focus, blown highlights... ) -just so long as they think that they look cute in it. Don't give out your dogs... Sep 15 05 09:30 pm Link I don't use crew much, but when I do it's with the understanding that I'll show them my choice of images and let them have prints of whatever they like. But when I do use them I have to shoot to show face, hair, wardrobe, etc. specifically for them. Never give a bad photograph to anyone, even if they want it. -Don Sep 15 05 10:44 pm Link D. Brian Nelson wrote: Yeah this is a good one too.... Damage control... People just don't see things the same way - so if someone wants certain pics and they aren't up to par - then I wouldn't release em' either... Sep 16 05 11:39 am Link This is why I dig CIP: Not only is his artwork (paintings, sketchings, and photos) unique, but he takes the time to post a question and follow up. CIP, you are a professional and a gentlemen. (now do as I say and get into comic art... or else.---there.) -=Jeff=- Sep 16 05 01:50 pm Link danm... youve dont better then me, and ive been shooting for 4 years, lol. Guess it pays to live somewhere populated Sep 16 05 02:30 pm Link digital alchemist wrote: Ha ha... checkitout: Video Games = propietary software = you aren't allowed to take your work home = your work never comes home with you = time to study and practice photography+doing your own artwork... Sep 16 05 05:17 pm Link |
