Posted by Ty Simone: 
Um Vance, I shoot like that all the time...
It is one of the reasons I would never pay a model for my artwork.

I shoot for the purpose of artwork, it usually take me anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes for all the shots, depending on how many ideas I have come up with before the shoot.

I may do 3-4 extra poses just because I might think of something later, but in general, I have never gone over an hour for my artwork stuff.

when a model says x amount an hour, 3 hour minimum, I am think it is 6x the rate I should be paying! :-)

Posted by Austin Models & Talent Agency: 
Er... so you mean you will be TESTING.

That doesn't sound like any testing I know. It sounds like spec.  When "real" "photographers" tell me they want to test, I don't expect to sign a release. I do expect that from amatuers trying to sound impressive by calling a TFp "test."

Posted by theda: 

Posted by Austin Models & Talent Agency: 
Er... so you mean you will be TESTING.

That doesn't sound like any testing I know. It sounds like spec.  When "real" "photographers" tell me they want to test, I don't expect to sign a release. I do expect that from amatuers trying to sound impressive by calling a TFp "test."

I've been testing models for a client the past two weeks for potential use in a catalog in Grand Caymen.  We narrowed it down to about a dozen potentials from nearly 400 submissions.  Two will be selected.  Of course they don't sign a release - models signing full releases in TFP are not doing the brightest thing in the world either, IMHO.  What can I say, I'm an amateur trying to sound impressive, LOL.

Posted by theda: 
But you're not planning to publish those test images. I think Vance means that he is going to try to sell those images, so they're the finished product.

Let me say this...

Test, TFP..blah blah blah...
I shoot for one reason and one reason only..TO BE PUBLISHED..TO SELL...To Market...

My idea of a "test" are those shots I do to test my lights..

Every one will sign a release, in which it states, I maintain the rights to the photos. All, of the photos I take from now on will be fo submission purposes. PERIOD.. I am not simply shooting for fun anymore..

There are plenty of models that want to shoot with a solid production company. Knowing they will get great shots and potential pay. That is a true and fair trade off. My pictures will not simply sit on a hard drive or on an internet site.

Should I decide to produce an in house project..such as a calendar or promotion, then and only then will I pay models.

Outside of that, we are a photgraphy studio with pretty damn good rates.

The whole TFP thing no longer servess a purpose in my new business plan.

I shoot for final product and then market that product.

Like I said befoe..I now see it as Time For Publishing.

One last note.. testing to me is this....
I have a project I am going to shoot.. I have models come in for a test shoot.. this means I wam checking them out.. looking for good energy, looks, poise...

I am "testing" the talent to see if they fit what I am looking for... A face to face as it were..


Ok..

Have a great day...

Thaks for the feedback..I see this will always be a great topic for discussion.


vance

Posted by EricMuss-Barnes: 
Terrible idea. If all the "internet photographers" start to shoot like "commercial photographers," the competition will become overwhelming!

And what will happen to all the poor internet models who rely on photographers to "pay expenses" to fly them to shoots?

No. No. Don't start testing like a real photographer. You'll mess up the whole system. Just pay models out of your own pocket and give everything away for free. Why break with the traditions that are 7 years old by changing your shooting habits to a tradition that is 60 years old?

Yeah. Stay new. Fresh. Innovative. Cutting-edge.

I have a list of girls who would love for you to pay their airfare.

ROFLMAO!!!!  :-)  :-)

  JP

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
Your mission statement sounds okay to me, but you might want to word it a little more...diplomatically.  I know that when a model I'm interested in tries to come on strong with what they will and what they won't do it just turns me off...so I would think that models would feel the same way.  I do know of a few photographers who have some hard core profiles [no names please] but they're already pretty well established in their fields.

I don't disagree with a word you said...just be careful how you say it.

Careful how I say what..please elaborate....I dont see any statements I made to be less than honest and tactful.

Vance

Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *: 
I started doing everything you said during the summer of last year.  Only 4 months and it started getting really expensive.  lol spent too much and wasn't making enough.  Stopped trying so hard on getting published and worked more on promoting myself.

I'm not quite sure where you were spending your money..but here is my appraoch..

If I am not paying models to come in and shoot, I can use that money for promoting. In the mean time, I shoot for final product. these images are submitted for possible publication. Now on the flip side of that, I also use the images for promotion.

So it is a win win situation for all. The model and myself.

Let's face it, this business is saturated. Anybody can show up for a shoot. I've paid models for shoots that I would'nd hire them for. I was just ignorant to the game.

We do, shoot things for in house projects to be sold. I pay models for those shoots so I own them out right from the start.

As far as submissions go, I like to use new talent..unpaid..knowing they are getting exsposure from a reputible company.

Again, we are more than a photography studio, we are a Video and Film production company...so my avenues of approach are a tad broader then the typical photography studio.

vance