Photographer
James Jackson Fashion
Posts: 11132
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
FemmeArt wrote:
**yawn** I agree...
Photographer
Eros Artist Photography
Posts: 1562
Solomons, Maryland, US
I've not ever been approached directly by someone claiming to be a minor, but I have been contacted by individuals that wanted to be photographed nude or topless for a spouse/boyfriend/fiance. Out of all the inquiries I've gotten over the years, very few wanted to know if I'd be agreeable to photograph their daughter/cousin/sister nude who they openly identified as being anywhere between 13 and 16 years old. The last time was about three years ago.
The contacts were always via email and the messages varied little in their content - so little in fact, that all seemed to have been cut and pasted from the same script. They did come from different email addresses and always identified themselves as an early 30's female who lived in a nearby town.
I always terminated the conversations whenever minors were mentioned, and ended things by telling them they were inquiring about an illegal activity and I would be compelled to turn over the correspondence to law enforcement authorities.
I'm fairly certain these were undercover operations. All this happened over a two or three month time frame. They stopped as quickly as they started.
Photographer
Daniel Leon
Posts: 1389
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Frog516 wrote:
You know what I find interesting is that you can find the human body cute/intersting from the ages of 0-4 years old, then you you have to have no opinion of it from 5-17, then from 18 years old on you can find it beautiful again.
It just seems odd to me. I agree 100%.
Ive seen galleries of well known photographers loaded with "artistic" B&W prints of children,some naked,some not,some are toddlers,etc.People love it and say its beautiful,
God forbid the kids turn 7 cuz now they become NO-NO photographic material till theyre 19.
No I do not shoot nudes,but the logic of this is stupid.
Someone mentioned the parents,I think if I had a daughter who wanted to pose nude,I woudnt be happy wether she was 16 or 19 or 21,so no difference there,
Photographer
Frisson Art
Posts: 525
Shreveport, Louisiana, US
Mark wrote:
Maybe they feel in thier prime and want to record it. It would be nice to have a good portrait or photo series to lok back on. But I imagine the just want it for some web site. If they get their parents permission and bring one, why not? Do that in England and the photographer AND parent would be arrested, charged and put on the sex offenders register. Not sure about the USA but I won't go there all the same.
Photographer
Lo Fi Art
Posts: 1311
Alice Town, Biminis, Bahamas
if you thought it was good idea (and safe/legal), you wouldn't be asking...
Photographer
John Horwitz
Posts: 2920
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
SeriouslyFunny wrote:
Yea, I've turned them down too. I'm at a loss as to where their parents are.
I ain't touchin that with my 10 foot pole!  dude you got a ten footer???
Photographer
Craig A McKenzie
Posts: 1767
Marine City, Michigan, US
I have 3 young girls growing up in tease times...
What will I do???
Photographer
SensualArt
Posts: 772
Aldershot, England, United Kingdom
Golden Light wrote:
The only way it is okay to shoot a 16 year old is if you have sex with them first. Or a threesome with them and their mother. AndrewThomasDesigns wrote:
that'd be totally fine here in MN, other than the picture taking part. Here in the UK it's fine as long as you're "in an enduring relationship with" the 16yo.
Actually, I had to look up the bit about her and her mother, and that's ok as long as the mother is unconscious and is unaware of what's going on.
Photographer
SensualArt
Posts: 772
Aldershot, England, United Kingdom
McKenzie Bros Photo wrote:
I have 3 young girls growing up in tease times...
What will I do??? ebay?
Photographer
Admiral Frog
Posts: 29088
Roswell, Georgia, US
Zori_K wrote:
ahhhh...not really Care to elaborate?
Photographer
Modelographer
Posts: 6139
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I cant speak for every teenager in the whole world...but I will say *some* of us actually appreciate the 'art' part of nude modeling/photography. If she asked for some raunchy spread photos...thats different. If she clearly understood what an "artistic nude" photo is and wanted that...I cant say I blame her, the human body in art is something I've found interesting since I was 10, before hormones started raging and I was worried about how I looked and yadda yadda. And I cant blame her for not wanting to wait either, EVERYONE who goes through their teens is faced with something they cant have or do untill they are older, and those years go soooo slowly when you really want something right then and there. and it never seems fair that a silly number like 18 is standing in your way of what you want. Frog516 wrote:
You know what I find interesting is that you can find the human body cute/intersting from the ages of 0-4 years old, then you you have to have no opinion of it from 5-17, then from 18 years old on you can find it beautiful again.
It just seems odd to me. Agreed
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Frog516 wrote:
You know what I find interesting is that you can find the human body cute/intersting from the ages of 0-4 years old, then you you have to have no opinion of it from 5-17, then from 18 years old on you can find it beautiful again.
It just seems odd to me. Interesting.
Photographer
TA Craft Photography
Posts: 2883
Bristol, England, United Kingdom
FrissonPhotography wrote:
Do that in England and the photographer AND parent would be arrested, charged and put on the sex offenders register. Not sure about the USA but I won't go there all the same. I think your'e not right about that. In Engalnd there are many naturists who spend all their leisure time totally naked, they even take photographs of each other naked. [Though if one of them is really daring they may put a t shirt on]. The UK law is not about nudity, it is about sexuality. If you photograph a 14 year old fully dressed but in a sexual pose you WILL get prosecuted.
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Lazyi Photography wrote:
I see these threads, read through all the fear mongoring and hope to see you here Alan, because you spell it out much more then me.
But here is another source people. I am law enforcement, we do not, nor could we contact people to ask them to do something in hopes of busting them(on something that isn't illegal). Chris Hanson does it with Law enforcement, by letting the pre-verts contact him(or his people) in chat rooms, trust me lawyers go over what he does with fine tooth combs. Thank you for your comments. It is nice to have someone from law enforcement explain as well.
Photographer
Kurt Lindner
Posts: 214
Hermosa Beach, California, US
I can't help but retort to those who mentioned Paris, and media influencing people (girls). Sorry, but I call shenanigans, there is no such thing as something which forces anyone to do anything, in fact everything influences everyone from the point of consciousness till death. Its about personal responsibility, and some people just don't have it. Specifically, Paris Hilton is NOT influencing teenage girls to do what she does, if for no other reason than, bare with me, they're in totally different peer groups. Would we blame Buzz Aldren for influencing someone to become an astronaut at a young age? What about Nixon (*cough Bush) for influencing children to break the law because they illustrate that you can get away with it?
sorry. /OT rant.
Photographer
Unique Imaging
Posts: 91
Richmond, Virginia, US
Lazyi Photography wrote:
I see these threads, read through all the fear mongoring and hope to see you here Alan, because you spell it out much more then me.
But here is another source people. I am law enforcement, we do not, nor could we contact people to ask them to do something in hopes of busting them(on something that isn't illegal). Chris Hanson does it with Law enforcement, by letting the pre-verts contact him(or his people) in chat rooms, trust me lawyers go over what he does with fine tooth combs. The Dateline "To catch a predator" series will probably be offline for a while after that one guy in Texas that they busted for soliciting sex from a minor online, instead of being taken to jail pulled out a gun and shot himself. Now the show is saying that had no liability for him doing that.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/07/us/07 … yt&emc=rss
Photographer
Stephen Melvin
Posts: 16334
Kansas City, Missouri, US
DMP Studios wrote:
yes, i have turned them down as well, as most are undercover police officers,with just a small percentage actual young ladies that should indeed know better.Either way mention 16yrs all communication stops from there on in. Undercover police officer? Nude photos of minors are not illegal in most jurisdictions. Only photos of a sexual nature.
Photographer
Luminos
Posts: 6065
Columbia, Maryland, US
FemmeArt wrote:
**yawn** James Jackson wrote:
I agree... Third this.
Photographer
Carlton Primm
Posts: 304
Dallas, Texas, US
Sheik Imagery wrote:
I too have encountered this request. I feel like Chris Hansen is waiting on the other end to see if I bite. Gotta luv the Hansen.
Photographer
Morgan-Images
Posts: 101
Lafayette, Louisiana, US
Obsidian Blade wrote:
I hear you. That they wait until they're that old is an outrage! Now that.........is funny!
Photographer
Chris Macan
Posts: 12963
HAVERTOWN, Pennsylvania, US
Gene Geter wrote:
What's up with 16-year-old girls wanting to pose nude? What's the origin to this? What's up with all the 18, 25, 40, 50....... Girls wanting to pose nude?
It's just the way things are.
It's not like there is a switch that gets flipped when they turn 18 and all of a suddun they think it's a great idea to pose nude, have sex, join the army and get married.
And then another switch that gives them the desire to have a beer at 21.
Laws have little relevance to the desires of teens (or adults for that matter).
Photographer
Conceptually Black
Posts: 8320
Columbus, Ohio, US
Unique Imaging wrote:
The Dateline "To catch a predator" series will probably be offline for a while after that one guy in Texas that they busted for soliciting sex from a minor online, instead of being taken to jail pulled out a gun and shot himself. Now the show is saying that had no liability for him doing that.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/07/us/07 … yt&emc=rss Really? Damn...wish more of them would do that.
Photographer
JA Sanchez
Posts: 6830
Miami, Florida, US
Personally I think the primary reason photographers might not agree to this request is fear of legal ramifications, not some deep-seated moral conviction against underage nudity.
Photographer
Lumigraphics
Posts: 32780
Detroit, Michigan, US
Nick Zantop wrote:
yes - a list of cases where the police clearly entrapped the person and a conviction was made would be great. Getting arrested and having your name splashed across the front page as an accused sex offender is a pretty major punishment in itself, even if the charges are thrown out. You'd likely lose your job, friends, spouse, etc. and be explaining yourself for years after.
Model
Jessica Smile
Posts: 69
Sacramento, California, US
I just had someone ask me if I would pose in only a thong and no top, and I am only 16. It was a female photographer who asked me to do this, and she said that it was to make sure that my body looked okay, but she wanted to photograph me. I said well since I am only 16 isnt that illegal, and she said no, becuase she wouldnt use it for modeling only to make sure my body looked ok. I was shocked. Isnt it illegal for 16 year olds to pose partialy nude?
Photographer
dDavid
Posts: 616
Detroit, Michigan, US
FemmeArt wrote:
**yawn** Haven't I seen a few previous posts by you where all you contribute is **yawn**? I hope all 611 of your posts weren't this inspired.
D
Photographer
Stephen Melvin
Posts: 16334
Kansas City, Missouri, US
Jessica Breton wrote:
I just had someone ask me if I would pose in only a thong and no top, and I am only 16. It was a female photographer who asked me to do this, and she said that it was to make sure that my body looked okay, but she wanted to photograph me. I said well since I am only 16 isnt that illegal, and she said no, becuase she wouldnt use it for modeling only to make sure my body looked ok. I was shocked. Isnt it illegal for 16 year olds to pose partialy nude? Kate Moss has topless photos in her book which she had taken when she was 15. Not illegal at all. Maybe a bad idea, but not against any laws.
Photographer
Ralph Haseltine
Posts: 169
Chicago, Illinois, US
Sam Javor wrote:
my guess is that the origin has something to do with a undercover police officer... but I'd be guessing. Gee, ya think?...grins...
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Jessica Breton wrote:
Isnt it illegal for 16 year olds to pose partialy nude? No, it isn't illegal so long is there is no real or simulated sex nor any lascivious display of the genitals, but what you were asked to do just sounded weird. It is very rare for a photographer outside of an agency environment to ask a teen model to do implied or any kind of nudity. We do see implied in the NY fashion/editorial markets. Topless for teens is also common in Europe.
I am just not understanding of why she would want to take the shots. At 16 you need to be very, very leery of any individual photographer who is asking you to do any kind of nudity. It just isn't generally appropriate.
Photographer
DeathWish Photography
Posts: 88
New Bedford, Massachusetts, US
I've had a couple of 15 year olds and several 16 and 17 year olds contact me on MySpace to shoot them, and although only one of my photo shoots has had any nudity, I still won't shoot them at all. There's no way I'm even walking into that kind of hassle, no matter how harmless I say I am, how many other people come out to the shoots, how much fun it is, whatever, all it takes is one angry parent calling the cops and saying it was coerced or something. Forget it. 18 and up only, and it's not because I have anything against younger models, I just don't need the possible headache.
Photographer
La Seine by the Hudson
Posts: 8587
New York, New York, US
Gee, how many times we gotta go over this one again, eh?
Model
Shayn
Posts: 212
New York, New York, US
Golden Light wrote:
The only way it is okay to shoot a 16 year old is if you have sex with them first. Or a threesome with them and their mother. ewwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Photographer
Madcrow Photographics
Posts: 7805
Boston, Massachusetts, US
DeathWish Photography wrote:
I've had a couple of 15 year olds and several 16 and 17 year olds contact me on MySpace to shoot them, and although only one of my photo shoots has had any nudity, I still won't shoot them at all. There's no way I'm even walking into that kind of hassle, no matter how harmless I say I am, how many other people come out to the shoots, how much fun it is, whatever, all it takes is one angry parent calling the cops and saying it was coerced or something. Forget it. 18 and up only, and it's not because I have anything against younger models, I just don't need the possible headache. Oh well. That just means that those of us without such paranoia will get more shoots!
Model
Shayn
Posts: 212
New York, New York, US
Jessica Breton wrote:
I just had someone ask me if I would pose in only a thong and no top, and I am only 16. It was a female photographer who asked me to do this, and she said that it was to make sure that my body looked okay, but she wanted to photograph me. I said well since I am only 16 isnt that illegal, and she said no, becuase she wouldnt use it for modeling only to make sure my body looked ok. I was shocked. Isnt it illegal for 16 year olds to pose partialy nude? Red flag!!
Model
ava von hart
Posts: 752
San Diego, California, US
Frog516 wrote:
You know what I find interesting is that you can find the human body cute/intersting from the ages of 0-4 years old, then you you have to have no opinion of it from 5-17, then from 18 years old on you can find it beautiful again. Zori_K wrote:
ahhhh...not really yeah. because no matter what age [under 18] you admire the human body, even if there really is nothing more behind it than thinking it's beautiful, society will think of you as a pedophile/child molester. not saying that every person is, but i'm saying you have to be careful what you say about a child's body because it raises questions.
Photographer
Lucas Chapman
Posts: 6129
Scottsdale, Arizona, US
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
DMP Studios wrote:
yes, i have turned them down as well, as most are undercover police officers,with just a small percentage actual young ladies that should indeed know better.Either way mention 16yrs all communication stops from there on in. Sam Javor wrote:
my guess is that the origin has something to do with a undercover police officer... but I'd be guessing. I chuckle whenever I read that. Undercover officers will not contact you, pretend to be a teen and ask you to shoot them nude. Stop being so paranoid.
If they contact you, encourage you to shoot them and then pose in a fashion that is illegal, that is called entrapment. They cannot initiate the contact. To do so raises the issue of them encouraging you to do something you wouldn't have done on your own.
Instead, when they set up stings, they will go online, for example and wait for you to contact them. The will suggest nothing nor make any sexual remarks nor discuss doing nude shoots. When you suggest the shoot they will be evasive and let you affirm what you are wanting to do. They will get you to commit to doing something that would cross the line from legal to illegal and then get you to set up the characteristics of it so that you have definitely proposed something illegal. They will discuss props or something shoot specific so they can demonstrate that you are intending to go through with it, such as bringing bondage gear or condoms.
They will then arrange a time/place to shoot. When you arrive, they will search you to see if you brought the promised item. In the meantime, they have a written transcript of the entire proposition.
A case would never stand up if they went around contacting photographers and then asking them to shoot nude. You guys need to get a life. You spend so much time worrying about this kind of nonsense. You see police officers behind every door.
Turning down the shoot is the right thing because you don't need to be shooting any 16 year olds nude. But it isn't an undercover cop contacting you. Drink another beer and relax. It is all good. Maybe YOU need to brush up on more recent case histories. I'm pretty sure you'll find that most states have done away with so called "entrapment" laws, and allow authorities to act in whatever way they deem necessary to catch the perps.
Photographer
Studio78a
Posts: 113
Labelle, Florida, US
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
DMP Studios wrote:
yes, i have turned them down as well, as most are undercover police officers,with just a small percentage actual young ladies that should indeed know better.Either way mention 16yrs all communication stops from there on in. Sam Javor wrote:
my guess is that the origin has something to do with a undercover police officer... but I'd be guessing. I chuckle whenever I read that. Undercover officers will not contact you, pretend to be a teen and ask you to shoot them nude. Stop being so paranoid.
If they contact you, encourage you to shoot them and then pose in a fashion that is illegal, that is called entrapment. They cannot initiate the contact. To do so raises the issue of them encouraging you to do something you wouldn't have done on your own.
Instead, when they set up stings, they will go online, for example and wait for you to contact them. The will suggest nothing nor make any sexual remarks nor discuss doing nude shoots. When you suggest the shoot they will be evasive and let you affirm what you are wanting to do. They will get you to commit to doing something that would cross the line from legal to illegal and then get you to set up the characteristics of it so that you have definitely proposed something illegal. They will discuss props or something shoot specific so they can demonstrate that you are intending to go through with it, such as bringing bondage gear or condoms.
They will then arrange a time/place to shoot. When you arrive, they will search you to see if you brought the promised item. In the meantime, they have a written transcript of the entire proposition.
A case would never stand up if they went around contacting photographers and then asking them to shoot nude. You guys need to get a life. You spend so much time worrying about this kind of nonsense. You see police officers behind every door.
Turning down the shoot is the right thing because you don't need to be shooting any 16 year olds nude. But it isn't an undercover cop contacting you. Drink another beer and relax. It is all good. Speaking from experience as a Police Officer. If you do the right thing every time you will not have to worry. Now on the other hand if you have done this type of thing before and they have received a complaint on it and donât have enough probable cause. They will afford you every opportunity to do it again so they can get enough for a search warrant and or arrest you.
Photographer
DeathWish Photography
Posts: 88
New Bedford, Massachusetts, US
Madcrow Studios wrote:
Oh well. That just means that those of us without such paranoia will get more shoots! It's not really paranoia per se, it's just avoiding the possibility, just in case. I really could care less if someone shoots underage girls, as long as it's not exploitation. It's just not my thing. If I were making money shooting, I would be far less likely to turn down work, and most likely be up on all legalities involved so as not to step into the wrong arena, but I do this for fun, and it's mostly with friends and models who have seen my work and want to shoot with me, so no loss telling some strange kid I can't shoot her for a year or 2.
Photographer
Art Photography Ottawa
Posts: 2648
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Madcrow Studios wrote:
Oh well. That just means that those of us without such paranoia will get more shoots! It's not paranoia, it's risk management.
To me, there is no upside to shooting a 16-year old vs. shooting a 18+ year old.
And lots of potential for B.S.
There are lots of great models over the age of 18 (more than I have time for, actually) that are ready and available to shoot. So, why would I bother?
Photographer
La Seine by the Hudson
Posts: 8587
New York, New York, US
Jessica Breton wrote:
I just had someone ask me if I would pose in only a thong and no top, and I am only 16. It was a female photographer who asked me to do this, and she said that it was to make sure that my body looked okay, but she wanted to photograph me. I said well since I am only 16 isnt that illegal, and she said no, becuase she wouldnt use it for modeling only to make sure my body looked ok. I was shocked. Isnt it illegal for 16 year olds to pose partialy nude? There's a photographer on your friends list that frankly sets off all sorts of "predator" red flags in my mind. I really hate sounding like a white knight, but you really might wanna consider being careful on a site like this, or else coming back in a couple of years after you've had some experience and can spot these people.
(This photographer calls themselves female, and I have this sneaking suspicion that they're not exactly on the up-and-up.)
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